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No Spoilers[No Spoilers] TIL: Bethseda, although interested, turned HBO down for a RPG GoT videogame in 2011 because of the upcoming Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. (vg247.com)

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[–]Donquixotte -2ポイント-1ポイント  (10子コメント)

Can't I? I have never played a Bethesda game were the story was anywhere close to what I would consider "great writing"

And it's gotten much worse over recent years. Fallout 4 has the single worst conceivable dialogue system ever, tries to marry an uninspired linear plot with a sandbox and stops making sense around the time you get a real picture about what the Institute is doing.

Skyrim? Skyrim doesn't have characters. Almost no one memorable, certainly no one who goes through a real arc or expresses emotion, with the possible exception of the Dark Brotherhood questline. Dialogue is barebones, and very very few quests are more complex than "go here, kill the thing / get the thing".

Don't get me wrong, they're doing something right, but that something is not writing.

[–]ccpolarbear 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

Plenty of memorable characters in Skyrim. Again, you're just saying shit with nothing to back it up. The thieves guild quest line was pretty memorable for me, many other characters, such as Jarl Balgruff are very memorable and well-written. You're just doing what most of reddit has been doing recently, and shitting all over Bethesda's past works just because you don't like Fallout 4.

[–]Sigourn -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

The only memorable character I can think of is Astrid, really.

  • The way she takes you under her wing.
  • How she is impressed at you for being the Listener.
  • How she backstabs you in what is possibly the most unexpected backstab I've ever experienced in a videogame, which says a lot.
  • How she dies a horrible death.

Other than that, I can't think of a single memorable character from Fallout 3 or Skyrim. Remembering their names and a few of their lines don't really make them memorable, to be frank, when I thought they were pretty boring characters, and a lot of those characters I remember solely because of how annoying they are (hi Three Dawg). One would expect the Graybeards to be epic memorable characters... but no, they were just the usual "with great power comes great responsibility" cutout elder masters.

Even Caius Cosades, in all his mute inanimate glory, was a far more memorable character to me than Skyrim's Graybeards. And he achieved that without leaving the only in-game cell you can see him in. He is the only NPC that treats you with respect, he teaches you like you would expect from a master, and eventually, you have to forcefully leave the nest, giving you some equipment that, for the sole reason of being his, brings back nostalgia whenever you put it on. I remember how sad I felt when I first went into his house, and didn't find him anymore.

New Vegas, on the other hand when compared to Fallout 3 and Skyrim:

  • Yes Man
  • Caesar
  • Vulpes Inculta
  • Mr. House
  • Benny
  • Cachino
  • Every single companion
  • Joshua Graham
  • Ulysses

Those were pretty memorable to me, for all the good reasons, mostly because of the writing that gave them depth and felt like living persons, as well as the quests associated with them.

Every character ever made has an archetype associated with him or her. It's the writers duty to evolve that archetype and make that character really stand out from others. Skyrim never pulled that off, ever, with the exception of Astrid: the cold killer who actually had feelings and only in her death she realizes the error in her ways, after having lost literally everything.

[–]ccpolarbear 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Okay I'm done arguing with you now because it's clear that you will just rail against Bethesda no matter what. Yes, all those characters you listed are great, but there are countless examples of characters in many Bethesda games that are equally great and memorable. Have fun with your Obsidian circlejerk though.

[–]Sigourn -2ポイント-1ポイント  (6子コメント)

I wasn't Donquixotte, though. And no, I don't rail against Bethesda no matter what. The problem is you think Bethesda is amazing, and I don't, yet somehow, it is me who is at fault for "railing against Bethesda no matter what".

I'm waiting for the countless examples of memorable Fallout 3 and Skyrim characters.

[–]ccpolarbear 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Sorry, didn't notice the different username.

And no, I'm not going to type out all the memorable characters, there's just too many. But a few examples:

-Sara Lyons

-Your dad

-Three dog

-Mister Burke

-Mercer Fey (pretty much the whole thieves guild, really)

-The emperor (very brief encounter but still very well-written and memorable)

And so so many others

[–]Sigourn 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

No wonder, out of all you mentioned, the only one that was memorable to me was the Emperor, and only because of his position and nothing else.

Everyone else is plain forgettable to me, most of all, Mister Burke, who I killed as soon as he put a bullet on Megaton's sheriff (not to mention Burke hardly has a role in the game other than "please kill everyone in this city for my employer"). Sara Lyons, meh, I already explained Three Dog, the Thieves Guild questline is so ridiculous that is pathetic. You would expect a 2011 game to do thievery better than the Thief series, but Skyrim's thieving is not only worse, but there's barely any of it in the questline itself. And James... probably the worst plot character of any Bethesda game I've played.

[–]ccpolarbear 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

You're still just shitting on Bethesda with nothing to back it up. I gave some excellent examples, and there are still many others that I didn't mention.

[–]Sigourn 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are you downvoting me?

You're still just shitting on Bethesda with nothing to back it up.

I can't remember a single thing about Sara Lyons other than you fight alongside her in the main quest. James is a terrible character, whose response against you blowing up Megaton is "I'm very disappointed". How could a character like that be anything but forgettable? If anything, the most memorable thing about James was when he was a dog, and only because that quest was cool.

On the other hand, a few of the ones I mentioned:

  • Yes Man: he is funny, but most importantly, so upbeat even when you tell him you have done terrible things. Especially when he tries to turn your words into something more positive. And unlike Moira Brown, he isn't mentally challenged.
  • Caesar: a character you think is going to be a total devil, only to find out he is but an old man with good arguments to back up his Legion. Behind his seemingly civilized appearance, however, you get a ruthless dictator that threatens to have you torn apart by his legionnaires if you ever disobey one of his orders again.
  • Mr. House: more condescending to you than any other character I've seen in a videogame. Moreover, nothing gets past him, and he always has a plan for everything. Seeing his actual body is more memorable than any of those characters you mentioned, IMO. And he saved your life, and getting to know him clears up everything about Victor.
  • Benny: he goes from murderer in Goodsprings, to weakling in The Tops once you confront him, to cunning man once he tricks you into letting him escape, to accepting his fate at Caesar's camp so quickly that he feels like the most human character of the game. And you can actually save him, whereas in Skyrim you would have just been forced to kill him the first time you reencountered him.
  • Cachino: this is mostly because of his vocabulary and because he goes from mafia tough guy to wimp once you threaten to uncover his doings with the upper bosses. Plus he actually helps you out, and sets things right with the Gomorrah.

Oh, and I forgot about The King. Because really, aside from the Elvis impersonation thing, it's really amazing how he keeps such a tight grip on his boys and actually cares about Freeside.

No Fallout 3 or Skyrim character was memorable to me, other than the Emperor and Astrid. They are all just too badly written and boring.

Again, if you like Fallout 3 or Skyrim, so be it. I don't shit on Bethesda with nothing to back it up, as I have proven. You love Bethesda, fine, but stop acting like anyone who doesn't love them "shits on them with nothing to back it up".

[–]ccpolarbear 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes I agree that New Vegas's characters are very well-written, thank you for the very long explanation. But you're still just making stuff up when it comes to your arguments against Bethesda. Any character sounds bad when you just sum it up in one sentence like you did. So yeah, you are just shitting on Bethesda with nothing to back it up. And no, I'm not going to type out a paragraph about each character I mentioned because I already know it wouldn't change your mind ¯_(ツ)_/¯