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Leave the naive alone?! (self.MGTOW)

SasioOne が 投稿

There is this question on my mind, I can't seem to figure out. What should I do, when I encounter naive people. Regarding Economics, MGTOW, Politics,....

I recently stumbled across a passage, in the foreword to Atlas Shrugged by Leonard Peikoff: " This is still faith in their rationality, in the omnipotence of reason. The mistake? Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone."

In our culture, where science and reason is praised over the top, it is hard to grasp, that there are people, who actually reject reason (Bluepillers). How do you deal with them?

A) Minimize the conversations with naive people

B) Smile and wait for the conversation to switch to another topic

C) Agree to disagree. Lay out your position in as much detail as you can, while relying on reason to convince people.

D) Try to convince people with humor, mild hostility, some salesman tactics and all the wit you have.

E) Wait for them to screw up and hope for them to at least understand their mistakes in hindsight.

Cons:

A) isolates you

B) May be easy at to moment, but undermines friendship

C) does not work with people, who reject reason

D) drains you mentally

E) isolates you

What is your solution, when it comes to dealing with naive people (bluepillers, PUAs,...)? Or your best compromise?

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[–]MaestroLogical 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I typically go with an age check first.

If they are over 60 I don't bother. They are so ingrained in their mindset by then that, even if I am successful in convincing them, it would end up doing them more harm than good. Past a certain point beliefs become the foundation of who you are. Remove those and suicide likely follows.

For those between 30 and 60 I typically assess who they are first and how receptive they would be. If I can tell they'd simply put cotton in their ears and wait to for their chance at rebuttal I don't bother wasting my time.

Most of us came to this mindset, had our eyes opened, all on our own. Much like an adult telling a kid not to be in a rush to grow up... It's kind of something you have to do for yourself, a realization that nobody else can force on you, one that you'll only actually hear and understand when you're actually ready. So for those I just drop steady hints. Small little re-enforcement or corrections without forcing the issue. Just state it as fact and move on, no debate needed.

30 and under on the other hand... They need to be taught that the old world rules no longer apply. They don't have to suffer from the same malaise as the rest of us. Being raised with outdated notions and ideals makes it 100 times harder for us to shake than it will be for them, if we can educate them on the true nature of reality early enough.

[–]Ovalidem 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Combination of C and E. Tell them what could happen if they continue. They either listen/wise up and can avoid an uncomfortable situation or they encounter said situation and learn first-hand what you meant.
EDIT: I let go wanting to influence people, it takes a lot of effort and you may not even get what you fought for (sound familiar?). Just explain your situation and leave the ball of taking action in their own court.

[–]gundahir 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Generally, I go with A). I do not put any effort into maintaining relationships with people that are hopelessly naive, its a waste of time. People that have no foundation of reason and logic can not be reasoned with, logic and arguments, facts do not apply. 100% waste of time. This resulted in my social circle consisting of almost only educated, more or less rational thinkers. Now, if these kinds of topics come up, I go with C) or D) depending on the situation and person. Some people cant deal well with all these negative facts straight to the face, they might need it coated with some humor and stories.