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Majority Thinks Racial Discrimination Is a 'Serious Problem' (nbcnews.com)

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[–]drew418 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

Online polling.

[–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (121子コメント)

ITT: White people telling black people racism isn't a problem. Turn back now.

[–]trevize1138 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"B-but if I admit racism exists then I'd be legit called a racist just because I think all black people are criminals!"

[–]Dyfar [スコア非表示]  (14子コメント)

are black people allowed to tell white people black racism against whites isn't a problem?

wait i know the answer to that.

[–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

Lol. Those are not the same problems. At all. And the fact you think they are equal and opposite shows your ignorance/arrogance

[–]neweraccount123 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

You know the best way to get people to go out of their way to address problem experiences in communities you seek to help?

Tell them that their problem experiences are fucking nothing and they need to check their privilege and how great they have it and how their problem experiences with certain people are fucking racist and they are fucking racists.

You're doing gods work son.

[–]comamoanah [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Tell 'em Del

[–]the_schlonger [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

So what do you call it when black criminals prey primarily on white victims?

[–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Depends on motivation. But IMO, it's because white men are seen as easier to prey on...

Ninja edit: Oops...shouldn't have said that...

[–]the_schlonger [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Oh, so it's because white people are pussies? Yeah, that's totally not a racist comment. /s

[–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's most likely the path of least resistance. Even for criminals.

コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

      [–]nairebis [スコア非表示]  (18子コメント)

      ITT: Some black people telling white people how they "really" feel and accepting no responsibility for black culture's role in the problems that black people face.

      Thought experiment: Suppose that, tomorrow, black people took education as seriously as the Asian population and worked as hard to get the best grades and best test scores as Asian culture typically demands. What would happen?

      [–]huey_and_riley [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

      Thought experiment: Suppose that, tomorrow, black people took education as seriously as the Asian population and worked as hard to get the best grades and best test scores as Asian culture typically demands. What would happen?

      They would likely still be poor for at least a generation, lack of job opportunities wouldn't change for a long time, still would have poor schools in their communities, etc.

      It's easy to say "they should just work harder" if you ignore current and historical context behind why they don't do as well as others.

      [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

      I can fully and openly admit the black community has problems.

      Can you admit the white community MIGHT share in some of that blame?

      [–]nairebis [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

      Can you admit the white community MIGHT share in some of that blame?

      Put it this way. To have "blame" implies that there's something the white community ought to be doing differently. What, exactly, are "white people" as a class of people supposed to do differently? The vast majority of bigoted behavior from white people is in direct response from fear and/or contempt of black culture, which is based on behavior. Racism, by definition, is believing things purely based on race. But seriously, how much actual belief that "black people are inferior" is really left these days? That's really pretty rare in my experience. It's all about fears and contempt of black culture, the violence, the anti-education attitudes, even simple things like the notoriously bad tipping culture.

      When a black person is accused of "acting white", what does that mean? "Oh, yeah, of course white people like that guy, he acts white all the time!" So yeah, white people like black people who don't embrace all the shittiness of black culture. Doesn't that imply that white people don't intrinsically "hate black people" like the accusation goes, but they're just fine with black people who just live their lives, work hard and be good citizens?

      To get away from black/white relations, a good overseas example is Europe and Romani (gypsies). Europeans will tut-tut about American race relations, but ask the typical European what they think of Romani. They fucking hate them, and they'll make no bones about it. Is it bigoted? Maybe. But if you know Romani culture, it's not unjustified.

      [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

      The white community can understand and acknowledge that white America and black America are different. That they're bigotry is based on behaviors that stem from CENTURIES of mistreatment. Not that black people just want to be violent and don't care to learn. Our(black) schools are notoriously underfunded, understaffed, and underpaid.

      You're right. Alot of that 'dirty negro' talk is gone. But the effects are still there.

      Yes, that is a problem. But to honest, white kids get the same bullshit from their peers in similar ways. Even when the black community wasn't at the top of the crime rate and BEGGED for education, the white community looked down on us.

      Being black in america in so many places is much more complicated and nuanced than, go to school, get a job, and go to work. And there's lots of reasons for it. I'm on mobile so responding to your entire comment in full is a pain in the ass since I can't read and type.

      [–]the_schlonger [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

      Our(black) schools are notoriously underfunded, understaffed, and underpaid.

      Black students still perform worse than any other group even when in ethnically diverse schools that have specific programs in place to help black kids.

      [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      Must be because black people are dumb and the parents don't care about their kids.

      [–]nairebis [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

      behaviors that stem from CENTURIES of mistreatment

      No doubt. But that's been acknowledged 10,000 times. And now what?

      Even when the black community wasn't at the top of the crime rate and BEGGED for education, the white community looked down on us.

      Way back in the day, black people marched for equal opportunity and better schools. And what happened? That was the beginning of the civil rights movement, and it worked! Black people did get better access to education. People are very open and will listen to the idea of, "I want to work hard, just give me the opportunity to do so."

      But where are the marches of parents demanding better schools and education these days? Maybe they're out there, but I don't see them. THAT I'm sympathetic toward. Tell me, "I don't want my children to be uneducated idiots. I'll get my children to school and I'll make sure they do their homework. Just give me good schools and good teachers." Unfortunately, the experience of inner city school teachers is that it isn't typical at all that black parents are invested in education. And if black parents aren't going to care, then the local governments aren't going to care, whoever they're run by.

      Look, I don't want to sound like I have all the answers. But what I do know is that there's literally nothing white people can do to help black people until they start changing from within. Only the black community can change black culture, and I fully understand that it's hard to overcome the centuries of attitudes baked into the culture. I know black people typically think that white people don't care, but it's not true. The problem is that there's no place to put the caring. Just building better schools and hoping black people want them isn't enough.

      [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

      No. It hasn't been acknowledged. You're denying it right now when you speak of schools, parents, and communities as though there had been nothing standing in the way of progress since 1964.

      Who wouldn't want a good education for their children? Why wouldn't anyone want to live in a nice neighborhood (which is not to say "white")?

      I don't know the answer either. But I'm at least aware of the causes.

      [–]nairebis [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

      You're denying it right now when you speak of schools, parents, and communities as though there had been nothing standing in the way of progress since 1964.

      And you're now denying any responsibility for the self-inflicted lack of progress.

      Who wouldn't want a good education for their children?

      Lots of parents want good educations for their children in the same way they want ponies. Sure, they want it in theory, but how much do they actually work toward it? You're in real denial if you think there isn't a problem with black parents not treating education as an absolutely crucial component to their children's success.

      But I'm at least aware of the causes.

      I say this respectfully -- I don't think you really do. I'm not saying I know everything about the black experience, but by the same token, you don't see all the frustration on the other side with wanting black people to do their part, and to a large extent, they don't.

      Black schools are bad, but that actually ironically means it's much easier to get great grades because they're not challenging. Show me the straight A black students whose parents are lamenting the lack of college opportunities. Or hell, show me the straight A black students who end up bombing the SAT because they weren't prepared because of the bad schools. Show me the black kids busting their ass in school, living at the library like the Asian students do.

      You can't accuse me of not understanding when black people aren't typically doing anything to help themselves.

      [–]kaudavis [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      To a large extent, they don't.

      So for the sake of argument I will give you this point. But I think the more important question is why? Why don't all poor people across the world simply work harder and educate themselves. Why don't all middle class people work harder to become rich?

      The answer in my experience is that there are other factors that prevent them from doing so or make it easy to give up. You are looking at another person's situation and judging their actions based on your own set of experiences and abilities. Of course it is relatively easier for you and I to educate ourselves and raise our children to do the same. We don't have the same external stresses and we had GOOD EXAMPLES to follow and sometimes push us in the right direction.

      I'm sorry but this all comes down to empathy. If you really care it shouldn't be so hard to see why some might have trouble accomplishing the same things in life that you have. If you really understand the black experience as much as you say you do then you would consider the impact of generations of external stresses, often times self-imposed, but none the less a result of their past experience in this country.

      I am a black man who is a descendant of slaves, but by sheer luck my family spent generations away from the American mainland. I have friends who are children of African immigrants and our ability to take advantage of what America has to offer, in my opinion, is simply easier because we did not have to directly endure much of America’s past history with race.

      I too am frustrated, but not with just one side of the argument. I too sometimes wonder why people simply can’t just do better. But then I remember that I could probably say the same about myself. So why don’t we all deserve a little help from our fellow citizens.

      [–]Dicknucklezwithaz [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

      The assumption that poor parents or parents of color care less about their children is pernicious and factually incorrect. I have never met a parent who didn't want their child to succeed, but when you take into account higher suspension rates for black kids, less wealth in black communities, employment and housing discrimination, segregation that is ubiquitous today, criminal justice bias, the dearth of black fathers around because of said criminal justice bias, stereotype threat, and all the other institutional barriers created and maintained, not four hundred years ago, but in our generation, and the real problem starts to become clear. A lot of attention is being paid right now to police brutality because that's a really stark and universal impediment to black success. Almost all black people have been pulled over or mistreated for driving with their skin tone, and the consequences of police shootings are so horrific that it has become a fulcrum of class resentment, but that's not to say that educational reform and desegregation aren't also important to improving black lives. I don't want to sound like I'm chastising any white people in particular, I'm white, but systems that have been put in place recently (the war on drugs, redlining, private schools, welfare reform) have had tangible effects to pillage wealth and potential from black communities. I don't see how black communities, which only exist because of segregation we continue to this day, can possibly overcome their challenges until we take our boot off their neck.

      [–]ahrzal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      The Romani have been the urinal cake of Europe since for fucking ever, and here you are trying to pee on it from 5 feet away. They've been enslaved, slaughtered, sterilized, ostracized...you name it. It is unjustified. Europeans jump at any opportunity to throw the Romani under the bus.

      [–]rralar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      You just avoided the question. The question he/she asked was: if black community adopted education/family values Asian community exhibits, what would happen [in 1, 5, 10 years]?

      (You instead deflected question into another question that whether white community is responsible for black community's lack of education/family values or not.)

      [–]GraphiTon [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

      Ahh, the old Asians and Whites are the only approved races meme. Fuck off.

      [–]nairebis [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      Ahh, the old Asians and Whites are the only approved races meme. Fuck off.

      What does that even mean??

      [–]neweraccount123 [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

      What percentage of the overall issues in minority communities would you blame on racism?

      [–]Edensgate [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      But we have a black president AND 9/11 happened

      Obviously racism is solved and cops are infallible

      [–]throwtheshitatthem [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

      In the topic which is most current (police shootings) it isnt a problem.

      [–]UWantWhatUGet [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      You mean in the US? Is it a problem everywhere or just here or just in countries with white people, where can a black person go and live the good life?

      I'm thinking there is no better place on earth for a black person than the USA, yet all I hear is negatives. Where do all the rich blacks move once they get the money to leave this place?

      [–]MuslimOrange [スコア非表示]  (43子コメント)

      How do you know they are white?

      [–]naygor [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

      reddit's demographics aren't a secret. 18-24 suburban white dudes are by far the most represented. it's the reason why this place is so receptive to the alt-right and stormfront groups who recruit here.

      [–]MuslimOrange [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

      Thanks for providing stats and facts to back up your statement.

      [–]Megazor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      Actually reddit is very liberal and then latest polls prove that.

      [–]35skadoo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      Because very, very, few black people in this world are going around saying racism doesn't exist.

      コメントをもっと表示する (33 返事)

        [–]macinneb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        I just love how SEVERAL threads about "Public opinion says Hillary should be tried for crimes" get's THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of upvotes EACH which PROVES Hillary is a criminal.

        This thread gets 261 upvotes at 74% stating an opinion that's backed by mountains of facts and evidence and isn't really even contentious in academia.

        /r/politics ladies and gentlemen.

        コメントをもっと表示する (16 返事)

          [–]baitnswtich [スコア非表示]  (219子コメント)

          We're living in perception is reality times. No one cares about facts or statistics.

          • Despite making up just 13% of the population, blacks commit more than half of homicides in the United States. DOJ statistics show that between 1980 and 2008, blacks committed 52% of homicides, compared to 45% of homicides committed by whites.

          • More up to date FBI statistics tell a similar story. In 2013, black criminals carried out 38% of murders, compared to 31.1% for whites, again despite the fact that there are five times more white people in the U.S.

          • From 2011 to 2013, 38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black. This figure is three times higher than the 13% black population figure. When you account for the fact that black males aged 15-34, who account for around 3% of the population, are responsible for the vast majority of these crimes, the figures are even more staggering.

          • According to data from the Centers for Disease Control, between 1999 and 2011, 2,151 whites died as a result of being shot by police compared to 1,130 blacks.

          • Despite being outnumbered by whites five to one, blacks commit eight times more crimes against whites than vice-versa, according to FBI statistics from 2007. A black male is 40 times as likely to assault a white person as the reverse. These figures also show that interracial rape is almost exclusively black on white.

          [–]graveybrains [スコア非表示]  (73子コメント)

          Why does their percentage of the population suddenly cease being relevant on your fourth point.

          [–]philosofossil13 [スコア非表示]  (55子コメント)

          Because it comes out to being about 3x more likely to be shot as a black person when you factor the relative percentage of the population lol. Doesn't fit with the narrative

          [–]MuslimOrange [スコア非表示]  (42子コメント)

          Because they commit more crime. Roughly three time more.

          [–]maxxusflamus [スコア非表示]  (32子コメント)

          do those crimes require that they get shot 3x more often?

          [–]pugslayer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Considering an earlier point was that about 1/3rd of violent crimes are committed by African Americans, and since logically violent offenders are the most likely to become violent and be shot, it makes sense that 1/3 of the people shot would be black.

          Edit: don't get me wrong, the conclusion he wants you to draw isn't correct.

          However dismissing stuff like this as " just racists" or faultily trying to contradict them only serves to strengthen their arguments.

          Blacks in this country do face discrimination and there are a lot of factors that tie into that.

          [–]throwtheshitatthem [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Actually when crimes committed are put into the equation you are more likely to be shot by police if you are white and committing violent crime than you are if you are black doing the same.

          コメントをもっと表示する (30 返事)

            [–]fuckingrad [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

            They don't commit more crime they are arrested, charged and convicted of more crimes, big difference.

            [–]relee1865 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            FBI victimization reports beg to differ

            [–]MuslimOrange [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

            Hahahahahaha

            [–]xayma [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

            Marijuana usage (a federal crime) is roughly the same between white and black people (with whites being slightly ahead). A black person is more than three and a half times as likely to be arrested.

            So yeah... the arrest figures by themselves aren't that useful.

            [–]the_schlonger [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

            Blacks are more likely to use in public, more likely to drive while high, more likely to be hostile or attempt to run when confronted by the police rather than being respectful and apologetic.

            Different behavior nets different results.

            [–]xayma [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            So because white people are more likely to be 'respectful' they get a pass on breaking the law?

            Even when found with drugs white people are three times less likely to be arrested.

            [–]the_schlonger [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            I didn't say it was fair, I just said it works. When you're nice to a cop and treat them like a human being they're far more likely to let you go with a warning regardless of your skin color.

            [–]Clockwork757 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            Violent Crime doesn't correlate with police shootings.

            http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015

            [–]Not_very_liberal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            But if you factor it into the number of crimes committed by blacks it leads to them being less likely to be shot.

            コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)

              [–]Stochastic__Process [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

              Okay, I'm not making an political argument here. I'm going to be identifying an issue in reasoning. My argument is that it is misleading to look at the point 4 with relation to percentage of the population. Rather, you should be examining point 4 with relation to encounters with police. If you concede the first 3 points, then you are agreeing that black individuals are more likely to encounter police. So, if police were shooting uniformly, regardless of race, they'd be killed less in number. But whites are killed greater in number. This is a contradiction that needs examination.

              TL:DR: Examining point 4 should be done with relation to the set of all encounters with police. First 3 points suggest black individuals encounter more frequently. So they should be shot more often if police were shooting without regard to race. But they're actually shot less often.

              One could even use this to argue a bias against shooting black individuals on the part of the police. However, you don't have enough data to conclude that and can merely say that the data needs more examination with the factors I listed above.

              [–]hallospacegirl [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Because this is /r/politics and logic doesn't apply here. Which is why Clinton is still going to be indicted and Bernie will be president. Which is why this sub consistently upvotes HA Goodman articles to the FP.

              Fuck outta here.

              EDIT: just realized this is a stormfront copypasta holy fuck this sub has gone to shit

              [–]TruePoverty [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

              Because it is a stormfront copy/paste that has zero interest in honest, empirical analysis of social issues.

              [–]shiftshapercat [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

              So any logical facts based off of statistics and analysis that disagrees with your position is suddenly far right radical stormfront tea party stuff?

              You can't ignore this information just as much as any logical person cannot ignore the fact that socio economic issues does have a part to play in all this. But even so, you can't seriously exempt black communities and leaders from the statistics if they themselves are not leading by example.

              Often times people that focus on the social issues act like breaking the law and shouldn't be punishable if you are poor and non white/ non asian.

              [–]spru2 [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

              So any logical facts based off of statistics and analysis that disagrees with your position is suddenly far right radical stormfront tea party stuff?

              No. It's just that this is literally a copypasta put together by white supremacists on stormfront with the intent of using it as propaganda.

              [–]asdf2100asd [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

              is it correct though...?

              what you are doing is a big problem. you don't care if it's correct or not.

              [–]xrabidx [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

              It doesn't matter who said it. The fact remains that the numbers and statistics are correct, are you gonna call me a nazi/supremacist too?

              [–]shiftshapercat [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

              so by your logic. One can claim that systemic racism against African Americans in the Education and Judicial system is propaganda designed to discredit systems that are fair towards the majority of people even though there are facts and statistics that say otherwise?

              [–]spru2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Sure. You could claim that. If you have actual evidence maybe you'd have a valid claim.

              [–]mrtomjones [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Yah I see this same set of stats each time this comes up

              [–]monkeymonkey35 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              We're living in perception is reality times. No one cares about facts or statistics.

              ^ Is just a cover for furthering their own political belief.

              If they truly cared about "facts or statistics" they never would have used raw numbers given one group is 72% of the population, and the other group is 13%.

              [–]Canadian_Weatherman [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

              No doubt that violent crime rates among blacks are much higher than for whites (maybe the fact that blacks have had no opportunity to accumulate wealth until 50 years ago has something to do with that), but a large volume of arrests are due to drug offenses, and there is a very clear racial bias in drug arrests.

              And I don't care what crime rates are between races, it doesn't justify racial profiling.

              [–]The_Norse_Gods [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

              Alright then lets fix the drug problem. The issue should then solve itself.

              [–]HyperBoreanSaxo [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

              pro tip, it won't

              [–]BoringSupreez [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              I wonder what we'll start blaming as drug laws become looser in the years to come?

              [–]buckingbronco1 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

              The statistics used are for violent crime (rape, robbery, murder). Nobody's harping on statistics for drug related offenses.

              [–]Canadian_Weatherman [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              No, but we're arguing about if racial discrimination is a thing. Drug law enforcement is a pretty clear example of systemic discrimination in America.

              [–]spru2 [スコア非表示]  (76子コメント)

              This is a stormfront copypasta btw. As in, it's being sent around the internet by stormfront. Yes yes, you shitstains can whine about "facts aren't racist" but it's very clear that this copypasta is implying something unsavory, and it's blatant to anyone with any knowledge of history that these are the result of 200 years of racial opression. And yes, you shitstains will also whine about model minorities going through the same thing. And again, anyone with historical knowledge knows that not only did other minorities NOT undergo oppression and discrimination on the level of blacks, other minorities are also second or third generation immigrants whose family only moved her in the 40s or 60s or maybe the late 1800s.

              [–]jelgre165 [スコア非表示]  (17子コメント)

              I liked the part where you attacked his comment without actually addressing any of the statistics released or the conclusion he was trying to make.

              [–]miserable_failure [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Are you genuinely that stupid?

              You think the amount of melanin in your skin leads to crime?

              コメントをもっと表示する (16 返事)

                [–]bilbowasawesome [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                you're wrong. facts ARE racist. it's why people hate them sometimes.

                [–]buckingbronco1 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                That's a long way to say that you're poo-pooing the argument and not willing to discuss facts. I don't support Stormfront or any of that bullshit, but I've looked at the data myself on the FBI's website. It's like you're willing to keep your head in the sand to avoid the possibility that some body might (unfoundedly) accuse you of being a racist.

                [–]35skadoo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/18/ferguson-black-arrest-rates/19043207/

                Shouting "statistics!" the way you are is doing multiple things: it's ignoring context, it's ignoring history, it's ignoring government policies that lead to these problems, and it's ignoring the fact that our own government acknowledges the existence of widespread racial discrimination in American society, or at the very least inequality.

                "But da blacks are criminals!" is a meaningless point to make in this context because it ignores the sociological, economic, and political forces crushing down on that community, and it ignores the motivations and actions of police and politicians when dealing with them.

                This country has never been good to people of color. It is fucking delusional to pretend it is kind and loving today, or that 400 years of inequality just randomly went away the moment we let blacks and whites shit in the same toilet.

                コメントをもっと表示する (25 返事)

                  [–]Trauerkraus [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                  Hi /pol/

                  [–]beef_boloney [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

                  We're living in cherry pick data to talk about the thing you want to talk about instead of the thing you don't times. No one cares about facts or statistics.

                  • Despite making up just 49.1% of the population men commit nearly all of homicides in the United States. DOJ statistics show that between 1980 and 2008, men commited 90.5% of homicides, compared to 9.5% by women in the U.S.

                  • More up to date FBI statistics tell a similar story. In 2013, men carried out 89.3%, compared to 10.7% for women, again despite the fact that there just as many women in the U.S.

                  I'm growing tired of copying your formatting so I'm just gonna dump some more cherry-picked data to make men look bad, and bold certain parts to really stick out the stuff I want people to see.

                  [–]relee1865 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                  The difference, of course, is that no reasonable male or young person will scream foul and react hysterically if you point out that their specific demographic is more likely to be criminally violent than their counterparts.

                  [–]beef_boloney [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                  You're moving the goal posts. Pointing something out is not the same as discriminating.

                  If I refused a job to a man because there are women working in the office and I'm concerned he'd rape them, considering the statistic "In 2011 Males constituted 98.0% of those arrested for forcible rape" your response would be "fair play, facts are facts" and you'd just move along?

                  If police made it official policy to stop and frisk men on the street because they're almost 10x as likely to rob somebody as a woman is, you wouldn't "scream foul" or "react hysterically"?

                  [–]relee1865 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  your response would be "fair play, facts are facts" and you'd just move along?

                  Yes, since I already believe the government doesn't have a right to control the hiring practices of private businesses.

                  you wouldn't "scream foul" or "react hysterically"?

                  No, I think police have every right to profile within constitutional bounds, and sex is certainly a part of that.

                  [–]throwtheshitatthem [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                  You just supported the original statistics. Stats dont lie. Men are way more violent than women.....

                  [–]beef_boloney [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  I didn't mean to refute them, I meant to point out that you can use stats to tell the story you want to tell, and mine is that men are dangerous and can't be trusted

                  [–]BumFuckEgypt [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  Hispanics are calculated into the white numbers

                  [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

                  Institutional racism can't be captured by statistics. It is intangible. Systemic/institutionalized racism is the context for those stats.

                  [–]one8sevenn [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

                  So, it is a ghost.

                  [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

                  Yes. Racism never existed. I made it up. Just now.

                  Boo

                  [–]one8sevenn [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                  There are people in the world that are racist. No one is denying that. The issue is just saying it is institutionalized racism and then saying stats can't prove or disprove the existence of it.

                  You are basically equating institutionalized racism to a God.

                  You can't prove that a God exists or doesn't, but you can certainly feel a certain way about the subject. Even if evidence points to the way of it not existing, you have to hold tight to your beliefs and not listen to logic and reason - or even have a discussion that it doesn't exist.

                  This concept is really no different that any close minded subject. People can show you statistics and evidence that can open up a discussion to the how and why, but people will not seek more information and hide back into the reliable ghost theory.

                  [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                  Ya. I get that is how it looks. But its not. I posted elsewhere in this thread about policies that have adversely affected black americans for generations.

                  I'm on mobile. Institutional racism is very provable if you looks at the last 100 years on the whole and not crime stats for the last 10 years.

                  [–]one8sevenn [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                  Last 100 years? 1916-2016

                  Anything before 1994 was a period where I could agree that racism was rampant.

                  Since 1994, things have changed up to the point in 2008 where a black president was elected to the white house.

                  If racism was institutionalized that would never had happened.

                  The last ten years would be a good representation of how things are now.

                  Looking back 100 years to where we are now, significant progress has been made.

                  Right now, if you want to be a doctor regardless of the color of your skin. You can.

                  [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                  So you're saying within 20 years, america "beat"racism... that's incredible. 2 years before 1994, 55 people died and 2000 were injured in the LA riots. But 2 years after that, we're good?

                  Racism was institutionalized well before 1994...1984...'74...and obviously before 64. Ate you implying that just 30 years after the civil rights movement, where blacks were barely considered humans, America overcame its racism? Are you dense? The people that were alive in 94 were the ones perpetuating racism in 64. And who were they raised by....?...

                  I don't deny progress. But institutional racism is much deeper than the president.

                  [–]one8sevenn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  Not saying the progress isn't being made.

                  I just don't see how institutional racism is causing all of it.

                  There has to be a certain level of accountability in this movement.

                  I have no problem with saying that we need to make progress, but unless we can find issues now that are adversely effecting people we might as well go out and find bigfoot.

                  What is institution is racist?

                  What law is racist?

                  [–]odoroustobacco [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

                  Literally a Stormfront copypasta

                  [–]Wilileaks [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

                  Does that make it less true tho? Crime among blacks is really fucking high, one can argue it's because of sistematic poverty, sure, but it does not make crime less real.

                  [–]35skadoo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  Does it make it less true

                  Yes. Because it's removed from all context and the implication it is trying to create is "black people deserve to get shot". It's a giant excuse for state violence and inequality. Every single problem you can point to in the black community can be traced back to the disastrous and discriminatory policies of our government and police. Notice that bullshit copypasta leave that fact out.

                  Numbers don't say much if you don't know their history. As a result that bullshit up above says virtually nothing.

                  [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

                  The crime is real, but the argument implies that blacks are uniquely more prone to violence than other groups.

                  [–]Wilileaks [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

                  No, the facts imply that they commit more crimes than other groups, and again, that's a fact.

                  No, they don't do it just because they are black, they do it because there is a lot of poverty and that leads to crime. Also because of their own culture, hear your average rap song and what do the lyrics say? "bitches bitches money money drugs drugs crime crime ima gansta im cool breaking the law". What the fuck do they expect it to happen? Harvard law graduates? Charles Barkley once said a good line, he said something like "in school, if you are black and don't act like a thug the rest of the blacks will chastise you for acting like a white boy".

                  [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                  Ok so, which do you think has a bigger effect on crime generational poverty or school bullying?

                  Generational poverty OR...rap music?

                  [–]macinneb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  Stats real, conclusions by fucking god are wrong. You could load up a bunch of statistics that would make white people look far worse if you made the effort, but since it'd all just be stats without context and put in order to push an ideological narrative it might as well be an abstract painting in terms of its value.

                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                    [–]ROB_CASH [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

                    The fact that comments explicitly stating that black people are prone to criminality will get upvoted is exact proof that racial discrimination is still a problem...

                    [–]HyperBoreanSaxo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    So you believe that whites and blacks commit crimes at the same rate?

                    [–]TheseColorsDoNotRun [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                    Are you insinuating that the black community doesn't have unique problems specific to it? More to the point, are the facts themselves racist?

                    [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    No, the stats aren't racist. I believe he was saying (and feel free to correct me), that because you are using stats to justify that blacks are more prone to violence without asking/seeing/understanding why. Says you believe that blacks are uniquely more prone to violence as a people.

                    No doubt the black community has plenty of problems to go around (for LOTS of historical reasons) And a big one is the justice system.

                    コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                      [–]tyrotio [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                      Besides the obvious cherry picking a variety of statistics from multiple different reports, there's blatant intellectual dishonesty in your choices. For example, you focus on rates for murder, but then use total numbers when referring to the amount of people shot and killed by police. So despite there being "5 times more white people", black people are killed at a much higher rate by police than white people, over 2 to 1.

                      Furthermore, these statistics are incomplete and the DOJ admits to 30% of offenders being "unknown". So they use estimates to accommodate that information, however, their estimates ignore institutionalized racism and assume that similar patterns persist, though there is nothing proving that's the case. Same with arrest and conviction statistics, they ignore racial profiling by police.

                      No one should be confused about black on black violence being high, but trying to use these statistics to make racial comparisons ignores inherent bias in the system. For example, the LA times did a story about how thousands of violent crimes were under reported or changed by the LAPD. This has happened in other cities, like Milwaukee, too. Other studies have found that only 20% of rape is reported and only 25% of physical assaults are reported, and that a person will experience domestic violence, on average, 35 times before calling the police. So these statistics ignore the vast amount of violent crimes that go unreported by police and individuals which is a huge asterisk and means they are not representative of all violent crime.

                      http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/crimes-underreported-by-police-include-robbery-rape-e567cu0-167448105.html

                      [–]throwtheshitatthem [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                      They are killed by police at much higher rates because they commit more crime and are more likely to encounter police. These are facts not opinions that cannot be nailed down

                      [–]tyrotio [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      These are facts not opinions that cannot be nailed down

                      No, that's deductive reasoning, which doesn't make it a fact. I can just as easily say that the reason black people are killed at a higher rate proportional to their population is because of racist attitudes against black people.

                      There isn't a study that can accurately speak to how much crime is committed. I just addressed this in my previous post, and many times have you or someone you know been arrested for digital piracy? Yeah, no reliable to study can say how much crime is actually committed. Instead, you have studies that examine arrests and convictions, and maybe reported crimes.

                      [–]cam94509 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      Go back to stormfront.

                      [–]Architectcarbs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      Yes but the majority of black people incarcerated are in jail die drug charges, usually weed

                      [–]Schmingleberry [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      What conclusion is to be drawn from these statistics?

                      [–]Tha_Funky_Homosapien [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      So black people are just inherently more violent?...

                      [–]miserable_failure [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      Weird, just because of my skin color I'm going to murder someone!

                      What a stupid comment. Statistics are meaningless if you don't understand what creates them. Skin color has 0% to do with the ability or need to commit a crime.

                      Did you know it's 100% more likely that I want to commit a crime when I see someone like you?

                      [–]MuslimOrange [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      Came here for this. Why are we tolerating this type of behavior and not holding the black community accountable?

                      [–]TheBlackSands [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                      Let me give you a logical response to your logical conclusion from unfallible statistics.

                      You have two room. One room has a tac on the floor. The other room has 100 tacs. You are barefoot in your room with 100 tacs and the other room is occupied by a man in steel toed boots.

                      The objective is to get through the room without stepping on tacs and anyone that is visibly bleeding will be punished and is now a violator.

                      So, we run the test. Who is 99x more likely to step on a tac? Who can step on a tac and not bleed as required to be punished. Who is in no real danger of being punished?

                      This is our criminal justice system. Where a black man can be pulled over 50x in 5 years but no white person finds that suspicious. Let's not forget how many white people get warnings for breaking the laws (the boots theory) and that cops don't search for crime (the tacs theory.)

                      All the tacs are in one room. Crime means a tac has caught someone. It does not mean that actual crimes were done.

                      If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to see it, will the illegal logger get punished? No.

                      [–]Vindicated_Rage [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      Where a black man can be pulled over 50x in 5 years but no white person finds that suspicious.

                      Over half of the violations were for driving on a revoked license (misdemeanor) and over 75% were for driving on a revoked license + driving without insurance you know which is illegal. Thank you officers for keeping our roads safe from assholes who are driving without a license and without insurance. This asshole had over 15 misdemeanors for driving on a revoked license. Fuck you for inciting race. Are you saying black people shouldn't be punished for crimes to even out statistics?

                      コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

                        [–]vonnegutcheck 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        These comments are gonna be great.

                        [–]Kinglink [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        Wow, after a shooting that the news has been hollering about being racism, people think racism is a problem?

                        I wonder if the news hollered about police brutality, we would get a poll that thinks there is a problem with the police in the US?

                        Or if the news hollered about the sky being purple, the world would considered environmentalism finally necessary.

                        [–]catchariiiiiiiiiiide [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        duh?

                        [–]paranoiajack [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        Wow this thread.

                        [–]lergerhs -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        In other news, water is wet.

                        [–]tchester [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                        How're you gonna show up to a serious protest rally wearing a shirt that has bugs bunny dabbing on it??

                        [–]Thveskev [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        I think kids should stop being edgy on the Internet

                        コメントをもっと表示する (40 返事)