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A brick was thrown through Angela Eagle's constituency office in Wallasey last night. Staff now not picking up phones they're getting abuse. (twitter.com)

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[–]yetieaterHopes A confederacy of dunces has a happy ending [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

The state cannot be 'captured' and used to further the working classes' interests.

Yeah it can. We've been doing it for about 100 years now.

Why? Ordinary working people in one country have more shared interests with working people in other countries than they do with rich capitalists in their own country. Nationalism is such a dangerous and pernicious ideology.

Because a government rules a single nation - by definition, it's social contract is only with the people of that nation. That isn't nationalism, that's being able to read a dictionary.

So basically, don't complain, it could be worse? That's the attitude that's kept people in shackles for millennia.

More like "we can improve things, look, they are not as bad as they were".

We removed more shackles than bloody handed revolutionaries that way.

You have a very caricatured view of what a revolution is.

History, mate. Those who fail to learn from it are doomed to repeat it.

[–]throwaway_f0r_todayAnarchist, Libertarian Socialist: -8.75, -9.54 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Yeah it can. We've been doing it for about 100 years now.

Give me one single example of something the state has done for working people in the past 100 years, that isn't just a rubber-stamping of an already foregone conclusion due to radical grassroots political action and pressure?

You also completely ignored my points about the deradicalising effect of reformism. As you have been doing with various points throughout the debate. Disingenuous.

Because a government rules a single nation - by definition, it's social contract is only with the people of that nation. That isn't nationalism, that's being able to read a dictionary.

Of course it does, the point I'm making is why do we live under a social system that means that we can't prioritise the wellbeing of everyone globally? A system without nation-states?

By the way, social contract theory is bollocks, just so you know.

We removed more shackles than bloody handed revolutionaries that way.

Lol, delusional.

History, mate. Those who fail to learn from it are doomed to repeat it.

Says the bloke who still maintains that capitalism is working after 200 years of brutality.

[–]yetieaterHopes A confederacy of dunces has a happy ending [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Give me one single example of something the state has done for working people in the past 100 years, that isn't just a rubber-stamping of an already foregone conclusion due to radical grassroots political action and pressure?

NHS. Minimum wage laws. Parental leave allowances. Union protections. Equality legislation. Social support for those out of work or unable to work. Most actual improvement in the lives of working people, as opposed to useless posturing by radicals.

As you have been doing with various points throughout the debate. Disingenuous.

You're in no position to demand anything. I ignore the bits that don't interest me, or warrant a response.

Of course it does, the point I'm making is why do we live under a social system that means that we can't prioritise the wellbeing of everyone globally? A system without nation-states?

Because that isn't how the world has worked out. Again, I work with what actually exists, not what the ghost of dead theorists whisper to us.

By the way, social contract theory is bollocks, just so you know.

It's a convenient model to describe the responsibility of a democratic government to the electorate.

Says the bloke who still maintains that capitalism is working after 200 years of reform to reduce it's brutality.

FTFY.

[–]throwaway_f0r_todayAnarchist, Libertarian Socialist: -8.75, -9.54 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

NHS. Minimum wage laws. Parental leave allowances. Union protections. Equality legislation. Social support for those out of work or unable to work. Most actual improvement in the lives of working people, as opposed to useless posturing by radicals.

These things are all concessions won by people organising and applying pressure. As Conservative MP Quintin Hogg said in 1943: 'If you don't give the people social reform, they will give you social revolution'. None of this was achieved by politicians passing laws in parliament. Of course capitalists are happy to make concessions like this when they think it will save their own skin, but they're all too happy to claw them back when they are more dominant.

Because that isn't how the world has worked out

So don't bother trying to change how the world works, even if it's shit?