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[–]LocoLoboSon 3758 points3759 points3760 points x2 (1790 children)
Black males make up less then 7% of the USA population.
  • Black males commit 56% of all robbery, despite being less than ~7% of the population. Source: FBI Crime in America 2013 Database
  • Black males commit 53% of all murder, despite being less than ~7% of the population. Source: FBI Crime in America 2013 Report
  • Despite making up less than 7% of the US population, black males commit 1 in every 3 rapes. Source: [FBI Crime in America 2013 Report
  • Young black men kill 14X more than young white men. Source: Time Magazine
  • Blacks make up more than 50% of all homicide victims. Source: US Department of Justice
  • 42% of all cop killers are black. Source: 2013 FBI Statistics on Law Enforcement Officers Killed
  • Blacks victims of homicide are 93% of the time killed by other blacks. Source: US Department of Justice
  • In 2006, blacks made up nearly 40% of the total prison population, despite being only 12% of the general population. Source: Bureau of Justice
*EDIT Fixed percentages from 12% (percentage of black population in USA) to 6% (percentage of black males in America)
*edit 2 RIP inbox
[–]squat_bench_press 592 points593 points594 points  (187 children)
Black males make up 75% of the NBA and 68% of the NFL
[–]wazappa 46 points47 points48 points  (48 children)
a free market for genetic differences
[–]fugee99 114 points115 points116 points  (45 children)
Or black kids see professional sports as a good option more than white kids. Growing up I knew white kids who liked playing basketball for fun and black kids who liked playing basketball as a hopeful career.
[–]CurlyNippleHairs 19 points20 points21 points  (13 children)
Professional athlete or rapper or bust for most of them.
[–]FormCheek61 17 points18 points19 points  (4 children)
it's also the one of the better paths to college.
Edit: I meant the sports part not the rap part
[–]AR-47 14 points15 points16 points  (1 child)
I remember when Michigan State University offered me a full ride as long as I represented their official school rap team. All that hard work finally paid off.
[–]J2quared 6 points7 points8 points  (7 children)
This. I grew up in the hood and there was more attention towards after school sports than say robotics or a math club. And that leaves no backup plan.
[–]Quantum_Rum 5 points6 points7 points  (6 children)
Why do people say 'this' before stating something?
[–]DDoubl3D 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
It's an odd trope to voice approval. Normally that's what upvotes are for but many choose to start their posts with it in case they want to add something.
[–]FoxylambA 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Feast or Famine
[–]ranjeezy 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
only 75% of the NBA? I thought it would be more honestly.
[–]sloppybuttmustard 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
The other 25% are Eastern European
[–]BlatantConservative 4264 points4265 points4266 points x3 (645 children)
This is completely true. Although its not a racial predisposition.
If you look at low income areas across the US, like in New York or DC or Chicago or Oakland, they're mainly full of black people.
The way schools work in the US is that county/city taxes pay for schools. If the area you live in is poor, the schools will suck, and if your schools suck, all the people who live there will stay poor and stuck there because they dont have the money to move out. Generations of poor people all stuck in the same place breed crime. Its a stupid feedback loop.
This is also why so many of them are victims and killing each other, they're stuck in the stupid feedback loop.
Edit: "But muh normalize by income."
Income is a factor of what Im talking about, but education is what Im saying is the difference. If someone can get me stats normalized by education level (dropped out of high school, graduated, dropped out of college, graduated, associates, bachelor's, masters, PHD, tech school, whatever) that would be interesting to see.
Edit 2: "But muh 'being poor isnt an excuse to commit crimes'"
Everyone who steals or murders or whatever should answer to the police and the legal system, obviously. But we as a society should understand the macro incentives that push more people to be more desperate and more willing to break the law. And those macro incentives have a lot to do with race, but its not an inherent characteristic of that race.
[–]VladTheSoviet 2621 points2622 points2623 points  (344 children)
Absolutely. It's essential to remember that this is less about race than socioeconomic and cultural situation.
[–]TLTheDougler 411 points412 points413 points  (40 children)
A good way to see that statistically is that in Canada, those sort of numbers are not the case for our black population but are similar to statistics for our First Nations population.
Edit: here's a relevant article on that. (I don't actually like this article, but it draws its conclusion from statistics that are relevant to this conversation, and Maclean's is a fairly respected magazine in Canada).
(I misread that second article in my haste and had a super incorrect conclusion here for about two minutes, sorry about that. Fixed).
In short, like the person I was responding to, I think socioeconomic status, education, and a cultural history of being oppressed have way more to do with these higher crime rates and victim rates than "race" and I believe these statistics help illustrate that.
[–]VladTheSoviet 110 points111 points112 points  (7 children)
Yep. And our First Nations population is underprivileged, impoverished, with poor education.
[–]TLTheDougler 43 points44 points45 points  (0 children)
Precisely.
Further, they have that brutal history of being oppressed. I'm not talking about that in the tumblr SJW sense. I mean, this generation is mostly growing up either without parents or whose parents were abused in our residential schools. It's hard to come out of that sort of upbringing as a functioning healthy adulet.
[–]postingstuff 10 points11 points12 points  (1 child)
It's not unique to you guys either, Australia is half the globe away with the exact same problem.
[–]Hipoltry 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
Pretty much anywhere you have large amounts of unemployed young men, crime will be a major problem.
[–]assdemonSpungluffen [score hidden]  (1 child)
A big one that can't be quantified easily is the cultural history of oppression. Anecdotal, but my 9 month internship with a large urban police department caused me to abandon my career goals of LE/social work. As the previous commenter noted, SES and education are major factors. The thing that struck me though was the almost nihilistic, flat earth attitude I came across during the vast majority of my interactions with people- perps, victims, witnesses. All of them kind of had this mindset that well, I was born here in this shit hole, and as far as I can tell this is the world, there's not point I'm trying to achieve something higher because there is nothing higher. Maybe sling enough dope and commit enough robberies to have a pretty nice car. It was like they didn't even realize the fact that they were living I. Dilapidated homes in a run down neighborhood wrought with crime of all flavors. It was really sad and really opened my eyes that throwing money at the problem wasn't going to help. One of the best funded schools in the entire metro area was where these kids went to school. Top of the line computer labs, brand new facilities, my BIL actually taught there because it paid really well. It's really sad because I realized that areas like that just need So. Much. Help. Like, they need a guidance counselor for every man woman and child because you can throw all of the welfare, education, and jobs programs at the problem you want, but the populace has to be educated and inspired to accept that help and want to use that help. I realized that I just did not have it in me to dedicate my entire career to that non stop uphill battle. I don't know if that makes me a bad person or less of a man for not doing everything I could to change the problem. But Jesus Christ what a task we have ahead of us.
[–]Prevailingguitar 3 points4 points5 points  (2 children)
Is First Nations like native Americans?
[–]baldheadted 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
Incarceration rates for blacks in Canada aren't that different than in the US. Blacks make up about 3% of the population in Canada but make up about 10% of the prison population.
[–]crashing_this_thread 943 points944 points945 points  (203 children)
It's a evil circle. And people blame it all on race and use this as an argument for the continuation of police brutality. Ignoring the fact that the entire population are potential victims of it. Except perhaps the elite.
You have a black president. Black people are people too. If they all got equal opportunities and the same education these statistics might change.
[–]steeleworks 565 points566 points567 points  (172 children)
If they all got equal opportunities and the same education these statistics might would definitely change.
Black people are not inherent criminals, our terrible social inequality in the US is what turns some minorities to a life of crime.
If you gave minorities the access (great healthcare, great education, clean parks, clean water, etc.) a majority of white people receive, you would see no difference in "races."
edit: some of these replies are so telling of how stupid reddit is when it comes to race relations.
[–]GreenStrong 46 points47 points48 points  (6 children)
If you gave minorities the access (great healthcare, great education, clean parks,
It isn't quite that simple. I live in Wake County, NC, which has a magnet school based bussing system that adds extra educational opportunities to schools in poor neighborhoods, which induces richer families to choose those schools, leading to voluntary desegregation. It is a good system, but the problem is that the students from disadvantaged neighborhoods produce more behavior problems, so the schools with more resources are still worse.
A similar issue exists with parks. Many readers will live in communities where the city has "given" the poor neighborhood a nice park, and it got trashed in a few years. I think the key word here is given. Poor people, or people of color, are disadvantaged, but they aren't helpless and passive. They need to build the resources that improve their community. Their skills and resources aren't as great, so wealthier neighbors need to invest a bit more, but if they don't engage in the process, it will fail as completely as nation building failed in occupied Afghanistan.
There are two ways to read the word "gave" in your post. One could interpret it as a proposition for debate- "given equal circumstances, equal outcomes". The second way of reading it- "these people need to be given more" is so condescending as to be toxic. I don't know which sense you mean, but the second concept is alive and well in the national debate.
[–]hardman52 [score hidden]  (0 children)
It's basically long-term historical family dysfunction that produces criminals. When they're all ghettoized in the same neighborhood, that produces the dysfunctional culture that further reinforces the tendency.
[–]mitten-kittens [score hidden]  (0 children)
Of course those kids display more disruptive behavior. Statistically speaking their more likely to come from a single parent home with less supervision as the parent has to work more. They probably have poorer nutrition. They're disciplined in different ways than their peers.
And it's not surprising that a nice park would get trashed either. If you're not raised with a sense of pride in your community and surroundings, dropping a nice park in there isn't going to develop civic pride overnight.
These things are stepping stones. You can't fix problems that took generations to develop in a few years. It'll take a generation or two to solve.
[–]oEMPYREo 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
I tend to disagree with that now. I believe it is a culture issue now. I can totally see why black people have the culture they have now. They were completely segregated and treated as second class citizens for many many years. Then even after desegregation there was still hatred and police brutality and moving them into certain neighborhoods etc. However, in 2016, I dont think a lot of those barriers still exist. I think a black person has a great opportunity to be accepted into a college or get a job with the proper qualifications. I think it's the culture that is engrained on them now. I totally see why they have that culture, years of abuse and distrust of the system, but when does that culture start impeding progress on their own communities?
[–]ibtrippindoe 13 points14 points15 points  (23 children)
But how do you explain the fact that there are more poor white people in America but black people still commit more violent crimes.
edit: not to argue that black people are inherently criminal, but to say that its more to do with culture than with economics (although economics very obviously plays a major role)
[–]xxretartistxx 23 points24 points25 points  (72 children)
theres still the thug culture problem to be solved
some are raised to love the gang culture
[–]WhapXI 23 points24 points25 points  (5 children)
Then engage them in mainstream culture. This is why stuff like representation and writing non-stereotypical characters is important. This is why addressing the issues that non-white people face in mainstream culture/media is important. Its a natural inclination to adopt and follow a culture that you feel represents you, and gives you a sense of community, negative aspects and all.
[–]MizarsAsterism 13 points14 points15 points  (2 children)
This is why stuff like representation and writing non-stereotypical characters is important.
As long as they fit the setting and are well written. Token black character or token female character (or token gay dude etc.) are suffering tropes because a disappointing number of writers don't focus on adding a good character but focus on adding a black character. Young people aren't stupid and can see when you're just trying to check something off a list.
[–]WhapXI 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
Agreed. People complaining about The Witcher having an all-white cast was mind-bogglingly stupid. Tokenism is stupid as hell.
[–]Rapier_and_Pwnard 7 points8 points9 points  (9 children)
It's not gonna be a one generation fix. Changing a culture takes a long time.
[–]mirror_1 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
It isn't race, it's culture. It's a specific mindset that seems to be present among black communities that causes this trouble.
[–]DaneMac 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Issue is not all peoole in the us get equal opportunities regardless of their race.
[–]P1000123 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I'm sure if they did a study it would reveal that police in areas with more crime are more likely to be involved in confrontation as well. If the police always have their guard up because of the neighborhood they work in, the more likely it is that something bad will happen involving them. Just a vicious cycle all around.
[–]mister_sleepy 176 points177 points178 points  (25 children)
The socioeconomic and cultural situation is the racial situation. The New Jim Crow is an enlightening book on the subject.
[–]chubbyurma 26 points27 points28 points  (7 children)
That title would be an awkward one to have to hunt down in a library,
"Hi, I'm uh....I'm looking or that New Jim Crow book...?"
[–]iinformedyouthusly 27 points28 points29 points  (1 child)
It's a fairly popular book. Chances are a librarian would know what you mean.
[–]Derekabutton 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I've read this! Very enlightening book. My understanding from it was that the "underclass" includes not only blacks, but poor of any race. The old (and new) Jim Crow laws were developed with this underclass in mind.
[–]Sawses 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Race itself is not causally linked to any sort of crime, as far as modern research is aware. It puts you in a "high risk group," much like gay men are at a much higher risk of HIV. That doesn't mean being gay causes HIV to fly at you from the nearest infected wang. At one point, homosexuals neither knew nor cared about HIV, thus had lots of unprotected sex, causing an epidemic. That means that, if you're a gay man, you're at a higher risk of interacting with a partner who has HIV, thus increasing your own risk. Being gay doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get HIV, it just means other factors that are linked to HIV (use of condoms, percentage of population infected, etc.).
Likewise, if you're born black, chances are you're born into poverty because, a few centuries back, people with your skin color were kinda-sorta property. Thus, when a shit ton of them got freed in a short span of time, all these poor people ended up working jobs that required no education or particular skill. That doesn't mean that, racially, black people are more prone to crime or less intelligent. It just means they're in a "high risk group," because their population has more contact with other factors (poverty, low education, a criminal culture caused by said poverty and low education, etc.). Race might have started the process, like sexual orientation did with HIV, but that doesn't mean it's still necessarily a cause.
[–]DrCrick 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
Well if its socioeconomic how come more whites aren't commuting violent crime considering there are more white people in poverty than black people?
[–]LEGALinSCCCA 5 points6 points7 points  (3 children)
Socioeconomics and culture are completely different. Go to a small town in rural Montana, then go to East St. Louis. Both are extremely socioeconomically depressed, and both have drastically different values and ideas about life and order and justice.
[–]GiuseppeZangara 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
True, but they are completely different environments. The small town in Montana doesn't have the population density to support a large drug market. East St. Louis is within a large metropolitan area. This can support gangs who mostly thrive on drug sales.
[–]castiglione_99 [score hidden]  (0 children)
DoJ crime stat indicate that among the poor, it really doesn't make a difference whether you live in an urban, or rural area, in terms of whether you'll be a victim of violent crime, or not. I suspect that the drug gangs may make up a lower percentage of the people that commit violent crime than we are led to believe; it may very well be that most of the violent crimes are committed by normal people who just flip out.
[–]Forgototherpassword 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
It doesn't matter if they have it the same or worse, because they still have.... That's what it always comes back to.
/s
[–]_pulsar 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
So then I assume white people who live in the same situation commit crimes at the same rate?
[–]DrCrick 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
Nope. There are WAYYY more whites in poverty than blacks.
[–]hpiavery 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Would that it were true! Even when controlling for socioeconomic status, these disparities still arise. Poor blacks are roughly four times as likely to commit crime when compared to poor whites.
When controlling for IQ and lifetime record of violence, however, racial disparities in crime rates vanish entirely.
[–]failwhale2352 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
Very, very few people think it is intrinsic to genetic race. The debate is whether we think of black culture as purely a result of bad external circumstances, or whether black culture itself propagates bad circumstances. For example, black culture in America glorifies rappers who rap largely violent, homophobic, misogynistic, and hedonistic lyrics. To some extent, this likely encourages black youth violence. But we could also say that the success of hip hop culture is a result of a lack of alternative opportunities.
[–]Il_Gigante_Buono 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
This is my belief but is there evidence. What is the crime rates of whites of comparable economic background?
[–]kintaeb 384 points385 points386 points  (55 children)
Also, the statistic that 93% of blacks murdered are killed by other blacks isn't relevant, because something like 87% of whites murdered are by other whites. It's just that people murder who they know and the country is segregated.
[–]Ehutzz 68 points69 points70 points  (19 children)
It is relevant because it dispels the fiction that white on black murder is a huge problem
[–]AnyDemocratWillDo 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Most deaths occur in a small group of people close to you when it comes to murder. Neighbors, people you work with, lovers, family, etc. Our social circles are filled with those most similar to us and that includes race.
[–]hrod1 14 points15 points16 points  (13 children)
So do blacks and whites index equally if you control for low income areas?
[–]Porcelo 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
I know you want really really badly for it not to be racial predisposition, but even when you normalize the stats accounting for income, the crime rates for black males are still exponentially higher than any other race.
[–]PM_ME_ECON_ARTICLES [score hidden]  (0 children)
It's almost like when you compare a black man and a white man with the same low income, the black man still deals with additional challenges (that the white man will never face) due to both systematic and more subtle forms of racial discrimination.
[–]demetri_k 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
I think it's similar to what happens with aboriginal people in Canada.
Winnipeg typically has the highest murder rate in Canada. The violence happens in the core area which the police refer to as the war zone.
There were 44 murders in Winnipeg last year
[–]Hodr 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
That's how it works in some places, but many states directly fund schools and there is plenty of Federal money. If your old enough to remember when schools first started integrating computers on a per student basis this was often done in the poorer neighborhoods first.
[–]dj2short 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Is crime ever the fault of the criminal?
[–]IanStone 32 points33 points34 points  (1 child)
It's worth noting that a lot of the poor infrastructure in minority communities is many times deliberate. Equally qualified minority applicants are less likely to be approved for loans/mortgages, businesses in minority neighborhoods are less likely to be granted bank loans, defendants who are people of color also receive harsher sentences for the same crimes. Your race plays a major impact on how your day to day life works, it's important to stay cognizant of that.
[–]P1000123 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Blatant racism is a huge factor in those numbers. That's what I'm saying. It's a popular mentality to dismiss the black violence numbers by saying "it's not a racial issue", but they fail to realize that it's a huge factor a people's unhappiness. A better way to look at the black violence statistics is that it is hand in hand with how white people treat black people.
[–]divajess 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Even with things like Title 1 money that is supposed to make up for the deficiencies, there is just no comparison. Also, there is increasing research about the role stress plays on the learning environment, and living in poverty creates tremendous stress. There are a thousand other reasons that current education structure doesn't work for poor black kids. I see it every day and it makes me crazy.
[–]1-Lucky-SOB 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I agree that this is a huge factor and black people are NOT inherently violent. However, you can't ignore that there is a poisonous culture in the black community that is very popular. In my state funding for public schools gets redistributed so my very wealthy towns taxes go to the very poor black city. They have more money than they know what to do with (giving kids tablets and building a bronze statue money) and graduation rates are still less than 75%.
[–]tetralih 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
The school system is set up so that schools in poor neighborhoods get extra money to help offset the taxes thing. Schools in wealthy neighborhoods actually receive the least amount of money. It is not that the schools suck. It is that the school and the teachers are working against a culture that does not believe in education. Most of the kids are in the school because it is illegal for them to not be in the school until they are 16. I have had students who were told that they were only born to populate the gang and that at 16 their job is to be a part of that gang. Some kids have to work to support family especially if one or both parents are incarcerated. Higher education is something only the "rich" can afford.
It is a crazy mindset in the cycle of poverty.
[–]rtkierke 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
There is a feedback loop, but it has nothing to do with the city/county taxes. Actually, urban areas, i.e. those with typically low ses students, often have the highest budgets and teacher salaries in a given state. They have to pay teachers more to work in urban areas because the problems with student achievement in 'bad' schools are typically the students and their backgrounds. They can't really help this, but it's not the system's fault. The teachers in these areas are not worse teachers than those in 'successful' schools. The teachers have more behavioral and academic issues to overcome. It is far more complex than taxes. Source: I am an urban teacher.
[–]hamburgerlove413 6 points7 points8 points  (2 children)
But cities and counties are not generally poor throughout? or is school funding by district? Also, don't title 1 schools (schools in low-income areas) receive more funding? I think it's more of a cultural thing (not race) than an education issue personally. Education IS affected though, but because of these cultural issues.
[–]DataWhale 8 points9 points10 points  (1 child)
In my city many poorer areas have amazing new school facilities. Thing is kids with a shitty home life don't give a fuck about school, and they are probably heavily influenced by their peers, too. Kids who try to succeed are bullied pretty badly. *note that this is all based on anecdotes and conjecture
[–]hamburgerlove413 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
Exactly, it's a problem with these areas just not caring about education. and it's a feedback loop that gets passed through each generation.
[–]IAmNotMyName 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
I don't think anyone is arguing that. I do think it illuminates the mindset of police in regards to their interactions with young black males.
[–]quantum-mechanic 7 points8 points9 points  (5 children)
Meanwhile, if you look at low income areas across the US, like in Montana or South Dakota or Tennessee or Maine north of Portland, they are mainly full of white people.
[–]XJollyRogerX 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Friend of mone teaches at a school like this. I can tell you its not all the schools. Its more so the attitude of the students. They dont care at all.
[–]muchdogeisenseinyou 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Although its not a racial predisposition.
Except you can't claim that with any authority. It very well could be, but it would be another statistic people don't want to hear.
[–]peon2 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I agree that income obviously plays a role, however if we look at some statistics here
We see that in 2010, 27.4% of black people were poor and 9.9% of non-hispanic whites were poor. In 2010 Non-Hispanic Whites are approximately 63% of the total population (about 196 million), blacks are approxmiately 12% of the population (about 36 million).
Those numbers were taken from census website
So doing a little math shows that if 9.9% of 196 million whites live in poverty than that means there are 19.4 million poor whites. If 27.4% of the 36 million blacks live in poverty that means there are 9.86 million poor blacks.
So as you can see blacks live in poverty at about 3 times the rate of whites, but due to population size there are still more poor white people than poor black people. So on a national level why do black males, as /u/LocoLocoSon pointed out, commit 56% of robberies/53% murder/etc? If income was the real driving factor, we'd see that whites should still commit about double the crimes of blacks, but that isn't the case. Btw my numbers were for total population, his crime statistics were just by black males.
[–]coherent_thought 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Bullshit. There are plenty of poor, white areas and you don't see the same statistics there.
[–]mirror_1 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
There are poor areas that are mostly white, aren't they? Why don't you compare them?
[–]DaltorMartron2011 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
They aren't stuck there. People can make it out if they want to. Just because you are born into a poor class doesn't mean you're stuck there forever, and assuming that or believing that is a lazy excuse.
[–]f1sh98 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
Boy I have just been seeing you everywhere today!
[–]CaptainDBaggins 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
But haven't they shown that flooding these schools with extra funding does nothing to improve outcomes? There is more to it than just poor schools.
[–]rabbithole 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Genuinely curious here. If you look at poverty statistics, there are more whites living in poverty than blacks. You state there is no racial predisposition to violence, so why don't whites account for a far greater percentage of those crime statistics OP listed?
[–]You_Have_No_Power 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I know right, look at all the Asians like myself growing up in housing projects that grow up to be criminals!
Edit: wait no still not criminal.
[–]GroundhogExpert 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
You just removed agency from an entire race of people, and possibly an entire class of people. But your argument overall fails to make any sense of the data. There are more poor white people than poor black people, yet there more more violent black criminals.
[–]MaxxBreak 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
It very well could be a racial predisposition. On average black people are 1-1.1 standard deviations below white people in IQ. Intelligence (I would consider the ability to delay gratification an act of intelligence) correlates with the risk of an individual to commit a crime. People say income is a factor, however income often correlates with intelligence as well.
[–]GrizzlyBurps 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Generations of poor people all stuck in the same place breed crime.
Appalachia is generational poverty... don't recall seeing those areas topping high crime rate lists.
[–]ImAScaryGhost 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I grew up in a poor neighborhood. My zoned elementary school was all black and my middle school was just as shit. But then, because I wasn't a dumbass I decided to get into an extremely good high school. Studied by butt off. Now in a pretty good college. Oh yeah, I was literally one of two Asian kids, in that all black elementary and middle school. I would have also gone to the shittiest high school in the city if I didn't do what I did. My experiences tell me that it's mostly a race thing. Granted a lot of those kids had single parents and a bunch was already left back 3 grades, I guess I sort of had the advantage. But what's the actual source of these kids problems? Are the genetically stupid? Or are their negligent parents the stupid ones because their brains were fried with drugs? Either way, you don't know what you're talking about. Opportunities are everywhere, especially for black people.
[–]bs3ac 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I agree to a lot that you've said, however if you look back at passed generations you'll find that many white families also came from poverty but worked for a better future.
My grandparents came from Italy to England with hardly a penny to their name in the 60's. They worked ridiculously long hours for a measly wage but they sacrificed to give their future generations a better life. My father works a manual job (mechanic) but owns his own home along side my mother who works in telesales. My generation is the first that went to university and has professional jobs.
I think a key factor is a stable family. My parents have been married 30 years. My grandparents 55 years. Statistics show that it is far more common that black youths are brought up in both poverty and single parent households. The loop will continue until someone decides to work hard for a better future for their kids.
[–]bs3ac 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I agree to a lot that you've said, however if you look back at passed generations you'll find that many white families also came from poverty but worked for a better future.
My grandparents came from Italy to England with hardly a penny to their name in the 60's. They worked ridiculously long hours for a measly wage but they sacrificed to give their future generations a better life. My father works a manual job (mechanic) but owns his own home along side my mother who works in telesales. My generation is the first that went to university and has professional jobs.
I think a key factor is a stable family. My parents have been married 30 years. My grandparents 55 years. Statistics show that it is far more common that black youths are brought up in both poverty and single parent households. The loop will continue until someone decides to work hard for a better future for their kids.
[–]not-Kid_Putin 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
It's about average IQ differences. Whites with similar IQs to the black average are in similar socioeconomic positions as most blacks. Blacks with higher IQs (with exception to maybe some actors and athletes) live in much better scenarios. IQ is the determination of poverty and unfortunately due to many largely unknown factors, african americans have a lower average IQ
[–]voideng 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
In Appalachia there are more poor white people than there are blacks in total. But the crime statistics are vastly dissimilar. Although I do not think there is a racial predisposition for criminal activity, I do think that there is a cultural predisposition towards it. It is critically important to understand the cultural differences, but also not use it as a reason for tolerance.
[–]gigatrap [score hidden]  (0 children)
There are more poor white pople in America than poor black people.
[–]ristorilsm [score hidden]  (0 children)
Poor white areas in the south have way lower crime rates than poor blacks.
[–]KKV 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
This isn't true. At every income level, blacks commit more crimes and end up in prison more frequently. There are plenty of sources.
Most academics arguing for a purely environmental origin of the gap abandoned the socioeconomic argument a long time ago because it is flat out false and easily proven to be so.
[–]Mavsma [score hidden]  (0 children)
your link is specific to incarceration, but makes no mention of crime statistics. It actually seems to support the notion that whites get away with crimes committed over blacks but doesn't go into whether it's the same crimes alleged. It's an acknowledged trend that the wealthier the suspect, the more likely they will not serve time, this article again seems to support that and not your claims.
[–]DarkCrime 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
Blacks are only 2.7 times as likely to be in poverty. If you were to create some sort of crime/poverty index, in which crime rates are adjusted for poverty, they would still be way more likely to commit crime.
There are almost twice the number of white people below the poverty line as black people in the US. Using the numbers found on Wikipedia, there are about 9.6 million black Americans below the poverty line and 19.2 million white Americans below the poverty line. So, if "irrespective of race, [poor areas] have an increase in violence" then whites would be committing violence at a race twice that of blacks.
Poverty rates are insufficient to explain the differences in crime rate. There are more whites than blacks at every level of income (in absolute numbers), there are twice as many whites in poverty as blacks and yet blacks commit more murders than whites (in absolute numbers).
So we can say with relative certainty that when it comes to crimes like rape and murder which are not committed for economic gain that poverty is not a sufficient explanation.
The link between the two isn't even that particularly strong.
For the years 2006-2011, the Census-ACS provides estimates of the Mean Income, Median Income, and Poverty Rates for each urban center, and we can easily perform the same calculations we did in the racial case. The correlations between the Mean Income and Median Income levels and the various crime categories generally fall in the range of -0.40 to -0.60, being moderately rather than strongly negative. Even the correlation between Poverty Rate and crime—supported by the obvious truism that most street criminals are poor—is hardly enormous, falling between 0.50 and 0.70, and usually well below our racial figures.
What is odd is that Detroit spends roughly $15,000 a year per pupil which is $5,000 more than the national average and $3,000 more per year than the rest of Michigan.
Inner city schools are often more well funded than their rural less diverse counterparts.
The HS graduation rate for black students in Indianapolis is only 62%. That isn't a failure you can attribute to the school system. It is the parents and students who are responsible. No matter how much money is poured into this problem nothing will change.Indianapolis spends roughly $7,800 per student which is $2000 more per student than the state average.
It is the same in Chicago. Per pupil spending in 2011 averaged a staggering 13,432.53. Teachers and administrators in the Chicago public school system enjoy some of the highest salaries in the nation.
Some administrators make over $200k a year. The state average per pupil spending is 11,841.53. Children in rural areas of southern Illinois receive a third less money that what children in Chicago receive.
Of the 5,574 juveniles arrested on CPS grounds in 2010, 74% were African American.
[–]pfohl [score hidden]  (0 children)
If you were to create some sort of crime/poverty index, in which crime rates are adjusted for poverty, they would still be way more likely to commit crime.
oh hey, it's that /pol/ spam that doesn't know what omitted-variable bias is.
The one that uses single variate methods to imply race>socioeconomics instead of controlling for other things that affect crime like population density. I bet you conflate socioeconomics with income too!
It looks like theirs some new stuff, like saying education in Detroit costs more than the rest of Michigan as if to imply black Americans can't be educated regardless of expense. Maybe it's because urban areas have higher costs of education, e.g. this study found the cost to be ~30% higher in urban areas.
[–]honeypup 5 points6 points7 points  (5 children)
Thank you, I was going to say this. I love how people are so prepared to pull out these statistics but don't bother to learn or explain why it's like that. Must be because them blacks are naturally evil, right? Not surprised honestly, considering this is Reddit.
[–]bojl -1 points0 points1 point  (22 children)
Also unarmed black people confronted by police are 2x more likely to be shot than unarmed white people
[–]wazappa 11 points12 points13 points  (9 children)
false, last stat i heard, said 3% of police killings were of unarmed people, and that was equal for blacks and whites.
[–]rhynodegreat 5 points6 points7 points  (4 children)
If it's an equal number of black quite people being killed, then black people are killed at a much higher rate. If it's an equal rate, that's different.
[–]wazappa 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
3% of police kills happened to unarmed people. 3% of white police kills happened to unarmed white people, 3% of black police kills happened to unarmed black people.
[–]kronox 3 points4 points5 points  (3 children)
White people make up 50% of all fatal police shootings, blacks is something like 26%. I don't know where you're statistic comes from but if you look at the big picture there is absolutely no racial motivation behind police "brutality" as a whole. There may be a few cases here and there but by and large the numbers make sense based on the population.
[–]THRUSSIANBADGER 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
The thing is it is hard to come up with a solution for that. Yes the fact that these poor areas receive little in school funding creates a cycle of poverty but, if the wealthier areas pay more in taxes and pay more money for the schools, they should also be receiving more than the areas that are paying less?
[–]Ryaubee 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
It's sad that so many people will read the first comment and think that all of that is a "black problem."
The point we need to remember is that our culture is continuing to put African Americans in environments where crime is a way to survive. It's not like black people are inherently more likely to commit crimes. It's about your environment and lifestyle you're brought into.
[–]YoungLungsCoughing 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
So what's the deal with rape statistic? You can be so poor it makes you go out and rape?
[–]Noondozer 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
This is not true in Texas, and I doubt its true across the whole country.
A portion of the school tax goes to local schools correct, but In Texas we have Robin hood laws that also take a portion of your school taxes and go to poorer underperforming schools.
ALSO, federally funded grants almost certainly go to lower class schools.
Its unfortunately more about the students and PARENTS than people think. I believe there's a study that shows if the school population is below 20% Black, the school not only thrives but the minority students also succeed. That's why the Magnet school system was created.
Personally, when I was Highschool, I worked for a contractor for HISD and we were remodeling a mostly black underperforming school. I was in the marching band, and decided to check out their band room because the school was empty. Now, My marching band was in a top tier high school, but we had very tight budgets. Our marching drums were old about 10 years old. When I went into the band room, there was a stack of instruments about 15 feet high in the center of the room like it was about to be a bon fire. It was the most aggravating thing I have ever seen. probably 20-30k in percussion and tubas just fucking thrown in this giant pile. New stuff too. I was mad, and at that point I understood right then why minority schools suffer, and it has nothing to do with funding. Its the students and parents. If you don't care about your education then you're going to be a bad student, and unfortunately it affects the kids around you as well.
People in this thread believe its the society that's that's keeping lower classes down, but I think it's a lot to do with their culture.
[–]madbubers 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
How does poverty excuse crime?
[–]DarkerDaze 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
China towns used to be mini internment camps. Asians weren't allowed to live anywhere else nor attend any schools outside of this area. They had little access to basic resources. This was the equivalent to a low socio-economic class.
YET, Asians are now the highest median earners in the US, with the highest education rates and lowest crime rates.
At some point, we should recognize that it is POSSIBLE for a class of people to rise, even if its despite society. I recognize that there are institutional walls against certain races, but I feel that the class of people should also have some responsibility in their well being.
Nobody talks about Asians when it comes to racism because it doesn't fit their "story". Nobody talks about Laundromats, Gambling Houses, etc. because its a story that proves that an undermined class of people can rise despite their situation and despite the "white man".
You can't have a realistic take on race without recognizing that there is no black and white. Yes, society plays a part. But yes, other things do as well, some that may correlate to race (such as specific cultures).
[–]campag 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
You're exactly right. The problem is, left wing rags don't recognise this.
They say "the police are institutionally racist because 25% of those they shot were black, whereas only 13% of America is black". Well actually, more blacks were shot because more of them commit crime.
[–]Arcola56 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
That's why the government is out of its mind. If they really wanted to help crime, minorities, and the economy, they would take tax money from useless government organizations and instead invest in community programs in slums and ghettos. They commit crime because they pretty much have to. It reminds me of when the US banned imports of goods produced by child labor. All that did, according to UNICEF, was take many many children out of relatively safe and stable factory jobs and into drug trafficking and prostitution.
[–]publicfinance 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I don't know about all states but in most the school districts also receive state funding on top of the property taxes they receive. Also, taxes that pay for schools are not county/city taxes they are specific to each district, ie there can be multiple districts within a city itself. A school district is its own legal entity and runs entirely independent of a city or county.
[–]VideoGameLover 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
. If the area you live in is poor, the schools will suck
Stanton College Prep, located in a real nasty hood in jacksonville, but it's the best highschool in the state (public)
now i'm not saying that you're wrong. i'm just saying this isn't true for every school in a poor area.
[–]ramsncardsfan7 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
Exactly. People don't understand that black people behaving poorly and the racism that follows is all started by poverty that was created by us white people.
[–]JJisTheDarkOne 49 points50 points51 points  (18 children)
Australia:
Australian Bureau of Statistics figures show that Indigenous Australians account for around 25% of Australia's prison population, yet the 2006 census documented that there are 455,031 Indigenous people, who are either Australian Aborigines or Torres Strait Islanders, in Australia, accounting for 2.3 percent of the population.
[–]IStillLikeChieftain 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
Similar statistics here in Canada with Natives.
4% of the population, 23% of the prison population, and rising dramatically.
[–]hoseking 17 points18 points19 points  (16 children)
I am going to guess the vast majority of them are low income and have poor education? Seems like a trend....
[–]theronious 26 points27 points28 points  (6 children)
History of attempted genocide and later social marginalisation. Widespread racist treatment. Low income. Poor education. Basically it's exactly what you would imagine.
[–]AmazingMarv 8 points9 points10 points  (3 children)
Marginalized groups are gonna behave like marginalized groups.
American blacks went through slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, redlining, etc. The Civil Rights Acts passed in 1964, the Voting Rights Acts one year later. That was 50ish years ago. That's two generations, not very long in the timeline of a society.
Is it just a coincidence that the group that has been fucked over the most in American history has some damning stats?
[–]theronious 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
Nope, not a coincidence at all, which is why it's the same over here in Aus as over there in the US. If anything though, I think the better analogy with you guys would be to your native Americans.
[–]Leminems [score hidden]  (0 children)
What native americans? /s
[–]pickengrin [score hidden]  (0 children)
Did you know that In 2005, the U.S. Department of Justice began an investigation and the following year filed suit under the Voting Rights Act alleging that the chairman of the Noxubee County Democratic Party, Ike Brown, had conspired to orchestrate "relentless racial discrimination" against white voters.
[–]Thangka6 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Very good points, but here in the US, we are too busy talking about racially divisive correlations and statistics, no time to dwell on causation.
[–]syrne [score hidden]  (0 children)
Serious question, why don't we see similar problems among the Jewish population?
[–]TheBufordStick 1 point2 points3 points  (6 children)
It's not. Look at West Virginia. One of the poorest states in the union, yet has a pretty low violent crime rate. It's almost totally white.
[–]faue 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
The population density for West Virginia is low compared to most states in the U.S. There is a *statistically significant correlation between crime rate and population density; crime isn't all that viable when your closest neighbor is 4 miles away.
[–]TheBufordStick -2 points-1 points0 points  (1 child)
It doesn't appear that it controlled for race.
Correlation does not equal causation.
This list is all filled by pretty sparsely populated countries.
edit: And as I noted in another post, while West Virginia is sparsely populated, so is Arkansas and Mississippi. They are equally poor, yet Arkansas and Mississippi has higher violent crime rates.
[–]faue [score hidden]  (0 children)
It doesn't appear that it controlled for race.
It doesn't make sense to control for an endogenous variable. Population distributions aren't random, there is a long history of juridical and economic practices that have segregated blacks into densely populated areas.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation indicates a relationship between variables and scientists use them to construct appropriate models. From the second article's discussion:
By and large, the available evidence increasingly tends to suggest that most types of crime tend to increase in levels of occurrence with increasing population density. This relationship, however, is moderated by SES.
I'm not saying there aren't other factors involved in crime rates (and particularly homicide rates) - of course there are. However, ceteris paribus, the available data indicates that higher population density positively correlates with crime rates.
edit: And as I noted in another post, while West Virginia is sparsely populated, so is Arkansas and Mississippi. They are equally poor, yet Arkansas and Mississippi has higher violent crime rates.
The population density in WV is still lower than either Arkansas or Mississippi. Also, as another replier mentioned, the number of high population cities in WV is far lower than either Arkansas or Mississippi.
[–]IlikeJG 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
Relative poverty is the important statistic. If the whole place is poor, then there's less driving force towards crime.
If you're incredibly poor and everyone around you is affluent and wealthy, then there's going to be a lot more incentive to commit crimes.
[–]TheBufordStick 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
The GINI coefficient is middle of the pack of the states for West Virginia.
[–]DingleberrySweat -4 points-3 points-2 points  (0 children)
Let the bullshit just flow through you, man.
[–]evertjm 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Yep.
Western Australia outside of Perth, Northern Territory outside of Darwin and anywhere north of the Tropic of Capricorn in Queensland fits this perfectly.
[–]Jepson_ -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Yeah like a huge amount of indigenous people are overweight, smoking, alcoholic, and it's not their fault. It's simply because in the rural country towns they may live in it is far easier to get booze than fresh food. Now as the animals have been driven away it is required to purchase things but sometimes they don't have employment so they can't buy stuff, sometimes they don't have an education to they can't get a job so their kids don't get an education, etc etc starts a cycle of poverty that's pretty sad but slowly improving.
[–]whoops519 1312 points1313 points1314 points  (230 children)
Blacks also make up the majority of the extremely poor in America. We can't talk about race without talking about class because these statistics are coming from places of desperation. Black people are not inherently violent or criminal, but our society has forced them into a position where those traits are sometimes the only methods of survival.
[–]crashing_this_thread 874 points875 points876 points  (83 children)
Poor white people tend to be delinquent as well.
[–]Justin413 564 points565 points566 points  (23 children)
Lower class = higher chance of becoming a criminal
[–]is_annoying 14 points15 points16 points  (2 children)
Desperation leads to crime more so than malevolence.
[–]DaSaw 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
I think desperation plays a role, but I also think the fact that they have little to lose plays a role, as well. There've been plenty of times when I've been tempted to commit a crime of some sort (petty theft, occasionally anger related violence), and the fact that I have a halfway decent job I'd prefer not to lose plays at least as big a role in dissuading me from committing a crime as my upbringing.
[–]articulateantagonist [score hidden]  (0 children)
That's true, but it's also about who people rely on in their community. From what I've experienced in lower-income black neighborhoods in Chicago and Memphis, the primary reason people in low-income areas turn specifically to organized crime is because their local infrastructure doesn't offer them the same security and support as it does in higher-income areas.
If you're poor and unable to get a good education or a job that pays more than minimum wage, you may not be afford to buy medicine or good food or a nice house -- but the local gang might pay you to deal drugs, and they might pay you well enough to make it worthwhile to risk your life. Maybe your friends and family are already involved, and being part of that makes you feel like you're part of a community with power and influence.
If you live in an area with a high crime rate, you may not feel safe calling the police in an emergency because the overworked cops might take a long time to get there, or you might be afraid they'll bust you for dealing drugs if you call them for help -- but the local gang might protect you because you work for them.
It's a vicious cycle.
[–]cbarrister 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
Yeah, if you have something to lose, you aren't going to risk it all for something stupid. Not a lot of guys pulling down six figures trying to rob a liquor store with a stolen gun to maybe make $500.
[–]OviraptorGaming 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
"Well why don't they just get better jobs" /s
[–]xBlackfox 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Depends on the crime tbh
[–]well-lighted 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Statistically, the strongest predictor for everything from crime to poor grades and behavior in school to early drug/alcohol use--basically every "problem behavior"--is income level. Of course, that is inextricable from race, and gender for that matter, so any attempt at advocacy has to be intersectional to be effective.
[–]DammitDan 1 point2 points3 points  (4 children)
It's almost as if not having anything will make you more likely to take things.
[–]JobieWanKenobi [score hidden]  (2 children)
I grew up poor, I never thought it would be better to commit crime. I worked my way up, making less than $8 an hour, put myself through school, working 40hrs a week, and moved up again, etc. etc.
[–]AFlyingMexican5 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Anecdotal evidence; if it's even true.
[–]DammitDan [score hidden]  (0 children)
more likely
If 1 out of 100 well-off people steal shit, while 3 in 100 poor people steal shit, that means poor people would be 3 times as likely to steal shit, even though 97 out of 100 poor people don't steal shit.
Obviously made up numbers, but it's just to highlight the point that an increased likelihood is not a guarantee in any way.
[–]EdgarAllanNope_ 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
Poor white people are usually in rural areas where there's less trouble to get into.
[–]ayovita [score hidden]  (0 children)
There is hardly anything to get into. Truly rural areas don't even have sidewalks for people to walk on
[–]P1000123 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Absolutely. If poor white people are bad, imagine if you added a huge helping of hatred and racism for your kind. Of course the numbers are going to be higher.
[–]Lobotomist 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
Also higher class =higher class criminal ( more likely never to br caught )
[–]herrschmetterling 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
Even if they are "caught", they'll be let off, or can hire a good lawyer and literally get away with murder, or some asshole judge will conclude that "prison wouldn't suit them" and reduce their sentence to nothing.
If a rich person gets the sentence they deserve, it's news.
[–]Lobotomist 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
Exactly. This is why these statistic mean nothing except a proof that statistic mean nothing since the system is skewed.
[–]herrschmetterling [score hidden]  (0 children)
Gotta love the two-tier justice system.
[–]FluffyN00dles 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I think they are just at a higher chance of commiting a crime that will get them caught.
[–]Sumtypeoway [score hidden]  (0 children)
Are there not millions more poverty stricken whites than blacks? It's not solely about money or lack thereof
[–]Executioneer [score hidden]  (0 children)
I think it is working the other way too.
Higher class = higher chance of becoming a criminal
(eg: corruption)
[–]_LuckyDucky_ 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Oh god, here come the criminal class assertions now...
:(
[–]CatRelatedUsername 53 points54 points55 points  (22 children)
And yet Rural Appalachia has a violent crime rate lower than the national average.
[–]Veruna_Semper 9 points10 points11 points  (1 child)
Rural areas tend to have lower crime rates. I would be interested to see statistics on predominantly white low income urban areas though.
[–]CatRelatedUsername 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
The only real analogue we have are poor Hispanics (inb4 but they're not white). Their crime rates are higher, but from what I understand they're still not as high as in predominately poor African American areas.
[–]panascope [score hidden]  (0 children)
The key thing is rural. Your odds of violent interpersonal conflict are lower if your neighbor is several miles away.
[–]MethylBenzene 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Well, people are spread out in rural Appalachia. That's what makes it rural. The poor areas that are being referenced are dense, urban places.
[–]w-4-wumbo 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Probably because the nearest people they could commit crimes against live a few miles away (instead of right next door) and honestly who has the time nowadays?
[–]jaredjeya 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Being in the middle of the countryside might reduce violence quite a bit (due to low population density)
[–]o0DrWurm0o 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
Rural Appalachia has its own share of serious issues, though.
[–]ayovita [score hidden]  (0 children)
We're not shooting each other with guns, we're using needles
[–]elartepubs 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
I wonder what's different between Rural Appalachia and inner cities? I wonder..
[–]absolutedesignz 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
population density?
[–]Medicius 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
Perhaps it's based on proximity to extreme wealth differences? Rural Appalachians measure their wealth based on others nearby (all poor by the national average). Whereas lower income areas we hear about in larger population centers have a closer proximity to high income areas.
Or maybe social media, access to internet, etc also exacerbates the issues by showing wealth differences?
[–]CatRelatedUsername -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Do you really think that rural whites aren't aware of how poor they are in comparison to the rest of the country?
[–]smittywjmj1 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Also a much lower population density
[–]CrabWalkinOnSunshine [score hidden]  (0 children)
Different cultures. The only issue we have in WV is people addicted to pills and abusing public aid.
[–]AnalogDan [score hidden]  (0 children)
What do YOU think the explanation for that is?
[–]The_cynical_panther -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
That's because they're all related and it's a sin to kill your family.
[–]chequilla 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
Being poor in Appalachia is not the same as being poor in Chicago
[–]CatRelatedUsername 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
If we're comparing levels of poverty, they're pretty comparable in some areas. Of the poorest counties in the entire United States, the overwhelming majority are either in rural Appalachia, or are Indian reservations.
[–]toclosetotheedge [score hidden]  (0 children)
People live miles apart in Appalachia making it hard to kill folks you have problems with and Indian reservations have a serious crime problem.
[–]UnoriginalRhetoric [score hidden]  (0 children)
Compare population density and income inequality for the area. Its hard to have a serious crime issue with incredibly low and spread out populations in the damn mountains.
[–]turkeypants 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
They's more critters involved.
[–]nightwolves -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
they are distracted by fucking their sisters
[–]whoops519 39 points40 points41 points  (0 children)
Exactly.
[–]makenzie71 9 points10 points11 points  (5 children)
Right. I grew up in a very poor, very white neighborhood (am also white). There were times when I hunted for food because I was hungry. Most of my acquaintances at the time did turn into delinquents...and I tried, myself, but didn't really fit in. What I want to know is if I could because a successful adult, why can't anyone else?
[–]notlodar 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
Not everyone who grows up in a bad situation ends up being a bad apple, but it doesn't help...
[–]makenzie71 -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
That implies that growing up poor is not really an excuse to be a bad apple.
[–]crashing_this_thread 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
Maybe your parents raised you well?
If your parents where as delinquent as your peers you might not be as lucky.
[–]makenzie71 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
lol my parents divorced when I was five and my mother is a drug-addict/hypochondriac...my father had to work real hard not to be a complete kleptomaniac, but he begged me to do as he taught and not use him as an example. They were both good people I think, but had serious faults. The guy my mother later married was a complete douche to me growing up and did nothing but try to break me spiritually and emotionally.
If it was a matter of nurture some of my friends should have turned out much better.
[–]HanJunHo -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Most people are idiots. Be glad if you figured out how to life properly. Many people struggle with basic decisions.
[–]DeceiverSC2 2 points3 points4 points  (4 children)
Being poor is a huge factor, but don't underestimate education which I would argue is the largest factor in 'predicting' crime.
[–]crashing_this_thread 2 points3 points4 points  (3 children)
Yes, and education in poor areas suffer immensely. Which reveals a flaw in how the education system is financed. If you are poor you'll most likely attend a shitty school.
[–]FJ_lord 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
It's not a flaw in how it's financed - to the contrary, many of these schools in dangerous neighborhoods get a hell of a lot of money.
It could be a problem with how its organized, what sort of programs they offer students, etc. But it's not just a 'finance' issue. They've already tried throwing money at the problem, that doesn't work.
[–]elartepubs 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
many of these schools in dangerous neighborhoods get a hell of a lot of money.
Got a source for that?
[–]FJ_lord 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Actually I do'nt. I read it somewhere ages ago and tried to find a source to back it up, but I can't. I was probably wrong.
[–]muchdogeisenseinyou 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
To the same degree though? I think many people in this thread are the people that "don't want to hear it".
[–]Zoesan 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
While true, there are roughly the same amount of white people below the poverty line as black people (in absolute numbers).
The issue is also a cultural one.
[–]Jaredlong 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Which is why none of those statistics listed are "100%"
[–]aperson1729 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I don't think "poor" is enough of an explanation. Being a poor person in, say, Oakland is different than being poor in some small town. One thing people don't take into account is how one rampant crime has encroached upon an area it becomes entrenched and can propagate itself for generations.
[–]elbenji 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Exactly, and the percentages don't reflect that due to rural poverty and low population density
[–]Snoopy_Hates_Germans 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
But it's very important to keep in mind that white people are not affected by poverty nearly to the degree that black people are in this country.
[–]spidereater [score hidden]  (0 children)
Not just that. But poor white people are more upwardly mobile. You take a poor white guy, shave him and put him in a nice suit and you have no idea how poor he is. He knows he just needs a big break and he can redeem his life. Take a black guy, send him to an Ivy League school get him a job on Wall Street and he still can't catch a cab in Manhattan. If he gets pull over in his expensive car he still gets hasselled because cops will assume it is stolen.
The poor white guy wants to keep his nose clean so he can take advantage of his big break. The poor black guy might as well be a criminal because he will be treated like one regardless. He has little incentive to stay out of trouble.
[–]MethCook 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
How big was the crime wave during the Great Depression?
[–]binarybandit 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
I thought white people didn't know what it was like to be poor. -Bernie Sanders
[–]FJ_lord 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
stupid
[–]WhiskeyCup 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I'd like to see some stats on whites only to find a correlation between average income, years of education, and criminal rate.
I'm 90% sure we'd see a direct negative correlation between education and criminality and a direct positive correlation between education and average income.
Then do this again but with blacks only. Stats might be different just because they're a significantly smaller population than whites and systemic prejudice, but I'm sure we'd still see a similar correlation.
[–]lenewnicemaymayman 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Using the 1979 cohort of the National Longitudinal Study of Youth to explore the interwoven links between race, wealth and incarceration, this study examines the data on race and wealth status before and after incarceration. Data indicate that although higher levels of wealth were associated with lower rates of incarceration, the likelihood of future incarceration still was higher for blacks at every level of wealth compared to the white likelihood, as well as the Hispanic likelihood, which fell below the white likelihood for some levels of wealth. Further, we find that racial wealth gaps existed among those who would be incarcerated in the future and also among the previously incarcerated.
Even the poorest whites do not commit crimes as frequently as blacks.
[–]Asha108 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
But commit less crime when you compare the two groups.
[–]imengun 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
There's way more poor white people than blacks yet they aren't anywhere near as violent. I personally blame thug culture and having to be hard and shoot people and whatever gangsters do.
[–]BartWellingtonson [score hidden]  (0 children)
But there are far more poor white people than black, yet we still have these disproportionate statistics. Culture must play a big role as well.
[–]ristorilsm [score hidden]  (0 children)
not nearly as delinquent , see Kentucky
[–]GeneralTomfoolery 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
Then why is West Virginia one of the poorest and whitest places in the country and one of the safest?
[–]panameboss 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
How many big cities can you name in West Virginia?
[–]TuriGuiliano 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Yes, but race has been intertwined with class through Housing discrimination, job discrimination, etc. which still continues today. You can't look at race without looking at class and vice-versa. Doing so ignores decades of recent history and centuries before that
[–]MelleniumFalcone -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
Nowhere near the rates of Blacks.
[–]DarkerDaze -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
But at lower rates as poor black people.
[–]GamblersAnonymous -8 points-7 points-6 points  (1 child)
White people love to get high and steal shit.
[–]crashing_this_thread 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
Well, delinquents of all colors love to get high and steal shit.
[–]RainbowDick 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
Socioeconomic status obviously plays a large role, but blacks also commit disproportionately more crime even when adjusting for income. http://i.imgur.com/sGynbw2.png
[–]kn0wF3AR 12 points13 points14 points  (0 children)
Not true. White children make up a larger percentage of poor in the US then any other race.
[–]2321N 157 points158 points159 points  (49 children)
I'd understand your point if it was just robberies that were so high relative to the population, but how is murdering and raping a survival tactic?
[–]sailorbrendan 324 points325 points326 points  (13 children)
It has a lot to do with the fact that "crime" is one of the most profitable industries in inner cities.
People join gangs for a lot of reasons, but mostly it boils down to security. Your gang protects you, and your gang employs you. In this way they're providing the bottom tier of the hierarchy of needs. They're how you pay your rent, they're how you buy your food, and they keep you safe.
Humans are amazingly territorial animals, and so gang rivalries are inevitable. Someone is on your turf, they're taking money out of your pocket and that money is how you eat, so you're going to get rid of them.
And because it's a black market, the only option is violence. Because violence is the only tool you have, your gang has to appear to be the toughest, reputation becomes more and more important so if someone "appears to be fronting" then you have to slap them down so they know you're serious.
and so it goes
[–]THAT_IS_MY_PORPOISE [score hidden]  (2 children)
The other aspect is the criminal lack of quality education that underprivileged communities receive. Lots of people from those communities literally don't know that stuff like that is wrong cause they were never taught it. It sucks l, like a lot.
[–]sailorbrendan [score hidden]  (1 child)
Oh, it's a super complex issue, without a doubt. I was just addressing the most superficial and easy to explain part
[–]THAT_IS_MY_PORPOISE [score hidden]  (0 children)
Totally yeah, I was agreeing with you.
[–]sodawoski 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
been reading some Vonnegut?
[–]sailorbrendan 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
Not recently, why?
[–]TheSkruid 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
"So it goes" is a repeated quote from his book Slaughterhouse-Five
[–]sailorbrendan 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
oh man, you're right. I didn't even think of that
[–]cyberslick188 2 points3 points4 points  (4 children)
How does this explain rape?
[–]sailorbrendan 19 points20 points21 points  (2 children)
We're talking about a society based on violence and dominance by virtue of its situation.
Where you see lots of violence and strife, you also tend to see a lot of rape
[–]mirror_1 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
I think you've got it.
When dominance becomes all-important, that's the root of all evil.
[–]ChannelSERFER [score hidden]  (0 children)
That's a pretty good way of putting it. It even extends to how much money in this society you can make if you are obsessed with making it. Money = dominance = root of all evil.
[–]Departments 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Rape is a crime.. When someone is in a criminal state of mind then other crimes are done. They're too far down the rabbit hole.
[–]whoops519 54 points55 points56 points  (18 children)
Rape is the one I can't justify, but murder is a big part of gang activity and drug trade, which are things people cling to when they have no money or security.
[–]jupitaur9 98 points99 points100 points  (12 children)
Rape is highly underreported and underprosecuted and underconvicted. The representation of Blacks is about double their population (33 prrcent vs 17 percent). Selective enforcement, prosecution and conviction could easily result in double the conviction rate.
It's a leakier pipeline for White criminals.
[–]alluringlion 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
So you just dismiss this statistic, really for no reason?
[–]MethCook 11 points12 points13 points  (9 children)
"It's a leakier pipeline for White criminals."
How do you know that? Is a white rape victim not more likely to report rape than a black rape victim?
[–]superpower4 -9 points-8 points-7 points  (2 children)
Black people get longer sentences so thats why more of them are in prison.
[–]TheBufordStick 13 points14 points15 points  (1 child)
No they dont.
The sentence disparity is a result of the number of priors.
[–]triplehelix_ 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
no, thats not true. blacks are more highly negatively impacted by the justice system at every step of the way, from likelihood to be initially charged, to likelihood of being convicted compared to white people.
what nobody wants to talk about is the fact that by the same criteria and analysis, men are even more highly negatively impacted (more likely to be prosecuted, convicted, etc) than women than blacks are compared to whites.
[–]megalurkeruygcxrtgbn -7 points-6 points-5 points  (5 children)
A white defendant is more likely to get off/a lighter sentence. But at the same time, I know of a situation where a black man had gotten away with it 4 times before they had what they needed to prosecute...and I still don't think he got much time.
[–]m4n715 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
Anecdotal evidence is worthless.
[–]TheWebCrusader 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
a situation
Well there you go
[–]superhobo666 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
A white defendant is more likely to get off/a lighter sentence.
Because the majority of arrested blacks already have a long record of bad behavior in schools or an existing criminal record/priors. It's almost like past behavior can be a good indicator of present/future behavior, especially when there are patterns in behavior spanning over years.
[–]triplehelix_ 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
the analysis was done on the federal system and accounted for priors.
[–]Exosan -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
I don't disagree that those are factors worth considering, but isn't any kid more likely to act out/be involved in criminal activity when he grew up in a crappy, violent neighborhood, went to crappy, underfunded schools, has very few, if any good male role models (because they're all in prison)? I absolutely don't condone violent activity and I do think it needs to be dealt with swiftly and firmly. I'm just pointing out that poor and minority people tend to get shunted into situations where it's a lot harder to win than it would be for middle-class/white folks.
[–]ShutItBobby 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
That has nothing to do with the percentages of rapes reported committed by each race. The FBI statistics on rape include reports by victims, not just convictions.
[–]WearTheFourFeathers 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
One idea is that the opportunity cost of crime is higher for people with better expected incomes--so someone who would otherwise go to college, earn a good income, etc etc will see any crime as a less appealing alternative because the relative "payoff" is less good. If your life prospects are bleak regardless, the opportunity cost of making impulsive decisions with potential massive consequences is lower.
In the instance of rape in particular, one would hope this calculus applies only to a small subset of men (the potential rapists), but it would still exist--presumably there are some amount wealthier people with violent urges who don't act on them because they have an intuitive or explicit understanding that doing so would be "costly" to them.
[–]Samoth95 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I'd say based on /u/sailorbrendan's comment that it could just be a byproduct of a more violent predisposition caused by the gang environment. When you're naturally all-around used to taking everything else by force (and have done so), you'd be more likely to take sex by force as well I'd imagine.
[–]AnyDemocratWillDo 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Rapists are often people who want to control others because they cannot control their own lives. No larger group of people that the impoverished for that. Couple that with the inability for them to protect themselves and the likelihood that the richer people won't tell because of the stigma and you get number gaps pretty quickly.
[–]dyre420 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I dont think a person who murder and robbs people for a living think twice about what the other person feels. So its not a big deal for that person to just rape someone.
[–]just_tweed 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Rape is about power. So disenfranchised men are a lot more likely to commit rape.
[–]forgetasitype 12 points13 points14 points  (1 child)
If you grow up watching violence happening it damages you. If you see people use violence to deal with problems, if you watch your parents physically fight with their partners, if the adults in your life hit you and sexually abuse you, if you see fights on the street, if you watch the men in your life treat women violently and like property, etc., etc., etc., you grow up believing violence is a part of life.
[–]Xavilistic 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Yes. And the schools in these areas struggle because handling children who come from these environments is difficult. The teachers have no resources to help them.
[–]BlatantConservative 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
Crime rates are generally high where other crimes are high. Its just generally ignoring the law and the police.
[–]trixie91 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
The economic situation doesn't cause the crime. A third factor or factors causes both the economic situation and the crime.
[–]noctrnalsymphony 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Having a violent reputation keeps you safe.
[–]MaesterMagoo 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I think it's because the stats are being misrepresented to support their point. Black men are more likely to be imprisoned for rape or murder because they are more likely to be poor.
[–]castiglione_99 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
If you look at the behavior of gangs, they behave pretty closely to the way warrior aristocrats behaved during the dawn of feudalism. The aristocrats basically ran a protection scheme whereby they promised farmers protection in return for some of the food the farmers produced. That's where it all began, but things evolved from there. In fact, most human societies evolved this way. The street gangs are basically warring tribes, or fiefs, battling for resources, or sometimes, to divert attention from something else. These wars can get brutal, thus the murders. The rapes, I don't know how to explain that, but when you enter into a mode where killing someone to survive somehow makes sense, and with killing being the ultimate taboo, it probably lowers one's inhibitions regarding other taboos (like rape).
[–]johnfrance 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
When you are in a situation of poverty the idea of consequence is far less heavy, also the lack of education plays a factor. Its definitely over-generalizing to say poor people only commit crimes out of the need to survive poverty, the way poverty begets crime is far bigger and more complicated but since people are so resistant to the idea of people's behaviour being predominantly the result of their environment it's easier to focus on the part 'that's for survival'. Truth is, when you live in a situation where you feel so detached from the society at large, and that what happens there has nothing to do with you here, a lack of any hope for any future etc. For some the 'rules' of society can slip away, cuz they know they are going to get arrested and got to jail for something eventually so who cares if I do this bad thing. It's a big reason for trying as hard as we can get keep everybody in the social loop of society and poverty is one of the biggest things stopping that from happening.
[–]StealthTomato 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
More affluent perpetrators of rape are convicted at extremely low rates due to better legal representation, difficulty of obtaining good evidence, and non-cooperation (or simply giving up) of victims. It also probably happens in different situations.
[–]Judge_Bredd2 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
This is what I saw growing up. If you're black and live in an impoverished neighborhood your choices are join a temp agency and get work maybe every other month at some warehouse doing menial work for $10/hr. Except the temp agency gets to keep $3/hr, so you're only getting $7/hr.
And that's only if you didn't get in trouble over some minor drug offense in high school. You know, the kind of thing a kid in the suburb gets a warning for. These guys would go to jail and get probation for that. Good luck with the temp agency now, they'll just hire some Mexicans instead (That's me!).
But you have to support yourself somehow so you get into hustling drugs, stealing cars, or just plain ol' robbery. At first it's easy to say you're just doing this to live but eventually it becomes revenge. Nobody I've talked to carjacks or robs stores for fun. They do it because they've been forced into that position. It wears you down to the point you literally don't care about much of anything anymore. Your life is paramount, the lives of others... well they matter about as much as you see your life mattering to the people in charge. The people who would see you steal or starve rather than give you a chance in society.
It's an interesting mentality and coming from a suburbs background myself it was a real wake up call when I moved to a ghetto and started working these temp jobs to support myself. The people I met gave me a whole new perspective on the situation and I can see how easy it is to fall into it now. I met some people who were remorseful, but for the most part said they'd do it again because the only other choice was homelessness.
[–]Exosan 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
eh....one could argue that once you've got a felony record, finding a job becomes naught but impossible and felon disenfranchisement/social stigma labels you as a 'bad person'....you start to become a bad person. Anger and aggression and hopelessness builds up and you become more the monster, more likely to say 'fuck it, I do what I want regardless of the consequences'.
Not sure about this one, TBH, but maybe.
[–]TestiCallSack [score hidden]  (1 child)
So you honestly believe that black people are just inherently criminals? That its in their genes?
[–]callist1990 [score hidden]  (0 children)
In psychology there are theories of life strategy. I read about it more than a year ago (and I am way too lazy right now to find out more), so this is my best shot at remembering it: If you have a pretty good life growing up and your situation is generally safe, you employ a different strategy than if you've had a bad childhood and are in an unsafe situation. I say "employ" but this happens mainly if not completely without conscious knowledge. Bad experiences and bad situation (bad past and bad present) influences how a person thinks the future will turn out (in this case, likely bad) so they tailor their survival strategies (personal as well as genetic) to this - e.g. girls have kids very young and go for more dangerous males (who might be a danger to them but can also protect them). Similarly, young men might join gangs and be more likely to commit crimes etc. - short-sighted strategies in general which of course hurt them in cultures that emphasize the ability to commit to long-term strategies like getting a years-long education.
[–]loondawg -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
It's probably not as much a survival tactic as it is one associated with the frustration and despair of being at the wrong end of a society with grossly out of proportion income inequality.
[–]4ray -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Raping is very much a genetic survival tactic.
[–]MelleniumFalcone 3 points4 points5 points  (2 children)
So we should blame everyone except the perpetrators?
[–]whoops519 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
No, blame the perpetrators. Just don't blame the entire race.
[–]MelleniumFalcone 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Why not? you don't see the same crime stats in other poverty stricken racial demographics. Doesn't that suggest that black culture has a unique disposition to violence?
[–]zdrav0 28 points29 points30 points  (27 children)
We were refugees from the Bosnian war, came to NA with PTSD from running across the road to avoid the sniper fire, had almost no money to our name, hardly spoke english, and yet didn't commit crimes. I don't know of any of us that was criminal, even though we were in a much more disadvantaged position than the blacks. Why the difference?
[–]fille_du_nord 18 points19 points20 points  (0 children)
What was your cultural and personal upbringing like before the war? If you came from a strong sense of community, with reasonable schooling and upbringing then you had a foundation that someone who comes from systematic poverty and violence doesn't.
[–]Probakyyeah 17 points18 points19 points  (7 children)
You're one family, one case. It's a much smaller sample size than 33 million people.
[–]tdy12 2 points3 points4 points  (6 children)
Yet blacks stand out, you don't see those crime stats with other minorities.
His stats are also false, since there are more poor white people than black people in the US. And even poor whites and asians have MUCH lower crime rates.
There absolutely is a cultural problem with black people.
[–]GaBeRockKing [score hidden]  (5 children)
Here's white/black/hispanic income by race. As you can see, blacks have it worse than the other two large racial groups. And since every other racial group combined only make up about 8% of the united states, it's likely blacks have, on average, some of the worst socioeconomic statuses.
His stats are also false, since there are more poor white people than black people in the US. And even poor whites and asians have MUCH lower crime rates.
Can you provide a source for this?
But regardless, it's refuted earlier in the thread-- like tends to live with like, so people of one race tend to live with other people of the same race. That means that even poor whites will live in predominantly white areas, which tend to be richer than predominantly black areas, and therefore have better education which leads to reduced crime.
[–]tdy12 [score hidden]  (4 children)
Here's white/black/hispanic income by race. As you can see, blacks have it worse than the other two large racial groups. And since every other racial group combined only make up about 8% of the united states, it's likely blacks have, on average, some of the worst socioeconomic statuses.
Wrong,they only have it marginally worse yet commit WAY more crime.
But regardless, it's refuted earlier in the thread-- like tends to live with like, so people of one race tend to live with other people of the same race. That means that even poor whites will live in predominantly white areas, which tend to be richer than predominantly black areas, and therefore have better education which leads to reduced crime.
Hahaha, no it's absolutely not refuted.
It's also pretty idiotic and completely wrong to say that poor whites live with rich whites.
[–]GaBeRockKing [score hidden]  (3 children)
You know what? I'm not going to try arguing with you. You won't post sources, and you clearly just want to believe that black people are inferior to whites.
[–]tdy12 [score hidden]  (2 children)
Well, you didn't post any sources yourself, just wrongfully claimed "it has been disproven lol".
Fact is, there is a major problem in black culture and it will not be fixed until we can address it, people like you are the worst because you are the reason it wont be fixed.
[–]GaBeRockKing [score hidden]  (1 child)
Well, you didn't post any sources yourself, just wrongfully claimed "it has been disproven lol".
Did you not even look at my links? You're being willfully ignorant of the fact.
Fact is, there is a major problem in black culture and it will not be fixed until we can address it, people like you are the worst because you are the reason it wont be fixed.
You don't even bother addressing what the problem is. I think the problem is a lack of educational opportunities and bad socioeconomic status. You just seem to think that the problem is scary black people.
people like you are the worst because you are the reason it wont be fixed.
As opposed to you, who thinks everyone should have the exact same culture because other cultures are scary?
[–]whoops519 10 points11 points12 points  (13 children)
Not all disadvantaged blacks are criminals. Those who are, though, were born and raised in a community of violence. If the only successful person in your community is a violent drug lord, you will aspire to be that person. If every kid you know is in a gang, you'll join one too. What seems like unfathomable violence and immoral activity is everyday life for kids who were born into it generation after generation.
[–]zdrav0 10 points11 points12 points  (11 children)
They weren't born into violence, they don't know violence. They don't know about sleeping on the floor with the lights off so someone doesn't throw a grenade into your window, they don't know their fellow people being killed as they line up for bread, a bridge being bombed by people you used to call your neighbours..
my grandparents were killed in their home, and yet I'm not a violent person
[–]nomogoodnames 8 points9 points10 points  (6 children)
There is not a full steam ahead media machine that profits off of inviting you to be violent and hateful.
The hatred in America is fuelled by the media that profits off of it. Instead of anybody asking why a black kid gets beaten to death if his peers think he acts white, they sum it all up as tragedy being caused by racist white america.
What really needs to be addressed is the racism and hatred in black communities. The "us versus them" mentality is too fucking strong, too fucking ignored, and too much fuel is given to it by the liberal morons who still want to act like the situation is clearly the same as it was in the 1960's.
[–]GabrielGray 1 point2 points3 points  (5 children)
The "us versus them" mentality is too fucking strong, too fucking ignored,
and too much fuel is given to it by the liberal morons
Oh god, the irony
It's too much
[–]nomogoodnames 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
It's not ironic if you understand the difference between having a nation-wide sentiment against white racism that fuels media broadcasts which decry white racism in every corner of the world, which fuels angry black racists; and having an issue with the nation-side sentiment because it is entirely willing to justify the most radical actions because of the paranoid sentiments against white racism being worse.
I'm well aware that being against liberals is the same as seeing it as "u.s. versus them", but I'm not going to beat the shit out of my peers because they are liberals. So *fuck off.
Edit: *-kindly
[–]GabrielGray -2 points-1 points0 points  (3 children)
fuels angry black racists
TIL that if you hate pro-white racism you're the racist
I'm well aware that being against liberals is the same as seeing it as "u.s. versus them", but I'm not going to beat the shit out of my peers because they are liberals. So fuck off.
TIL It's not "us vs. them" unless violence is involved
[–]nomogoodnames 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
See, hating white racism is fine. Hating white people and hunting down police and firing at white people with automatic weapons and planting bombs in major cities is crazed black racism. But if you support that fucking shit, there is tragically nothing I can do but hope for a God so that you burn in hell.
Also, "us versus them" is a pretty tough mentality to completely avoid. Excessive, rabid, violent adherence to the mentality is EXCESSIVE.
You should check yourself for being a rabid SJW with no common sense. You're a moron with nothing but sarcastic bullshit to try and justify homegrown terrorism in the United States. I hope all of your ancestors are actually watching over you, so they know who tarnished their family name.
[–]Valkyrie21 4 points5 points6 points  (3 children)
Many in fact were born into violence. Take urban cities such as Detroit or St. Louis where gangs run rampant and are at a constant war with one another. Places like these are known to have shootouts and drive-by shootings and it's been going on for decades.
[–]zdrav0 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
That's just a tad different from bombed out buildings and sniper fire like this - http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2012/04/20-years-since-the-bosnian-war/100278/
Drive bys only occur between rival gangs largely, so if you don't get into the gang life, no worries
[–]ukulelej[🍰] 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
so if you don't get into the gang life, no worries
Bullshit. There have been tons of people caught in the crossfire of gang wars. Even children aren't safe from them.
[–]Valkyrie21 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
While it is very different from what people in war-torn countries go through, it's incorrect to suggest that they don't experience other forms of violence at all on a day to day basis. Once again this stuff has been going on for many years and although I don't have the current evidence to back this up (I'm lazy and on mobile) I'm under the impression that criminals and most other people in these areas suffer from undiagnosed and untreated mental illnesses.
It's also odd to believe that people outside of gang life go unarmed.
[–]shakethetroubles 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
You have to understand you're on reddit, and the liberal chant is that if you're in a poor population, violence will increase, and there are no other contributing factors. They don't understand the concept of a poorer, yet non-violent population because of good culture. Black culture in the USA celebrates violence, the degradation of women, values material things over basically anything else, highly racist overtones, among others. Even if the wealth and prosperity and education in black communities across the USA increased substantially, violence won't change until the culture changes. Until we start holding rap artists accountable for saying "I got a white bitch to the side" or "I put a bullet in his brain because he looked at me sideways". The younger generations hear it, see the adults accepting that material, and grow up with validation that these things are appropriate. But not every country in the world has that culture. Many underclass communities, or rural communities, or low educated communities do just fine without the violence because their culture is structured in a way that inherently disapproves of these things. Not all poorer populations share those values. Many do, but not all.
[–]zdrav0 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
You'd think people in shitty situations would try to help one another. We did, we would give anything to our friends and neighbours. It's sad that the USA black culture (at least in the rap areas, I have educated black friends that would never think like this) they try to one up each other instead of helping each other. Maybe they do help one another, but the external view is that they dont.
[–]mrminty [score hidden]  (1 child)
I mean, disregarding that you haven't told us where in the U.S. you settled, I would argue that your lack of connection with the community meant you were less likely to resort to crime. Did you move into an established neighborhood full of other people who spoke Bosnian who were already committing crimes, giving you the incentives and connections to join them? I'm a stereotypical Redditor white dude in his 20s, and I would probably have an easier time than you joining a gang (read: not an easy time at all) simply because I at least have a language and some social mores in common. It's a false equivalence, many gang members were brought up inside of the gang system, by gang members, with the expectation they would become gang members, so they became gang members. That's why, social expectations. Without those it seems you're far less likely to fall into the trap.
[–]zdrav0 [score hidden]  (0 children)
I did settle into an area where a lot of Bosnians also settled but we never committed crime. Even during the war we would never dream of breaking into places even though we didn't have food. If you needed help all you had to do was ask and people would help.
Good point on social expectations and the resulting path their life would take. If my parents weren't educated I'd be less likely to go to university.
[–]Rorschach31 5 points6 points7 points  (6 children)
I don't consider violent crime to be necessary for survival, regardless of class. Most criminals aren't stealing bread to feed their family, and the safety net in America removes the necessity of crime for the vast majority of poor folks.
[–]whoops519 -4 points-3 points-2 points  (5 children)
It's not about stealing to literally provide -- it's about getting involved with organized crime to make more than the bare minimum, because frankly, one can't survive forever on the bare minimum.
[–]Rorschach31 5 points6 points7 points  (4 children)
But I don't have much sympathy for that decision. Become a member of a criminal organization and commit acts of violence, just to get more than the bare minimum?
If you're making the bare minimum, however you define it, and you decide to do horrible things just to get more money, you're a terrible person.
[–]whoops519 -1 points0 points1 point  (3 children)
It's definitely not pretty, but I'm not going to pass judgement because I am not in that situation. People are inherently selfish. Privileged people may take different kinds of risks to make more money, ones that are considered more legal or moral -- but even some of the rich type break the law to make more: money laundering, tax evasion, pyramid schemes. The violent crimes of the poor black community are their own brand of Wall Street scandals.
[–]Rorschach31 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
I get what you're saying, and I'd say that if you steal from others to make money, you're a terrible person, regardless of class. I've been poor, I've been on every bit of assistance you can be on. But you don't have to be a dirt farmer to know that hurting people for money is bad, no matter how much you need the money.
And, as a side note, I could understand if you equated non-violent crimes to Wall Street scandals, but not violent ones. I don't think committing fraud is the same as bashing someone's skull in to take their wallet.
[–]BeardedThor 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
Well I think the difference here is that whoever raised you actually gave a shit and wasn't selfish.
[–]Rorschach31 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Well... I wouldn't say that. But I ended up alright in the end.
[–]ham_dog 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
Not a justification to go around murdering people.
[–]whoops519 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
It's not a justification, it's an explanation.
[–]mclane_ 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
'I'm tired of being poor and even worse I'm black, my stomach hurts so I'm lookin for a purse to snatch' - tupac
[–]Steelstruck 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
Blacks also make up the majority of the extremely poor in America
Source? There are more white Americans living below the poverty line than black Americans.
[–]imveryfuckedup 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
His ass and his narrative.
[–]linderpreet 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Er, I'm pretty sure rape isn't essential for ones survival. Nor are many of the murders. Further, these stats don't include how many people get shot and DON'T die. The stories I've heard from both the victims and the shooter (who I often see because they were also wounded somehow) are so ridiculous they're sort of ....comical. And petulant. Someone said something mean about your girlfriend, so the solution is, shoot that person? In the head? I mean, come the fuck on.
Source: am anesthesiologist in major metro hospital, have seen it all.
[–]DarkerDaze 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
They have also created a culture that glorifies violence, criminality, and disrespecting authority as well as undercutting education and sensibility.
[–]whoops519 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
Have you seen an inner city school? I worked with a program that provided aid to high-risk public schools and I can understand why they devalue education. In America, poor areas get utterly terrible public education.
[–]DarkerDaze 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Thug culture devalues education regardless of their school conditions.
Asians came from similar educational backgrounds (50 years prior). China towns existed only to contain them. They had no access to basic resources such as education. Yet, because their culture put education as the pinnacle of success, they have the highest standardized test scores and median incomes.
At some point, you have to play the cards you were dealt.
[–]rSRSMOD 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
You're apologizing for degeneracy. You're part of the problem keeping blacks poor, ignorant, lazy, and violent. Well, I take that back. I wouldn't call 4% of the population putting up numbers like that lazy.. They're hard at work, just not doing anything productive. It's a double edged sword though. Would you rather have blacks who thin their own herd and kill a relatively minor number of white people, or blacks who build and succeed, and eventually breed white people out of the gene pool?
[–]Ben__Chereb 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Your point is right but worded wrong. There are roughly equal number of impoverished whites as blacks but it's a greater percentage of the overall black population
[–]ulver026 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
This is false, what information do you have to show that black people are actually the majority of poor people in america?
[–]BreakingCascadia 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
There are more white people living below the poverty line in the US than there are black people of any class.
Black people already have access to government housing, food stamps, welfare, education and government healthcare programs, if they were ever going to change then they would have already done so. No excuses.
Is also point out that none of what you listed is remotely applicable to the UK but they still behave the same way over here while other ethnic minorities are essentially leaving them behind because they actually make use of what's available while blacks do not.
[–]sunwukong155 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
If this is true why is affirmative action based on race and not income or class?
[–]twsmith 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Blacks also make up the majority of the extremely poor in America.
Blacks make up about 25% of the poor in America. I don't know what your definition of "extremely" poor is. Do you have statistics?
[–]ReddJudicata 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Whites make up a majority of the extremely poor, actually.
[–]Sallyrockswroxy 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I call bullshit on it being the only method of survival. Especially in the areas they're concentrated kn. They can work minimum wage and live fine.
[–]FushnabKebab 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Well to be honest rape isn't needed for Survival
[–]adfaeaefddf 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
thats not true. there are more than twice as many whites in poverty than blacks
[–]johnfrance 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Only if occupy and BLM could get together, share notes, and become an intersectional movement for real class struggle
[–]dill_pickles 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Blacks also make up the majority of the extremely poor in America.
Is this true? In America, there are twice as many white people living in poverty than there are black people living in poverty.
[–]Drugsrhugs 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
It's not genetic, but after this happens they sometimes fuck up raising their kids and make them shitty people too. The shit Apple doesn't fall far from the shit tree, Rick.
[–]Mr_Munchausen 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
It would be interesting to see the crime rate statistics, but using wealth instead of race.
[–]plspirit 8 points9 points10 points  (3 children)
and 3% of all blacks killed by police are unarmed, just like 3% of whites who are killed by police are unarmed
[–]whatxor 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
It is also interesting to note that you are more likely to be killed by the police if you are white.
[–]Bombuhclaat [score hidden]  (1 child)
Don't the sample sizes kinda ruin this "fact"?
[–]TheBufordStick [score hidden]  (0 children)
Not really, if you factor in the crime rates.
[–]SoSaltyDoe 87 points88 points89 points  (21 children)
It should at least be noted that this is based on conviction rates, which shouldn't necessarily be used to determine actual crimes being committed. If you commit a crime or possess drugs in a highly affluent neighborhood, you're considerably less likely to get caught.
[–]irumeru 34 points35 points36 points  (12 children)
Murder is the best crime to look at because there is virtually no police discretion. Cops HAVE to deal with a dead body.
Jaywalking, even light shoplifting, cops can look the other way.
[–]EdgarAllanNope_ 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Having lived in ghettos and in suburbs, people can pretend all they want but murder rates are definitely way higher in the ghetto.
[–]neutron1 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Maybe more than other crimes, but that doesn't tell the complete story. Approximately 33% of murders are unsolved - I don't want to speculate on whether a situation with a black murder victim or black murderer are more or less likely to go unsolved than other races, though http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-third-of-murders-in-america-go-unresolved
and this doesn't account for murders that lead to incorrect arrests. Based on studies on convictions based on race, I suspect that black people are more often the victims of false murder convictions than other races.
But even then, looking at murder alone as an indication of race and criminality is likely to lead to wrong or misleading conclusions. Black people are more often poor and more often live in more densely populated areas. That sort of situation likely makes violent crimes disproportionately more likely than say, property crimes.
[–]pinkeyeofthetiger 5 points6 points7 points  (5 children)
Cops do have to deal with it but that doesn't mean that the conviction and incarceration rates are the same. For example, "affluenza teen," Ethan Couch got ten years probation and therapy for killing four people while drunk driving. It's willful ignorance to say that wealthy white people aren't treated differently than poorer non-whites in the eyes of the law.
[–]irumeru 2 points3 points4 points  (4 children)
Disparate sentencing is a major issue, but in that case we do have a conviction, which still allows us to correlate statistics.
[–]OfficerMudkip [score hidden]  (3 children)
He was convicted of manslaughter, while us normies would most likely get a murder charge for killing four people while driving drunk with a restricted license
[–]heidismiles [score hidden]  (2 children)
Not really. Murder by definition has to have intent. A car accident -- drunk or no -- does not equate to intentional murder.
But you're absolutely right on the broader point you are making.
[–]OfficerMudkip [score hidden]  (1 child)
Some states, such as California, can charge you with murder if you kill somebody while driving drunk and you have a previous DUI
[–]heidismiles [score hidden]  (0 children)
I did not know that.
[–]Rev_Jim_lgnatowski 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
It's a lot easier to not be convicted if you can afford a good lawyer and your own expert witnesses.
[–]nod9 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
Thats explains some of it. But 53% of all murders while just 7% of the population? Thats still miles off of just "they cant afford good lawyers". I dont care how good your lawyer, our legal system just isnt that fucked up.
[–]Rev_Jim_lgnatowski [score hidden]  (0 children)
If you read through the other comments, you'll get a better idea about the socioeconomic and historical factors at play. However yea, our legal system is pretty screwed up. If you choose to do some reading on it, you might be surprised.
[–]SoSaltyDoe 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
They do have to deal with a dead body, but a lot of those cases simply go unsolved. Families of murder victims often resort to posting rewards and billboards to get more information, because there is only so much that the law can do.
It should be noted that around a third of all murders go unsolved. And those are just the instances in which bodies are found. A missing person's case isn't considered murder.
[–]avian_buddha 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
If you commit a crime or possess drugs in a highly affluent neighborhood, you're considerably less likely to get caught.
Except that those are the neighborhoods which the police focus on. Police care about crime in affluent neighborhoods. That implies that if you commit a crime in a well-policed, affluent area, you're more likely to get caught.
That's also why there's so much more crime in poor areas. Police can't focus their efforts there. Which also means that a lot of those crimes don't get caught.
[–]SoSaltyDoe [score hidden]  (1 child)
Depends on what you mean by "focus on" when it comes to more affluent neighborhoods. Stop-and-frisk was never an issue in an upscale neighborhood. People get pulled over less often for minor traffic infractions, and have their cars searched less.
I can't find actual sources, so I'll resort to the anecdotes here, but I've lived in very poor areas and the higher-end suburbs. In the poor areas, I got pulled over many many times, always had my car searched too. My tag light would be "out" only to miraculously cut back on by the time I was actually able to get out and look at it. I couldn't take a single turn without a police officer around.
On the flipside, living in the richer area I rarely ever saw an officer at all, maybe one here and there making routine patrols. Never got so much as a glance from any of them either. In fact, I was (stupidly) driving home drunk one night and got pulled over. The cops just waited until I could get someone to come pick me up, didn't want to see what was in the car at all. I have no doubt in my mind that if I were pulled over for drinking and driving in my old neighborhood, that I'd be spending the night downtown.
[–]CivilServiced [score hidden]  (0 children)
Thank you. u/avian_buddha had it almost exactly backwards. Crime stats are horribly skewed based on enforcement.
[–]CivilServiced -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Yes. The real fact people don't want to hear is that these stats don't actually reflect crimes committed. Nobody tracks all crimes committed.
Edit: and of course, in a thread about statistics, this gets downvoted. Stormfront is still a thing, apparently.
[–]penceinyapants [score hidden]  (2 children)
Victimization reports tend to match up with conviction rates etc.
[–]SoSaltyDoe [score hidden]  (1 child)
Not in regards to drug-related crimes, where for all intents and purposes there's no singular victim.
[–]penceinyapants [score hidden]  (0 children)
If you go look at the national victimization survey. The numbers for violent crimes tend to match up with the uniform crime report. I don't care about drug crimes we weren't talking about drug crimes. The op you replied to was talking about violent crime.
[–]titich 62 points63 points64 points  (27 children)
I'm glad we have a platform to state things without being silenced by political correctness; emotion shouldn't trump logic and facts. To that end, I don't believe it's a class issue or a race issue, it's a gender issue.
Consider the following, in just the U.S. alone:
Among young people, men kill 10x more than women.
Men are more likely to be repeat offenders, to cause more property manage, inflict the most severe injuries, to join gangs, and to be long term career criminals.
Whatever the case may be, we need to have a sit down talk about male culture and its problems, without throwing out buzzwords like "sexist". Statistics and science don't lie. And they can CLEARLY never be biased, or manipulated into portraying a narrative that isn't true.
[–]mlwep [score hidden]  (1 child)
I don't believe it's a class issue or a race issue, it's a gender issue.
Why does it have to be just one?
[–]malcatmewmew [score hidden]  (0 children)
It isn't, and it doesn't, but people like to pursue a narrative that fits their narrow world view and benefits them most, so they fixate on the one thing that their personal experience and bias confirms.
The reality is that statistics are just numbers, and show a correlation, with no indication of the actual cause of the issue.
[–]rundmcarlson [score hidden]  (0 children)
While this may be true, it still shows how alarmingly high the statistics for black men are. If half the population is committing basically all the crimes (high 80-90%), isn't it alarming that just 7% is responsible for half of it? That means that roughly 42% of the male population commits 45% of the crime, while the other 7% commits the remaining 55%. Nothing about most crime being perpetrated by men mitigates how substantial the black male percentage is.
[–]majinspy [score hidden]  (0 children)
And if I'm being followed by a man or a woman, it's a man who will make me more nervous. Men are, generally speaking, more violent than women. If I was a cop, I'd be a bit more afraid of getting beat up by a man, than a woman.
And if I was a cop and pulled over a young black man in a car last made in the 1990's, in a rough part of town, I'm going to be more on edge than when I pull over a 2015 Cadillac with "Soccer mom" stickers and being driven by a white lady. That's reality :\
[–]Bolt80 [score hidden]  (0 children)
It's probably all three tbh.
[–]abv4rddd [score hidden]  (2 children)
Haha this is certainly a post that Reddit doesn't want to hear.
It's going to be interesting to see how your post will be handwaved away. Will it be ignored? Will it be downvoted? Will posters exercise some impressive mental gymnastics?
So many possibilities!
[–]VoteRonaldRayGun [score hidden]  (1 child)
It's a converted copy pasta from Stormfront, with stats about men instead of black Americans.
The post this is in response to is also from Stormfront, notice the sources haven't linked properly because they copy/pasted.
[–]smackfairy [score hidden]  (0 children)
It very clearly is lol. Of course it is upvoted. There is no context at all, just bare statistics. Classic stormfront.
[–]bdonvr [score hidden]  (12 children)
I want to express concern about that rape statistic.
I'm a guy who has been raped, but my case got dropped in a grand jury. It's hard to convince a surprising amount of people that men can be raped.
[–]UnoriginalRhetoric [score hidden]  (9 children)
The vast majority of rape cases never reach a conviction.
Say hello to equality my boy.
[–]dpash [score hidden]  (8 children)
That's a pretty shitty response to someone who's just said they were raped.
[–]UnoriginalRhetoric [score hidden]  (7 children)
Probably a false rape accusation.
I thought men wanted equal rights, but clearly they just want superiority.
[–]bdonvr [score hidden]  (6 children)
Fuck you buddy
[–]malcatmewmew [score hidden]  (0 children)
Don't pay it any attention, my friend. I'm a fellow male survivor of rape, and I can tell you I've never seen a room full of women get quieter than when they are ranting about sexism/rape culture and you bring the subject up.
We're outliers to them, and completely inconsequential. Just remember that the majority of men and women are reasonable, and it's only the loud insane fringe that want to make you miserable for having the audacity to have been raped.
That person responding to you is just a sad individual who has no outlet for their suffering besides to try and make other's miserable. Don't even bother getting angry; there's no real point.
[–]UnoriginalRhetoric comment score below threshold[score hidden]  (4 children)
I bet you were wearing something really slutty and just had regrets. Why were you trying to ruin that girls life just because you decided you didn't want to have sex later?
Also, you are a teenager. When exactly in your short life did you go in front of grand jury, eh? Interested how this has never come up before until now.
In essence, quit the worlds most obvious bullshit.
[–]Thor_pool [score hidden]  (0 children)
"Some men are assholes to female rape victims, so Im gonna be an asshole to this male rape victim."
Go fuck yourself, you piece of shit. Youre no better than the people you think youre sticking it to.
[–]bdonvr [score hidden]  (2 children)
You don't fucking know me, you sit behind a screen and tell me about my fucking life, judge me through my reddit profile, really?
You wanna know, it was a much older person.
[–]UnoriginalRhetoric [score hidden]  (1 child)
You tried to ruin an older person's life by lying?
That is sick. Men always regret sex later and then try to get the person arrested because they feel bad.
[–]sosern [score hidden]  (1 child)
Why did you want to express concern? Women don't have 100% conviction rates for their rapists either.
[–]bdonvr [score hidden]  (0 children)
I'm just saying it might be even lower than that, but I cannot prove it.
[–]FUCKBOY_JIHAD [score hidden]  (1 child)
now there's some facts that nobody HERE wants to hear
[–]TheBufordStick [score hidden]  (0 children)
What?
Why does anyone care? It's accurate. I'm male.
[–]dpash [score hidden]  (0 children)
it may be because boys experience stunted growth in empathy in adolescence,
Is this not a social construct?
[–]Pyrate999 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Finally, someone willing to address the real issues here.
[–]Reddit_isAstr0turfed [score hidden]  (0 children)
Are you implying that people don't know men are naturally more horny and violent? That's true and obvious. It's also true and obvious that black men commit far more crime than their proportion of the population. Look up the stats or go to your local ghetto at night. Anecdotal or statistical information, all reflect the same truths.
[–]levels-to-this [score hidden]  (0 children)
Finally, a real post. It's not sexist if it's true.
[–]MagicSPA 31 points32 points33 points  (92 children)
I wonder what those stats are like if we ONLY consider people below a certain income level.
Just so we can be sure whether it's poverty or some other factor that's really the problem.
[–]Petey_Stevens 58 points59 points60 points  (50 children)
The studies have been done and have shown whites and other ethnicities who are extremely poor do have an uptick in crime, but nowhere near the level of crime in the black community.
Jared Taylor and Stefan Molynuex have a great video on it.
[–]ShowMeYourBunny 4 points5 points6 points  (35 children)
No kidding? Can you find that, because that sounds extremely interesting. That might change my world view completely - I've always assumed economic status was the over riding factor and once you control for it everyone would be more or less equal.
[–]TheBufordStick 29 points30 points31 points  (24 children)
Look at West Virginia. It's extremely poor (always bottom 3 with Arkansas and Mississippi) yet also has a low violent crime rate. It's 97% white.
[–]The_cynical_panther 10 points11 points12 points  (2 children)
Most of West Virginia is also rural.
[–]TheBufordStick 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
So is Mississippi and Arkansas.
[–]bomalong 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
WV has 5 towns with more than 20k people, MS has 19, AK has 22. They are not comparable.
[–]CallMeNiel 3 points4 points5 points  (3 children)
How does the wealth disparity look in that area? Most of the high crime, poor, black areas that leap to my mind are in the same vicinity as much more affluent cities. Could it be that being poor but surrounded by other poor people is less likely to lead to a life of crime?
[–]TheBufordStick 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
The GINI coefficient is middle of the pack in the united states.
[–]zambezy 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Could it be that being poor but surrounded by other poor people is less likely to lead to a life of crime?
Why would that be so?
[–]superhobo666 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Could it be that being poor but surrounded by other poor people is less likely to lead to a life of crime?
If that were the case crime would me much lower in inner city low income areas would it not?
[–]ifyourheadexplodes 15 points16 points17 points  (25 children)
Even if you adjust for poverty, blacks still commit far more violent crime, robberies and rapes than whites. It's a cultural problem, not a socioeconomic one.
[–]androgynousautomaton 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I'd like to see that.
[–]zambezy 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
It is likely a combination of socioeconomic status, cultural norms, and parental guidance
[–]thisoneoptimistic 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
Was waiting for the white supremacist copypasta. Statistics devoid of context
[–]monk3yboy305 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
I love that a Stormfront and CoonTown copy pasta got gilded on Reddit.
[–]50calPeephole 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
Forgot that if you are a black male and have been shot there is a 93% chance that you were shot by another black male. Source is the FBI again (mobile, no link). :\
[–]JustLetMeComment 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I didn't have the courage to post this. Good on you.
[–]Man_of_Many_Voices [score hidden]  (0 children)
This should be higher. It's statistical facts that nobody wants to hear.
Which is probably why it's being downvoted, lol.
[–]petesapai 15 points16 points17 points  (68 children)
  • blacks made up nearly 40% of the total prison population, despite being only 12% of the general population.
At first glance. This stat seems racially motivated. But then you read the stats below and it starts to make sense. Unless I'm reading this wrong.
  • Blacks commit 53% of all murder, despite being only 12% of the population.
  • Despite making up less than 7% of the US population, black males commit 1 in every 3 rapes.
Edit : I didn't mean the stat(or poster) is racially motivated, I meant that I thought that the root of the problem was racially motivated.
[–]sailorbrendan 105 points106 points107 points  (63 children)
Sure, but then you deal with the fact that white folks and black folks smoke pot at pretty equal rates but the majority of black folks in prison for non-violent pot related crimes is much higher.
[–]FreydyCat 39 points40 points41 points  (19 children)
No, more blacks were arrested for other crimes while possessing drugs and the drug charges were added on.
[–]SCHOJO 1 point2 points3 points  (4 children)
But here you also have to take into account that sentencing depends on prior criminal record. You are more likely to be incarcerated for pot related crimes if you have a two burglaries and an assault on your record.
[–]sailorbrendan 8 points9 points10 points  (3 children)
Everything that I've seen says that if you have two people accused of similar crimes with similar histories the minority suspect is more likely to be convicted and is likely to have a harsher sentence
[–]brother_nero1 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
Where have you seen this?
[–]zambezy 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
This stat seems racially motivated
Stats cannot be "racially motivated" Stats are objective facts. They cannot be racist. They cannot have an agenda. They are just words and numbers.
[–]cansml 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Men make up 50% of the population but are responsible for 90.5% of murders.
Men make up 50% of the population, but are responsible for 80% of arrests for most crime.
Men make up 50% of the population, but are responsible for 88% of violent crime and 95% of new court commitments for violent offenses.
Men make up 50% of the population, but are nine times for likely to be incarcerated.
Men make up 50% of the population, but are responsible for 85% of domestic violence cases.
It's not that I hate men, but facts are facts. Men just didn't evolve to be capable of higher thinking like women did. They evolved to be violent and hunt mammoths. Now that's not their fault, but we have to say no to political correctness and admit once and for all men are unfit for modern society. I'm not sexist I'm a gender realist.
[–]Smalmart 5 points6 points7 points  (9 children)
I didn't want to hear that.
[–]JordanSM 26 points27 points28 points  (0 children)
Well good thing you read it
[–]Riverthief 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
42% of all cop killers are black.
Source: Dallas, TX
[–]RMcD94 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Surely lots of people like knowing that?
nobody wants to hear
[–]DeezyCheezy -26 points-25 points-24 points  (218 children)
This is probably simplifying it a lot but I think I'd be correct in assuming this all goes back to racism.
Racism > marginalization > poverty > desperation > crime > racism.
Repeat cycle. It's sad.
[–]cabrafilo 16 points17 points18 points  (6 children)
Why doesn't West Virginia have high levels of crime despite having so many poor whites?
[–]neohellpoet 140 points141 points142 points  (167 children)
Which is why Japanese Americans are so poor, and commit so many crimes. People hated them because of WW2 and that spiraled in to their current situation.
Oh, wait, no. They got their shit together, impressed the living hell out of everyone and got Pacific theater vets to drive Japanese cars. Looks like the cycle isn't all that hard to break after all. Just replace crime with working your ass off to prove to everyone you're not only as good, but better than they are and things will work out fine.
At the end of the day, crime is a choice and the people saying they were forced in to it are full of shit.
[–]ellenok 11 points12 points13 points  (3 children)
What if you don't have any money to buy bootstraps?
[–]dustwetsuit 61 points62 points63 points  (51 children)
I have to agree. I grew up poor as shit in a very bad neighbourhood and although I was no saint (we got bored and would do stupid kid shit), I never commited assault, armed robbery, murder or rape.
Blaming it all on your social-economic status and ignoring there's a very independent, paralel and violent "black culture" in the U.S. is ignoring reality.
Crime NEVER chooses you. At the end of the day, it's your choice to pull the trigger, to rob, to murder and to rape. Sorry
btw. Am white
[–]Rice__cube 21 points22 points23 points  (37 children)
Except Japanese Americans have been subject to way less racism than blacks have. And only for a shorter period of time
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