3
4

Was Osama Bin Laden communist? (self.communism101)

Fancyclanc が 投稿

並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A
あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]MrWalrusSocks 9ポイント10ポイント  (8子コメント)

Not a communist, no. He had a wealthy background, and his anti-imperialist stance was inspired by pan-Islamist ideology. He wanted to remove the American imperialists from lands populated by Muslims - notably Saudi Arabia due to its importance in Islam.

So while he was opposed to imperialism - which in the modern era has sunk its claws into the middle east more than other parts of the world - he was not a communist. His violence was to free Muslims from American imperialism, not to emancipate the proletariat. Bin Laden was, in fact, opposed to communism, socialism, and liberal democracy. He was also opposed to pan-Arabism and believed that Wahhabist interpretation of Sharia law implemented throughout the Muslim world was the only way to restore order to the world.

[–]Fancyclanc[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

Do Muslim extremist groups have any potential to be made communist? It seems like communists are ISIS are fighting similar things. Sorry if my questions are very uninformed.

[–]MrWalrusSocks 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

Depends what you mean by Muslim extremist groups, I suppose. The PKK, YPG, and YPJ (all Kurdish) are very much predominantly Muslim, and (iirc) are Marxist-Leninist and anarchists respectively. So they could be called extremist groups if you consider communism and anarchism to be extremist ideologies, as many people in the west do.

If you mean Muslim extremist groups in the context of groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS, then the answer is - unless somebody else has a rather interesting interpretation to offer - absolutely not. ISIS and Al Qaeda are much more aligned to fascism. They do not fight an anti-imperialist struggle to liberate people from oppressors, rather, they seek to enforce an extremist form of Islam on people.

ISIS are fighting American imperialism, in order to create their own imperialist state. Communists fight against American imperialism to free people from the associated oppression and murder.

[–]Fancyclanc[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

That makes sense, thank you!

[–]mimprisons 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

ISIS are fighting American imperialism, in order to create their own imperialist state.

eh, maybe. But that's just a pipedream for now. The U.$. is the #1 imperialist. The IS is struggling to hold state power. So they should not be seen as similar in the balance of forces. Similarly it is misleading to say that IS is more aligned to fascism. Right now the biggest imposer of fascism globally is the U.$. and IS is at war with the U.$. So what fascism are IS aligned with?

[–]MrWalrusSocks 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not saying IS are anywhere near America's level of power, simply that one of the aims of Daesh is to drive out western imperialism and instead create a fundamentalist Islamic state.

And I don't think it's misleading to say that IS are more aligned to fascism. While the biggest imposer of fascism globally is indeed the US, and Daesh and the US are at war, that doesn't mean Daesh are not fascists or otherwise imperialistic.

[–]mimprisons -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I guess we define fascism and imperialism differently then. I'm using the Marxist definitions of the terms, in which both are systems led by finance capital.

[–]donkeykongsimulatormarxist | mlm | autonomist | chicanx 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Daesh makes most of its money through selling oil it gets in the territories it occupies, how is that not imperialist?

[–]Jaktrep 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You didn't recall quite correctly comrade, the PKK has been libertarian municipalist (they call their implementation democratic confederalism, but I fail to see any difference) since a while after Öcalan was arrested and thus the ideology spread to the YPG and the YPJ due to their influence in the Kurdish left. Libertarian municipalism is also not really anarchist, nor does any proponent of it claim it is, as it promotes a withering away of the state.