Come and See (1985) Discussion

[Ando]

How many people here has seen this movie?

The way the movie portrays the Germans was as if every one of them was a crazy blood thirsty murderer who enjoyed burning kids and raping woman. It was made in 1985 so I am guessing that the Soviet government wouldn't have let any movie be released that didn't match its war propaganda. Why did the Germans have to laugh so much, I doubt their mental state was portrayed accurately. Am I wrong?

Overall I enjoyed the film and would recommend it, I liked how they used real bullets and explosives on some occasions, it created some very realistic and harrowing scenes.

Any other comments on the movie?

Ando

[Simon H]

I remember that the first time I saw this film how suddenly shocked I was during the sequence when the villagers are hounded into the church. Some Germans are posing with cameras and although I guess I should have guessed what was going to happen it is still brutal when you see the grenades being thrown through the windows.

I don't know much about the political scene in Russia when it was made, but there are a few war films that were banned inside the SU.

Still a good film though, the hero has to carry his rifle thru the whole film before getting a chance to empty it into a portrait of Hitler.

[Oleg Grigoryev]

How many people here has seen this movie?

The way the movie portrays the Germans was as if every one of them was a crazy blood thirsty murderer who enjoyed burning kids and raping woman. It was made in 1985 so I am guessing that the Soviet government wouldn't have let any movie be released that didn't match its war propaganda. Why did the Germans have to laugh so much, I doubt their mental state was portrayed accurately. Am I wrong?

Overall I enjoyed the film and would recommend it, I liked how they used real bullets and explosives on some occasions, it created some very realistic and harrowing scenes.

Any other comments on the movie?

Ando

after 3 yeras of war one can hardly be "human" in pre-war meaning of the word.

the movie is about German "death squads" - people who often voulanteered for that kind of work are bound to be "spical"

[Ljunggren]

I saw it in a movietheater back in the ´80s when it first was released and I´ve been looking for a copy on video or dvd ever since. I remember it as a very surreal and beautiful movie with many levels - not only portraying the atrocities of the einsatzgruppen.

[Oleg Grigoryev]

I saw it in a movietheater back in the ´80s when it first was released and I´ve been looking for a copy on video or dvd ever since. I remember it as a very surreal and beautiful movie with many levels - not only portraying the atrocities of the einsatzgruppen.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... d&n=507846

[tonyh]

I bought this a while ago and to be honest I was a little disapointed. Its really only an attrocity movie and it certainly could have been done better.

It presents a typical Soviet propaganda view of WWII and especially the partisan activity of WWII. The partisans took no prisoners, thats for sure. But we only see this at the end of the film and only when we're geared up after we see the German soldiers laughing and cheering while they burn people in a barn and rape the women. A really silly and somewhat innocent way of "getting the audience on side". Its hard not to be cynical about these type of movie manipulations.

The film is too long and boringly pretentious in many places. Unnecessarilly so. The bottom line is that it could have been done better and more effectivly without resorting to the silly propaganda. But then again, its a Russian film about WWII........so what do you expect?

Of course, only Germans commited attrocities in WWII and every one of them couln't wait to fry a Russian civvie.

Tony

[Lars EP]

I saw it back in -87 when it was released in Denmark.

I thought it was brillant, even outstanding. Horrifying, surreal, nightmarish.

Of course it only shows German astrocities. That is what the film is about. And anyway, the Soviets where amaturs in commiting war-crimes, compared with the Germans. The death-toll, if nothing else, speaks for itself. But also the number of destroyed towns, villages, farms, libraries, hospitals and museums shows that there was a world of difference.

The German high-command had from the beginning orders to treat the Russians as sub-humans. It was made clear to the German soldiers that they where free to do what ever they wanted. As the enemy was less than human, there was no reason to treat them as such.

The Soviets never gave such orders. Not that they didn't commit warcrimes. Everybody did, and does. And in a war so brutal as the Eastern front, they probably also comitted more astrocities than their Western Allied counterparts. But, never in such an systematic, fiendish and monstrous way as the Germans.

Regards --- Lars

[Toivo]

This might go a bit off topic but about Germans doing worst warcrimes... Heh, namely destroying cities - what about Dresden? Red Army destoryed in my homeland one ancient bordercity with artilleryfire (Narva, it still exists but none of old building now), they bombed non-military objects in capitol Tallinn and did large scale destruction in Taru, ancient city.

I think you take this either one-way or you have some emotional background for anger. But, I try to take this not subjectively. Everybody and their mother are making germans look monsters (not that they were any good, many of them it is), and have listed all their crimes and more, but what about japans, allies and soviets? Guess for allies and soviets works "you don't critizise winners"...
Just few thoughts on subject, nothing personal, nothing to take too hard.

Regards

[Lars EP]

I'm not taking it personal, and maybe we should continue a more relevant place.

As I said, the Russians probably comitted worse astrocities than most. They did not, however, systematicly exterminate 17 million German civilians. That is what the Germans did on the Eastern front.

Regards --- Lars

[Heinz Stohl]

"winners always make the storys" think about that. no doubt the russians were as brutal as the germans or even more so. evern before the war russian bulshiviks commited many atrocitys to there own people as well as german civilians liveing in and aroudn russia.

stalins secreat police did alot of this as well.

[Toivo]

Yes we could discuss this in other thread Lars.
As about systemathic murdering... that's what horrifies people most and makes wonder, because GULAG camps for exsample killed people quite randomly with hard work and starving. German camps just killed people off. And worst in both cases is killing own nation due ideology, not just POWs.
I just think that everyone who is/was responsible should get equally punched.

Regards