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socialism

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Welcome to /r/socialism

Socialism as a political system is defined by democratic and social control of the means of production by the workers for the good of the community rather than capitalist profit, based fundamentally on the abolition of private property relations.
Socialism is also a sociopolitical movement dedicated to the critique and dismantling of exploitative structures, including economic, gendered, ethnic oppression.
Socialism, as a movement, confronts these different systems of oppression as mutually conditioning, intersectional, and/or dialectically related within the current hegemonic order. It seeks to overcome oppression in a holistic manner without neglecting any particular axis so that it might be eliminated and genuine social emancipation may be realized. We recognize that Socialism cannot be achieved while structural oppression continues and workers are divided.
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[–]westcoastmaximalistOscar Romero 32 points33 points34 points  (54 children)
Hard to find sympathy right now.
[–]crownsonthegroundDemocratic Socialism 15 points16 points17 points  (40 children)
I understand. But we should try our best to find it, no death is light.
[–]CounterkultureNelson Mandela 32 points33 points34 points  (1 child)
I want good cops to stop the bullshit, stop the apologizing, and root out all the rotten apples that they KNOW are in their fucking departments.
Stop talking, stop doing nothing, get these fucking vermin out of your ranks. Nobody else can.
Until then, no sympathy. Show us change... it's up to you. Words mean literally nothing tonight. NOTHING.
[–]whirlpool_galaxyMay the Black and Red unite! 30 points31 points32 points  (0 children)
There's no such thing as a good cop. Any cop is either a bad cop or complicit to bad cops' activities. Would-be good cops don't last long in the reactionary institution that is the police force.
Edit: Tried to translate a term directly from my native language, ended up making up a word.
[–]bojank33Woody Guthrie 22 points23 points24 points  (32 children)
Fuck them. These officers are complicit with the murders that continue to happen in departments all over the country. Until the police step up and bring the murders in their ranks to justice (which will never happen) they are just as guilty as those who perpetrate the crimes.
[–]mysteryfluff 8 points9 points10 points  (31 children)
what the fuck is an officer in texas going to do about a shooting in louisiana? the police who murder black people dont get in trouble because the higher bureaucracy is racist and not wanting to draw attention to that, what will shooting beat cops accomplish?
[–]ben_jl 22 points23 points24 points  (10 children)
what the fuck is an officer in texas going to do about a shooting in louisiana?
Quit the force. Every single cop is complicit in the ongoing oppression of millions; there's no such thing as an innocent police officer.
[–]IdeaTardiaLibertad, Igualdad, Fraternidad 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
For a socialist sub there's hella little sympathy for men trapped by wage slavery/societal conditioning here tbh, no regard for the officers' material conditions. Tribalism is sad.
Not to mention how great an idea getting all the moral cops to quit is. The police force won't dissappear, you've just made it significantly more shit.
[–]SisterRayVU 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
  1. I doubt most cops are forced into the job due to the material conditions of their lives. That doesn't mean I don't feel for them -- I have love and respect for every human life, but they could have done anything else.
  2. There is no moral cop. Every day, they witness violence and they say nothing.
[–]IdeaTardiaLibertad, Igualdad, Fraternidad -2 points-1 points0 points  (1 child)
I doubt most cops are forced into the job due to the material conditions of their lives.
You can't use words like 'most' to justify indiscriminate killing.
There is no moral cop. Every day, they witness violence and they say nothing.
Except the ones that do of course.
[–]SisterRayVU 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Responded to your other post.
[–]mysteryfluff comment score below threshold-9 points-8 points-7 points  (4 children)
what makes a cop in vermont complicit in the murder of a black man in texas?
[–]ben_jl 15 points16 points17 points  (3 children)
The fact that he's wearing the same uniform.
[–]mysteryfluff comment score below threshold-14 points-13 points-12 points  (2 children)
you are either a troll or stupid, because two people wear the same uniform and live on the opposite sides of the country, one is complicit for the crime of another? get real
[–]LiterallyAGoogolplex 22 points23 points24 points  (0 children)
Stop kidding yourself. The police exist to control, suppress, and use violence against the poor and to protect the interests of the rich.
[–]Typical_Name 15 points16 points17 points  (0 children)
I'm pretty sure he's using the uniform as a metaphor for the organization they chose to join, not as a critique of their clothing choice. Get real?
[–]Sir_CuitrySolidarity with All Oppressed Peoples 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
  1. Ross Anthony, 6/9/15 Dallas, TX: Police claim Ross Anthony was banging his fists on the hood of an ambulance and got into another person’s vehicle when they arrived. Officers claim they attempted to talk Anthony out of the car, choosing to reach in and grab him when he opened the door. When he allegedly resisted, the officer tased Anthony, which ended up killing him
[–]bojank33Woody Guthrie 13 points14 points15 points  (18 children)
This isn't a problem unique to Louisiana or Minnesota. Every state has police that kill extra judicially and as far as I know none of these states' police departments have done jack shit to end this practice. Thus, their officers are complicit. It's pretty simple. But, what do you expect? These "public servants" choose to serve a blatantly racist institution that has an uninterrupted history of serving the rich and white. That's why I have absolutely no sympathy for the fucks that got shot.
[–]ridingpigsLeft Communist 7 points8 points9 points  (14 children)
We have no idea what these people were like? Were they trying to make a difference? Were they racist at all? Who knows! What are their children going to feel? God damn it sometimes this subreddit pisses me off.
[–]SisterRayVU 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
We have no idea what these people were like?
They were cops.
Were they trying to make a difference?
How can they do so as cops? Assume they were "good." They were silent about the violence and oppression their brothers and sisters committed daily. They see it as part of the job. It's disgusting. Do you know why I know they weren't trying to root out the evil in their ranks? Because they were cops.
Were they racist at all?
They were cops. They certainly were.
What are their children going to feel?
Their children will feel awful. And I feel awful for the humans who died and those who suffer the losses. But I feel nothing for the humans-as-cops. These are two different bodies.
[–]ridingpigsLeft Communist -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
I just don't see the point. Someone's going to take the same positions of the people who died, and do all the same negative things. The only difference being that now there are more fatherless/motherless children and mourning loved ones.
[–]ben_jl 8 points9 points10 points  (6 children)
We have no idea what these people were like?
We know they were cops.
[–]IAmRootLibertarian Socialism 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
True, but a lot of people don't see the institutional problems with police like we do. A lot of people think that police is the only form organized collective protection can take. And there are also a heck of a lot of people who believe in lesser-evilism. I'm sure there are police who think "I don't like doing the bad things, but if I stay in I can try to influence the culture/decisions for the better." There are plenty of people who think that change will only come by by working within the system. They are completely wrong, but someone being wrong doesn't make their intentions evil.
[–]ridingpigsLeft Communist comment score below threshold-8 points-7 points-6 points  (4 children)
You sound like r/the_Donald when they're talking about Muslims.
[–]ben_jl 10 points11 points12 points  (3 children)
There's a big difference between being born into a religion and voluntarily joining a racist institution.
[–]Hercorbor comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points  (1 child)
They are selling their services to survive. Just like us. It's a terrible system where we all end up being complicit to some terrible exploitation.
[–]ridingpigsLeft Communist -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
In a way, I would argue, there are similarities between religion and capitalism. If you're born into the middle class, everyone is always telling you how wonderful it is to be a police officer, military fighter, etc. You're told it's honorable, you're helping society, you make it so people live happily, and so on. This may not be the case, but it's what you truly believe. So I argue that there are some cops who join in an effort to do good - they fail, of course, but that doesn't mean we should fucking kill them.
Of course, if someone attacks you, you should fight back.
I know some people who are police officers personally. I really don't like them, they're assholes. But when I think about them being shot in the street...it upsets me. And it makes me mad that this forum cheers these deaths.
[–]Typical_Name -4 points-3 points-2 points  (3 children)
Not to rain on your parade, but I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
[–]marsyredMalcolm X 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
this whole thread has my head spinning people really need to use /s if they are being sarcastic
[–]Typical_Name 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
He was making obviously bullshit emotional appeals in favor of the police. Does that really need an /s tag?
[–]mysteryfluff 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
you still have yet to address my point, dead cops in texas who have no connection to the murders the protest was about are dead. and the 'racist institution' how do instituitions stop being racist? changes in the higher structure, which more often than not comes from the bottom up, or out of state people from other departments. because of this, there is no way that the gunmen knew which officers hated black people and which wanted police reform. you would say all doctors are narcissistic fetishists and so it is wrong to immediately assume all cops are bad. a lot in a lot of places are, but unfortunately broad generalizations gets innocent people hurt.
[–]SisterRayVU 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
FWIW, no socialist would think that the police can be reformed into being "good."
because of this, there is no way that the gunmen knew which officers hated black people and which wanted police reform.
And they don't think that the police could be reformed precisely because any and all police witness their comrades practicing violence and oppression daily. And they do not speak up.
[–]bojank33Woody Guthrie 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Well, I feel like I did. Regardless, of where they stand on "police reform" they are complicit in what is happening now. That doesn't change. There are no "innocent cops" and they are being brought to justice and made an example of.
[–]AlienatedLaborMarxism-Leninism-Maoism 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
~One dead cop, no more donut shops. More dead cops might make the hurting stop...~
[–]UpholderOfThoughtsI support PCR-RCP 9 points10 points11 points  (2 children)
WRONG! some deaths are as light as a feather and others are as weighty as mount tai, nerd.
[–]RedBlackRevolt -3 points-2 points-1 points  (1 child)
MAO'D
[–]crownsonthegroundDemocratic Socialism -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Pretty much a straight rip off from Qian. edit: And yes I had to look that up to remember where I'd read it before. Not some Chinese history buff here. I wish I had more time for it though :(
[–]RadicalDenominatorsQueer Liberation Through Communism 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Meh
[–]Death_to_FascismHistory will absolve them 8 points9 points10 points  (12 children)
Your sympathy should be with the oppressed by the capitalist state apparatus.
[–]ComradeFrunzeTrotskyist-De Leonist | Cajun Inter"nationalist" 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
So everyone in the country?
[–]curiositie 0 points1 point2 points  (10 children)
How about we feel sympathy for the deceased and their families, regardless of their alignment?
[–]OneDoesNotSimplyPassHammer and Sickle 5 points6 points7 points  (9 children)
Would you feel sympathy for a dead fascist?
[–]curiositie 0 points1 point2 points  (7 children)
Sure They probably don't want to die any more than you or I do, and it hurts their families just as much as us dying would hurt ours.
[–]OneDoesNotSimplyPassHammer and Sickle 7 points8 points9 points  (6 children)
False equivalency.
Don't buy into liberal moral thinking, think materially. An oppressor is worth less than the oppressed. They are a class enemy. If they participated in exploitation, they have personally harmed people.
[–]SisterRayVU -2 points-1 points0 points  (5 children)
I disagree. I'm not moralizing. I think all humans are equally deserving of love and compassion. I think a dead fascist, a dead cop, or a dead "innocent" is all bad. I do separate the person from the person-as-a-cop, though.
[–]OneDoesNotSimplyPassHammer and Sickle 4 points5 points6 points  (4 children)
Are you glad to know that fascists consider you an ally?
Not acting against fascism is, historically, the same as acting for it.
[–]SisterRayVU 2 points3 points4 points  (3 children)
Fascists are enemies. I act against them as best as I can now, and if conditions change in the future, I will change how I act towards them. I don't see how you can claim that fascists would consider me an ally.
I act against fascism. I made a conscious decision to change what I do with my life to try to help the oppressed and invisible people in our society as best as I can with the tools available because these are the conditions of our existence. Don't patronize me or belittle me. I know it's a typical internet argument thing to say, "but you don't know me or what I do!" but...
[–]OneDoesNotSimplyPassHammer and Sickle 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
I believe you, but I am saying that no person is a singular position. You may oppose fascists 99% of the time, but by promoting treating them with peace instead of violence, you empower them. I just don't think that's a risk we can take.
However, I meant no offense or insinuation comrade, so I'll drop this.
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