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Protesting? In MYYYY Pride parade?!?! (self.circlebroke2)

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[–]datums -13ポイント-12ポイント  (52子コメント)

They stopped the entire parade, and refused to budge for 30 minutesuntil their demands were met. Among those demands was a new rule that says the police can no longer participate in the parade.

That's unacceptable. The anger is justified.

[–]onedayoneroom[S] 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you unfamiliar with what protesting is?

[–]Minn-ee-sottaa 18ポイント19ポイント  (45子コメント)

You are correct. The anger is justified. Police, an institution that has assaulted the LGBTQIA community for centuries, should not be welcome at a Pride parade.

As OP said, do you understand what the hell protesting is?

[–]SPCRoland 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is it not OK to agree with a movement's goals, but criticize their tactics? Is BLM above criticism? Just because it's a protest about legitimate issues, doesn't mean it's a smart way to go about doing things.

I agree with the majority of BLM's stated goals, but I think this protest was divisive and counter-productive. In the same way that opposing anti-Trump protestors when they burn the American flag or assault people doesn't mean I suddenly support Trump, opposing this specific action doesn't mean I disagree with BLM.

I think your point about the police is pretty ridiculous. Do you really believe in collective guilt? Should a gay cop in 2016 really not be allowed to participate in a gay pride parade because of the sins of law enforcement as an institution? I guess black cops shouldn't be allowed to march on MLK day either. Shit, I suppose even black firemen are out too if we're gonna hold people accountable for the past sins of their profession.

[–]Minn-ee-sottaa 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Should a gay cop in 2016 really not be allowed to participate in a gay pride parade because of the sins of law enforcement as an institution?

Then why attach the "cop" part, with all its history and trauma associated with that, to their identity?

[–]datums 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

The people that live in the gay village (where this took place) have a warm relationship with the police these days. I should know because I live there. The idea that you're going to throw a monkey wrench in that relationship to punish cops for what they used to be like is both unfair and counterproductive. Sowing division in that manner is also contrary to the values that have made the most diverse city in the world one of the best cities on Earth to call home.

Please leave your us-versus-them politics south of the border.

[–]Minn-ee-sottaa 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

No shit the wealthy white gay men who are the only marginalized ones who can afford to live in gentrifying urban centers will cozy right up to the police when they don't have to worry anymore.

[–]onedayoneroom[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm not sure if you're from Toronto or are familiar with the village, but yes, that perfectly describes the area. Not as hip as other neighbourhoods, but considering it's between slimy downtown Yonge St. and is around the corner from Regent Park (social house/projects), it's a super nice strip.

[–]Zorkamork 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

but considering it's between slimy downtown Yonge St. and is around the corner from Regent Park (social house/projects), it's a super nice strip.

gay white dude bubble.txt

[–]onedayoneroom[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Maybe I'm wrong - I don't live there. On the surface it seems nice - a lot like the Junction, a lot like Leslieville, where it used to be a lot nastier than it currently is, and is gentrifying more and more. The boutique shops, nice restaurants and high-end condos I've seen and have been are what's informing my assumption. Care to enlighten, beyond responding with a meme?

[–]Zorkamork 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sorry, no I meant that sounded like exactly how it goes. A little gentrified bubble pops up surrounded by 'bad' areas so the people in it feel like it's still 'authentic' while being able to completely ignore/sneer at the less well off people.

[–]onedayoneroom[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh I got you. Then yeah, that's definitely how it is. I would have been surprised to hear otherwise on the matter - even checked Wikipedia, which confirms the middle-aged white dude gentrification.

[–]datums 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well there's the confirmation that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. The gay village in Toronto is a gentrified neighbourhood full of rich white men? Is that supposed to be a joke?

[–]Faenixio 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

isn't it? not trying to argue, just wanted to know (Im not even the other guy)

[–]datums -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have lived in that area for 10 years, and in the village itself since last summer. The thing that makes this neighbourhood so awesome is that it has resisted the kind of gentrification you see elsewhere that destroys the culture and sense of community. An example of the opposite is the cultural wasteland that is Liberty Village, which is about as friendly and authentic as a suburban shopping mall. The same could be said about the distillery district, which is basically just a more pretentious version of the same thing.

[–]InkedForLife -4ポイント-3ポイント  (32子コメント)

DAE police are bad and can only do wrong, whereas (social justice group) can only do good?

cmon mate, protesting a parade about having the same equality as everyone else to tell those people they want equality? ludicrous

[–]Minn-ee-sottaa 3ポイント4ポイント  (31子コメント)

Having the police participate is an affront to the legacy of LGBTQIA struggles like the Stonewall uprising

[–]InkedForLife 10ポイント11ポイント  (29子コメント)

DAE police are bad and can only do wrong,

Having the police participate is actually more to show that people can change. So in you're view you'd rather the police potentially have a worse off view by being forced to stop participating? Come on man.

[–]burnreddit_down 5ポイント6ポイント  (18子コメント)

they've had plenty of time to 'change'

the police have no place at pride. pride is a celebration of queerness and the only time a lot of folk can be open and happy. the presence of a organization that historically has systemically antagonized the lgbt community at pride is at worst an affront that will make hundreds of people feel unsafe and at best a ticking timebomb of tension waiting to happen.

[–]SPCRoland 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

What about gay police? Do they have a place at pride?

[–]InkedForLife 5ポイント6ポイント  (16子コメント)

DAE police are bad and can only do wrong,

[–]drawlinnn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah most of the time man. Fuck the police

[–]burnreddit_down 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dae not allowing the police to be at a pride event is tantamount to screaming for dead cops? DAE the discourse????

im not interested in arguing the overall morality of every officer or the police structurally but the lgbt community, especially the trans community, has every right to be upset about the presence of cops at pride

[–]Minn-ee-sottaa -5ポイント-4ポイント  (13子コメント)

What is the purpose of the police?

Think about it. I'm starving and I have no money. Who will stop me from walking into a store and walking out with bread? The police and their guns. At my place of employment, what is stopping me and my colleagues from taking control of said workplace? The police who will come and enforce the right of the owner, who only has that right to our surplus labor value because of his name on the paperwork.

Their purpose is inherently bad and incompatible with egalitarianism.

[–]everybodosoangry 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Haha oh wow, the tough guy-ness continues

[–]HildredCastaigne 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Do you believe in the rule of law? If yes, then who should enforce it? Should it be enforced at all? If no, then what do you propose otherwise?

[–]i_says_2_mabel 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

t my place of employment, what is stopping me and my colleagues from taking control of said workplace?

DAE all business owners are evil?

DAE police are only tools of the bourgeois???

I'm not a capitalist, but this dishonest, and if you can't see that, I don't know what to say.

[–]Minn-ee-sottaa -1ポイント0ポイント  (9子コメント)

I would prefer them to stop shooting and beating oppressed peoples if they want to show that they can change.

Until then, their participation is at best a shallow, feel-good photo op moment

[–]DoogieHueserMD 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

It feels like you're conflating Canadian and American police. Both have major issues, but Canada's wikipedia page for people killed by police lists all the names ranging from 1932 to last month. If America did that the list would be five gigs of data.

[–]pompouspug 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sure there's still unfair treatment of PoC. I live in Germany, and while German policemen have shot only 476 people since 1952, there is still a bias against letting people of a certain skin colour "off the hook" opposed to what they'd do with a white guy.

Granted, I think it's far less institutional here, and more of a regional problem. There are cities where the police is usually seen - even by far leftists - as "fair", and there are cities where the police just let some neo nazi shit slide, soooo

I would extrapolate from that: If Toronto is a city with "asshole police", then I get the anger. I dunno about that though.

EDIT: I should mention, with "far leftists" I don't mean anarchists, I mean democratic socialists. (Not social democrats - they are center-left here)

[–]onedayoneroom[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Oh okay then never mind. Since there are fewer people being oppressed and killed in Canada than the USA, everyone up here should stop fussing.

[–]DoogieHueserMD 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Rofl that's not what I meant, but you can't give American justifications for Canadian protesting it's fucking dumb. I'm generally in favor of protesting and rioting, but you can't compare two incredibly disparate sets of statistics and use it as a justification.

[–]onedayoneroom[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

In and out of context of American police, the point is to stop the list from getting any longer. History provides examples, and I don't think it matters if it's our nation's history or another's. Semantics don't really seem necessary right now. Similar movements, similar oppression, different scales.

[–]Minn-ee-sottaa -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Fundamentally, the police are reactionaries. They protect property rights as well to the detriment of the people.

[–]DoogieHueserMD 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And as a socialist I know this, but I don't think this is why they were protesting police. I'm sure there some kind of institutionalized oppression that I don't know about and no one in this thread has mentioned.

[–]pink_gabriel 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Affront" is too much.

It is destructive to the community that police kill people of color, and the police definitely have a negative history with the GSM uprising in Stonewall, but calm that shit a little bit, man. We need the police. In light of shit like the Orlando shooting, as painful and complicated as it is to have police working the event, we absolutely do need them there. Speaking as a GSM, I'd rather be alive and part of a complicated and conflicted movement than dead as a martyr.

[–]Zorkamork 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes why ever would people have issues with police at a gay pride event

http://i.imgur.com/E6pZYJ4.jpg

[–]datums 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well, Toronto isn't in America. They don't have the same attitude toward police, in part due to their engagement with the community. And I can tell you that those who live in the gay village value their warm relations with the police, and aren't interested in seeing those relations diminished the way BLM has demanded.

It's only people like you who are outside of the situation that are sympathetic to BLM's backward and divisive tactics. Maybe it's an American thing, I don't know. We don't have the same problems you have.

[–]Zorkamork 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

If the cops not getting a fucking float is enough to make them hate our community I guess they weren't very good friends after all.

And no, police brutality against minorities is absolutely not an American thing.

[–]datums 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Our community"? I fucking doubt that. You're just another ignorant outsider with a worthless opinion on things you don't understand.

[–]everybodosoangry -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

abloo bloo bloo a parade didn't go as planned and someone wasn't nice to a cop :(