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Attorney: New trial granted for Adnan Syed of "Serial"season one (baltimoresun.com)

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[–]OneReportersOpinion [スコア非表示]  (78子コメント)

Oh man. The Adnan haters must be going nuts right now.

[–]KeepingMyJob310 [スコア非表示]  (77子コメント)

I know, Hae's family must be in hell right now. You're delighted about this. Reason 200 I could never be a free Adnaner.

[–]moneyonfire [スコア非表示]  (34子コメント)

I've lost a family member to a violent crime. I still want to know who did it. It won't solve anything to send the wrong person to jail.

[–]rulesofbaseball [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

Except they sent the right person in jail.

[–]whitenoise2323giant rat-eating frog [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

It seems the courts don't quite agree. I can actually say that now! Presumption of innocence returned!

[–]_undermiss [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The retrial was granted on the grounds that his trial was unjust; it does not speculate as to whether he is the perpetrator.

[–]whitenoise2323giant rat-eating frog [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I never said it speculated regarding whether he was the perpetrator or not, just on the matter of presumption of innocence. An unjust trial means that his prior verdict of guilty is nullified and now the process begins again with Adnan having the presumption of innocence (granted he wins on the inevitable appeal).

[–]Braincloud [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

You misunderstand what the decision means - it has nothing at all to do with whether the court thinks the right person is in jail or not lol. Are you even serious? Do you know how appeals even work lol?

[–]whitenoise2323giant rat-eating frog [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

All I said is he gets the presumption of innocence back, which is a right we all have when entering into a criminal trial. I didn't say the court thinks he's inoccent, just innocent until proven guilty.

[–]Braincloud [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

No, that's not actually all you said. You also said "the courts" don't agree that the right person is in jail, and that's what I'm addressing. "The courts" (in reality, one court) did not and cannot say any such thing here. The decision has absolutely nothing to do with guilt or innocence.

[–]whitenoise2323giant rat-eating frog [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Did you purposefully omit the word quite?

[–]MM7299 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

probably one thing I've noticed is that some folks really enjoy omitting words and deleting things after the fact to try and alter the narrative and such

[–]Braincloud [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Do you think the presence of the word "quite" actually makes what you said any more correct in any way lol? I'd like to hear how "don't quite agree" actually resembles anything close to what the court (singular) actually said. Because the court did not "quite" address guilt or innocence "at all".

[–]OneReportersOpinion [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The judge says otherwise.

[–]moneyonfire [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Except they sent the right person in jail

?

[–]KeepingMyJob310 [スコア非表示]  (19子コメント)

But they think the right person is in prison after 2 trials. Also, IMO, Hae wasn't treated with respect by Team Adnan. I can understand why Serial bothers them.

[–]MM7299 [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

IMO, Hae wasn't treated with respect by Team Adnan.

oh good this ole talking point

[–]HeyZuesHChrist [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

The idea that this should have any weight in whether Adnan is given a new trial is absolutely ridiculous.

[–]MM7299 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

its also factually incorrect, but its swung like a hammer to, I guess, try and make some sort of argument or try and shame people or lord knows what

[–]HeyZuesHChrist [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

It's the new rallying cry for those who think he's guilty. "But think of Hae's family!"

One in a long line of reasons why they think Adnan should be in prison, none of which have anything to do with how the justice system is designed to work.

[–]MM7299 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

"But think of Hae's family!"

see that's the thing. Most people I talk to regularly who lean innocent or undecided DO think of Hae's family. I know I do, and I feel for them, as I am sure their pain has just been unimaginable since 1999. However, that doesn't mean that the justice system shouldn't be fair, and if Adnan is innocent, that means his family is also being unjustly punished and true justice doesn't exist yet.

[–]HeyZuesHChrist [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Exactly. Having empathy for Hae's family is not mutually exclusive to believing that Adnan was not given a fair trail. It's not even exclusive to believing Adnan is guilty but wrongly convicted.

I think a lot of the disagreements and fighting in this sub is due to the fact that people on each side are arguing different things.

[–]bythesword86 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

A man's freedom is more important than the feelings and closure of the victim's family. This ruling has rekindled what little faith was left in the justice system.

64% of murders go unsolved Hae's family can pull up a chair at that support group along with the rest of the country.

[–]wifflebb [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

This one was solved though. And now it's being overturned on a technicality.

[–]MM7299 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This one was solved though

not if they got the wrong guy

And now it's being overturned on a technicality.

no it actually isn't

[–]HeyZuesHChrist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But they think the right person is in prison after 2 trials

Their beliefs have zero to do with whether Adnan is guilty, or whether he was even given a fair trial. They are mutually exclusive.

[–]moneyonfire [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Who is this ambiguous 'they'? Who is team Adnan and what happened that was disrespectful? Not trolling you, I just have no idea what you are referencing.

[–]KeepingMyJob310 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Hae's family released 2 statements that I remember clearly. They explained that they actually sat through the entire trials like the jury, judge and the Serial fans did not,which became clear to me after the MPIA release. Next, and I couldn't stomach a lot of thes, they were just too depressing, the Free Adnan group, starting with Rabia and the one that looks like Garth from Wayne's world, tried to assassinate Hae's character by alluding to drug deals she might have been going to that led to her death - YouTube MSNBC with Seema Iyer has one example of this. Next, the reddit free Adnan people told people like me to die, and other women and said Hae treated Adnan poorly so they are not too sympathetic about her being strangled and want Adnan out one way or the other. I have more and will edit

[–]K-ZooCareBear_2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

the Free Adnan group... tried to assassinate Hae's character by alluding to drug deals she might have been going to that led to her death

No. From what I heard on UD, I was wondering if they were alluding to Hae being slipped something, etc. 2nd, Hae said in her diary she smoked weed. I don't think smoking pot (especially as a teenager) makes anyone a "bad" or reckless person, & I have an extremely hard time believing ANYONE would kill a teenage girl over a joint, but they were walking through scenarios... You know, trying to have the opposite of tunnel vision?

Then you get down to your honest reasoning...

the reddit free Adnan people told people like me to die, and other women and said Hae treated Adnan poorly so they are not too sympathetic about her being strangled and want Adnan out one way or the other.

Okay. So a troll (probably pretending to be a "free Adnan person" ) hurt your feelings? So you think Adnan should stay in prison for the rest of his life? While at the same time saying...

the Free Adnan group, starting with Rabia and the one that looks like Garth from Wayne's world,

Soooo, a -probable guilter but either way- troll hurts your feelings and you lose all ability to think logically and rationally and get upset, offended, and defensive... Then say something equally offensive about someone else? Are you 12?

[–]MM7299 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

tried to assassinate Hae's character

yeah that's a big fat ole lie but ok

[–]ib_thinkinharbors reasonable doubt [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

In what way was Hae disrespected by "Team Adnan," and who comprises "Team Adnan?"

[–]whitenoise2323giant rat-eating frog [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think it was when they passed around photos of her dead body... oh wait, that was Team Anti-Due Process.

[–]KeepingMyJob310 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I answered Above. If u can't find I'll cut and paste

[–]ib_thinkinharbors reasonable doubt [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Okay, so to simplify what you claimed so far:

  • Speculation on how else Hae may have been murdered, possibly involving drugs.
  • Someone on Reddit told you to die.
  • Someone on Reddit said she didn't feel bad for Hae because she was mean.

And to be clear, you don't claim that the Lees were privy to the last two? Just the first? Because they object to the notion that their daughter might have done drugs? Or might have been killed because she did drugs? That's the disrespect they received?

[–]K-ZooCareBear_2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Hae's family must be in hell right now. You're delighted about this. Reason 200 I could never be a free Adnaner.

Also as someone who has lost a sister, not to "violent crime" but due to what some people wanted me to believe was gross negligence (at best), I can assure you that they are probably going through Hell. That is heartbreaking. But keeping an almost certainly innocent guy in prison is what her family deserves? What Hae deserves?

For all of the wrongful convictions in the US, it is basically unheard of to have the victim or victim's family support a DNA test, let alone a new trial. You have the state to thank for that.

[–]heisenbrau [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Even if he's innocent?

[–]HeyZuesHChrist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There are definitely people in this thread who actually do believe Adnan should be sacrificed for the sake of Hae's family, regardless of actual guilt.

[–]HeyZuesHChrist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You're saying that you'd rather the justice system not work the way we intend because it will upset people?

What if he was 100% innocent but Hae's family believed him guilty? He should spend his life in prison because her family would be upset?

[–]ib_thinkinharbors reasonable doubt [スコア非表示]  (18子コメント)

Why should hae's family be upset about this? Do you think they aren't aware of how badly the prosecution's case fell apart upon close examination?

[–]SamsquamtchHunter [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Do you think they are able to look at it objectionably?

[–]ib_thinkinharbors reasonable doubt [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Objectively? Yes. But in the event that they aren't, I don't think the "hell" they're in should influence any of us one way or the other, right?

If one's objection to freeing an innocent man is that the victim's family will be upset, why should anybody care?

[–]SamsquamtchHunter [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

yep, dumb phone...

I wasn't saying its a reason to not grant him a retrial, just pointing out that they are likely upset at this regardless of evidence pointing towards his innocence

[–]ib_thinkinharbors reasonable doubt [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

They should be upset. If Adnan is innocent, Hae hasn't received justice. If Adnan is guilty and the state really can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, Hae might soon be robbed of her justice. If Adnan is guilty and the state can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, Hae will never receive justice.

It's totally reasonable for Hae's family to be upset, but to be upset at the fact that Adnan is getting a new trial is to assume they have a particular view of the case, in light of everything that's been revealed by Serial, Undisclosed, etc.

[–]Braincloud [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I don't think you get to say whether or not they should be upset, or what they should be upset about or not. Have a little fucking empathy and leave them be. Whether you agree or not with what they think about who killed Hae it makes no difference to the legal outcome. So don't presume to say they don't have a right to their opinions and feelings. Jesus Christ, this isn't just a fucking intriguing podcast to them, you know?

[–]ib_thinkinharbors reasonable doubt [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Everyone has a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. If you think folks are entitled to be outraged over things that aren't true, I don't know of a way to persuade you otherwise. That's such a strange way to approach the world.

"I'll never vote for John McCain, because he caused the dinosaurs to go extinct! I want my deinonychus, goddammit!"

Weird, right? Do you have the same deferential attitude, there?

[–]Braincloud [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Your attitude is so completely devoid of any empathy or compassion that I'm not even sure how to address it. Their opinions and beliefs have absolutely no bearing on the legal case so I'm baffled as to why their beliefs and feelings would so enrage you. Or even just concern you. And that's leaving aside that it was a decently strong circumstantial case.

Can you really not just allow the family of the victim the space to draw their own conclusions? Why do you feel it necessary that they agree with your interpretation of the case? Why do you even feel the need to comment on how they should or should not feel? Again - their feelings and beliefs will have no impact on the outcome here. If you're that happy about this decision then be happy about that. But accept the fact that the victim's family has reached a different opinion. You don't get to say how they should or shouldn't feel. Who the fuck are you, the emotions police? Isn't it enough that Adnan is getting another trial? You need everyone to agree with that for it to be valid or something?

[–]KeepingMyJob310 [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

I'm going off their comments after Serial/PCR etc. They said after sitting through 2 trials, they were convinced of his guilt, like Judge Wanda Heard (judge who sentenced him) I have no information about them complaining about the States case. They don't worship Adnan so they don't see it the way you do, plus I can't imagine their grief and what that does.

[–]MM7299 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They don't worship Adnan

yeah no one does. that nonsense is old

[–]ib_thinkinharbors reasonable doubt [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

They don't worship Adnan so they don't see it the way you do, plus I can't imagine their grief and what that does.

I'm sorry if I've given you the false impression that I "worship Adnan." Can you tell me how so I can avoid this perception in the future?

[–]KeepingMyJob310 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I've just rarely seen the mental gymnastics and denial about facts that people who want Adnan out engage in. I've seen it before, but it's rare. SK set it up and many bought it. I hold everyone to the same standard, so I couldn't make excuses for Adnans behavior and his family's. Also, I'm the same age, very similar to Hae, I just really related to her and her family, but did not relate to his family. The high praise heaped on his disturbing family, I just figured when people really adore someone they will forgive the bad things they do and his family/close supporters by extension. Brief example: The racism directed at Jay, the black members of the jury, Inez and Thiru, I don't support that and it's laughable coming from people who wouldn't shut up about non existent Islamophobia. Urick said such nice things about the Mosque community in his closing but I doubt many have read the MPIA files to know.

[–]HeyZuesHChrist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've just rarely seen the mental gymnastics

And

They don't worship Adnan so they don't see it the way you do

Can I assume that you believe the judge who made this ruling also worships Adnan and also performed mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that he should get a new trial?

[–]ib_thinkinharbors reasonable doubt [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

...have I demonstrated any of that, here?

I don't recall praising the Syeds, nor forgiving anybody for anything. I definitely don't recall being racist towards Jay, the jury, or the prosecutors, and I don't think Kevin Urick's problems stem from not saying enough nice things about Muslims in his closing.

After listening to Serial, I was of the opinion that it didn't matter whether he did it, as there was not proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he did (see my flair).

After listening to the legal analysis in Undisclosed, hosted by legal minds I'm familiar with outside of the Syed case, I became convinced that he probably didn't actually do it. The most damning evidence was also the most questionable, from the recorded manipulation of Jay by the police before trial, to the misuse of cell tower records (setting aside cover sheet issues).

[–]marysue567 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm sure this is not your intention but your post is the literal embodiment of xenophobia. 'they are not like me so they I can't empathize with them'. Sure, we don't have to like everyone we meet, or socialize with people we just have no common grounds with your mentality is very ethically wrong. We should NEVER base serious ethical and judicial decisions on these things. That's honestly what it's all about, to suspend one's bias's and inability to connect to the situation and make a fair decision regardless. I personally think Adnan is guilty 100% without a doubt, but I base that solely on fact and evidence. I just really hope you see the deep flaw in your logic because it really is detrimental to society.

[–]MM7299 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've just rarely seen the mental gymnastics and denial about facts that people who want Adnan out engage in.

see you can say the same thing about guilters

his disturbing family

good grief

really adore someone

wow....no one really adores Adnan though, except maybe his mother

The racism directed at Jay, the black members of the jury, Inez and Thiru,

except there wasn't racism directed at any of those people....

about non existent Islamophobia.

well his bail hearing did have a good bit of Islamophobia so its not non-existent.

[–]KeepingMyJob310 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Also, if he was rich and White, we wouldn't know his name. SK wouldn't have picked it for Serial, IMO.

[–]Wicclair [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Actually, Serial came to her. She didn't go out seeking to make a podcast.

[–]redrich2000 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

It's pretty disgusting for you to project your own bigotry and hate onto Hae's family. It's you in hell, leave Hae's family out of it.

[–]OneReportersOpinion [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

It's better to let ten guilty men go free than man be wrongly convicted.

[–]DieGo2SHAE [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

They shouldn't get to take out their rage and grief on an innocent person.

[–]KeepingMyJob310 [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

They don't think he's innocent so I don't see why your post applies. You think he's innocent so you adore him. They think he killed Hae so there's no Adnan worship.

[–]ib_thinkinharbors reasonable doubt [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Because what they think and what is aren't necessarily the same thing.

[–]DieGo2SHAE [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

If we could all just make a hostage of whomever we ourselves judged to be guilty, there would be anarchy and vigilantism would be rampant. The courts have decided Adnan did not get a fair trial and is (legally speaking) potentially innocent. If they were fine when the courts made him guilty, they should be fine when the courts make him innocent and they can then find the real killer instead of targeting an innocent individual.

[–]KeepingMyJob310 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I understand respecting the court. I thought he was innocent, then switched to guilty around the PCR. I even said I thought the PCR would be granted for a number of reasons several times here on reddit. The problem is, I can't just jump on bandwagons. If I think someone who killed a young girl is going to be roaming around free, I'm concerned, it's simple. Same thing for Hae's family except multiply by 10,000

[–]ib_thinkinharbors reasonable doubt [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

What in the PCR made you switch?

[–]KeepingMyJob310 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It was a few weeks before the PCR, so not the PCR. I listened to UD and there were omissions and reasoning that made no sense. I started looking up the files myself online and had an epiphany one day: I believe he did it and just couldn't see any other way after mid January. I think the lies about his family,his behavior after the police got involved and the unlikelihood Jay could frame him w/o Adnan's knowledge just kept nagging me. I wrote up a post about my epiphany, I'll have to find it. PCR: not that it ended mattering but Asia was so embarrassing, I couldn't defend her around my friends and family - they know me too well and I can't stand people like her (the book,low iq, accusing everyone of felonies)

[–]ib_thinkinharbors reasonable doubt [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'd really like to read your epiphany post. Let me know if you can find it.

[–]Braincloud [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

You have no fucking certainty that he's innocent. And furthermore you don't get to dictate how they should or should not feel or believe about this. For good or ill the beliefs and feelings of Hae's family will have no bearing on the legal outcome - so leave them and their feelings out of your pitiful display of triumph here.

[–]DieGo2SHAE [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You have no fucking certainty that he's innocent

And you, her family, and the legal system have no certainty that he is guilty but you all want his blood to spill anyways. When there is no certainty or something more than reasonably close to it, innocence is presumed.

[–]Braincloud [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm sorry, have I asked for anyone's blood to be spilled? Last I checked the only one who spilled blood here was Adnan. I'm quite happy with him sitting his faux-pious ass in jail.