jump to content
my subreddits
more »
Want to join? Log in or sign up in seconds.|
[-]
use the following search parameters to narrow your results:
subreddit:subreddit
find submissions in "subreddit"
author:username
find submissions by "username"
site:example.com
find submissions from "example.com"
url:text
search for "text" in url
selftext:text
search for "text" in self post contents
self:yes (or self:no)
include (or exclude) self posts
nsfw:yes (or nsfw:no)
include (or exclude) results marked as NSFW
e.g. subreddit:aww site:imgur.com dog
this post was submitted on
1 point (52% upvoted)
shortlink:
reset password
Subreddit Info

Sino

subscribeunsubscribe2,073 readers readers
~9 currently online users here now

有朋自遠方來 Hi friends:

r/Sino is a subreddit for news, information, and discussion on anything China and Chinese related. Read the general guideline before posting.

WeChat Group(微信群) and Slack Chat:

We have 2 WeChat groups: English and Chinese. We'll contact you based on your submissions.

Related Subreddits:

below is in trial phase, subject to future changes

Flair Search:

Weekly Roundups:

General Guidelines:

  1. Follow Reddit's general guidelines https://www.reddit.com/help/contentpolicy
  2. Don't troll (in any form including concern trolling), flame bait, engage in subreddit drama
  3. No brigading, reddit links (np included) might require manual mod approval
  4. Stay true to the topic of discussion. Don't use tangents to divert into vaguely connected agendas. Don't deteriorate into off topic attacks (personal, racial, political).
created by FeatsOverComments- Chinesea community for
No problem. We won't show you that ad again. Why didn't you like it?
Oops! I didn't mean to do this.
discuss this ad on reddit
This subreddit uses the /r/Naut theme.
0
1
2
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
submitted by thetemples
As a disclaimer, I am not being racist towards Anglos or White poeple, this is a purely cultural observation. And this does not necessarily apply to Franco, Scandinavian, Latin or Germanic culture -- only Anglo culture.
As an overseas Chinese person in America, the concept of "image" was a difficult Anglo cultural facet to understand.
Back in China, we are judged more on our merits rather than how we look. In Anglo America culture, I find that people are more concerned with how they are perceived by others (complete strangers) compared to China, where we only care about what our family and closest friends think.
I've learned that Anglo culture revolves entirely around "image" and that image is the most important thing in their culture.
You are judged solely how you look, talk, and your mannerisms rather than your character or actions in glorious Anglo culture.
A good example is politics.
A politician like Hilary Clinton can use certain catchphrases and issues to give the perception that she is liberal, when in reality, her voting and policy history proves otherwise. If only China could prop up a minority president, then China could do whatever they wanted on the world stage without criticism.
In Anglo social media, one tweet can end your career. When Justin Timberlake tweeted about the BET awards and didn't acknowledge appropriation of black culture, people hated on him and totally forgot about his 20 year body of work. I'm not saying he was right, but it was hilarious for me to observe as a Chinese person. It shows that Anglo culture is only surface-deep.
Another example is how many supposed "vegans" in Anglo countries will refuse to eat meat or dairy, yet buy expensive leather (artisinal) shoes or take drugs tested on animals. Yes, Molly, Adderall and Marijuana are tested on animals.
To say one thing and do the other as long as you maintain the image of being "real" is what Anglo culture revolves around.
"Image" is far more important to Anglos than "face" is to Asians. Entire industries are based around image such as PR, Marketing, and Media.
In China, we just call it propaganda, we don't give it a fancy name to keep up an innocent image.
There are entire educational courses dedicated to teaching "brand management" or "image consulting". You can even make a career out of it.
In China we don't care as much about looking hipster/trendy enough or acting cool, we'd rather stay true to ourselves. That's why artists in China don't look look like your "typical" artist, they look like a normal "joe" off the street.
But in America, you are judged by how many Instagram followers you have and how tight your manbun is.
The ironic part is that hipsters are supposed to not give off a vibe of not giving a fuck about what others think, yet their entire existence is based on what others think. This is a strange and bizarre concept for Chinese people to comprehend.
Anglo culture can be toxic to people's sanity, which is why so many people are on antidepressents or anti-anxiety pills -- because the pressure to present an "image" is so painstakingly high and oppressive.
Like in the movie "American Psycho", Patrick Bateman is consumed with presenting the image of being a model citizen who cares for humanity and the good of others (and a feminist to boot). Behind closed doors, he's a wonton psycho who gets pleasure off other people's pain and hates women/minorities.
Anglo's obsession with image is impacts every decision they make and every facet of their lives. Many Americans refuse to leave the house due to societal pressure to have the perfect image.
And of course, Chinese people probably have the worst image out of all other groups in Anglo countries. Americans judge me for my clothes, my accent, my country of origin and my physical features rather than my character.
It wasn't until I started wearing trendy hipster clothes, refined my accent and grew a beard that I started getting treated better. I learned to play their game to survive.
It's a nasty consequence of living in toxic Anglo culture, but you gotta do what you gotta do. In Anglo culture, what matters is what you say (and how look look when saying it) rather than what you do. You can drown a bunch of kittens as long as you take a selfie protesting for PETA.
You can be a closet necrophiliac as long as you present the right image to society because in Anglo culture, image is all that matters. Not your family, not your self-worth, not your achievements, but how strangers/society view you.
Like the borg, you will be assimilated or face the consequences.
all 31 comments
sorted by:
new (suggested)
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]NH4NO3 • 4 points• 5 points• 6 points  (3 children)
I'm Anglo-American. I don't really agree with your analysis of American culture. The examples you provided, of politicians, some celebrities, and a minority of vegans are honestly the most extreme examples I can think of people who overly care about their image in American culture, and not at all reflective of the general population.
Do you live in a major city on the west coast or NYC by any chance? Culture varies a lot in the US. I doubt you would come away with the impression that Americans are way more superficial and image obsessed if your experience of the US was mostly in Kansas or Iowa or the like. Most Americans live in places like that, not in the big cities. I would personally feel much the same way as you if I was living in Portland or something, except instead of thinking that "Americans" are so superficial and image obsessed, I would just think Portlanders are.
I actually think that some of the China is the way it is, is because much of its population which is relatively new to bigger cities. Thus even in larger cities, most people would still be putting more value there in family and close friends than random strangers.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]killingzoo • 0 points• 1 point• 2 points  (2 children)
Do you live in a major city on the west coast or NYC by any chance? Culture varies a lot in the US. I doubt you would come away with the impression that Americans are way more superficial and image obsessed if your experience of the US was mostly in Kansas or Iowa or the like. Most Americans live in places like that, not in the big cities. I would personally feel much the same way as you if I was living in Portland or something, except instead of thinking that "Americans" are so superficial and image obsessed, I would just think Portlanders are.
Interesting, then how do you explain Americans and American media denigrating "urban culture", or "ghetto culture", or "gangster culture"??
First Americans enslave and assimilate non-whites, and destroy their cultures, and when the African Americans form their own culture in America, they are derided as the inferior sub-culture.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]NH4NO3 • 2 points• 3 points• 4 points  (1 child)
I am actually not commenting at all about "ghetto culture" above. I am not really sure where you see the connection. Most people living in large cities aren't part of or even often exposed to "ghetto culture". As far as the media portraying it badly, I can't comment much on the accuracy of it. My personal experience is that people who strongly associate themselves with gangster culture tend to be extremely self-destructive. Rap music is closely associated with the sub-culture and is fairly popular and mainstream if you could interpret that as positive portrayal
As far as your second comments goes, "ghetto culture" is not the same as the culture of black people. There are tons of "ghetto" or "gangster" non-black people. In plenty of places, the "ghetto" area doesn't even have that many black people. There are, in fact, a ton of black people who would be pretty insulted by the insinuation that black culture is necessarily "ghetto" or "gangster".
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]killingzoo • -1 points• 0 points• 1 point  (0 children)
There are, in fact, a ton of black people who would be pretty insulted by the insinuation that black culture is necessarily "ghetto" or "gangster".
Williams also didn’t mince words on cultural appropriation at the 2016 BET Awards:
We’re done watching, and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us. Burying black people out of sight and out of mind, while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil — black gold. Ghettoizing and demeaning our creations then stealing them. Gentrifying our genius and then trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]TheeNay3 • 5 points• 6 points• 7 points  (1 child)
In China, we just call it propaganda, we don't give it a fancy name to keep up an innocent image
In the U.S. they call the bribing of politicians lobbying. This is yet another example of image enhancement rather than saving face.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]Aristodemos94 • 1 point• 2 points• 3 points  (25 children)
Just remember that the idea of saving face has it's origins in China. Chinese are very much about image, they can just hide it better.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]killingzoo [score hidden]  (0 children)
I'll put it in another way that perhaps makes it easier for you to understand:
Chinese don't market their "face" like Donald Trump (and many others) market /campaign based on their "image".
The fact that so many Western politicians are campaigning based on their "image" of morality should tell you how shameless the Western culture is.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]killingzoo • 1 point• 2 points• 3 points  (10 children)
Er No.
"Face" in Asian culture is dependent upon one's conduct, not appearances.
We call it "face", but it has nothing to do with how we look.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]Aristodemos94 • 0 points• 1 point• 2 points  (9 children)
I agree, and so does image. However, it's how one conducts oneself in the presences of others that matters for face/image. For example, my SO's grandmother would not fight with her mother about selling a house in front of me because it would make the face of the family look bad. It's similar in America.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]wtfwhiteppl- Chinese • 0 points• 1 point• 2 points  (0 children)
For example, my SO's grandmother would not fight with her mother about selling a house in front of me because it would make the face of the family look bad. It's similar in America.
no, it was beneficial for you.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]thetemples[S] • 1 point• 2 points• 3 points  (0 children)
And I mentioned that Chinese only care about what their family/friends think, not strangers. While it's the opposite in Anglo culture. You can burp, fart and be annoying to friends and family, but would never let that slip in public.
And again, conduct is different from how you look or your physical appearance.
Because outside IMAGE IS EVERYTHING in America.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]killingzoo • 3 points• 4 points• 5 points  (6 children)
it's how one conducts oneself in the presences of others that matters for face/image.
That might be how you understand image in America.
my SO's grandmother would not fight with her mother about selling a house in front of me because it would make the face of the family look bad.
I think that was for the benefit of your "face", not theirs.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]Aristodemos94 • 0 points• 1 point• 2 points  (5 children)
Do you have an article that can help me understand what you mean by face then?
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]killingzoo • 2 points• 3 points• 4 points  (4 children)
"face" is closest in meaning to honor and shame.
In Chinese tradition,
四維八德: 禮、義、廉、耻稱為國之「四維」。忠、孝、仁、愛、信、義、和、平 為「八德」
八德：xiao 孝 "filial piety", di 悌 "sibling piety", zhong 忠 "loyalty; fidelity", xin 信 "trust; believe", li 禮 "ritual; rites; courtesy", yi 義 "righteousness; right conduct", lian 廉 "upright; honorable; integrity", and zhi 恥 "humility; shame"
These describe the basic elements of virtue. Most of them are virtues of honor, whereas 耻 is shame, based on conducts, not appearances.
丢脸: literally means "lose face", but actually means "humiliation".
留面子: Literally means "save face", but actually means "save honor".
爭面子: Literally means "fight for face", but actually means "fight for honor".
脸 is the confidence of society in a person's moral character, which equates to a person's virtuous behavior, 品德.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]Aristodemos94 • 2 points• 3 points• 4 points  (3 children)
And how do these definitions hold up when put into practice? Is every Chinese person perfect when it comes to using face in the right way?
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]killingzoo • 3 points• 4 points• 5 points  (2 children)
The definitions show the underlying priority of real and ancient moralities.
Whereas politicians in the West wear moralities on lips like cheap lipsticks.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]Aristodemos94 • 2 points• 3 points• 4 points  (1 child)
And you don't think that eastern politicians, in specific Chinese politicians, have this problem?
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]killingzoo [score hidden]  (0 children)
No, "eastern politicians" don't claim to be examples of high morality.
While Western politicians campaigns on the "moral values" that they violate every day. That's the very definition of "shamelessness".
It's actually quite simple, but you don't see it, which is even more shameful for Western culture, the culture of shamelessness.
China's "founding father", Confucius, was a teacher, who taught poor and rich and abhorred slavery and class, and died poor in exile teaching to his many students. While the American founding fathers owned slaves and talked of virtue of freedom (of owning their properties).
China's politicians can be corrupt (like humans can be corrupt), but they do not claim the mantle of morality. The corrupt men know that they have no virtue. While Western politicians lie every day, and still claim moral superiority of themselves and their "system".
Confucius once said, when the People has only laws, they will only know fear, but will have no shame.
The West has its laws, and America imprisons 1% of its population to keep its population in fear. And yet, men like Trump shamelessly parade their cheating lying ways as success.
The West admire greatness of Rome and Greece, but copy their horrible mistakes of slavery and conquest.
The West claims to honor its soldiers and yet treat them like paupers and beggars.
Do you think that's the West's way of "face"? the West knows no "face", no pride, and no shame.
"freedom" has become the West's excuse for having no shame.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]TheeNay3 • 6 points• 7 points• 8 points  (7 children)
Saving face is about avoiding embarrassment or humiliation. The concept of image as outlined by OP is about being two-faced.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]Aristodemos94 • 0 points• 1 point• 2 points  (6 children)
I have no problems with his anger at people who are two-faced. However, my point is that there are plenty of people in China who use saving face as a way to be two-faced, and that such things are not inherent in Anglo culture.
It's like if I said you damn dirty Chinese and your use of Guanxi. Sure, certain uses of Guanxi are toxic and bad, but it does appear in other cultures and it's not permanent throughout Chinese culture.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]TheeNay3 • 4 points• 5 points• 6 points  (2 children)
I was simply trying to point out the difference in meaning between the two concepts. Nowhere did I say that you couldn't incoporate one into the other.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]Aristodemos94 • 1 point• 2 points• 3 points  (1 child)
Am I correct in reading this as, "I want to say they are different, but they are similar in a relevant way."?
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]TheeNay3 • 1 point• 2 points• 3 points  (0 children)
More like: "They are as different as different can be, but there is no reason you couldn't combine them."
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]thetemples[S] • 1 point• 2 points• 3 points  (2 children)
Look, I'm not saying one is worse than the other, they're just different. There are downsides to communism, but also upsides -- like not caring about image.
If you think about it, western democracy breeds an obsession with image because politicians must appeal to the public. And since people are too dumb to study policy, they only look at face-value or appearance.
It has become a popularity contest, and anyone who has been around popular kids know that they only care about image.
Most Trump supporters don't realize trump was a Democrat, but focus on his rediculous persona instead.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]Aristodemos94 • 0 points• 1 point• 2 points  (1 child)
Sorry, I can't hear you over the obvious corrupt use of guanxi that killed over 80,000 people in that one town I can't mention because of government censorship! Were you saying something about how toxic America is because it likes certain hairstyles?
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]thetemples[S] • -1 points• 0 points• 1 point  (0 children)
Lol nice deflection. Sexpats love using whataboutism. I'm sorry that your culture taught you to distract instead of argue.
That's like me bringing up the Waco massacre to fight an argument about "face".
You argue like you're a 65 year old autistic. Name the town or gtfo. Nobody has kidnapped you for bashing China online.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]thetemples[S] • 7 points• 8 points• 9 points  (4 children)
Saving face is different from Image. Are you actually saying the West learned "image" from China? LOL.
They are two completely different concepts in the east and west, as I've outlined in the post.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]Aristodemos94 • 3 points• 4 points• 5 points  (3 children)
A politician like Hilary Clinton can use certain catchphrases and issues to give the perception that she is liberal, when in reality, her voting and policy history proves otherwise.
And Chinese officials claim they are not corrupt when in reality they are. Isn't there some taboo about talking about a certain town in China, it lead to some arrests when mentioned. You're in America, you can probably look that up. People in China differently can't.
In Anglo social media, one tweet can end your career. When Justin Timberlake tweeted about the BET awards and didn't acknowledge appropriation of black culture, people hated on him and totally forgot about his 20 year body of work. I'm not saying he was right, but it was hilarious for me to observe as a Chinese person. It shows that Anglo culture is only surface-deep.
What does this have to do with image? I haven't paid attention to the BET awards, but it sounds like there is something wrong with them being disproportionately white. Is it not something that should be looked into, so when someone tries to ignore it, that has something to do with their "merits."
Another example is how many supposed "vegans" in Anglo countries will refuse to eat meat or dairy, yet buy expensive leather (artisinal) shoes or take drugs tested on animals. Yes, Molly, Adderall and Marijuana are tested on animals.
Does this have anything to do with Anglo culture though? You can find hypocrites and vegans in any culture, even China.
In China we don't care as much about looking hipster/trendy enough or acting cool, we'd rather stay true to ourselves. That's why artists in China don't look look like your "typical" artist, they look like a normal "joe" off the street.
Here are a few examples that this is false in China.
I usually don't shave for a long time in America because my beard really doesn't grow and it's light enough (blond) to not notice, however when I try to "stay true to myself" in China, my SO says, "No, honey, you have to shave, people will think bad of you if you don't shave."
I like to hug and kiss, even in public, but if I do so in China, people will think that I'm too free-spirited or that my SO is a slut. So I can't be myself in that aspect either.
Also, have you considered that in America people wear "hipster" clothes because they like too and it's just the fashion in America, and the only reason Chinese people don't is because it's just not fashionable in China? It seems you are judging the culture of American artists by the culture of Chinese artists.
But in America, you are judged by how many Instagram followers you have and how tight your manbun is.
Well now my question is what circumstances lead to be associated with people who wear manbuns in America and why you think this is representative of all people in America.
The ironic part is that hipsters are supposed to not give off a vibe of not giving a fuck about what others think, yet their entire existence is based on what others think. This is a strange and bizarre concept for Chinese people to comprehend.
In what way is "hipster" culture "Anglo" culture. Maybe you have been hanging around in the wrong crowd. I've certainly have seen such people in China. So hipster culture isn't unique to Anglicans.
Anglo culture can be toxic to people's sanity, which is why so many people are on antidepressents or anti-anxiety pills -- because the pressure to present an "image" is so painstakingly high and oppressive.
Ah yes, because a culture in which being gay/lesbian is so taboo that people marry just to have children and then forget about their spouse so much less toxic than one that cares about hair fashion. Once again, I think you'll find that there are many parallels to Chinese culture and Anglo culture, the problem being is how they evolved.
Like in the movie "American Psycho", Patrick Bateman is consumed with presenting the image of being a model citizen who cares for humanity and the good of others (and a feminist to boot). Behind closed doors, he's a wonton psycho who gets pleasure off other people's pain and hates women/minorities.
In what possible world are the audience of American Psycho supposed to feel that the world presented in the movie anything other than batshit insane?
Anglo's obsession with image is impacts every decision they make and every facet of their lives. Many Americans refuse to leave the house due to societal pressure to have the perfect image.
See gay/lesbian comment above.
And of course, Chinese people probably have the worst image out of all other groups in Anglo countries. Americans judge me for my clothes, my accent, my country of origin and my physical features rather than my character.
Maybe the people you hang out with are just shallow people, certainly there are people just as shallow in China.
It wasn't until I started wearing trendy hipster clothes, refined my accent and grew a beard that I started getting treated better. I learned to play their game to survive.
You have to act similar to those in a clique in order to be accepted in the clique? Say it isn't so! Next you'll be telling me that Chinese Anime fans will not tend to be freinds with people who hate anime because they don't share similar interests.
It's a nasty consequence of living in toxic Anglo culture, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
I can think of more toxic parts of Chinese culture...
You can be a closet necrophiliac as long as you present the right image to society because in Anglo culture, image is all that matters. Not your family, not your self-worth, not your achievements, but how strangers/society view you.
Well, wasn't there just a rape story from a teacher in China where the girl wasn't believed at all because the teacher was able to save face? Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can see the parallel.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]thetemples[S] • 2 points• 3 points• 4 points  (2 children)
How predictable, more whataboutisms that try to compare Chinese culture as being the same as American culture. Strawman.
If Chinese people truly cared about image, then they would make the president a Tibetan puppet and have more attractive politicians.
A lot of expats complain that Chinese people are rude and they only care about family and no one else -- that's a consequence of not caring about image.
Notice how Anglos are overly polite in public, yet do horrible things when no one is watching? i.e. the murder of the Chinese student in Australia by her uncle.
And the media does nothing but bash China and tarnish China's image, yet China doesn't fight back because they DGAF about what others think.
Look at American foreign policy, it's entirely dictated by perception rather than results or actions. It's OK to bomb innocent arabs as long as the public is distracted and agrees with the government in general.
You talk about being gay in China? It's much easier to be gay than in places in the ME or India or Pakistan. Gays in China just live their lives normally, they don't go out of their way to prove how gay they are just to earn brownie points for being "cool".
No one in china hates or loves gays. People are treated like people. In America, if you are gay or black, people will go out of their way to be friendly -- to the point of fakeness.
In America, there's the "cool gays" and the not cool gays -- it's become a competition of image rather than realness. While the LGBT movement may have had good intentions in the beginning, it didn't take long before Anglo culture made it all about image and superficiality.
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]Aristodemos94 • -1 points• 0 points• 1 point  (1 child)
How predictable, more whataboutisms that try to compare Chinese culture as being the same as American culture. Strawman.
What do you mean about whataboutisms? Is that a fallacy you pulled out of your ass? Can we start playing the fallacy game now, I think you started it by calling strawman. I CALL FALLACY FALLACY I THEREFORE WIN EVER ARGUMENT EVER.
A lot of people complain that Chinese people are rude and they only care about family and no one else -- that's a consequence of not caring about image.
Maybe it's a consequence of being complete assholes, and that's the problem people complain about?
Notice how Anglos are overly polite in public, yet do horrible things when no one is watching? i.e. the murder of the Chinese student in Australia by her uncle.
Yes, because obviously rape and murder never happen in China. No, China's face is spotless, well at least as far as anyone else is supposed to know.
Look at American foreign policy, it's entirely dictated by perception rather than results or actions.
Yes, that's why we fought a war for years that almost no one liked, because it really looked good for our image.
And if America really cared about it's image, don't you think it wouldn't bomb those people, or at least limit how people talk about it -- a la China and that one city. You do know many Americans critize the war on terror and the American government for what it is doing. But no, it's all about image for them, it's just that America looks bad that Americans critize their government, it's obviously not because they are fucking human and care about people.
You talk about being gay in China? It's much easier to be gay than in places in the ME or India or Pakistan. Gays in China just live their lives normally, they don't go out of their way to prove how gay they are just to earn brownie points for being "cool".
HEY GUYS, BEING GAY ISN'T A PROBLEM IN AMERICA AND YOU LOOK COOL IF YOU DO IT. GUYS? Guys? Oh wait, the people I was just talking to got shot for being gay. Oh well, at least I have my friend Alan here with me.. And he just got sent to a gay conversion camp with an abusive therapist.
Yeah, people come out as gay just to look cool.
No one in china hates or loves gays. People are treated like people. In America, if you are gay or black, people will go out of their way to be friendly -- to the point of fakeness.
Have you had your brain scrambled?
For content that does not contribute to any discussion.
[–]hwfiddlehead [score hidden]  (0 children)
Gay people are treated way better in most Western countries than they are in China. This is not really all that important, but if you are trying to defend China by suggesting the opposite, you are being crazy.
Aristodemos94 is right on point here.
Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy (updated). © 2016 reddit inc. All rights reserved.
REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc.
π Rendered by PID 14105 on app-392 at 2016-07-01 10:48:17.856870+00:00 running aaa9f9d country code: DE.
Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies.  Learn More
0%
 
10%
 
20%
 
30%
 
40%
 
50%
 
60%
 
70%
 
80%
 
90%
 
100%