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The Game was stolen on Google (self.gamedev)

bladek23 が 投稿

Hi guys, a few months ago Ketchapp launched Stack (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ketchapp.stack&hl=en) they are kind of shocked and happy because the game is close to 50.000.000 downloads right now in Android, but that is not important in this moment. Today I discovered this ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ag.slicemania&hl=en ) someone has downloaded the apk, uploaded in Google and is winning People's Award Choice. I dont know exactly what can you do in this situation, there is some kind of "report" in Google? How is possible that Google dont check this and let you upload stolen apps! /s /u/sirramza

EDIT: I apologize for the unnecessary drama. I never intended this to get much attention. I just couldn't stand the hypocrisy, that's all. Link to sirramza's response.

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[–]NoDownvotesPlease 238ポイント239ポイント  (69子コメント)

Wait a second.

So the guy who complained about someone stealing his app on amazon yesterday has himself stolen someone else's app?

lol

[–]TheNonMan 147ポイント148ポイント  (17子コメント)

This is why I'll never be interested in the mobile game market. I'm sure some people work hard and try to be good devs, but overall it seems like a lot of low-effort horse shit and stolen/cloned games. Ontop of that you're trying to market to the ficklest of audiences.

[–]Naxum 67ポイント68ポイント  (4子コメント)

As a developer who tries to make high quality games on mobile: YEP

[–]olivaw_another 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

The situation is concerning, but sadly, not surprising.

As game developers, we want to bring something fresh & original to the masses! Why would we spend countless hours and sacrifice so much if we're simply copying someone else's art?

The problem is twofold: first, app discovery is broken. Second, consumers want things that are familiar to them. There's a reason why franchises in the game and movie world do so well, even if they bring nothing new to the table. From a risk perspective, it is MUCH more profitable (low risk/high reward) to invest time and energy into a project that is based (or copy pasta'd) on someone else's game idea. It is much harder to introduce new game mechanics and intellectual property than it is to use or copy someone else's established game mechanics and IP.

I truly believe that once issue #1 gets addressed (more YouTube streamers, better App Store curation, better curation tools on Steam and elsewhere, creation of more indie press), great games will be found again on mobile. We just gotta get through the growing pains.

[–]CrypticTryptic 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Link? I'm broke till payday, but I like supporting mobile devs who make high quality stuff.

[–]Dr_Dornon 21ポイント22ポイント  (7子コメント)

I had a friend in high school that was so excited that SwiftKey came to iOS. She wanted it badly, but refused and dropped the idea when she found out it cost $0.99. She said she doesn't bother with any apps that aren't free...

[–]am0x 15ポイント16ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yea I had some app my mom and sister thought was awesome. I used it everyday. They also wanted the app, but when I said it was $3.99 they scoffed.

$3.99 for something you would use everyday and you are complaining? Cmon.

[–]Dr_Dornon 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

This was $0.99 and she was so excited for it until I said the price... That's less than one dollar! Are you kidding me?

[–]BoTuLoX 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Given the practices of milking their customers dry being so common in the mobile industry, is it any surprise that users have their FUD shields raised every time they see a price tag in the App/Play Store?

[–]Dr_Dornon 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

She'll gladly play a f2p game that does that, but not pay a one time fee for something she'd use every single day, probably more than anything else?

[–]BoTuLoX 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, that's the point. It's a vicious circle. They expect the games to be like that so they think they're just getting robbed if on top of that they have to pay to access the game.

Even if you point out in bold letters "this game contains no microtransactions" in the description, between the people that don't read the description and the people who don't know what a microtransaction is you just lost the majority of your hits to this phenomenon.

[–]RiOrius 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it's the other way around. Free apps predate the microtransaction boom. People got so used to things being free on mobile that developers had to find sneaky ways of making money.

[–]cleroth [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Don't you need a CC to buy things on the app store though? You don't have a CC when you're in high school (at least not in my days...?).

[–]Katana314 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

The way I've described it to people is: Yes, there is more money in mobile gaming than core gaming. Yet, there is even less control of how that money will come around. Once a trend is found, no one else will successfully duplicate it.

You also have to completely bankrupt yourself morally to be a part of it. Whales aren't rich people - they're people with poor spending control.

[–]kabekew 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

What are you basing that on? Newzoo figures show PC and console games still over 55% of the market.

[–]oi_rohe [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Smaller dev teams, I'd imagine. Sure infinite warfare will make a fair profit, but it's divided between a large group of people, mainly as salaries. If you make crossy road on your own or with 2-5 other people, you all split the full profit of having made it, and only between six people. You stand to make more personal wealth developing a hit mobile game than a AAA computer/console game.

[–]Katana314 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The figures I mentioned were true maybe about 4 years ago, for a different publication's analysis (this was back when I worked for a mobile gaming company). Things may have changed, or maybe one of those two publications is using skewed numbers.

[–]junkmanuk 28ポイント29ポイント  (2子コメント)

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/4qgn3g/our_game_was_stolen_on_amazon/

Exactly what I thought... /u/Sirramza - care to comment?

[–]JThistl3 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Someone needs to archive this post so that there is proof if it's deleted.

[–]poohshoesMoonBus, Kradens Crypt 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And that someone is you...

[–]richmondavid@bigosaur 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

Interesting reply on the steal claim in the ratings: 

"As a game company and publisher we constantly have game
design mechanics and submissions in the pipeline, it may be a
coincidence but as mobile markets expands many games have
similar gameplay than others, its a market of over 3MM apps. "

[–]NoDownvotesPlease 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

Sure it's totally possible for two different people to have the same idea at the same time. However, based on the screenshots it seems like they've implemented it in almost the exact same visual style too.

[–]richmondavid@bigosaur 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

There's no doubt they cloned Ketchup's game. What's interesting is that they pretend like they didn't.

[–]NoDownvotesPlease 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

I can remember the people that cloned Luftrausers saying something similar.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/22/4252628/vlambeers-luftrausers-clone-skyfar

Vlambeer had reached out to them a "few weeks back," and accused them of cloning and lifting assets directly from Luftrausers. Rubiq Lab denied the claim, adding that it was a year-long development effort using "many tools," and that, "in media most of the things looks [sic] similar."

[–]cleroth 41ポイント42ポイント  (21子コメント)

Yes. This is what this sub has devolved into. People creating celebrity-like gossip stories to promote their game. And you guys fall for it. I wouldn't be surprised if the dev in question actually uploaded the 'cloned game' himself on Amazon and claimed someone else was stealing his game, just to create a newstory.

[–]theowlfromzelda 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/gamedevcirclejerk

[–]The13Beast 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

Did you not notice that his game that was stolen was a straight up Crossy Road rip-off?

[–]NoDownvotesPlease 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

To be honest I don't really know much about mobile gaming. I've never actually played Crossy Road myself. Based on the screenshots it looks different enough that I wouldn't call it a clone, but it does seem heavily inspired by Crossy Road.

[–]H8-Bit 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

And Crossy Road is just endless Frogger.

[–]thescribbler_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

How dare you belittle Crossy Road like that! Frogger is the clone! /s

[–]Qender 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

What are you talking about? Yesterday's post was a game called "splashy cats". This one is about stacking boxes. Those are not the same game. Am I missing something?

Edit: I see now. Same company

[–]shadowplanner 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

You sure it isn't someone from the same company as the other guy? That post is worded almost identically to the Amazon one.

[–]NoDownvotesPlease 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm pretty sure the OP was deliberately parodying that post to call out the company for being hypocrites.

[–]tyleratwork22 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Honest question, apart from copying a game from scratch, how does this happen? Is it mostly on Android? Where they are somehow able to reverse engineer it? Is iOS safer?

[–]NoDownvotesPlease 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Another comment said this specific example was mostly a unity asset pack. So I'm guessing anyone could download it and make the same game.

I think it is technically possible to reverse engineer android games depending on the way they're written. I know Java classes can be decompiled into usable source code anyway.

[–]tyleratwork22 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

That link is taken down now... so would Ketchapp have sold their own example on a store?

[–]cleroth [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Or Ketchapp also got it from the Asset Store from someone else, while also requesting it be taken off the Asset Store.

[–]tyleratwork22 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

God, wouldn't that be rich.

[–]cleroth [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Pretty sure that's most likely the case. Both Ketchapp and ArtikGames have a game that is basically a reskin of yet another Asset Store game. See here.

[–]Kelpow 48ポイント49ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't know if anyone know's this, but this game can be pulled right off the Unity asset store. Fun fact.

Edit: I have just checked the asset store and the download I mentioned seems to have been pulled.

[–]Reficul_gninromrats 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Could be this https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/56901

Or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acTj9IamVc4 or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAZx5VCdq_c

[–]Kelpow 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That asset store page is it, thank you

[–]poohshoesMoonBus, Kradens Crypt -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Clearly OP is trolling/baiting us. Also "People's Award Choice" is not a thing, lol.

The "thief" has also used the "People's Award Choice" on http://artikgames.com/splashy/ which the "thief" posted about the other day someone else stealing on amazon.

[–]madkatalpha 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm extra amused that SplashyCats is a re-skinned copy & paste of the ZigZag app that Ketchapp has.

Granted, SplashyCats has a bit more character, but the text description is ridiculous:

ZigZag:

Just tap the screen to change the direction of the ball. Try not to fall off the edges!

How far can you go?

SplashyCats:

Just tap the screen to change the direction of the kitten. Try not to fall off the edges!

[–]baadaa2000 31ポイント32ポイント  (13子コメント)

Well that is Ketchapp's business model for a long time now.

[–]ernie-kun 48ポイント49ポイント  (12子コメント)

He's being sarcastic. This is referencing the other post on the front page where a guy is complaining that someone stole his game. Turns out he stole a game from someone else(even if it's Ketchapp).

[–]jonatcer 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Link?

[–]baadaa2000 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

oh. o_O;

[–]bladek23[S] 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

You're not wrong though. Ketchapp and many others are doing it as well. The marketplace is clogged with copy-pasted apps. It doesn't boost creativity and small creators have a hard time when a bigger one ships the same game the next day. Its a shame really.

[–]kabekew 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's why "barrier to entry" is so important with any business. If your product can be easily replicated within a few months without any particular domain or technical knowledge, it's going to be a race to the bottom.

[–]NoDownvotesPlease 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes even Gameloft who seem to be one of the biggest mobile games companies. Half of their titles look like clones of well known console games.

[–]a_little_obscene 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is pretty much all Gameloft has ever done. Only difference is they do a pretty good job and make it different enough that the games are still pretty fun.

[–]adarias 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I don't think Gameloft really belongs in this discussion. At least until recently, they employed a lot of very talented people, and while the elevator pitch is often "reimagine this popular title (typically one by Ubisoft given their close history) for mobile," I can guarantee you that they use 100% original assists and code. They also have real designers and creative directors on staff who are treated by the producers as peers, which is a rarity in companies that size.

The quality and originality of the design varies from studio to studio -- keep in mind that they have many, and at their peak employed over 5000 people. In the best cases you have things like Spider Man Unlimited - several years in development, with an "original" story (derivative yes licensed property yes but written entirely in house) that complemented the gameplay, polished as close to perfection as the platform could afford, offering a completely fresh take on the runner genre and I honestly think one of the best spidey games in a long while.

On the other hand you DO get a lot of dull rehashes, especially out of their Chinese studios, which are mostly "original" in the sense that they are hand-traced instead of copy-pasted. On top of that, more than half of their resources don't actually go to the new titles, but to downporting said titles for android and feature phones. I would say "it paid the bills" but given where the company is headed it probably didn't.

It's a real shame that HQ so terribly mismanaged things from the very top, leading to so many closings and the Vivendi conquest. If for instance the New York studio had been spun off instead of shut down, I have no doubt they could have figured out how to run lean and survive, and maybe we'd see more games like Unlimited instead of Soggy Dog Saga 2 : Saab Story

/rant

edit : spellz

[–]Danthekilla 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

There is a massive difference between someone cloneing/covering someone's game compared to just uploading the other persons game package with all their art and code assets.

[–]NoDownvotesPlease 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Definitely. Gameloft obviously has a lot of talented people working for them to be able to put out the games they do on mobile platforms. I tried one of them that was like a Crysis kind of game and it was super impressive to see it running on my phone.

[–]poohshoesMoonBus, Kradens Crypt 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Half of his games are clones of ketchapp games, I can only assume the others are clones of some other companies games.

[–]xensoldier 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sadly this is just a strong example of why the mobile game industry blows. Everyone clones what's trendy or.. just straight up rips off.

[–]zerooneinfinity 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

If a company does this, them and their games should be banned from a store. zero tolerance.

[–]comrad_gremlin 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wow, good catch. It seems that these guys are copying stuff themselves.

[–]Sydonai 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Twice as many games on the market means twice as many sales, right?

[–]ajustend 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

someone has downloaded the apk, uploaded in Google and is winning People's Choice Award.

Hahahaha, are you serious right now?

[–]Durahk 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think you missed the /s at the end of the post. For reference.

[–]ajustend 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeaaaah... I'll see myself out.

[–]Faps_McTickle 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This nonsense right here is why I'll NEVER develop for a mobile market.

What a mess.

[–]SlightlyInsane02Lead Developer of Envy Software 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I didn't know about the Ketchapp version of stack, and when I downloaded Stackmania yesterday I thought I was helping a developer who had their game stolen. After reading this post I deleted it immediately, he doesn't deserve my support. Wow, the mobile games market really is messed up!

[–]GetRektEntertainment 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

This seems like a marketing stunt. Also, why is this reddit post written in the exact same fashion as the one above it?

[–]Emi-gd 33ポイント34ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because it's funny that they steal from others and whine when somebody steals from them. ;)

[–]KineriusSixthVowel 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, this is the mobile world, always cloning other's games for profit.

[–]Ghulam_Jewel 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wait is the ketchapp apk uploaded directly or someone made their own clone version ?

If they uploaded the ketchapp apk then that is straight up theft.

But if they just made a clone then it is just a shameless clone and not theft or stolen.

[–]taranasushttp://void21.com/dev 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hold on hold on hold on. How can it win people's choice awards when the app itself only has like 5000-10000 downloads?

Also, if you must: Find the game on the play store, go down to flag as inappropriate, select "stolen IP", done.

[–]ratalaika 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dam, it's bad what's going on on the mobile market these days...

[–]mskuchiki 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

well i did realize this was some marketing strategy when i saw yesterday's post and thought it was kind of genius since it got so many upvotes, but having someone mimic the strategy today using the very same words is very annoying. i hope this stops with this one >_>

[–]poohshoesMoonBus, Kradens Crypt 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

The thief also made https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ag.splashycats&hl=en

which is stolen from Ketchapps https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ketchapp.zigzaggame&hl=en

and https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ag.twohelicopter&hl=en

which is stolen from https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ketchapp.twocars&hl=en

Looks like the guy we were sympathizing with yesterday because someone put his game on the Amazon store is game cloner with no original ideas.

[–]Sirramza [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owkajZc6kuI this is a game from Artik that is original

but imagine for a second that you are launching a few small games to make some test in the market: "maybe this name work better" "we could change the art in here" "oh users left at 2:43 minutes because of x"

then one day one of your small test games get featured, got 1 million downloads and a few developers are looking at everything that you are doing, and some of them dont like it

That is the picture, they are uploading a lot of small games to learn, i think that is good for them. The fact that Splashy got so big was a surprise, not a evil plan of some evil developer

[–]PokemasterTT 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I checked the developer and they have so many games out there. Probably a lot of copying.

[–]ColaColin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isn't it like work to make even a reskinned version of a game? I mean you can't really copy paste it, so you still have to write a new version of the same games that looks different right?! And that works as a businessmodel for some people? lol

[–]Cheese_Nocheese 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is there a reason this post is almost identical to this post?

[–]Sirramza -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

yep OP is making a "joke" about the original post

[–]GoHomeGrandmaUrHigh 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Curious: how much of Android app theft can be attributed to the Java programming language?

The last time I decompiled a Java program I got back source code that not only had well-named files, variables and functions, but even had comments completely intact in the source.

I know some people resort to using obfuscators (similar to HTML5 games using JS minifiers), but when the source is that easy to take apart and modify it's no wonder a game can be stolen and reposted within hours of its original upload.

[–]KenNLAsset Jesus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

A couple of days ago the developer of Splashy Cats also spammed their game on our Facebook group for Dutch indies.

[–]antlife 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Welp, we all just lost.

[–]shizzy0@shanecelis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gamedev has now reached the level of music entertainment where one instigates drama to help sales and get free marketing.

Did Trent Reznor and Marilyn Manson ever patch up their relationship?

[–]_nk [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What's peoples choice award?

[–]RaffBluffin -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fuck, I lost the game.