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THEORYEducation Isn't Always a Good Investment (self.RedPillWomen)

rproller27 | First Mate | LTR 4 years が 投稿

Despite the rising BP trends you see in China, it has spawned an old joke: "In China, there exist three genders: men, women, and women with PhDs." While the tone of the joke is meant to be lighthearted, it contains a LOT of RP truths.

 

He Just Isn't That Into You(r Degree)

Does a degree make him dinner? Raise his children? Get his rocks off? Chances are, he doesn't value your degree or job as much as you do. Sure, it might help you bring home a decent salary, but that's the only value it adds. Many PhDs do research and/or teach at the college level. This is great for advancing mankind, but it also consumes a lot of time and energy--time and energy that he would rather you use towards maintaining his castle/ship and raising his offspring.

 

The Wall

Just like Jon Snow, all women are destined for The Wall. A woman who pursues her education aggressively (Bachelor's at 22, Master's at 24-25, PhD at 28-30) and works for a few years afterward (33+) for financial stability is going to have a tough time finding a Captain. Don't get me wrong, getting an education and a job is just fine and dandy, but as I stated before, men don't value a woman's career/education as much as she does. In this case, she has even less to offer looks/fertility-wise because she can't compete with hot 22-year olds anymore.

 

Women and Men Aren't Equal, and Never Will Be

I have both male and female friends with PhDs. The men have no problems picking up a girl and maintaining an LTR. The women, however, either can't maintain a relationship or are perpetually single. This is because women value education and career (i.e., status) in men, but not the other way around. We humans aren't really as "evolved" as BPers like to think we are. The more a woman advances her career and education, the less relevant she becomes sexually . . . to the point where women with PhDs are considered an entirely separate gender!

 

Exceptions to the Rule

Obviously there are women with PhDs who experience great success in finding and maintaining a relationship. Great! More power to them. But I think that for the most part, women who pursue PhDs do narrow their dating pool considerably. Couple this with the flood of third-wave feminist lies like "I'm a strong, independent womyn who doesn't need a man," and it shouldn't come as a surprise that the only companions most of these women find are cats and other womyn.

[EDIT: Clarity, formatting]

[EDIT2: I'm not trying to discourage women from seeking higher education completely. I personally have a couple of arts/humanities bachelor's degrees and a master's degree in digital forensics. There should be a balance of family, and career/education.]

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[–]carabeara1 16ポイント17ポイント  (5子コメント)

I disagree, I've found that the best quality men are in my higher education classes as well as the excellent jobs I've acquired after graduation.

If you value an intelligent, successful partner, you have to be where they are in order to find them. You will find a number of them in your master's and PhD courses, as well as in those high paying jobs your degree had earned you.

(Anecdote: I've had no issue finding well paying jobs immediately after graduation and I was nowhere near the wall when I graduated, but YMMV. Many PhDs do take multiple years to achieve.)

Not only that, but you now have more in common and are able to connect with your partner on a level that he appreciates. You understand the stress of his job, his stories about coworkers and what he really enjoys about his chosen career field.

However, I believe women should be encouraged keep an open mind that they may need to end or at least diminish their careers to begin a family. Childfree redpill women may not need to diminish their career at all ('double income no kids' is a very sweet life if that's your into).

Instead of discouraging women into higher education (which I truly believe is harmful to men as well, but that's another subject for another time), I think we should be encouraging women to better themselves in this way for the benefit of their future family. Nurture the desire for knowledge as well as a feminine, loving, and kind nature and you CAN have both, just understand that for your own happiness, you may give up your high powered career for a family.

That's not a bad thing at all, it's just another choice we are lucky we have the freedom to choose.

[–]Akatchuk25 | Monk Mode 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'd agree with that. I think the real issue with educated women is when they constantly remind you of it (humble brag or not), because then your captain (or anyone around you) might feel as though they're competing with you, which is harmful to you both. The problem would likely disappear if you went for someone who's more educated than you/is in a higher-level position, though.

Sure, being less educated would mean access to a larger pool of men as the more educated you become and the fewer educated men you will meet, but I guess it depends on what you're looking for. I never realised how off-putting my education would be to men, but it's not something I can undo, it's not something I would want to undo, and if anything, it forces me to strive for men who are likely in better positions.

It's just about playing it smart. Don't force it down onto anyone if they don't ask, keep it simple if they do so they have nothing to feel threatened about, and turn the conversation back to them to make them realise they're more important to you than your diplomas. The only time your education should take precedence is when you're job-hunting - in my opinion, there's very few spheres in life where it needs a mention.

If they feel threatened by your education, at this point there's nothing you can do about it apart from either working on it if you feel so inclined, or move on to better things. It's probably a sign that they're not as driven and as motivated as they should be to be an ideal captain, if I'm perfectly honest. I would prefer to find someone willing to constantly surpass themselves and not settle for what they've got so far!

[–]carabeara1 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I definitely agree. Modesty and humbleness can be difficult the more education you achieve, as many fields are extremely competitive. Humbleness won't further your career, but it will further your social endeavors.

[–]rproller27 | First Mate | LTR 4 years[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would prefer to find someone willing to constantly surpass themselves and and settle for what they've got so far!

That's my personal preference as well. If my Captain were totally turned off by my education and career goals, and also refused to improve himself, I think I'd probably find another Captain.

[–]rproller27 | First Mate | LTR 4 years[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks for your long and thoughtful answer!

However, I believe women should be encouraged to keep an open mind that they may need to end or diminish their careers to begin a family.

This is one of the hardest things that I've had to come to terms with. I'm lucky that my Captain supports me in whatever I decide to do! If I want to pursue a career for life, he's happy for the double income. If it means giving up a career for a family, he is happy to adjust his work hours to compensate.

Instead of discouraging women into higher education

I don't think I made myself clear in my post--I'm not discouraging women from pursuing higher education at all. I personally have a master's in a STEM field. All I'm saying is that past a certain point, the time spent on education subtracts from a woman's SMV, but the reverse is true for men.

As you pointed out, women may have to give up their careers for a family. What a lot of women fail to understand is that they have to take responsibility for the choices they make. If she wants to pursue a PhD and a career and be established before starting a family, that's fine, but she also takes the chance of not finding enough high-quality men (who are also interested in her) by the time she achieves her professional and academic goals.

[–]Akatchuk25 | Monk Mode 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

As you pointed out, women may have to give up their careers for a family. What a lot of women fail to understand is that they have to take responsibility for the choices they make. If she wants to pursue a PhD and a career and be established before starting a family, that's fine, but she also takes the chance of not finding enough high-quality men (who are also interested in her) by the time she achieves her professional and academic goals.

This is definitely true. I see all these "can women have it all?" articles in women's magazines and feel as though we're fed lies about being able to be highly educated AND having a great career AND having a family AND the perfect husband. Stop and reassess, something will have to give in, it's a matter of deciding what and being ok with that, really.

[–]bonerdude42029 | LTR 7 years 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

My partner is high educated, she believes it boosts her attractiveness but it is completely attraction neutral. If I am listing the things I like about her or what attracts me to her, it wouldn't even get a mention.

[–]rproller27 | First Mate | LTR 4 years[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Straight from the horse's mouth!

[–]ColdEiricSingle Guy, 26 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

My partner is high educated, she believes it boosts her attractiveness but it is completely attraction neutral.

She was or is a nerd isn't she? Because I've noticed that girls studying something without having her own passionate curiosity in her subject, they give me a vibe of 'I'm fed up with stupid men, I'm doing this to meet and marry a higher quality man'.

Non-nerdy girls studying is too try-hard for me. Looks way off.

[–]TheThingsIThink 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

All my female profs are either married to PhDs, with the exemption to one that was a banking VP that got divorced and lost her job in the 08 downturn and went back to school.

@ my school it seems to be male:female=3:1 so one would be really narrowing their pool.

[–]VigilantRedRooster 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think a little clarification of this point is in order.

Higher education is SMV-neutral. Your degree doesn't make you more attractive to 99+% of men out there.

However, this should not be taken as a call to eschew higher education as a woman, when it is in pursuit of her own intellectual passion as opposed to just "Getting an MRS Degree."

For a woman who hopes to marry a highly educated man, being well-educated herself can be a HUGE boost to her relationship and marriage market value. Bimbos are a dime a dozen; a woman who can have an adult conversation about current events etc is going to stand out to the man who is seriously considering a life partner to spend the next 50 years conversing with.

Here are a couple of case histories I can share.

Woman A got pregnant and dropped out of school at 15; I dated her in her 40s. She can talk at length about fluff like the plots of TV shows, the lives of her grown children, gardening etc. Trying to talk about significant current events was a chore. Most of the conversation would be me filling her in on the details of a situation; then she'd have nothing to add to the conversation, but worse, had no mental rubric to store and correlate this information, so when a related subject would come up later, I'd have to explain some of the same things again like Groundhog Day or 50 First Dates. She'd attribute unexplained events to ghosts without looking for a screamingly obvious alternative explanation, and talk about people in terms of their zodiac sign. She was friendly and likeable, and generally pleasant in balance. We are still on friendly terms, but I know going in, how every conversation is going to go three moves ahead; that becomes BORING to an intelligent mind!

Woman B had a PhD in communication and was a college professor of debate. We fell hard for each other and bonded over our intellectual connection, plus I had just ended a long relationship after that partner wouldn't open up to communicate after over a year of couples counseling. During her school years she was overweight and her parents pushed her academic pursuits, so she was the diametric opposite of Woman A. Emotionally and socially stunted, she still wielded her education like a sword and shield. She'd make scoffing noises if she disagreed, and would make it a point to cut you down emotionally too if you disagreed on a factual matter. This relationship ended as abruptly as it began after not many months.

There's a wide and pleasant middle ground between these two extremes where a LTR or marriage between two smart individuals can thrive and synergize.

Decades ago, John Hughes (of 16 Candles fame) wrote a humor piece for National Lampoon magazine: the John Hughes Engagement Guide for Men or something like that; vetting women for humorously ridiculous compatibility factors. This discussion reminded me of one element of that piece.

Ask her, What is at the core of our current problems with Mexico?

If she answers, "Your question is poorly phrased. Are you referring to the Pemex debacle, or the general feeling of dislike for the Yanqui? then she is a smartass.

If she answers, "Oooh, I love this song- turn it up! I like the night life, ba-by!" then she is a dumbass.

If she answers, "We treat them like shit, now lets go have sex and afterward I'll make your favorite dinner." FORGET THE ENGAGEMENT, elope and buy her whatever she wants!

[–]rproller27 | First Mate | LTR 4 years[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for capturing the nuances of what I couldn't quite put on paper (screen?). I found myself very frustrated because I kept thinking, "I'm not telling women to forego an education! I myself am a fairly well-educated woman!" but I couldn't figure out a way to voice it.

Thank you also for bringing your personal experience into this. I admit that I'm still quite young, and the majority of the women with PhDs I know are either a) militant feminists or b) like Woman B. So those experiences do adversely color my perception of women with PhDs.

I'll also mention that the irony of Woman B's degree as it relates to her behavior is not lost on me :)

[–]JigglylyLate 20s / Married in 2012 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

This thread comes at a weird time for me because I've been feeling a lot of guilt towards my education. I have 99% of a college degree in Social work, I completed a 3 years Bachelor's in Psychology and just started a Professional certificate in HRM... and I actually don't like it at all. But I don't have the grades to go to grad. I have MDD and have symptoms of ADD as a result of long term MDD..., so it's hard to get A's required to get into grad in Psychology. So much guilt in me for giving up, not reaching for help enough, and shooting myself in the foot. Not reaching that goal hurts my ego and my self-confidence. In a world where if you don't have a career 'you're not a strong woman' ... I feel subpar and not good enough to my passionate and very talented software engineer husband. Everybody expects me to have a career. But I don't even know what I want. The only thing I for sure know I want is a family of mine. I find it hard already to care for our pet child, keep our home clean and consistently cook and run errands for us AND go to school and get awesome grades. When we get to human kids, how will it be? My husband knows I don't want to work for at least the first few years of their life but... honestly? I feel guilty. I would be relieved if I didn't feel the pressure of a career.

[–]MsSadieDunham27, married 2 yrs 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Don't listen to the haters! I've always felt strongly about being a mother and staying home for the good of my whole family and my husband has agreed. I could have went back to school and finished my RN but I don't want work to detract from my most important job as a wife and mother. Don't be ashamed of any life choices you make.

[–]JigglylyLate 20s / Married in 2012 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

What did you say to your family?

[–]MsSadieDunham27, married 2 yrs 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Well my family isn't particularly judgemental or in my life like that. When I've needed to I've drawn the line in the sand so to speak and told them "I don't want to hear your opinion about this" and then I don't. I've even left Sunday dinner to not listen. But that was years ago. I'm married, 27 with two step kids and a baby on the way. They live two hours from me. They don't have much influence on my life truthfully.

[–]JigglylyLate 20s / Married in 2012 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

My family is 12hrs away from me and they still find ways to make me feel inappropriate. It's a recurrent theme in my life sadly. That's why they don't know that I am married. Because they would judge me. (They think I'm engaged.) - Thanks for responding though!

[–]MsSadieDunham27, married 2 yrs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think at some point you need to make a decision for yourself. You need to say "ok, I love these people but they are toxic" and just hold them at arm's length. Cut them out of your life even. I love my family and we are pretty close but there are aspects of my life and problems I don't disclose to them because I don't want to hear their opinions. My grandmother, for instance, doesn't know I'm having a home birth. She'd go ballistic. It's not that I'm afraid of the repercussions, I just don't want to hear her crap. Do you know what I mean? But there is a difference between owning your business and keeping it yours, and hiding from your family.

[–]rproller27 | First Mate | LTR 4 years[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As hard as it is, remember too that your parents love you and ultimately want what they think is best for you. You don't see eye-to-eye with them but that's okay.

There were a tense few years between 20 and 25 between my parents and myself because they constantly judged who I dated (usually a race-related reason) and how much of an allowance I could afford to give them. It wasn't until very recently that I realized it was because they had a hard time coming to terms with wanting to do what they think is right by me, while also understanding that their little girl is no longer under their protection.