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submitted by nosotros_road_sodium
Donald Trump held a rally in my city today. Of course, violent protests followed.
That, combined with the protests at Milo Yiannopoulos talks on US university campuses (one video example), is going to confirm every freakin' "SJW" stereotype out there. These incidents perfectly in the right wing "violent, militant left wing" narrative. In fact, I'm sure the Trump campaign is EXCITED to create a video ad similar to Nixon's 1968 "Crime" commercial, this time using footage of the incidents in San Jose, Costa Mesa, and Albuquerque. Agree? Disagree? Solutions?
all 80 comments
[–]BoomDeEthicsIa! Ia Shub-Sarkeesian! 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I'm not worried about the narrative. Gaters can worry about those.
I mean yeah, in Trump supporting communities "violent left" might gain some traction. Because they're... shall we say, "predisposed to believe". (I'm trying to say they're gullible idiots)
But Trump is inciting violence at every city he holds a rally in. His rhetoric is obviously, blatantly aggressive. I'd like to think most people are good enough at pattern recognition to spot the common denominator here. It doesn't matter how Trump tries to spin it, inciting violent protests is not a good look for a would-be president.
Far more worrying is the possibility that someone will get killed, either via a Cowards Punch (is that term gaining traction outside Australia? It means the same thing as "King Hit", just without the patriarchal glorification) or because someone on the other side of the fence gets scared, pulls a gun, and commits murder. It won't affect the politics at all, but it would be the end of someone's life, which is reason enough to worry.
[–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 8 points9 points10 points  (25 children)
Violent left
Good.
Because the Right has been violent as fuck for decades. Maybe its time for a violent Left.
EDIT: My opinion alone, yes radical, etc etc you got it. Sick of conservatives threatening me and mine with guns.
[–]nosotros_road_sodium[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (10 children)
Trump rally attendees had eggs thrown at them and got jumped. That stuff happened in San Jose. As shitty a person Trump is, do you really want a bloodbath behind your cause?
[–]PostModernismKills☭☭Cultural Marxist☭☭ 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
Calling it a bloodbath is an appalling and alarmist exaggeration.
[–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 3 points4 points5 points  (8 children)
You sure you want the answer to that question? You sure you know what my cause is?
[–]nosotros_road_sodium[S] 5 points6 points7 points  (7 children)
Why do you believe "maybe it's time for a violent Left"?
[–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 4 points5 points6 points  (6 children)
Is the Right, alt right, fascists, totalitarians etc all around the world non violent and have they been at any point in history?
[–]Angular_ApparatusSpectre of Cultural Marxism 4 points5 points6 points  (3 children)
Wouldn't a violent left simply lead to an escalation of violence from the right?
As troubling as it is to witness the spreading of hate through the democratic process, answering it with violence will only work to harden their resolve and alienate the huge majority of people who already feel disgust at Trump.
[–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
Wouldn't a violent left simply lead to an escalation of violence from the right?
So lay down and do nothing because of the glamorous idea we're more "moral" than they are?
While black and brown minorities continue to be extrajudicially executed because of the dogma and policies of the right? While they remove women's bodily autonomy? While they recycle the same horseshit policies from Jim Crow era to use on Trans people? While they roll back rights, access to food, health care, more-- need I go on?
Fuck nonviolence.
But hey at least we wont be "as bad as they are" while they're armed to the teeth, training paramilitaries and are likely going to seize office.
Not interested in the what ifs. False mealy mouthed Center-right Liberal morality has accomplished exactly nothing for the people in real danger.
[–]forkisDiGRA Academic Marxist Feminist 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)
A passive left will still lead to an escalation of violence from the right. Fascists do not generally care if the people they're murdering shot first.
I'm a historian, I know what will happen to people like me under a reactionary government. If direct action is necessary to stop that, I'd be willing to consider it, or at least aiding and abetting it.
Thankfully I don't think we're at that point with the far right in America - I believe for all their noise the new right jackasses are still a minority that's going to have a very nasty realization come election day - but I consider it a very real possibility in the distressingly near future.
[–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Be careful! Glamorous and privileged passivism means you're a violent leftist terrorist.
[–][deleted]  (1 child)
[removed]
    [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣[M] 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
    Suuuuuuure, says the fan of Neo Hitler.
    bye!
    [–]Freya-FreedSensual Jew Whisperer 0 points1 point2 points  (12 children)
    A controversial opinion maybe, but not wrong. Violence isn't inherently wrong or evil. It should never be the first course of action, but are you just supposed to lie down and take it when you run out of peaceful, non-violent options?
    Should the Kurds just lay down their weapons and let ISIS trample all over them?
    I'm not saying our situation in Western countries is the exactly same as that. But racial and religious violence still is a huge issue here. Should black people just take it and die and get imprissoned en masse? Should LGBT people just allowed themselves to be beaten and murdered?
    Fuck. that. noise.
    [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 1 point2 points3 points  (11 children)
    Well according to someone in here not laying down in the right position for the right/alt right to curb stomp me makes me a danger to myself and wanting to kill people.
    Aint that cute?
    Liberalism yaaay
    [–]Freya-FreedSensual Jew Whisperer 3 points4 points5 points  (10 children)
    Fucking LOL.
    [–]JF_Manatane 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    What a piece of smelling half-diarrhea shit stain.
    [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 2 points3 points4 points  (4 children)
    Wowowowowoww and its Frantran. I know that name. Hilarious tryhard
    [–]Freya-FreedSensual Jew Whisperer 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
    Why is it that Americans cry the hardest about "rapefugees" (ew)? Did I miss some major tectonic events and the US is somehow part of Europe now?
    [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
    Because Americans are hot garbage juice for the most part. Majority only cares about it because its a shiny new opportunity to vomit bullshit about scary brown people.
    [–]Freya-FreedSensual Jew Whisperer 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
    The fucking greatest thing about "rapefugees" is that its not just how its a prime example of racism. Its actually disgustingly sexist. Centuries of white men raping white women is just fucking fine. Not really a huge problem right? Cuss rape culture. But as soon as one brown immigrant rapes a white women?
    OMFG RAPEFUGEES. Because rape TOTALLY wasn't a problem before brown people came to Europe/America right, you little shits?
    [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    OMFG RAPEFUGEES. Because rape TOTALLY wasn't a problem before brown people came to Europe/America right, you little shits?
    A lot of them believe white men commit literally zero rape. Not even kidding.
    [–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists -1 points0 points1 point  (3 children)
    I got a "yeah fuck crackers kill em all!" pm from that guy.
    I'm white lol.
    [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
    They are so mad. Then again, they don't stop being mad.
    Or desperately performing cartwheels in comments and people's inboxes for attention.
    [–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    I don't know how they can be so mad when virtually nothing has happened to them and it's likely nothing will.
    Yet let, say, a black person express anger over the way they are treated daily. Suddenly that's an overreaction and cause for alarm.
    [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    I don't know how they can be so mad when virtually nothing has happened to them and it's likely nothing will.
    Exactly. Eeeexactly.
    [–]dal33t 3 points4 points5 points  (35 children)
    These people do not remember the days of Baader-Meinhof and the Weather Underground. Today's left is nothing compared to them.
    Frankly, I think that if conservatives are going to employ violence against us, they should do so with the fear of blowback.
    [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 0 points1 point2 points  (34 children)
    These people do not remember the days of Baader-Meinhof and the Weather Underground. Today's left is nothing compared to them.
    Ready for a second serving to be honest. I am so tired of this pacifist do nothing horseshit
    [–][deleted]  (33 children)
    [removed]
      [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 1 point2 points3 points  (32 children)
      Ask me why. (And not those specific groups or even "terrorism")
      Me...not "we". Just to note.
      [–][deleted]  (31 children)
      [removed]
        [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 3 points4 points5 points  (30 children)
        Ditch the terrorism aspect. Both groups thought bombs, killing people, performances of grandeur etc would get them what they want.
        Did it?
        Shit of course not.
        But with their acts combined with McCarthyism the Left in this country was sufficiently eliminated. Its often said that what we think of as the Mainstream left is actually Center-right. This is true. And then, consider that the Democratic party is more moderate-conservative but Neo-liberal. Which is basically zero carb conservatism.
        Shit, Bernie Sanders isnt even all that close to an actual socialist. Meanwhile. Liberals are more concerned with "Just as bad as they are" logic, villifying actual Leftists just as much as Conservatives and Alt-righters do (because neo liberalism) and doing fuck all. All it takes to be a Liberal these days is maybe being pro choice, smoking some pot, owning a Subaru, voting Democratic...and doing nothing.
        And while exactly fucking nothing is going on, any Leftist who tries to bring up the real issues gets shut down, again, by both Liberals and Conservatives who have the exact same investment in defensive male/white/class/het fragility. They are worried about being safe and not being confused with Conservatives. Thats it.
        All of this is happening while the right/alt right wing is spiraling out of control. They themselves are baffled at what they have become or are solidly focused on becoming more and more extreme. And anybody who wants to do anything about it is called a fascist for not letting Fascists do what they want because "just as bad as they are", "free speech", "non violent"
        Meanwhile, rights are being yanked away, people are dying right now, racism/etc is still rampant.
        But everybody's preaching non-violence without knowing what the fuck it means.
        its Liberal bullshit. Its literally "lay down and let them stomp on you or you're as bad as they are. The fascists might call you a fascist! Oh no!"
        I'm not fuckin here for it xD And they want me to be nonviolent?
        [–]CressCrowbits 2 points3 points4 points  (20 children)
        And how will violence help shifting US politics towards the left?
        [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 3 points4 points5 points  (19 children)
        US politics need to be hard restarted. Consider that its a bit bigger than needing a shift.
        that aside, how will nonviolence? Because its looking like violence, a threat based mentality, skullduggery, white supremacy, male supremacy, a stranglehold from the Christian and catholic church and in the end just the idea that straight white men could lose a bit of ground to everyone else (thus ripening the right wing for trump's ascension) and more is shifting us to the right extremely well.
        Wouldnt you say so?
        [–]CressCrowbits 2 points3 points4 points  (18 children)
        I'd say the shift to the right, at least in the us and uk where I'm most familiar with it, is largely due to the media being largely controlled by the wealthy right wing. How you counter that I don't know.
        Again, how do you propose using violence as the answer?
        And to the person who pm'd me saying Lenin and Mao shifted things to the left with violence - those were in effective dictatorships where there was no other option and had popular support. A left wing revolution would be unlikely to proffer popular support in the modern west where there the media narrative is centre right biased and most people aren't desperate.
        [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 2 points3 points4 points  (16 children)
        Again, how do you propose using violence as the answer?
        You're avoiding my question. Lets try a thought exercize and keep in mind you dont have the whole picture of how much power America has or how far to the right it is.
        I dont care about Lenin or Mao. Put that aside.
        Which ideology has control of the American military? Which Ideology has control of Industry both in America and worldwide? Which ideology has control of the arms industry from pistols and bb guns to nuclear warheads? which ideology has the entire American police force under its thumb? Which ideology has the whole planet scared we might elect trump? Which ideology is responsible for most of the infamous horrors White americans have committed against non-white cultures and populations the entire time we've been a country?
        The answer is the same across the board.
        And you want us to be non violent in the face of this? And what...try to morally dissuade them? Keep coddling them because being mean to fascists makes you a fascist yourself?
        edit: Hell let me add on something
        Which ideology has control of the Abrahamic Church which has been in absolute but barely waning power for a millennium?
        [–]2_zizexy_4_my_gott 2 points3 points4 points  (8 children)
        The fascists might call you a fascist! Oh no
        It's even spelled out explicitly by someone else in this thread;
        Walking down that path, it's only a matter of time before factions within your opponents come to the same conclusion regarding you.
        but they already call us fascist... the hypothetical negative consequences of employing violence are actually already happening anyway
        [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 2 points3 points4 points  (7 children)
        It just...I'm rubbing my temples. EXACTLY. Shit is being rolled back, people are dying, shit's getting worse and all they have to say is "being mean to fascists makes you a fascist"
        like stop god just staaaawp
        [–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists 0 points1 point2 points  (6 children)
        I remember having the same reaction in that KKK rally thread a while back were people were saying the protesters were "just as bad" and in the wrong because the KKK members "didn't start the fight."
        Everybody wants to personally be better from a moral outlook than the fascists and it gets in the way of actually making the world better.
        [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
        "just as bad"
        As American as Apple pie.
        They can call me when the "just as bad" people lynch 5,000 - 8,000 whites just for existing.
        [–]2_zizexy_4_my_gott 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
        Nonviolence is a privileged position in an unjust society.
        HTH LIBERALS
        [–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        They were calling the left violent back when Trump protesters were getting punched instead of throwing the punches so nothing on that view has changed.
        The right has always painted the left as violent criminals no matter how non-violent the actions of the left were(look at the reactions to peaceful sit ins during the Civil Rights era or more recently how people have hysterically declared feminists seek to murder men because some feminist yelled at a bunch of assholes or posted "lol male tears" on tumblr). Meanwhile the right has been coming at oppressed people for years with violence. They beat people, they lynched people, they shot children fatally for daring to walk home through their neighborhood, they committed arson and murder and assault in mass amounts towards PoC, LGBTQ people, women.
        I don't like violence for violence sake but at this point it's more self defense than anything. Fascists are about to sieze the highest office in the land and are passing laws allowing for the heinous discrimination against oppressed people(so many anti-trans laws, including one allowing therapists to deny treatment to trans people suffering from lethal mental illnesses). People are fighting for their very lives and the lives of their children.
        [–]BoomDeEthicsIa! Ia Shub-Sarkeesian! 2 points3 points4 points  (4 children)
        If you're one of those doubting the ability of nonviolence to affect change, you should check out this article:
        Many of these stories are tragedies, but others had lasting effects. Egypt exists today due to Egyptian Revolution of 1919. Women have the vote due to the suffragists. There's Gandhi's India's Non-cooperation movement which completely changed India. The civil rights movement in the US.
        There's so many beautiful (and so many tragic) stories on that page. I think I'm going to need to set aside a few hours for a wikiwalk...
        [–]forkisDiGRA Academic Marxist Feminist 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
        The uprising in the Egyptian countryside was more violent, involving attacks on British military installations, civilian facilities and personnel. By 25 July 1919, 800 Egyptians were dead, and 1,600 others were wounded.
        I mean, I don't doubt that in certain cases nonviolent resistance can lead to change, but the 1919 revolution is not an amazing example.
        [–]Freya-FreedSensual Jew Whisperer 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
        I was wondering when someone was going to mention Gandhi. While surely his non-cooperation movement had a profound effect, there were plenty of violent events that helped establish Indian independance.
        [–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        And Gandhi literally called for Jews to line up to be massacred by the Nazis. He thought it would be better they all be murdered, completely genocide-d, than to fight back.
        So yeah, maybe Gandhi isn't the one you want to look to for strategies against fascists.
        [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
        And you should read this one. And dont mention the Civil rights movement please. That also involved Malcolm and the Black Panthers and they were not nonviolent.
        [–]FartMcPooppants 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
        which is hilarious considering leftist has always been met with state violence. When the only argument your opponents will understand is violence, you have to speak their language.
        [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
        Bingo.
        [–]Angular_ApparatusSpectre of Cultural Marxism 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        As no one terrible in history has ever thought their violence was the one righteous violence.
        Walking down that path, it's only a matter of time before factions within your opponents come to the same conclusion regarding you.
        [–]BoomDeEthicsIa! Ia Shub-Sarkeesian! 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        When the only argument your opponents will understand is violence, you have to speak their language.
        I strongly disagree.
        Why do we have to "speak their language" when the language of violence is only capable of one sentence: "I hate you"?
        There's other ways to communicate that. You could tell them you hate them for example. Using actual language.
        It is possible, albeit pretty much the most difficult thing in the world, to effect change in non-violent ways, even when faced with violent opposition.
        People always have a choice. Never tell yourself you don't: that's how monsters are made.
        (Edit) to clarify: absolutely not calling you a monster. Just pointing out that the worst atrocities of history were justified by people who told themselves they had no other choice. Rationalizing violence is a bad path to take.
        [–]tubonjics1 -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
        To be honest, I've already seen this narrative pushed by some of my acquaintances on Facebook, XBL, etc.
        [–][deleted]  (1 child)
        [removed]
          [–]IrbyTremor☣sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ ᴊᴀʙʙᴇʀᴡᴏᴄᴋʏ☣ 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
          I'm recalling the reaction from Trumpettes when they assaulted multiple BLM protestors OR just Black people in general for existing at the rally. Hmmmmm
          Am I imagining things or do I smell hypocrisy?
          [–]xenoghost1Social Studies Warrior -2 points-1 points0 points  (2 children)
          well after the post by prinny supervisor on the NIS forum - i feel ready
          [–]Angular_ApparatusSpectre of Cultural Marxism 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
          NIS America, video games. As for the context behind that comment, no idea.
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