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Bernie Sanders: Here’s what we want "We want an economy that is not based on uncontrollable greed, monopolistic practices and illegal behavior. We want an economy that protects the human needs and dignity of all people — children, the elderly, the sick, working people and the poor." (washingtonpost.com)

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[–]skadse 30ポイント31ポイント  (64子コメント)

Top executives make $5000 an hour to play golf, but they "can't afford" to pay living wages, and raising the minimum to merely keep up with inflation would "put them out of business." Then you have a majority of working class so brainwashed they love and protect and swear by this very system while cursing those pesky unions and pinko Euro trash. Welcome to the USA.

[–]Mushroomfry_throw 1ポイント2ポイント  (39子コメント)

What is a living wage ?

Plus the $5000/hr executive are not the one who will be affected by this "living wage", but rather the small businesses and mom & pop shops.

Actually the executive you love to rail against will be benefited in that event with even less competition as the small businesses would be forced to shut down.

This living wage issue is a great example of left arguing for something that will result in an opposite impact to what they want.

[–]skadse 6ポイント7ポイント  (37子コメント)

Right, because countries like Germany, which actually have a real middle class are doing sooo bad. They just don't know what to do with their much shorter workweek, 2 hour lunches, paid vacations, paid maternity leave, full health insurance and a whole list of other social benefits they have and your amazing country has never heard of. They are just so upset at how their boss isn't even allowed to call them on their day off. It just sucks, you know? I wish my boss could harass me on my days off like in the US. I wish I could lose my career just because I got pregnant. God bless America!

[–]throwingmytimeaway -2ポイント-1ポイント  (36子コメント)

Germany has a much lower GDP per capita than the US

[–]guamisc 10ポイント11ポイント  (29子コメント)

Germany has a higher GDP per man-hour than the US, so they work less but produce more per hour.

[–]throwingmytimeaway 0ポイント1ポイント  (28子コメント)

But still produce less per person overall.

[–]guamisc 5ポイント6ポイント  (27子コメント)

Because they work less.

[–]skadse 3ポイント4ポイント  (13子コメント)

There's another issue at play that is far more significant than that.. income inequality. Income inequality in Germany isn't even close to the US. Sure the US per capita GDP is quite high, but it's extremely skewed by the .01%, the one tenth of one percent, who account for like 40% of it or some crazy, unbelievable number.

[–]guamisc 4ポイント5ポイント  (12子コメント)

I don't disagree, I was building up to the point that the Germans work less than the Americans on average yet maintain the same standard of living with far more free time and benefits than their US counterparts.

As an American, I'd rather have an economy that works for the people of this country then being able to work our populace to death.

[–]WrightFlyersDryer 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

That's not too much to ask. In fact, that's completely rational and reasonable. Some would say that's the American Dream.

We got lost when we placed so much emphasis on the profit-motive and quarterly stock reports. There's more to life than working a horrible job. I think there's a saying about all work and no play making a person or country something something.

[–]skadse 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Take the current per capita GDP, cut it in half, then realize that's the per capita GDP of about 98% of the US. Less than $30,000 per year.

[–]throwingmytimeaway -1ポイント0ポイント  (12子コメント)

And have a weaker economy because of it. Thank you for agreeing.

[–]guamisc 3ポイント4ポイント  (11子コメント)

But the same median standard of living. So the entire German economy is more geared for better outcomes of the median people. Who gives a shit if the US has the highest GDP/capita if extremely large parts of the GDP do absolutely nothing to help the average person.

They get to work less and have the same standard of living. If anything, the people in the US are getting screwed.

[–]throwingmytimeaway 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

Who gives a shit if the US has the highest GDP/capita if extremely large parts of the GDP do absolutely nothing to help the average person.

Wtf really? So lets say the bottom half of both countries have similar standards of living. (This assumption coming from the relatively similar median standards of living)

The US has a better standard of living for the top half, so this make GERMANY better? I don't follow your logic.

[–]cgroza 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Most Americans don't benefit from that GDP.

[–]skadse 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This. This to the nth degree.

[–]skadse 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes, and most average Americans never touch a fraction of that. It's skewed as fuck by the massive disparity in income and wealth.

[–]throwingmytimeaway -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

The median household income is higher in the US than Germany, so "most" americans have a higher household income than "most" germans.

[–]edible_funk 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Most" americans also have to spend much more of their income on social services and general living costs than "most" germans.

[–]throwingmytimeaway 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And most Americans pay less taxes... what's your point?

[–]mattsoca 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not necessarily. One could argue that if more people had a living wage, more money would be available and more money would be spent, thereby INCREASING the mom and pops business. We still are a consumer-driven society.

[–]throwingmytimeaway -1ポイント0ポイント  (23子コメント)

You really dont understand how raising the wages of a hundred thousand workers is more expensive than paying a CEO millions?

[–]skadse 3ポイント4ポイント  (12子コメント)

It's not just the chief executives who are vastly overpaid. You really don't understand the concept of fairness? Just look at how many other first world countries do this corporate capitalist shit without being so fucking greedy. It's not like I said all enterprises should be worker owned, I just said more fair. You think the system is fair?

[–]throwingmytimeaway 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

Yes I think the system is fair. You have no skills, and can be replaced in a day. Why do you think it's fair to pay you more than you are worth? (You being used as the general you, not personally you)

[–]skadse 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's not fair. It's exploitation. Those min wage workers are generating probably 5x or more what they're paid in productivity for the company. It's called greed. Learn more about the world and how things are done in other places. This is where I get off before my rage spills over and I get banned from another sub. Bye.

[–]throwingmytimeaway 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

You really think that minimum wage workers are bringing in 50$/hour in profit to the companies they work for? Do you really try and argue economics with such a poor grasp of the real world?

[–]skadse 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Do you try and argue economics with such a poor grasp of the difference between productivity and profit?

And, I don't think that; It's a fact. Just as long as you replace "profit" with "productivity" in your statement.

[–]throwingmytimeaway 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Selling 50$ in burgers per hour does not mean you are worth 50$ in productivity... The extra profit you bring to the company by your presence is how much productivity you bring.

[–]skadse 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

..and nobody said that is how productivity is measured. So you are right, selling $50 in burgers per hour does not mean you are worth $50.

[–]throwingmytimeaway 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then how are you defining productivity? Because your statement makes no sense otherwise.

A measure of the efficiency of a person, machine, factory, system, etc., in converting inputs into useful outputs.

Productivity is computed by dividing average output per period by the total costs incurred or resources (capital, energy, material, personnel) consumed in that period. Productivity is a critical determinant of cost efficiency.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/productivity.html

So productivity is total output/total input. The input is a 7.5$ per hour worker, the output is 12$ increase in sales profit over not having that employee (since you already paid for the cost of the burger, the electricity, the building rent, the legal costs, etc. These don't count into an employee's productivity).

[–]-TheMAXX- 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That is literally not true of anyone. Pick any random person and there will be at least one thing they can do way better than you.

[–]throwingmytimeaway 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't see how this contradicts me in any way? Did you answer the right comment?

[–]cgroza 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

enterprises should be worker owned

Blasphemy!

[–]cgar28 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You really don't understand the concept of fairness?

Fairness isn't the end goal of any capitalistic environment or any economy. Economies have rich people, and poor people. It isn't a difficult concept. "Fair" is just a term thrown by people with little skills. Developing productive workers is what is important. It would be "unfair" to pay a job a different wage because someone at the top is making more.

[–]Trorbes 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

As if it's only the CEO.

[–]throwingmytimeaway 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

Please take basic math and economics. Do you not understand that executive's pay could be totally eliminated and regular workers would barely even notice the difference in their paycheck?

[–]Trorbes 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

On the other hand, the salary of a single executive would cover the wages of ten minimum-wage positions. The executive's additional compensation would probably cover the rest of the cost. We won't even get into "golden parachutes."

There are other factors at play, though. For instance that executive may earn the wages of ten workers, but they don't spend it the way ten workers would. The money won't travel as far or as fast, and instead of circulating through businesses a lot of their income will be saved or invested - good for expanding industries, but not so much in keeping businesses in business.

[–]throwingmytimeaway 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

The executive probably brings more value to the company than the 10 minimum wage employees. Giving the stressful position with large responsibilities a salary of 0$/year is ridiculous

[–]Trorbes 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

A warehouse full of scrap metal could have more "value" to a company than ten minimum-wage employees, if you account for it right.

[–]throwingmytimeaway 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes.. what's your point?

[–]Trorbes 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I made it several posts up the chain.

Tl:dr money spent on workers does more for the economy than money spent on an executive.

[–]throwingmytimeaway 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unless spending money on workers decreases profitability to a point where companies don't run as well, hurting the economy.

[–]-TheMAXX- -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

You should do some math before you say that. Plus in basic economy we have a formula for the optimal income stratification and the USA is way too unequal. It is a recognized drag on the economy to have too much income inequality. And it is just not fair. You have to be dumber and more ruthless to get further up in pay and no matter what you do, how can your actual life force be worth a thousand times less than the guy who is dumber and probably psychopathic and works way less hours?

[–]throwingmytimeaway 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok so you are just pulling words out of your ass first of all.

You should do some math before you say that.

I did. To give the 2 million walmart workers a raise to the "living wage" of 15$ per hour would cost:

15$-9$(average wage currently)=6$ raise on average

6$*1750 hours/year (35hours/week) = 10500$/year

10500$/year * 2 million employees = 21 billion $

Please show me how walmart executives make anywhere near 21 billion $ per year in salary.

And it is just not fair.

Cry me a river. This statement means nothing.

how can your actual life force be worth a thousand times less than the guy who is dumber and probably psychopathic and works way less hours

You think that people who create companies or run companies work less hours and are dumber than the minimum wage workers? Is this a joke or something?