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Free Talk Friday (self.reddevils)

ballsywallsyBerbalove が 投稿

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]welbzy 15ポイント16ポイント  (19子コメント)

How about that referendum?

[–]play365123Jose Mourinho 11ポイント12ポイント  (11子コメント)

may i know why UK people wanted to be out of EU? what's the thing that sparked the need to leave?

[–]wl205bKagawa 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lots of tiny issues. Mainly annoyance with the 2 major parties seen as too identical, part of a "political class" and disconnected from too much of society.

It's all over the political spectrum tbh. The two main centre right/centre left parties both campaigned to remain.

  • Group 1: Small minority of xenophobes who don't like foreigners

  • Group 2: Far left. They've been anti-EU since the 70s. Europe has traditionally been a centrist/centre right position.

  • Group 3: Commonwealth/Non-EU voters & friends. Non-EU migration is impossible unless you make 35k, requirements become increasingly difficult because UK can't control EU migration.

  • Group 4: Related to Group 3. Normal people worried that there is 0 ability to control the flow of migrants into the country because of free movement law.

  • Group 5: Low skill/wage workers. Flood of low skill EU migrants have undercut the market and caused massive oversupply. You can have 500 applicants for a shitty minimum wage job.

  • Group 6: Businesses, especially the ones who trade outside the EU. No longer have to comply with expensive EU regulation.

  • Group 7: Constitutionalists. Preserve the sanctity of parliamentary sovereignty above all else.

  • Group 8: Eurosceptics. Massive distrust of the very corrupt, technocratic, unaccountable, undemocratic EU institutions. Don't believe reform from within is possible. See the EU hurtling towards a federal structure and want to pull out before they're sucked in.

  • Group 9: Northern/Coastal communities. Decimated by onerous/unfair EU regulations. Fishing Industry for instance. Same reason Iceland exited.

[–]yiyiyiyiHerrera 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

Fear of immigration. That's it.

[–]wl205bKagawa 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

That's really not true for most people who voted leave.

Remainers badgering anyone who dare vote leave as an immigrant hating racist is a huge part of why there was such a big shy-leaver syndrome in the polls.

Also failing to understand why so many groups not terrified of migration were leaning to leave is why remain failed to win so many groups that could very easily have been convinced to remain.

[–]sizzlelikeasnail 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

That's really not true for most people who voted leave.

Lol.

I'd like to see actual polls on this. Literally no one i know that voted leave didn't have anti immigration motives. Of course that doesn't mean they're racist. But immigration was definitely the driving force behind the leave vote

[–]yiyiyiyiHerrera 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/746234793730285573

Why are people upvoting that guy chatting absolute bollocks.

[–]wl205bKagawa 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

This arrogance, badgering and unwillingness to listen to people's very reasonable reasons for voting leave is exactly why remain lost.

Calling everyone an uneducated, ignorant racist for having the audacity to disagree with you just turns people away from your movement.

[–]mufcirclejerk 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

This arrogance, badgering and unwillingness to listen to people's very reasonable reasons for voting leave is exactly why remain lost.

I'd suggest the fact that the leave side are unable to understand macroeconomics is probably the real reason.

[–]wl205bKagawa 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thumbing through a gcse textbook while you were on the loo yesterday doesn't make you an expert. Again, feel free to vent, abuse and name call all you want.

You're just making your side all the more repulsive.

Also, excuse me for not really valuing your academic insight when you make stupid remarks like your proposal to ban anyone over the age of 65 from voting because they're likely to die sooner than you.

[–]sizzlelikeasnail 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd say they lost for the exact same reasons Trump might win in America.

"Surely there's no way leave will ACTUALLY win right?"

Well, at least I know just under half of the voting population is sane

[–]wl205bKagawa 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, at least I know just under half of the voting population is sane

There were huge swathes of Labour and the left wing that voted leave.

There was a mass of tories that voted remain.

This wasn't anywhere near as partisan an issue the remainers are trying to make it out to be.

Voting leave doesn't make you stupid,uneducated, racist, impulsive or mentally ill.

[–]Pigeon_AssholeGerrard = 0 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

As someone from Northern Ireland, I'm pretty scared. We are going to be forgotten about very quickly. Time to go get an Irish Passport

[–]TIDZ3Rash-Daddy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

United Ireland

[–]patthetree 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same here, this result fucks us over the most.pretty angry right now to be honest

[–]enigmaticalize 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Still can't believe the result.

[–]wl205bKagawa 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Most of my family & friends are from the commonwealth.

Everyone is delighted.

LEAVE = Easier + More non-EU immigration.

My dad is a constitutional law academic, he's also delighted but nobody else besides him seems to give a shit about bipartisan constitutional issues

[–]spoofexKing Cantona -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Non-EU immigration will not get easier. If anything, it'll get harder as the non-eu and EU applications go into one pot now and drown each other out.

No idea why you think Farage would want easier immigration for countries with brown skin tones.

[–]wl205bKagawa 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

non-eu and EU applications go into one pot

That's what we want. non-eu are pretty pissed about eu migrants being given priority.

Farage would want easier immigration for countries with brown skin tones.

He's been campaigning for it in every single speech and manifesto without fail for the last 5 years. I've spoken to him personally about it.

BoJo has also been campaigning hard for this for the last 5 years.

Non-EU immigration will not get easier.

It almost certainly will. There's absolutely no scenario in which it doesn't get easier.

(1) You have to accept the premise that there is too much immigration right now. This is fairly non-controversial.

(2) You cannot control the number of EU migrants.

(3) You cannot quality control EU migrants. All low skill workers can come in freely.

(4) The more EU migrants that come in, the fewer overall spots left.

(5) To control overall migration, non-EU migration is made harder (minimum 35k earning threshold for Tier 2 visa) and number of visas available to non-EU migration slashed (Tier 5 visas were reduced by 80%)

(6) When everyone is in the same pot, non-EU migrants jump ahead of all the low skilled EU migrants in the queue. Requirements are eased up again.

This is a fair system. Nobody from France/Romania gets priority over someone from Australia/India. Everyone competes equally and fairly under the same criteria.

[–]imsowitty21 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

What's the best and cheapest way to get from Crawley to Manchester?

[–]BloodyMess111 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Best and cheapest? Walk. If you already own a bike, cycle.

Edit: hitch hike

[–]ballsywallsyBerbalove[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not sure about the cheapest but you can find train rides for about £25 or car share for £20. It's about a 4 hour ride either way.

[–]11men1cupMartial 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am having the greatest kebab i've ever had right now

[–]ballsywallsyBerbalove[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

I genuinely didn't believe that we'd actually leave EU.

It's fucking terrifying not knowing what's going to happen now.

If anyone else needs to get their mind off this entire debacle, here's something to chuckle about.

[–]mufcirclejerk 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's a huge, huge disaster.

[–]wl205bKagawa 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Plenty of people are pretty happy. It's not all doom and gloom.

[–]mufcirclejerk -3ポイント-2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Uh, what? Little englanders are delighted. That isn't a good thing.

Unfortunately every single credible economist agrees that this is a disaster. Overnight we wiped off enough value from sterling to fund the NHS for 25 years.

S&P just said that our AAA credit rating is "not tenable" and confirmed they'll be downgrading us.

"It's not all doom and gloom" only works if you choose to ignore what nearly every single economist and expert predicts is going to happen.

[–]wl205bKagawa 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Unfortunately every single credible economist agrees

no they don't, there's little to no academic consensus in law or economics.

half the cambridge economics department is pretty staunchly anti-eu. oxford isn't quite as divided but there's a significant brexit minority.

one of the leading constitutional law academics at cambridge - dr. mark elliott - has campaigned against the eu for years. lots of key academics at the biggest unis are on the brexit side.

wiped off enough value from sterling

some currency traders had some fun. it has 0 impact on the strength of the economy and all key fundamentals.

the only ones seriously affected this week are importers.

S&P downgrade

due to market uncertainty which inevitable and again, has no effect on the economy's fundamentals. the markets are highly sensitive and reactionary. they self correct pretty quickly.

[–]mufcirclejerk -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

there's little to no academic consensus in law or economics.

Oh dear mate.

That's: LSE, HM Treasury, OECD, CBI, PwC, NIESR, and Oxford Economics all agreeing that there will be a contraction in GDP as a result of Brexit between -3% and -8%. Whoops!

one of the leading constitutional law academics at cambridge - dr. mark elliott - has campaigned against the eu for years. lots of key academics at the biggest unis are on the brexit side.

He is a lawyer, not an economist. One man does not add much weight to your argument when, in tandem with the above projections, the FT polled 100 economists. 75% agreed that "leaving the EU would damage the country's medium-term outlook".

some currency traders had some fun.

FTSE forecast to drop by 7% when trading opens.

it has 0 impact on the strength of the economy and all key fundamentals

My spidey sense is tingling. Predictions: a) you don't have maths/economics to degree level, b) you don't work in a role which requires a high degree of numeracy. If I'm wrong about these, please describe to me how 'key fundamentals' are unchanged by our impending exit from Europe's trading bloc.

due to market uncertainty which inevitable and again, has no effect on the economy's fundamentals. the markets are highly sensitive and reactionary. they self correct pretty quickly.

No. S&P evaluate risk not uncertainty. The risk of the UK not being able to pay back borrowed money has increased, and as a consequence our credit rating has decreased.

has no effect on the economy's fundamentals

Please explain how the cost of borrowing going up is going to have "no effect on the economy's fundamentals"

the markets are highly sensitive

Please explain what ratings agencies have to do with "the markets".

[–]wl205bKagawa 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

LSE

one of the most corrupt unis in the country who've spent the last 5 years dealing with scandals for taking money from gaddafi, saddam and a fucking cavalcade of horrible people for their support.

they have fuck all academic integrity

Oxford Economics

not the university. a separate, independent think tank.

cbi/PwC

no shit. They're the leader of the city's remain campaign. The city's pumped over 100 million into remain.

hm treasury & oecd

hardly widespread consensus. treasury's macroeconomic forecasting has been utter trash the last 5 years, since when are these figures suddenly credible?

He is a lawyer, not an economist.

yes, constitutional law change is literally the biggest point of this referendum you fucking numpty. andrews, hughes ... all the lead constitutional academics are campaigning for brexit.

My spidey sense is tingling

probably the gonorrhea flaring up. get that checked. you're clearly financially illiterate, please tell me how the nation's fundamentals have changed over the last 12 hours because of a currency fluctuation?

[–]mufcirclejerk -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I note with interest that you did not respond to all of my points :) Do me the courtesy of a full response and I'll do the same.

[–]yuma712I’m gonna go on the piss with Georgie Best 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

People voting based on emotion and impulse. Absolute lunacy. Fear the US is next with Trump.

E: apparently UK got screwed by voters aged 50+. Pretty sad tbh.

[–]YoungPappy 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's always the old fuckers. The sooner they all die the better.

[–]mufcirclejerk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The people who aren't gonna live with the consequences have fucked those who will.

[–]jbiresqHerrera 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The US elections are much less democratic, if that makes you feel any better. Trump is also incredibly unpopular with women and minorities, disparities that should prevent him from winning.

[–]sickest_000 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Man, UK voting out, the rise of Trump and other nationalist government all around the globe. Times are changing.

[–]red_devilforeverMemphis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The UK voting out has pretty much made me sure that Trump will win the election. There are way too many people with right-wing beliefs and it was proven by this vote. Losing faith by the day.

[–]is-an-antRooney 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

we just witnessed history.. holy shit!!

[–]FlyingSnoopyPaul Scholes, he scores goals! 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

This may be controversial but people shouldn't be allowed to vote directly on such a big matter as the exit from EU. Too much emotion and little thinking.

[–]mufcirclejerk -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Also if you're 65+ you shouldn't get a vote. Someone who is 65 in the UK today has a life expectancy of 70. By the time we've negotiated our exit from the EU they'll be 36 months from death.

Edit: Think about it this way. You and I are buying a house together. I'm going to live in it for five years, you're going to live in it for 70 years. Should I have equal say in picking that house?

[–]wl205bKagawa 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

if you're 65+ you shouldn't get a vote

That's a completely fucking idiotic thing to say.

[–]mufcirclejerk -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why? If you and I were buying a house together and I was going to live there for 5 years and you were going to live there for 70 years I'd be very surprised if you'd think it a good idea that I have equal say in choosing the house.

[–]TrickyxoneCoppell -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

They've been paying your school fees in taxes after working in shittier conditions than you'll ever experience you entitled little prick.

[–]mufcirclejerk 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

shittier conditions

I'm afraid this is not a popular view of things. Someone who is 65 today was born in 1951. These are baby boomers. They have better pensions than their children will ever have, they bought houses at affordable prices and benefitted from the uptick in value. But more importantly: someone who is 17 today will live until they're 90-100. They will live with the consequences for 83 years. Someone who is 65 will live with the consequences for 5-10.

[–]TheReplacerUnited We Stand 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Could anybody in the UK/Europe tell me what happens now?

[–]spoofexKing Cantona 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

The honest answer is; we have no idea.

[–]TheReplacerUnited We Stand 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

So you pretty much voted for not knowing what is going to happen?

[–]spoofexKing Cantona 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Me personally; no.

As a nation, yeah, pretty much.

[–]ri0t333Januzaj 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's really hard to predict what will happen. There has already been some effect on the economy with the GBP value dropping. I think it was forecasted for maybe around 5% drop in GDP as well.

Didn't think England would leave, but I wonder if this sets precedent for other countries to possibly leave as well.

[–]mufcirclejerk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Leave side don't even know.

[–]spoofexKing Cantona 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Non-Referendum chat thread here then, because I'm too tired and angry to talk about it any more;

Who here has played any VR games, and what do you recommend now I've got time to try my Vive this weekend?

Also, if anyone hasn't played it, Quantum Break a good game if you can pick it up for less than £20.

[–]theduckofreasoningRooney 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was leaning out (voted remain just because I didn't feel I was well informed enough to know what exit would bring l) just because I wanted immigration reform but now that it's actually happening I'm terrified. Why can't we secure our safety without cutting ties? Fucking hell I have no idea how this will go don't think anyone does

[–]YoungPappy 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Fucking England man.

[–]BloodyMess111 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Britain.

[–]exxpiredDe Gea 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Tbf his point is valid. Most votes to leave came from England.

[–]BloodyMess111 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good point.

Although Wales was very pro-leave as well.

[–]TIDZ3Rash-Daddy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was pretty much just Wales and England.

[–]quimbies_in_camo_PJs 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

The Orlando Magic are such a disappointing team to support, so poorly run and with no hope for the future

[–]11men1cupMartial 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Arguably the worst trade ever trading Oladipo

[–]spoofexKing Cantona 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Try being a Calgary Flames fan...

[–]wl205bKagawa 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Since we started a basketball thread. How fucking scripted was that finals series?

Vardy & LeBron are writing memes and movies. Damn.

That King James block! That Klove defence! That Kyrie shot!

[–]LeGoalieHerrera 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Can someone tell me what's going to happen with Scotland since they very much wanted to stay in the EU?

I heard one news station suggest this vote could split Scotland from Great Britain.

[–]ScotsmaniaHorny 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The SNP will now push for another referendum to leave the UK and there are strong noises coming out of Northern Ireland at the moment too. A second Scotland referendum would probably end up seeing us leave the UK.

It's not too far fetched to think that Great Britain could soon consist of just Wales and England.

[–]spoofexKing Cantona 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You say they wanted in, yet over 1 million voted leave. That's either a tactical vote to push another independence referendum, or they were sorely misread.

[–]ScotsmaniaHorny 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not sure why 1m voting to leave matters when 67.2% 62% (doh, was looking at the turnout percentage) of Scotland voted to remain in the EU, it's not like it was close.

Piss poor turn out, not surprised though as the polling station was empty when i voted yesterday.

[–]WizardsAndDucksTony Martial 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I just got tickets for the Copa final on Sunday, cost me a shit ton but I think it'll be worth it to see the greatest player of all time playing his heart out. They're even close up on the right wing so hopefully I'll get to see him pull some magic off.

[–]spoofexKing Cantona 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Get pictures. Hope it's a belter. I think Argentina may finally get that trophy for Messi.

[–]YourTypicalSaudiAnder Hererra 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not sure about the exit of England from the EU. I hope United wouldn't be affected negatively by this.

[–]spoofexKing Cantona 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

We won't know for years how it'll impact the game/United.

[–]EmptysighsandwineRachel Riley 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Britain is fucked and it's depressing as fuck. In thoroughly ashamed and downright confused that so many people in North Wales voted Leave, we've been helped so much by the EU!

[–]TIDZ3Rash-Daddy 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Seeing Wales vote to leave was weird, don't you get a lot of grants from the EU?

[–]EmptysighsandwineRachel Riley 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes loads. It's just ridiculous.

[–]mattmanutdKeane 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I know I'm on the out side of this but I just think this over-nationalist backlash trend is both dumb and troubling. I know there are some serious issues, but we are seeing this trend all over the place. This is one example, another one is Donald Trumps huge rise in popularity based on similar "nationalist" sentiment, as well as the rise of fascist movements throughout Europe. Closing yourself off when there are issues isn't the answer, it's just another way of running away from your problems.

Interesting Trend

(Note I posted this in another thread, but I saw this pop up and thought it might be better here)

[–]yiyiyiyiHerrera 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Scary that people will prioritise being racist ahead of their own self interest.

[–]spoofexKing Cantona 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yet not surprising considering the hero worship Farage gets, and the BNP used to get.

[–]Reddevil077 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

To the people who voted leave, whatever the outcome is, it's what you deserve. If it turns to shit and you have to suffer, that's on you. If it works out , give yourself a pat on the back.

[–]TIDZ3Rash-Daddy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the EU are going to make an example out of the UK.

[–]imsowitty21 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The weather, assumptions from people thinking weren't crazy enough to leave and poor campaigning are the reasons why we're out of the EU

[–]weirdlytwistedJosé Mourinho 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm researching what impact Brexit would have on the Indian economy. Interesting!

[–]NGU-BenSchweinsteiger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Suddenly, Scotland is my favourite part of the UK, for as long as its part of it mind.

[–]CalimariaeSolskjaer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

On behalf of Norway I welcome you British to our small group of outsiders who don't get invited to the EU parties.

x

Also, thank you old English folk for royally anal raping us in terms of the stock market.

[–]mufctez 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who'd have thought that there'd be a bigger political disaster than Donald Trump in 2016?

[–]Carson99Wee Paddy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I honestly can't wait till everyone shuts the fuck up about this vote. Leading up to it was bad, but this morning it's already doing my head in. I didn't know so many people on reddit and my facebook were economists or actually knew what the fuck they were talking about, because honestly who the hell knows what is going to happen in the next few years

[–]theatreofdreamNumber One 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am waiting for news about my job application. I have already finished going through all rounds (8 in total), there's still 1 more to go but mostly pertaining to logistics .... this is a job that I've always wanted and I am more than eager to switch company.... please wish me luck, I am very nervous and hoping to receive good news !