全 83 件のコメント

[–]Admiralbiatch2 47ポイント48ポイント  (22子コメント)

You know, I honestly can't get behind this controversy after seeing that stream. I've noticed a lot of people who have reacted to this controversy have seemed to miss the fungi joke and that having the same letter in a series of words is a form of rhyming. Also, as many have pointed out, the -gate suffix is just a thing we use in our culture to denote a scandal which has been in use since before gamer gate. I mean, I just don't see how it relates to gamer gate in anyway unless you just look only at the screenshots she uses and you have been up to date with gamergate which I think is asking a bit much for a localizer to keep tabs on. I agree with you that "just because you don't mean for a joke to be harmful doesn't mean it isn't" is very true, but I don't think the localizer should be scolded for this since the reference is not an obvious one, especially if you watch the stream.

[–]FibreglassFlagsSJW-neutral -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've noticed a lot of people who have reacted to this controversy have seemed to miss the fungi joke and that having the same letter in a series of words is a form of rhyming.

That's silly and missing the point of why the joke is even there to begin with.

Here's the thing: No one would be talking about the "Fungi" thing if the premise of this "joke" was anything other than "Sufflegate: Exposed", and unless the Watergate scandal had been about Nixon smuggling biological weapons out of a hotel room (it wasn't), then this crappy pun simply didn't even gel with its supposed context. What's more: Why Watergate? Are we in the 70s? Is Paper Mario secretly a Futurama spin-off that I am not aware of? No, of course it's a #gamergate reference! C'mon now!

I just don't see how it relates to gamer gate in anyway unless you just look only at the screenshots she uses and you have been up to date with gamergate

Considering 1) how inherently jarring it is to have a Watergate reference in a game like this (as NoA is unlikely aiming to appease the Baby Boomer demographics), 2) how NoA has recently reacted to the #gamergate lynch mob and to the subsequent backlash from critics over Alison Repp's firing and 3) how #gamergate has been troublesome enough in the industry that even this has happened, the room for benefit of the doubt is no more than razor thin at this point. More likely, as someone else has already pointed out in another thread, the "joke" is indeed a #gamergate dog whistle worded to be (barely) interpretable as a Watergate reference just to maintain a layer of deniability. We have been dealing with the same misogynistic dung heap for almost two years now, so why is it still so hard for some people here to see through such elementary level of coyness?

[–]wightjiltSchrodinger's Cuck 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Are we in the 70s?

I say again, "-gate" is a modern meme too.

[–]Admiralbiatch2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Why do we mention nazis when we talk about Trump? Who is the target audience for this joke, the silent generation?" is all I can think of when people pretend Watergate is some vague historical event.

[–]thedzthat happened 27ポイント28ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think we can all mostly agree on three things (I hope):

  1. An act doesn't have to be malicious or even intentional to warrant criticism

  2. Making a -gate joke in a video game in 2016 that also includes references to ruined careers and "exposing" is super tone deaf, given everything that the industry went through in 2014 and 2015. TBH I even kinda cringed at the -gate jokes in Batman and other games, even if it was mocking Gators.

  3. A major game developer/publisher (even through its localization arm) shouldn't be able to realistically claim ignorance of GamerGate, given the widespread coverage it got both in gaming press and mainstream press over the past several years.

[–]GreyWardenThorgaSocialJusticeZordon[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

A major game developer/publisher (even through its localization arm) shouldn't be able to realistically claim ignorance of GamerGate, given the widespread coverage it got both in gaming press and mainstream press over the past several years.

Especially given one of their coworkers was fired not long ago after GG dug up things from her over completely bullshit reasons.

[–]slightnihilist 15ポイント16ポイント  (7子コメント)

It may be hard for a lot of you to accept, but the vast overwhelming majority of people who play games have never heard of gamergate and if they have, don't care about it whatsoever. People who see a reference to gamergate in paper mario are those who think gamergate is actually important. Which it isn't. Nintendo don't need to be in touch with a niche part of their demographic because some people might get upset. That is a ludicrous argument.

[–]menandskyla -4ポイント-3ポイント  (6子コメント)

[–]slightnihilist 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

the vast overwhelming majority of people who play games have never heard of gamergate and if they have, don't care about it whatsoever. Nintendo don't need to be in touch with a niche part of their demographic because some people might get upset.

[–]piwikiwi⚔Headcanons are very useful in ship-to-ship combat⚔ 15ポイント16ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think that the people on this sub are overestimating the influence of this all gamergate thing. I wouldn't have caught this myself and I've been here for two years:S, this seems like people seeing things they want to see

[–]rkingett 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with you. I think Quinn just had a knee jerk reaction and did not think about the context or intent.

[–]menandskyla -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wouldn't have caught this myself

yeah, well, it wasn't a joke at your expense, so why would you?

this seems like people seeing things they want to see

you think a victim of 2 and a half years of harassment wants to see jokes made at her expense?

[–]piwikiwi⚔Headcanons are very useful in ship-to-ship combat⚔ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Correct me if I am wrong but it wasn't Zoe Quinn herself who tweeted this, right? I follow her on twitter and I haven't seen her comment on this.

She did comment on this, I stand corrected

I wonder why though, wtf would they do this? It seems like such a weird reference to put in a game.

To quote Austin Walker:"Put more simply: Hey Nintendo, if intentional, that's real shitty. If unintentional, consider being more aware in the future."

[–]dog_obgyn 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

The split on this is honestly kind of interesting since a lot of conflict gets modded out of this sub. I don't really know enough about the history of Watergate to give a fair say about that angle, but when you almost literally say "Five Guys" (yeah I get the fungi joke but if you wanted to make the joke about the ZQ Five Guys reference it also could fit just as well) and XXXGate it's pretty hard for someone who has heard of GamerGate before to not think that's what it's a reference to even if you meant Watergate. So yes I could see they MEANT Watergate but if you had heard of the GamerGate circumstances it seems to fit a little bit better, which is pretty awful. Does that make ZQ right in this situation? Not necessarily, but I think the argument on either side is fair enough that there's no reason to shut out discussion about it.

[–]A_Dubious_RatSkeptical RPG Fodder 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well said. I'm hoping that once the dust settles and all sides realize the multiple possibilities that could've led to this, people can shift the discussion from "what was the intent" to "how did the localization team not predict this was going to happen" so we can try to prevent accidents like this (or distasteful decisions if this wasn't an accident) from happening again.

[–]SegataSanshiroSocial Justice Sorcerer 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

"how did the localization team not predict this was going to happen"

I think this kind of thought process might come from being in a community where the rhetoric around Gamergate is extremely well-known. Even within the games industry, I doubt Gamergate's terminology is extremely widespread.

[–]chewinchawingumPokémon Nintendo Killer Cop 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

Generally speaking, most folks refer to the Watergate Seven. GG is censorshipping 2 people out of the story.

just because you don't mean for a joke to be harmful doesn't mean it isn't.

Yeah, this.

[–]menandskyla 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

good OP, bad thread.

[–]WizeOaldOwlSocial Justice Wigglytuff 7ポイント8ポイント  (20子コメント)

just because you don't mean for a joke to be harmful doesn't mean it isn't.

Give this person a megaphone so they can repeat this. Shout it from the mountain tops.

[–]AngryDM 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'd rather this person pull a Ten Commandments, and like in the movie, deal some divine wrath.

[–]GreyWardenThorgaSocialJusticeZordon[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Look you don't want to give me the power to direct divine wrath because it would get ugly REAL quick.

[–]AngryDM 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

The smoke from thousands of burning bodypillows with sexualized cartoon children on them would fill the sky.

[–]GreyWardenThorgaSocialJusticeZordon[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Also the Republicans would need to find a new nominee for President real quick unless they're okay making a pillar of salt the leader of the free world.

[–]climbandmaintain -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

But Marco Rubio gave up and is running for his senate seat again.

BURN.

[–]chewinchawingumPokémon Nintendo Killer Cop -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Taking bets on how long before this appears on KiA as a threat to assassinate a Presidential candidate... Nah, who am I kidding? You're not /u/IrbyTremor so you probably don't have obsessive stalkers. XD

[–]iamspacedadPsy-ops Specialist 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

This whole thing is ridiculous. I'm leaning heavily towards 'unintentional but should have been caught.'

Whatever the case, Quinn should have played it smart and tried to find out more info before making accusations - because her jumping the gun and being wrong will just draw more negative attention and harassment. People who already were harassing her before are going to try to use this as yet another abusive angle to try and discredit her.

That said - to a degree she's right to be upset because this really should have been caught before it created unintentional drama. Whether it was intentional or not it was already resulting in harassment being directed at her again.

Anyway, cases like this are why as a rule of thumb these days I try to stand back and observe before jumping in with accusations on stuff. Because knee-jerking or bandwagoning often ends in disaster and embarrassment.

[–]Dancing_Ghost 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Whatever the case, Quinn should have played it smart and tried to find out more info before making accusations - because her jumping the gun and being wrong will just draw more negative attention and harassment. People who already were harassing her before are going to try to use this as yet another abusive angle to try and discredit her.

So, hey. I know what you're intending and stuff, but this comes across like you're blaming Zoe for her harassment.

[–]iamspacedadPsy-ops Specialist 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, I'm aware how easily what I said could be taken as victim-blaming. I'm trying to take pains to make it clear that I am not.

The people harassing her are the only ones to blame for her harassment. I'm just saying that stuff like this is just blood in the water for sharks, who are looking for any mistakes the victim makes with hyper-scrutiny.

[–]GreyWardenThorgaSocialJusticeZordon[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

To me it just illustrates how raw the nerve still must be for Zoe Quinn to perceive this as being a joke at her expense. I cannot imagine going through what she did for two years.

[–]somethingsomeAlt 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I feel bad for turning my nose up at this game originally. It seems like a bit of a step up from sticker star after seeing this video. Unrelated kinda

[–]Admiralbiatch2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're the smartest person in this thread and you didn't know it.

[–]metroidcompositeSJW GTA developer. 소녀시대 화이팅! -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Two gameplay events, a Hide-and-Seek minigame and a variation of the 'Ball in the Cup' game seperate the mention of Five Fun Guys and the reference to 'Shufflegate'

Just watched it, Five Fun Guys are mentioned several more times after the hide and seek as well.

As a game developer--I'm pretty skeptical about the idea that this translator didn't know what they were putting in. When I had control over a small piece of content and was pretty new to the industry (so 11 years ago now) I snuck in some subtle references. Like we had a bunch of sample poker hands so that people could play our poker minigame, so...my example for "Full House" was 66699. Nobody said anything about it, and...the game shipped with it. Heheheheh. (I wouldn't do that again if I had the chance, but I was young).

I would be curious about how this scene reads in Japanese as well--since just like most English speaking game developers know of GamerGate, so to do most Japanese speaking game developers. And from what I can tell Japanese developers mostly see it as a joke (whereas western game developers are a bit more afraid for their safety).

Bottom line, developers spend days constructing scenes that take you minutes to play--yeah, there's gonna be references in there. Yeah, if it seems like something might maybe be an intentional reference, it probably is intentional.

[–]wightjiltSchrodinger's Cuck 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

One other thing people need to keep in mind is that -gate scandals are an omnipresent part of American culture. It is possible for the shufflegate thing to be a reference to the tendency for people to arbitrarily add "gate" to the end of every vaguely scandalous thing.

[–]lastres0rtMy Webcomic's Too Good for Brad Wardell -5ポイント-4ポイント  (3子コメント)

... on some level, do I really care if it was malice or incompetence?

It's possible to make a GG "reference" or joke without it being a dig at ZQ. Of course, there's a world of difference between "hurr hurr, five guys, career ruined!" and "hurr, hurr, grow up, hater, you're surrounded by the cootie brigade."

[–]SegataSanshiroSocial Justice Sorcerer 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

"hurr hurr, five guys, career ruined!"

In this case, it's more like:

"Here come the five fun guys! Get it? Fungi!"

...

[two puzzles and several word bubbles later]

"Oh no! You found out I'm cheating at this shell game! My con artist career would be ruined if this got out! I'll give you this key in exchange for silence."

[–]Many_Rainy_Days 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

Which is why it's transparently a Watergate reference. The "Shufflegate Exposed" is a direct call to the famous book "Watergate Exposed". Further quotes (including mention of a hotel room) hammer this home. There's also "Five Fun Guys" working underneath the crook because that's how many burglars were involved in the Watergate prosecution.

The only thing that's shocking about it is that so many don't understand that "Gamergate" in itself is a "Watergate" reference. Infact, every 'gate' in the media is a watergate reference. Zoe Quinn, when it comes to outside of reddit and comment sections is not really a big deal.

[–]Imjustmean 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh they understand the Watergate/gamergate link they're just ignoring it.

There's no reason for Nintendo to try and cater to gg and if treehouse translated this, well I don't think there's any love from them to gg either after the fire fates thing.