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top 200 commentsshow all 470
[–]bombcartCA 290 points291 points292 points  (7 children)

YOU'RE FUCKING A WHITE DAILYMAIL

[–]vgraz2kMA 50 points51 points52 points  (5 children)
ARE YOU KIDDING MEEEE????
[–]falconrider42AL 35 points36 points37 points  (3 children)
I'VE DONE MY RESEARCH!!
[–]hashtagstuffmatters 15 points16 points17 points  (2 children)
" BUILD A WALL! BUILD A WALL! "
[–]derpexMAGA 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
[–]Cam_The_Man 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
20 feet higher
[–]WeLoveOurPeoplePOW 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
📢📢📢📢📢📢📢📢
[–]Hold_It_You_DummiesTX 304 points305 points306 points  (22 children)
What's my gender? 🚺🚹❓❓Did you just 😱 ask me 😂😂 what my gender 👧🏽👦🏽 was❓❗️Oh my god, you are LITERALLY 👋🏻 the most IGNORANT 💩 AND ILLTERATE 📚📚📚 ❌❌ FUCK I have EVER seen👀👀👀 browsing before 😂😂😂😂😂 What gives you the RIGHT ✔️✔️ to ask me what my 🚺🚹🚺🚹 gender is? 😂😂😂 MHMM? NOTHING ❌❌ THATS WHAT ❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️Since you're SOOOOOOO curious🙇🏼🙇🏼🙇🏼🙇🏼 I'll have you know ☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼 that I am a 🚺🚹 G E N D E R F L U I D 🚹🚺 I'm not gonna sit here ⬇️⬇️ and explain 📢📢 what that is to someone as IGNORANT 😂💩💩 as you, but I'm gonna tell you anyways ☝🏼️🙇🏼☝🏼🙇🏼☝🏼🙇🏼 Being G 🚺 E 🚹 N 🚺 D 🚹 E 🚺 R 🚹 F 🚺 L 🚹 U 🚺 I 🚹 D means that I am both M A L E 🍆💦👦🏽 (cis scum😷😷😷😷😷) and F E M A L E👧🏽👠💄🍑 ❗️❗️❗️❗️ I can swap ⬇️⬆️➡️⬅️ between these genders 👌🏻😂 as I please❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️ You're ignorance 😷 is literally OOZING 💦💦💦💦 out 😂😂😷😷😂😷😂😂
[–]TwocurvedhollowfangsVA 149 points150 points151 points  (12 children)
This post just gave me cancer.
[–]Sabre1100CAN 44 points45 points46 points  (6 children)
I couldn't even read a third of that. RIP anybody's brain if they try to read the whole thing.
[–]bows_onlyFL 31 points32 points33 points  (0 children)
Can confirm. Read whole thing. Brain RIP'd.
[–]no_coatsSC 14 points15 points16 points  (3 children)
I did it. Called out of work tomorrow. Fuck it all.
[–]Berluscones_For_Sale 16 points17 points18 points  (2 children)
no wonder sjw's can't hold a job they read that shit daily on tumblr
[–]hiphoprisingSC 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
That was some good cancer
[–]simpleclear 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
cancer isn't transmissible, but you may be pozzed
[–]Dent18IN 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)
The car's on fire and there's no driver at the wheel. The sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides. And a dark wind blows
The government is corrupt, and we're on so many drugs with the radio on and the curtains drawn.
We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine. And the machine is bleeding to death.
The sun has fallen down, and the billboards are all leering. And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles
[–]staytaytayCAN 15 points16 points17 points  (1 child)
💯
[–]ToppestOfZozzleNY 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
👌👌👌👌👌👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👍👍👌👌👌👌👌👍👍👍
[–]Und3adBoss24 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
Thank you for this.
[–]CaNANDian 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
that's some good shit right there
[–]no_coatsSC 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
fuck my eyes
[–]Jared-Fogle 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Saved for trolling purposes
[–]_raisinCA 223 points224 points225 points  (16 children)
“
McEwan is not the first high profile personality to offer controversial views on transgenderism.
Because penis = man is controversial...
[–]IxozielGA 75 points76 points77 points  (5 children)
It wasn't controversial for thousands of years, but now people have too much time on their hands and thus must invent completely insane views based on a distorted version of reality and logical loops so loopy that they wouldn't be allowed on a roller coaster.
[–]_raisinCA 23 points24 points25 points  (1 child)
This is what I've always been saying! when life is too easy, you get bored, and when you get bored, your mind is fixated on trivial crap. Humans are supposed to be busy.
[–]PANTSONMIXTAPE 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
This is why letting people be vegetarians is idiotic
[–]kingcocoa21 3 points4 points5 points  (2 children)
Neither was slavery. I agree that political correctness has gone too far, and that people should be challenged on their views, but arguments such as "it's been this way in the past, so it must be that way now too" aren't gonna cut it.
[–]IxozielGA 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
"Slavery" isn't a logical statement, it's just a method of forcing people to do things.
[–]EternallyMiffed 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Of course they are going to cut it. Especially for basic biology when we care to make them. One doesn't get to deconstruct biology willy nilly.
[–]QQ222MAGA 139 points140 points141 points  (26 children)
As a member of the trans community, he said nothing even the slightest bit offensive.
He gave his opinion, and lets face it, 99.9999999% of the time, people with penises are men, so stating otherwise is comically butthurt.
He then acknowledges our struggle both with ourselves and with feminists, both of which should be welcomed from an outside point of view. And the criticism about the "holier than thou" view point is 100% spot on, and in the same fucking article, the regressives prove his point for him by calling for an apology for his 'hurtful and dangerous' comment.
Please, get your fee fees in order, nothing is dangerous about this.
[–]Sincetheend 18 points19 points20 points  (11 children)
How do you feel about the people suggesting transgenderism is a mental disorder?
[–]QQ222MAGA 67 points68 points69 points  (8 children)
It is a mental disorder. However, if I didn't transition Id have attempted suicide again, and probably would have attempted until I completed.
That being said, I would much prefer a treatment and to go back living as a man, but as it is, that option does not exist. Nothing medical science can offer works, transitioning doesn't really work, but it gives us the opportunity to live our lives in peace with a slightly better success rating.
[–]tholinssTX 21 points22 points23 points  (5 children)
It does seem like there are two camps in the trans community; the people who would prefer living as their birth sex and those who would rather transition even if a more complete treatment was available.
Personally, I think our grandkids are going to look back on what happened to people in this period the same way we look back at the 1950s and lobotomies. To me, it seems like we need to do further research into therapies that would allow people to avoid surgery but regain a sense of well-being, but everything has stopped at this LGBT Rubicon. Like somehow doing that research in and of itself is bigoted.
If it's a matter of brain chemistry or other imbalances, there must be a way to correct it.
[–]QQ222MAGA 31 points32 points33 points  (3 children)
I agree that the problem here is that the medical and psychological worlds cannot even begin to think about looking into this solution. I remember reading stuff on this as well as watching a short documentary on it (which I would love to find as a source material) where people lose their client base and sometimes lose their practicing licenses, all for thinking that homosexuality and/or gender dysphoria might possibly reasonably have some kind of treatment.
I would go so far as to say that most transgender people would love to be cis, we would drop EVERYTHING to stop feeling this way. Everyone likes to think trans people are having the time of our lives being trans, like its so much fun. Its shit. Its shit all day everyday and impacts so many aspects of our lives that it is overwhelming at times.
But nooooo, a treatment would be bigoted and problematic.
Personally, I would like to see my body going to medical science once I pass away. I would love my brain to be dissected and better understood, even if it brings us .0000001% closer to the answer, it will be worth it.
[–]tholinssTX 10 points11 points12 points  (2 children)
It's really sad that things have gotten to this point. While advocacy for understanding was obviously important, it seems to have gone overboard. IDK, the message I see from it these days is that everybody who's trans wants to transition not to help their mental state, but because they really want to be the gender they perceive themselves as (ie, it's not about being healthy, but being a woman/man). That's subtle, but it definitely changes the way we talk about it.
Transgender folks clearly have a medical issue that deserves the same kind of rigorous review and research as any other. By settling on an imperfect therapy, advocates are possibly preventing a better one, or even a cure, from being found. It only hurts people, in the end, and needlessly politicizes something that shouldn't have to be politicized to get attention.
It might take some serious studies like that in order to get a full picture of how to help folks. I hope you won't have to do that, though.
[–]QQ222MAGA 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
Well, I think the mental state and the gender we perceive ourselves as is basically the same thing. Being trans means we want depart from our birth gender, typically speaking, as much as possible.
However, I think the problem with trans stuff in politics is that the trans community (and the entirety of the regressive left for that matter) absolutely refuses to accept anyone else's worldview as well as refusing to compromise. On ANYTHING.
Honestly, I do not think the kind of research for transgender health will not happen in my lifetime. Its too "problematic" and there is a very nice market for doctors, surgeons, and therapists who specialize in our problems. There is just no incentive to change this model. Its a damn shame.
[–]Aphelion27 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
I was going to say something totally pedantic about this being 1 in a billion... but I read the rest of your posts, and you are extremely reasonable and sound like a wonderful person. I'm so sorry for your struggle and thankful my body image and body mostly line up..
[–]inchira 18 points19 points20 points  (5 children)
“
As a member of the trans community, he said nothing even the slightest bit offensive.
Always nice to hear from trans people who aren't total fruitcakes and inevitable suicide cases. It must be terribly depressing to see your people represented by such utter lunatics. Personally I don't care what gender you are or what gender you like to go to bed with -- if you have the right opinions, you're alright by me!
[–]QQ222MAGA 47 points48 points49 points  (4 children)
Its 50/50 lonely and depressing. I don't keep many transfriends, or LGBT friends for that matter, because of this regressive ideology. Their loss, they are going to get Trump and they are going to like it.
[–]sexy_bethanyMAGA 21 points22 points23 points  (1 child)
Trans centipede here, you couldn't be any righter
[–]QQ222MAGA 13 points14 points15 points  (0 children)
One day, one day our community will turn itself around. Right now we have such a bad reputation, which is probably well deserved.
It is going to be an uphill battle though.
[–]lukefwjrossAUS 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
Shuts me off, I'm alone down here due to my anti safe space views
But fuckem, I'd rather be shunned than do their mental gymnastics
[–]QQ222MAGA 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
You and I both.
[–][deleted] 73 points74 points75 points  (6 children)

I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping hot sticky loads on disgusting foreigners. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I’m fucking retarded but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me “Apache” and respect my right to kill from above and kill needlessly. If you can’t accept me you’re a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.

[–]cuntrymouse 20 points21 points22 points  (0 children)
I sexually Identify as a steel beam. Ever since 9/11 I dreamed of getting drawn closer and closer to my melting point by jet fuel under the Twin Tower letting them drop on disgusting foreigners. People say to me that a person being a steel beam is Impossible and I’m fucking retarded but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install steel beams and jet fuel on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me “Steel Beam” and respect my right to not melt by jet fuel and kill needlessly. If you can’t accept me you’re a steeliphobe and need to check your metalical privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points  (3 children)
I sexually Identify as a Guided Missile Cruiser. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of sailing on the oceans dropping hot sticky loads on disgusting foreigners. People say to me that a person being a cruiser is Impossible and I'm fucking retarded but I don't care, I'm beautiful. I'm having a plastic surgeon install gas turbine engines, BGM-109 Tomahawk and RGM-88 Harpoon missiles on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me "Tico" and respect my right to kill from the sea and kill needlessly. If you can't accept me you're a shipaphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.
[+][deleted]  (2 children)
[deleted]
    [–]brandus 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    Fuck the haters and tuberphiles. You be you!
    [–]animal_backwardsTX 450 points451 points452 points  (315 children)
    Transgenderism is a mental disorder and encouraging it is encouraging mental illness.
    You don't tell someone with schizophrenia to listen to the voices in their head.
    [–]brianbrennanNJ 125 points126 points127 points  (83 children)
    idk what to call it but I think the point that milo made is a really good one. That right now, there isn't nearly enough research about it because of political correctness. Anyone who tries to research it and comes up with negative conclusions is labeled as a bigot. And he says how cruel would it be if in 50 years we realized how wrong we were to let people get surgery when there were other issues going on. So, idk what my opinion is, but I'd rather figure out what the hell is going on first.
    [–]regollyekCA 48 points49 points50 points  (56 children)
    On one of Milo's podcasts, he mentioned a study that stated that most transgender persons post-op are just as depressed as pre-op. He also said that the first hospital to offer gender reassignment no longer offers the procedure, because they felt it was not helping.
    I'm source-less though, it would require digging.
    It could very much be a case of "female brain in male body" and vice versa, if there's physical support for it. It could also very much be a mental illness related to body dysmorphia. There's body dysmorphia patients that think their life will improve if they cut their hand off, but... we generally don't let them do that. Either way, it definitely needs more research.
    [–]tomburnesMN 41 points42 points43 points  (9 children)
    The study states that trans people are more depressed than their cis peers, but SRS improves their situation
    if you would like some links:
    Studies on brain structure: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21618223 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843193
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11826131
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15724806
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16140461
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16870186
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17765230
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18056697
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980961
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18962445
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19341803
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20562024
    http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/8/1900.abstract http://www.eje-online.org/content/155/suppl_1/S107
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.5.6564
    [–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points  (2 children)
    It's definitely a complicated issue. Like you mentioned, there are some people who show signs of having a "female" brain in a male body. I think that would indicate a very logical reason to transition, right? But I'm also sure there's some people with mental issues and no one is trying to actually figure out the root cause and instead acting like transitioning will solve everything. It's sad, I feel bad for the people who get it pushed on them (and the people who legitimately have the brain differences and people act like being trans isn't a "real" thing), and I think people should try to come from a place of understanding on a case-by-case basis rather than it's all good or it's all bad.
    [–]msgallows 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
    Like almost every other transwoman I was required to go through psychological testing and be vetted by more than one doctor. It was not (and still is not) an easy process to go through that any ol' mentally ill person can just breeze through. Doctors do withhold transition medicines and do refuse to perform surgeries on patients who are not mentally and socially prepared or medically qualified.
    As for me, both my mental and physical health improved dramatically after getting the correct hormones. I am tested regularly to make sure my body is not damaged by certain medications. All in all it's been pretty responsible.
    We don't have a willy-nilly system here in the states, don't know what it's like elsewhere. Doctors in Thailand will perform the sex reassignment surgery so long as you purchase a one-time visit with a staff psychologist, just to cover their asses. That shit, that's irresponsible. That should not be stateside and I wish it could be stopped but what can we do? Nothing.
    At most places and most times you're not right, no one gets it pushed on them. If anything the entire society we live in tries to push us out of it, with real threats and real consequences. Doctors certainly don't push it and the hyperbole about pre-teen transition is just sensationalism for tabloid reading ignants. That is exceedingly rare.
    Last but not least, why do I have to have a female brain to be a transwoman? Never claimed to have any cis-woman organs. Never claimed to be medically female. I only claim to be a transwoman and that isn't debatable and it's not complicated either.
    [–]NPerez99CA 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    The "female brain" thing actually taking hold among feminists who have been screaming "there's no difference in brains" for the past 100 years really astounds me. But here we are.
    [–]tholinssTX 11 points12 points13 points  (4 children)
    “
    And he says how cruel would it be if in 50 years we realized how wrong we were to let people get surgery when there were other issues going on. So, idk what my opinion is, but I'd rather figure out what the hell is going on first.
    This is literally Dr. Paul McHugh's position on the matter.
    You can imagine what the press think about him.
    [–]McGoliath 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
    And I know I wouldn't want too conduct any legitimate studies on the matter when there's a decent chance you'll get no funding and an assload of hate from the public because of the results
    [–]simpleclear 3 points4 points5 points  (10 children)
    There was a ton of research into it, but none of it produced the results the LGBT crowd wanted so they shifted the research into queer intersectionality, transgressing transphobic performativity, and other varieties of word-salad.
    [–]tomburnesMN 5 points6 points7 points  (9 children)
    Wrong
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22051008 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22105293 http://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Advocacy%20and%20Newsroom/Position%20Statements/ps2012_TransgenderCare.pdf http://www.gires.org.uk/assets/Medpro-Assets/AMA122.pdf http://www.wpath.org/site_page.cfm?pk_association_webpage_menu=1352&pk_association_webpage=3947 http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/member-groups-sections/glbt-advisory-committee/glbt-resources/lgbt-health-resources.page http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx http://www.dsm5.org/documents/gender%20dysphoria%20fact%20sheet.pdfwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24344788 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3219066 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21699661 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19040622 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24275005 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574768 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24281571 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20461468 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15842032 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11564029 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1158136006000491 http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1024086814364#page-1 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21618223 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843193
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11826131
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15724806
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16140461
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16870186
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17765230
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18056697
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980961
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18962445
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19341803
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20562024
    http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/8/1900.abstract http://www.eje-online.org/content/155/suppl_1/S107
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.5.6564
    [–]killingjokeradFL 188 points189 points190 points  (98 children)
    I 100% agree with you buddy. Everyone is afraid to call it what it is, mental disorder.
    [–]glc45NY 62 points63 points64 points  (83 children)
    I'm pretty sure the WHO is actually taking it off the list of mental disorders next time they have their annual meeting on it or whatever.
    Personally I'm pretty neutral on the subject.
    [–]treefinger1235 10 points11 points12 points  (2 children)
    The American Psychological Association and the DSM already did
    [–]sjw_modsUSA 94 points95 points96 points  (78 children)
    Do whatever the fuck you want, but don't force acceptance or rules on other people
    On the other hand, what I believe, it's a mental disorder like bipolarism and needs to be treated.
    [–]glc45NY 25 points26 points27 points  (43 children)
    I haven't seen any ways it can actually be reliably treated. I'm fine with calling it a mental disorder, that makes sense. I just think if there's no way to treat it then they should be able to live how they want as long as they're not forcing stuff on others.
    [–]saltspoofFL 72 points73 points74 points  (31 children)
    Agreed. As a transgender person myself, even I see it as a mental disorder. And as with all mental disorders you look for the cure and for transgender people that is transitioning to the opposite gender.
    [–]MidaechUSA 76 points77 points78 points  (24 children)
    I think where some people part ways with you on your statements that we don't REALLY have the tech to totally make a man a woman or vice Versa.
    I mean, I really don't care what people do, but scientifically and genetically speaking someone who transitions is not a woman. There are so many things we lack the ability to change. DNA, skeletal structure, working reproductive organs, to name a few.
    So in a sense it feels like we're telling people the cure is to play a really high stakes game of dress up... Which seems like an odd cure.
    Wouldn't a better solution be to help people be happy with the body they have? Similar to how you treat someone with body dismorphia? Instead the treatment is medical mutilation? That just seems odd.
    You seem like an awesome person, I just want to be sure we are actually doing right by you as a society.
    There is literally no other mental disorder that is treated in this manner. Every other type the opposite tactic is taken. And the success rate with this one, when you look at the suicide rates, is just not good.
    [–]saltspoofFL 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
    I agree with you almost completely. I agree we don't have the tech to make someone completely the opposite gender, but nothing else has been shown to work in transgender people. Transgenderism is a true mental disorder and lifelong condition. I was wrong to use the word cure in my original comment. If new research found a cure to transgenderism that would make me want my dick, I would be first in line to get it. Unfortunately I don't believe that we will come close to getting anything like that anytime soon.
    What do we do when someone has an incurable disease? We make them comfortable and try to treat the symptoms as best we can. I feel like this is what we have to do with transgenderism.
    [–]sexy_bethanyMAGA 27 points28 points29 points  (15 children)
    “
    Wouldn't a better solution be to help people be happy with the body they have? Similar to how you treat someone with body dismorphia? Instead the treatment is medical mutilation? That just seems odd.
    That's called conversion therapy, and has been proven to not be effective and to actually be harmful.
    Transition may not be perfect (and speaking from experience, it isn't) but it's the best we've got now.
    [–]hasapointUSA 26 points27 points28 points  (7 children)
    Conversion therapy is the equivalent of telling a schizophrenic to make friends with the voices and remember they're not real. An actual treatment that makes people whose brain chemistry doesn't line up with their body by fixing the chemical/hormonal imbalance would be preferable to invasive, irreversible surgery (that can't change the sex chromosomes in one's DNA or give them reproductive functions) would be a better alternative to many. If a total conversion (including growing functioning ovaries/testes etc. and swapping Xs and Ys) would be a good option to have, but the current technology is far from there.
    As it is, transitioning (with or without the full surgical procedures) doesn't appear to help the mental state of people suffering from gender dysphoria. Suicide rates remain alarmingly high, depression is rampant, and those seem like signs to me that the current treatments aren't working either.
    [–]MidaechUSA 15 points16 points17 points  (4 children)
    Is there any data on comparison between the two types and suicide rates? I've only seen data on suicide rates for transition and these are not good at all. Transition isn't exactly a rousing success, how much worse is the alternative?
    [–]sexy_bethanyMAGA 12 points13 points14 points  (3 children)
    It's a lot worse, since you're still stuck as your birth gender but the "therapy" at best has no effect.
    [–]MidaechUSA 8 points9 points10 points  (2 children)
    That's not a "lot worse" then since transitioning suicide rates seem to be around the same as for those who don't transition but don't get the therapy.
    So... it's kind of the same either way? Except if you don't transition you don't mutilate your body?
    Ugh. Tough.
    That's why I wish we could get past all the PC bullshit and really get actual research done on this. Because people need help and what we're doing now is not getting the job done.
    Trans people are really great people, we need them as a happy and mentally healthy part of our society, whatever it takes.
    [+][deleted]  (1 child)
    [deleted]
      [–]MidaechUSA 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      Some say he used to be a woman. All we know is... He's The Stig's Fat American Cousin!
      [–]izza123CAN 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      Does not make a lot of sense. We don't usually treat delusions by indulging them.
      [–]Miraten 6 points7 points8 points  (2 children)
      But don't you see? I identify as a toddler thus I am a fucking toddler. Some people are born with babyfaces and never grow up to look like adults, are you denying such people exist?
      [–]killingjokeradFL 17 points18 points19 points  (1 child)
      I identify as an attack helicopter.
      [–]bsbbtnh 62 points63 points64 points x2 (15 children)
      Everything is a mental disorder. We are victims of chemical reactions that occur in our brains.
      We have to decide when a persons mind should be treated. And I think that comes down to when another persons mental state affects others. Schizophrenia can lead to violent outbursts, depression can lead to a persons disregard for others, things like that should be treated.
      Someone thinking they are a girl when they have a penis, that doesn't really affect anybody. Just because somebody's life choices may disgust you, or may be the symptoms of a mental disorder, doesn't mean we should change those people to make them conform to our ideals.
      We have to stop dictating the lives of others, and live our own lives in a way that exemplifies our own morals and values. A man dressed as a woman doesn't affect my life. A man sucking another man's dick doesn't affect my life. Somebody aborting a baby doesn't affect my life, but I can understand that is much more of a grey area than most of the other social issues we have to deal with.
      But if we push to control other people's decisions, to control their lives to live according to our own ideals, we'll someday find ourselves at the other end of the stick.
      Religion, especially that practiced by radicals, is a symptom of mental illness. Do we outlaw religion and treat the religious as mentally ill, medicating their beliefs away?
      Edit: thanks for the gold, and also the conversation!
      [–]Reluctant_swimmerVA 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      I have no issue with trans people, and I believe you should be able to do whatever you'd like with your body, so long as I don't have to pay for it. My big issue with transgenderism is that currently liberals are trying to push it on to children and make it trendy. They are actively encouraging children to make the decision to mutilate their genitalia before they are fully independent of making that decision, and understand the consequences. And that absolutely fucked up.
      [–]CThaxter 5 points6 points7 points  (6 children)
      As a woman in Washington, I am now expected to share showers and locker rooms and saunas and dressing rooms with biological men who feel they are women. So, it does affect me and my expectation of privacy when in public facilities.
      [–]IntelWarriorJPN 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
      Would you prefer sharing them with post-op Trans male?
      [–]CThaxter 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
      Women and girls should not be expected to shower with and undress in front of biological males who are fully intact. That is an affront to the dignity and identity of women and girls everywhere. Neither should biological men and boys be asked to shower with and undress in front of biological women. That also is an affront to their dignity and identity as males.
      Whether a woman decides to take hormones to grow facial hair is beside the point. She should use either a gender neutral bathroom, or use the women's room. I've seen the photos of trans men, and they still look like women to me despite the facial hair. They have the bone structure and physique of biological women.
      The feelings of 2/10ths of 1 percent of the population should not trump the rights, privacy, identity, and dignity of 99.9 percent of the population. This is just common sense. The pro-trans crowd always throw a picture of a trans male into the question as if to suggest that women would find them scary. We don't. It's easy to recognize them as female, just as it's so easy to recognize transfemales as male.
      [–]IntelWarriorJPN 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Ok, well have fun seeing this "biological woman" in the gym showering next to you: http://i.imgur.com/yZjygla.jpg
      [–]MarkRippetoesGlutes 6 points7 points8 points  (2 children)
      I don't get this complaint at all.
      For one thing, are your showers also vetted to prevent lesbians coming in? If the concern is that someone might be sexually interested in you then you need to do this also and lesbianism is much more common than being transgender.
      For another, if you want these rooms segregated strictly by biological sex/chromosome: Google image search "Buck Angel". I doubt most women would feel comfortable sharing a shower with him.....
      “
      So, it does affect me and my expectation of privacy when in public facilities.
      If they have individual cubicles then you have that expectation and this is again not an issue. If they are open plan I guarantee you that a large number of women have enjoyed viewing you naked body in a sexual way in these spaces during your lifetime (assuming you're not horrifically ugly that is) and your expectation of privacy is silly.
      EDIT: I'm seeing votes on this comment fluctuate so if any of those downvoting have specific counter arguments regarding any of the above points then I'd actually genuinely love to hear them. I don't see how most of these concerns are fundamentally different from the far more likely occurrence of sharing a rest/changing room with a homosexual but perhaps you can see a difference in which case, by all means, please explain.
      EDIT EDIT: And now it's marked as controversial. Still waiting on those counters guys. I thought covering your ears and going lalalala was what the cucks did?
      [–]VelostodonARMY 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
      By that logic, fuck it! All bathrooms are now coed! Problem solved!
      [–]MarkRippetoesGlutes 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Not at all. Practically speaking bathrooms are also segregated based on needs. Cubicles, urinals, mirrors, lighting all based on average needs and use cases. Traffic between the two is also different and for different reasons, again, on average. We design based on these situations but there will always be some people with unique needs.
      But to address your assertions directly; yeah actually, to some degree. Particularly if it's all cubicles etc, lots of places already do this. Fuck it, France's toilets have been like this for a while. I remember going to France as a kid, walking up to the urinal to pee and freaking the fuck out because some lady came in to queue for the cubicle behind me. The urinals were simply in the room where you wait to use the actual stall.
      As stated, if you care to actually address any of the points made directly, rather than go for a red herring, I'm all ears.
      [–][deleted]  (1 child)
      [deleted]
        [–]dextoriMA 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
        Many of others people mental illnesses don't affect us in any direct way, it's for the person who needs treatment to be cured. I'm sure someone would rather take a pill and feel ok in their body rather than mutilating it and having to take hormone changing drugs the rest of their life. I think it should be researched either way, we shouldn't let political correctness stop science and biology.
        [–]bsbbtnh 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
        People "mutilate" their bodies all the time to satisfy urges in their brains. Some people cut themselves which is unhealthy. Some people get cosmetic surgery, like breast implants, nose jobs, face lifts, all so they can feel better about themselves. Having a sex change is similar to those. Transgendered people don't just decide to do this overnight. There are requirements, like seeing a mental health professional for a couple years and having them sign off on it, spending a couple years living as the opposite gender.
        I'm sure that there is a possibility of using medications and cognitive therapy to curb ones desire with wanting to be a member of the opposite gender. Just as has been done with "treating" gays. But this form of repression leads to self hating, and a relapse can be dangerous (high risk of suicide). It also requires life long treatment, which just isn't offered for most people.
        Transgendered people have a high suicide rate outside of treatment, and the best treatment is to push self-acceptance, life skills to deal with discrimination and anxieties, hormone replacement, and in some cases, sex reassignment surgery. This is the most successful way to treat someone with gender disphoria, with the best outcome for the patient. We shouldn't be treating them with the goal to protect the insecurities of others.
        [–]dextoriMA 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        Mutilate may have been the wrong term, but cutting off your genitals is something entirely different than a simple nose job. And our current and old methods I'm sure we're inhumane and not effective, but we should still be able to pursue a cure if there is one. As I'm sure anyone would rather take a possibly temporary medication rather than permanent surgery.
        [–]MarkRippetoesGlutes 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
        You have mental illness and then you have just weird/rare/strange.
        The two things that are necessary to justify pathologising something (saying something is an illness rather than just "weird") are:
        1. It has to be unacceptable within society (the fact that this is cultural and subjective is important and necessary).
        2. It has to pose a risk of harm to yourself or others.
        Number 1. is how we ended up with homosexuality as a mental disorder for a bit. It's why talking to God is fine(ish) but talking to other voices is mentally ill.
        Most people who spout the whole "it's a mental illness/disorder"-bit clearly don't understand that those aren't objective terms re: the above. They seem to think that anything sufficiently "weird" or "rare" is automatically and aberration that needs removing rather than simply different function.
        The smarter amongst them seem to gravitate towards the suicide rate as a way to try to show that trans people a risk to themselves re: no. 2. But not only is that data fucking terrible, and the newer data suggests something rather different, but the alternatives are a fucking disaster.
        I should add there seems to be a strange desire to somehow make this more medical/scientific, more matter-of-fact ("men have penises, duh), as though these domains function that way too. They don't.
        In medicine, if we have someone who's body simply works differently, but poses no risk to them and is otherwise acceptable in the world in which they live: we do fucking nothing because there is no point. For an example in the other direction, many physical deformities are purely cosmetic with no risk of direct harm but we may choose to "fix" them due to the societal acceptance principle.
        I should say that I will grant one concession which I think is fair if somewhat controversial:
        There is a conversation that talks about this as "fixing" the brain or "fixing" the body to create congruency between the two so I'll use that language.
        If we currently try to "fix" the body I think we have to be very careful not to create a climate (which I think we have done) where people don't feel that they can research "fixing" the mind instead.
        It's a lot more complicated. It's certainly not possible now. But I'm certain that there would be some people that would want a mental rather than physical "fix" and I don't see anything wrong with that.
        [–]sexy_bethanyMAGA -4 points-3 points-2 points  (0 children)
        Get this comment on /r/all
        [–]uncannylizardCA 18 points19 points20 points  (10 children)
        If you can 'cure it' then you might have a point. But if you can't cure it then what's the point in shaming transsexual people? They have a compulsion and we are just making their lives worse by not accepting it. Who are we helping? I don't think it's like an infectious disease, or an ideology that spreads if you tolerate it. There's been no evidence of that.
        [–]MidaechUSA 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
        I don't think anyone is suggesting shaming.
        But by simply accepting it and looking no further we may be failing to find out what's really going on and thus really help these people.
        [–]CollateralNerdageWI 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
        By all means, let's do the damn research. No one WANTS to be trans and suffer from dysphoria and be targeted because of something they didn't choose to suffer from in the first place.
        But in the meantime, let's make sure we get those people the help they need from a certified professional, regardless of what that help entails.
        [–]treefinger1235 2 points3 points4 points  (5 children)
        The "cure" is transition
        [–][deleted]  (4 children)
        [deleted]
          [–]HighEnergyTrumpstarGA 4 points5 points6 points  (3 children)
          It's a treatment.
          [–]izza123CAN 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
          So it's the only delusion that you treat by indulging? Seems like a shit idea
          [–]KingR10 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
          ...that might work but we really don't know enough about the issue.
          [–]CollateralNerdageWI 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
          They suffer from it for the rest of their life regardless. Transition and therapy helps, but it doesn't fix the problem. It's a lifelong battle.
          [–]silverpanther17PA 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
          I really do have to agree with you here. I believe that transgenderism, just like schizophrenia and its ilk, are mental disorders, but that we simply don't have enough research or experience in the field of dealing with these disorders to actually combat them effectively. When these diseases don't end in the self-harm of the victim or anyone surrounding them, and they don't request treatment of any kind, however, there really isn't anything we can do. The question we have to ask ourselves is whether societal acceptance of such disorders is the correct course of action, if it helps the victims moreso than it hurts the rest of our nation. This is where the whole, "If my child went into a bathroom and saw another person of the opposite sex, what would they think?" argument comes into play, the only real source of harm that comes from this kind of societal acceptance, and if the price is a third, gender-neutral/handicapped/family bathroom becoming a more common sight, so be it.
          [–]Recolumn 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
          Specifically, Gender Dysphoria is the mental illness. Becoming transgender is the treatment for Gender Dysphoria, because there is no other known treatment.
          [–]HIVSkrillex 21 points22 points23 points  (4 children)
          As a guy I don't "feel" like a guy I am just me. Now they are starting to transition fucking children if they like skirts and Barbie. What the fuck!!
          [–]CelticsShmelticsCA 19 points20 points21 points  (1 child)
          This is where the argument makes no sense. Nobody "knows" what it feels like to have the brain of the other gender. Nobody. So how can somebody say they feel like a woman? On top of that, we are led to believe that gender is a societal construct. So which is it? Are you born with a female brain or did society turn your brain into a female's? Because there's more to being a female than gender roles, clothes, and make up.
          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
          I think you are confusing yourself here. People who want to transition aren't doing so because they're confused about their gender. They are transitioning because they are confused about their biological sex in relation to their body and physical attributes.
          [–]NiekischAUS 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
          This is really concerning to me. I've read a number of despairing blog posts & articles by parents trying to deal with the fact that their child, who seemed perfectly normal and comfortable in their skin before, suddenly at the age of 10 or 13 begins insisting they're the opposite gender. The parent is torn because there's so much conflicting information out there on this, and no matter what decision they make they'll feel like they're failing their children. I feel terribly for them, I wouldn't know how to act in that situation either- but I do know I'd be very wary of pumping my small child full of hormones, when they're not even mature enough to make responsible decisions regarding something as basic as their diet or clothing regimen or whatever.
          [–]no_coatsSC -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
          I don't know how far debating will get us. I honestly think these people need to be locked up in maximum security prisons.
          [–]IncendiaryAmmoOR 16 points17 points18 points  (20 children)
          I'm curious if people in this sub consider homosexuality a mental disorder? It was previously classified as one in much the same way transgenderism is. I am gay myself but by all measures I can see how it could be considered one.
          [–]tholinssTX 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
          It's certainly an abnormality, in that it is outside the norm. However, it doesn't make people dysfunctional or unable to cope with daily life, as most clinical mental illnesses do.
          I do know a few people whose sexual dysfunction expresses as homosexuality, and they probably could have benefitted from counseling at some point, but I seriously doubt that's representative of the gay community. IE, some homosexuality is naturally occurring, some is the result of abuse and/or trauma, and hell, some people engage it same-sex sex for kicks but wouldn't consider themselves homosexual.
          Human sexuality is complicated.
          [–]The_DonaldUser 11 points12 points13 points  (2 children)
          Nothing wrong with being a trans. I am fine with people being trans. If trans want to mutilate themselves. Okay. Fine. That's their choice.
          What I have a problem with is parents mutilating their children.
          [–]bludgeonerVNZL 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
          Gender reassignment surgery should be definitively R18, so should hormone therapy for that matter, but if your kid thinks they're trans and want to dress/look the part then there aint nothing wrong with that. People need to do whatever makes them happy and for some dudes that involves wearing a dress and calling themselves sally.
          [–]CollateralNerdageWI 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
          Most countries' health services say that while you can go on hormone blockers while you're in therapy at a younger age like 11 or 12, you can't start hormone replacement therapy until you're older. Earliest I've ever heard was 14- most are closer to 16 or even 17/18. When you reach the age of majority you can make the decision for yourself, and it's nearly impossible to get surgery until you're the age of majority and signing off for yourself.
          One good thing, though, is that decent mental health professionals can tell the difference between when a kid is actually trans and when their parents are trying to make them be something they never wanted to be.
          [–]Bears_Bearing_ArmsMA 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
          It is a disorder of some kind. Like a bird that flies North instead of South for winter.
          There's obviously something wrong.
          That being said, there's no real harm in it. It's not like depression or schizophrenia where the individual's quality of life is significantly impacted.
          You don't go about treating something that's otherwise benign.
          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
          Actually no it is not a disorder.
          a disorder is defined as being distressing among other criterion. There is literally nothing distressing about being gay, therefore it is not a disorder.
          [–]silverpanther17PA 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
          I have to say, with the wave of acceptance it's seen, I'm relatively on the fence about it. This is mostly due to my own religious beliefs, but I feel like we are faced with two options: 1) decide as a society that homosexuality is outside the norm as a medical disorder, by extent that we should work to fix such disorders, invest substantial amounts of money on medical research in this field, only to find that the ones who would be receiving such treatment might not even be willing to do so (First do no harm etc etc), or 2) decide as a society that homosexuality is within the norm and leave it as that. For the most part, free will, in my mind, trumps all other argument put forth.
          [–]MidaechUSA 6 points7 points8 points  (3 children)
          I think it doesn't matter what it is. Since being gay doesn't result in you mutilating your body, who cares? Be happy and have fun. If it is a mental disorder it's a harmless one.
          Most things are a mental disorder of one kind or another. It's only when they hurt you or others we have to worry about them.
          [–]bludgeonerVNZL 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
          Being trans doesn't necessarily either mate, what percent of trans people actually go through reassignment surgery? It's pretty small. For most of them it seems to be more of an identity issue than a physiological one, so as long as they feel like the gender they want to be having different genitals often isn't the be all and end all.
          [–][deleted]  (1 child)
          [deleted]
            [–]frostiituteSWE 1 point2 points3 points  (4 children)
            Gay and transgender are two completely different things.
            Being gay doesn't cause inherent mental health issues, that's from societal pressures.
            “
            A mental disorder, also called a mental illness, is a diagnosis of a behavioral or mental pattern that causes either suffering or a poor ability to function in ordinary life.
            [–]treefinger1235 -1 points0 points1 point  (3 children)
            Neither does being trans
            [–]frostiituteSWE 15 points16 points17 points  (2 children)
            Guess they don't need to transition then, since it doesn't cause suffering. Good to know!
            [–]treefinger1235 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
            You are correct. I appologize I misread your post.
            [–]simpleclear 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
            I think the DSM is currently sort of silly. It needs to distinguish between Darwinian disorders and therapeutic questions. Being gay is obviously a Darwinian disorder; terrible for selective fitness no matter how you shuffle the numbers around, very low identical twin concordance. Conversely, being a sociopath is not an obvious Darwinian disorder, anymore than it's a Darwinian disorder when male chimps kill baby chimps to make their mothers go into estrus. But it might be nice to know a way to keep sociopaths from hurting other people by pumping them full of drugs, whereas the argument isn't nearly so strong for homosexuality.
            In other words, in a biological sense there is nothing wrong with a sociopath, but we still might want to "treat" his condition (i.e. control his behavior), whereas in a biological sense there is something wrong with a homosexual, but that doesn't mean the condition needs to be treated.
            [–]joonyaNH -2 points-1 points0 points  (1 child)
            I don't think it's a mental disorder, I just think it's different from being gay because there is that whole body dysmorphia element to it.
            Suicide rates for post op patients is through the roof and there are many surgeons who refuse to do the surgery because of the mortality rates and the amount of people who get it and then realize they'd made a mistake. It's a big leap for people and I think we should think twice before encouraging it especially in the younger population.
            [–]bludgeonerVNZL 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
            Body dysmorphia is a mental disorder though, so if it's a part of trans (like a really fucking big part) then the whole thing is necessarily a disorder too.
            Calling something a mental disorder shouldn't be seen as disparaging or insulting, it's just realism. If you're trans yes, you have a mental disorder, and if the best way to overcome the psychological torment it causes you is to transition then so be it, not my body not my problem. you do you.
            [–]eTr0nicNC 30 points31 points32 points  (24 children)
            The moment you suggest we research treating it as a mental disorder and look for ways to correct the brain with the body instead of the other way around, you're "uncaring" "transphobic" etc... It's the one mental disorder we're supposed to pamper and coddle. Mark my words, after the trans movement the pedophiles are next.
            [–]uncannylizardCA 31 points32 points33 points  (4 children)
            Right now the problem is that we don't treat pedophilia as a mental disorder. We treat it as a moral failing, as if any one of us would commit pedophilia of we were immoral. It's dumb. Pedophiles need medical and psychiatric help, as does anyone else with built-in compulsions to harm others.
            [–]UnbelievableTeknique 20 points21 points22 points  (2 children)
            A lot of paedophiles want to get help but they're unable to for whatever reason. It's not that unheard of for paedophiles to go to their doctor and ask for help.
            No one is condoning paedophilia at all (apart from muslims, sorry, it's in the quran), it's simply that if you make it more acceptable for paedophiles to go to their doctors to get medication that will kill their sex drive dead then you're going to have less child abuse going on. It's pretty simple. When people talk about 'acceptance' of paedophiles, it isn't saying that we should have paedophile pride parades, it's simply accepting that there's a problem and that the best way to deal with it isn't necessarily through criminalisation.
            It really bothers me when people leap to hysteria. Saying that not all paedophiles are criminals or necessarily bad people isn't saying that paedophilia is fine and great.
            [–]IntelWarriorJPN 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
            “
            (apart from muslims, sorry, it's in the quran)
            Don't forget the Catholic church.
            [–]UnbelievableTeknique 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
            Paedophilia in the Catholic Church has nothing to do with the Bible though, it's about corruption.
            The Quran specifically states that the most perfect human being in the world raped a nine year old.
            [–]CollateralNerdageWI 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
            I don't disagree, but they certainly are a high risk to society. There needs to be more studies and research, but for now the current treatment of pedophiles (as in, catch and register) is more than fine in my opinion.
            [–]And_nAL 15 points16 points17 points  (3 children)
            “
            Mark my words, after the trans movement the pedophiles are next.
            We also saw this while fighting the SJWs with #gamergate. They falsely accused us, Voat, and 8chan of pedophilia until one of the SJWs was discovered to be a transgender pedophile. Immediately they shifted into pedophile acceptance and attacked us for "intolerance."
            [–]regollyekCA 11 points12 points13 points  (1 child)
            Oddly enough some of the top-end anti-GGers ended up being pedos.
            [–]simpleclear 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
            Haha, "odd". Why do you think there are people who work tirelessly for the destruction of traditional morality? You didn't think they were all bamboozled or on someone's payroll, did you?
            [–]no_coatsSC 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
            This is why it's imperative we treat regressives with extreme prejudice. You can't trust these people, they're sick in the head.
            They're going to destroy this country if we give them any kind of opening.
            [–]LIPCSB__ 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
            Slippery Slopes don't real! /s
            [–]no_coatsSC 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
            yuck, liberals are fucking gross. the only thing they'll be taking by force is whatever happens in prison.
            [–]mlacuna96 7 points8 points9 points  (2 children)
            I literally know no liberal who thinks that, thats some weird crazy person.
            [–]no_coatsSC -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
            It's unfortunate you don't literally know everyone then, right? What makes you and your opinion the final authority?
            [–]mlacuna96 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
            You are the one who made the broad statement that all liberals think that so why aren't you asking yourself the same question?
            [–]RAND-PAUL-IN-MY-ANUS -12 points-11 points-10 points  (6 children)
            There are ways to treat it....you give them hormones and let them switch genders. Look how well treating homosexuals as a mental disorder turned out. Turns out you can't cure the gay and it made a ton of people suffer. Maybe people (and rightfully so) aren't going to make the same ridiculous mistake we made with gay people.
            Seriously if someone wants to lop off their dick why do you even care?
            [–]Zirus_ZeroFL 7 points8 points9 points  (3 children)
            Homosexuality wasn't even declassified out of legitimacy, but because they terrorized the APA back in 1973. Also, many people who take gender reassignment surgeries still don't feel satisfaction afterwards. http://www.ldolphin.org/lesbian.html
            [–]RAND-PAUL-IN-MY-ANUS -2 points-1 points0 points  (2 children)
            So what are you saying, we should still send gays off to camps to "heal" them?
            [–]regollyekCA 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
            Being straight or gay deals with your sexual attraction. Gender reassignment isn't remotely in the same category.
            [–]Zirus_ZeroFL 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
            What I just shared does not infer such, you just merely made an assumption. Overall, it should simply be viewed as morally wrong and socially unsanctioned as a result of the consequences of such a lifestyle. Consider it a bad lifestyle choice as being a chronic Alcoholic or someone who smokes a bunch of cigarettes per day. They should seek proper guidance away from it instead by someone who is willing to counsel them.
            [–]CodeMonkey1LA 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
            If a family member or friend had a compulsion to cut off their left hand, I would want to be able to obtain mental help without being called an insensitive bigot (and more importantly, I would want scientists and doctors to be able to research the condition without fierce resistance).
            [–]CollateralNerdageWI -3 points-2 points-1 points  (1 child)
            “
            Mark my words, after the trans movement the pedophiles are next.
            Okay, no. That's actually a really messed up analogy and that's pretty damn hateful too.
            Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder that does NO harm to the general population- a person who is trans chooses to transition to look and identify as the opposite gender to help keep the dysphoria at bay and function as a normal person. To accept a person for what gender they identify is to help them stop the illness in its tracks, and causes no harm to anyone.
            Pedophilia is a mental disorder that does a LOT of harm and risks the safety of children. (Also, it's based on sexual desires, not on gender identification, so that's another major difference between the two.) There is no cure. There is no way to "treat" pedophilia. Should there be? Yes. But there isn't, so for now we need to deal with that in the best way we know how. Recognizing and accepting pedophilia is not an option under any circumstances due to the harm it would cause.
            The two things are very different. Equating trans people with pedophiles is pretty damn fucked up. In fact, it's the same equation people used to make between pedos and gay people (and still do).
            [–]eTr0nicNC 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
            I didn't equate trans people with pedophiles, only that the ridiculousness of societal issues will shift as time goes on.
            Ten years ago: "Equating gay people with gender mutilation is pretty damn fucked up."
            Thirty years from now: "Equating pedophiles with _______ is pretty damn fucked up."
            [–]AggiePetroleumTX 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
            Nor do you let someone with anorexia actually believe they are over weight when they are emaciated.
            [–]berzakaaaCAN 2 points3 points4 points  (8 children)
            Mental illness or not, if dressing as a woman makes a dude fill better in his life instead of some expansive medication, that's his business and good for him.
            But the whole "gender is a social construct" bullshit get on my nerves. I mean, in our humanities department they have those fucking posters with slogans like "gender assigned at birth". Why cater to less than 0.001% of the population? I'm not sure most trans want to be treated as special drama victims with the people they interact with.
            [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points  (7 children)
            “
            gender is a social construct
            Why does that get on your nerves...
            I think it's more like you don't know the difference between gender and biological sex. It's a pretty easy distinction to make. Gender, by definition, is a social construct. Gender is assigned at birth by doctors based on genitalia. That's the injustice that is happening... People are assigned a social construct and told to behave that way the second they are born.
            [–]berzakaaaCAN 0 points1 point2 points  (6 children)
            “
            Gender, by definition, is a social construct.
            So are seasons, wind and rivers. It doesn't mean they have no basis in reality.
            “
            Gender is assigned at birth by doctors based on genitalia. That's the injustice that is happening...
            No that's reality that's happening. The sexual dichotomy is a biological truth, like it or not, and it goes way beyond genitals.
            “
            People are assigned a social construct and told to behave that way the second they are born.
            Girls and boys will have different behaviors at a very early age, before they can even talk.
            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
            “
            So are seasons, wind and rivers. It doesn't mean they have no basis in reality.
            That doesn't even refute my point at all... You're confusing gender with biological sex. Simple as that.
            “
            No that's reality that's happening. The sexual dichotomy is a biological truth, like it or not, and it goes way beyond genitals.
            Actually no... there is no biological dichotomy. By saying that you are dismissing millions of people who are intersex: https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001669.htm
            “
            girls and boys will have different behaviors at a very early age, before they can even talk.
            What sort of behaviors are you referring to here?
            [–]berzakaaaCAN 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
            “
            That doesn't even refute my point at all... You're confusing gender with biological sex. Simple as that.
            I'm not saying it's false, I'm saying it's irrelevant.
            “
            Actually no... there is no biological dichotomy. By saying that you are dismissing millions of people who are intersex:
            And there are billions who are not. Even if it is not absolute, it still is a very strong division.
            “
            What sort of behaviors are you referring to here?
            You never been around young children haven't you? Boys will prefer trucks and blocks over dolls, they will externalize more their emotions, boys will fight-play with each other wile girls will play will just have fun with each other. Those are the most noticeable I saw.
            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
            “
            I'm saying it's irrelevant.
            But you're not even attempting to prove this to me at all. All you gave me was a weird analogy. That's not how rhetoric works man.
            “
            And there are billions who are not. Even if it is not absolute, it still is a very strong division.
            Then it's not a dichotomy... Again. Simple as that. Dichotomies are absolute. Even then, you're literally dismissing the entire biological structure of millions of people for no real logical reason. Their platform to exist does not infringe on yours at all. So I'll ask, what is wrong in addressing their existence as people?
            “
            You never been around young children haven't you? Boys will prefer trucks and blocks over dolls, they will externalize more their emotions, boys will fight-play with each other wile girls will play will just have fun with each other. Those are the most noticeable I saw.
            The behaviors of kids are correlated to their social norms and cultural surroundings, which includes gender as one of these social norms. Kids in other parts of the world won't be as heavily divided in terms of playing with trucks verses dolls as you make it seem so no these behaviors are not biological at all.
            In fact kids aren't even aware of gender until year 2-3, signifying that gender is, again, not a biological attribute.
            In even crazier news, doctors will tell you that kids should play with toys that are associated with both genders.
            [–]berzakaaaCAN 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
            “
            But you're not even attempting to prove this to me at all. All you gave me was a weird analogy. That's not how rhetoric works man.
            The definition of gender: the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones)
            And the analogy is simple to understand, even if something is not tangible (wind is the movement of air, a river is moving water, seasons are a pattern), it doesn't mean it has no basis in reality. Genders are caused by genitals and other fundamental biological differences.
            “
            Then it's not a dichotomy... Again. Simple as that. Dichotomies are absolute.
            Tell me where you've seen a definition where a dichotomy must be absolute? A dichotomy can mean a strong contrast or separation, which is the case here.
            “
            Even then, you're literally dismissing the entire biological structure of millions of people for no real logical reason. Like I said, even if a few have genital malformations, a strong, easily identifiable division exists.
            Their platform to exist does not infringe on yours at all.So I'll ask, what is wrong in addressing their existence as people?
            You're making a strawman. I've never said that. I'm pretty sure I said it's fine they live as they do in the first sentence of my first post, which was in fact defending their right to exist by replying to a guy having a very negative opinion of it.
            “
            The article says (because I actually bothered to read more than the abstract) that children begin to follow and enforce social norms beginning at 3 years old. Ok so what? It makes no mention of genders, by the way. Even more here's this quote:
            “
            So it is possible that children are not really enforcing social norms after all but only mimicking their parents—but that merely pushes the question back to why the parents are enforcing them in the first place. Imitation has to stop somewhere, so it does not help us with the question of origins
            Even so, the article focuses on children aged 3 and higher, I was talking about children even younger, where a difference is clearly observable.
            “
            The behaviors of kids are correlated to their social norms and cultural surroundings
            Not all behaviors are caused by social norms.
            “
            which includes gender as one of these social norms
            That's your point, not an argument. Besides this wasn't even in the article you cited.
            “
            Kids in other parts of the world won't be as heavily divided in terms of playing with trucks verses dolls as you make it seem so no these behaviors are not biological at all.
            Can you back that up? I'm pretty much sure Western societies are now the less sexually segregated, so I wonder where you took that affirmation.
            “
            In fact kids aren't even aware of gender until year 2-3
            Kids are not aware of much until 2-3 years old. Nevertheless, the vast majority of them will behave differently according to their sex.
            “
            signifying that gender is, again, not a biological attribute.
            That's a non sequitur.
            “
            In even crazier news, doctors will tell you that kids should play with toys that are associated with both genders.
            First both articles begin with children not conforming to their gender. Sure it happens I'm not denying it, but it's the minority and will not necessarily translate in adult life. Then they pretty much advocate to leave them with a wide choice of toys and let them play and explore as much as they want (as opposed to repression). Which is fine and healthy, but don't prove your point.
            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
            “
            typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones
            You just contradicted yourself...
            “
            Genders are caused by genitals and other fundamental biological differences.
            so pick one.
            Either you actually think people should behave according to their genitals (if so, there's really nothing I can do to change your mind on that, other than to tell you that I personally do not behave according to what society deems is right in relation to my genitals nor do my friends) or you're still not understanding that gender and biological sex are two entirely different things. People with a vagina can identify as part of the male gender. Can they identify as having a penis? No. Having a body part isn't part of your social identity. Can they identify as being masculine, which are attributes that people can have regardless of their genitalia? Yes. So they can identify as part of the male gender.
            “
            I was talking about children even younger, where a difference is clearly observable.
            All you're telling me is that these behavioral patterns are observable but you're insinuating that they are biological so do you have a source for that? I agree that they are observable. I just think social norms and what parents do is why they play with certain toys. Like in the source that talks about imitating parents. They are being primed to do so. Even if what you're saying is true, it doesn't really have anything to do with gender since, again, using toys that are associated with both genders is encouraged more than using toys associated with the one gender.
            “
            Not all behaviors are caused by social norms
            Well then the burden of proof is on you to show me that these observable behaviors that you are referencing are biological rather than as a result of social priming.
            “
            Can you back that up? I'm pretty much sure Western societies are now the less sexually segregated, so I wonder where you took that affirmation.
            I didn't specifically mention the Western world but what I am saying is that this isn't really a rule considering there are male children who play with dolls and female children who play and that this is, by the word of many doctors, of which i linked to some, completely normal. So... let's say this is a biological cause just for the sake of this argument... Well it's not even actually beneficial to children to do this so I feel like that should say something about the importance of certain evolutionary attributes. Men also generally grow more hair than women. Women generally detect colors better than men. Was this useful? Yes. Is it now? Nope.
            “
            Sure it happens I'm not denying it, but it's the minority and will not necessarily translate in adult life.
            Almost every single one of my friends doesn't identify as cisgender. There is a large trans community in every major city, including mine. Btw trans does not only mean people who want to transition between biological sexes. It also includes gender nonconforming and non-binary people.
            [–]berzakaaaCAN 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
            “
            You just contradicted yourself...
            no the key word here is "usually". Not always.
            “
            Either you actually think people should behave according to their genitals (if so, there's really nothing I can do to change your mind on that, other than to tell you that I personally do not behave according to what society deems is right in relation to my genitals nor do my friends) or you're still not understanding that gender and biological sex are two entirely different things. People with a vagina can identify as part of the male gender. Can they identify as having a penis? No. Having a body part isn't part of your social identity. Can they identify as being masculine, which are attributes that people can have regardless of their genitalia? Yes. So they can identify as part of the male gender.
            I didn't mean either of those things. I don't think they should, I'm saying most do without any problems. Sure some men and women have problems with their psyche, or are have some genital anomalies, but they're exceptions and doesn't invalidate that sex has a very strong influence on gender to the point, for all practical purposes, for 99.99% of the time, it's simply not an issue.
            “
            All you're telling me is that these behavioral patterns are observable but you're insinuating that they are biological so do you have a source for that?
            Most of the first links are things like assertiveness, cognitive skills, motor skills, aggression, etc. Those can't be learned.
            “
            I agree that they are observable. I just think social norms and what parents do is why they play with certain toys.
            I doubt a 2 years old listens to "social norms" nor does his father plays truck often.
            “
            Like in the source that talks about imitating parents.
            The source only hypothesizes about imitating parents, but then goes on to say that this theory has its limit.
            “
            They are being primed to do so. Even if what you're saying is true, it doesn't really have anything to do with gender since, again, using toys that are associated with both genders is encouraged more than using toys associated with the one gender.
            How the hell do you prime a baby to play with a toy?? The first 12 months it's pretty much the same toys. Then you see that they have preferences for certain things (like toys that count stories versus the forms which must be placed at the right place) and then parents buy accordingly. Forcing the gender fluidity thing on all children is just wrong. Hell on a website about hermaphrodite children they recommend to stick to one gender. Confusion and ambiguity are bad for children development.
            “
            Well then the burden of proof is on you to show me that these observable behaviors that you are referencing are biological rather than as a result of social priming.
            Like I said, motor skills, anger, cognitive skills and social skills are not things which can be imitated, especially at such a young age. Even the article you cited mentions it imitating and enforcing begins at 3 years old, not before.
            “
            I didn't specifically mention the Western world but what I am saying is that this isn't really a rule considering there are male children who play with dolls and female children who play and that this is, by the word of many doctors, of which i linked to some, completely normal.
            Some, most don't. But for the most part the "traditional" genders model is spot on and works well. And no they are not "normal" (as in they are not like everyone else, with the same needs and particularities), but they are not incorrect either.
            “
            So... let's say this is a biological cause just for the sake of this argument... Well it's not even actually beneficial to children to do this so I feel like that should say something about the importance of certain evolutionary attributes. Men also generally grow more hair than women. Women generally detect colors better than men. Was this useful? Yes. Is it now? Nope.
            Any people involved with children should have great interest in knowing their particularities. And unlike hairs and colors, behaviors are very important to take into account.
            “
            Almost every single one of my friends doesn't identify as cisgender.
            You know what is the best way to know if someone is trans and disguised? He tells everyone about it. But more seriously, cisgenders simply don't "identify" themselves as cisgender, there is no need. Trans do, but please don't push the concept of gender fluidity as if it should be everyone's concern.
            “
            There is a large trans community in every major city, including mine.
            Good for you guys, but your point is?
            “
            Btw trans does not only mean people who want to transition between biological sexes. It also includes gender nonconforming and non-binary people.
            Yeah sure, whatever.
            [–]sexy_bethanyMAGA 31 points32 points33 points  (12 children)
            Trans person here, that's misleading.
            Conversion therapy has been tried and tried over the last 50 years.
            Guess what?
            It doesn't work
            Transition is the best treatment for trans people that there is. If there's anything that works better, let me know.
            [–]lordx3n0saeon 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
            I'm curious what will happen when the issues in the womb that cause homosexual/transexual outcomes get fixed.
            Like, what if we could make sure those problems never happened?
            How would those communities respond?
            [–]sexy_bethanyMAGA 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
            I would think most LGBT people would be sort of happy? It wouldn't change much in the already existing LGBT community (since it wouldn't be retroactive).
            TLDR: I have no idea how the communities would respond
            [–]SOSBTKIL 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
            Just curious but has there been any large scale and reliable research on conversion therapy done in a positive environment and possibly with the additional use of medication? I ask this because I think that many of the conversion treatments come from a perspective of transphobia rather than one of wanting to help someone.
            [–]simpleclear -5 points-4 points-3 points  (0 children)
            But that's not true. I don't have the numbers at my fingertips, but in longitudinal studies of minors who expressed doubts or confusion about gender identity, the overwhelming majority lost those feelings within a short period (either 18 or 24 months, can't recall) with no attention to their gender issues and all treatment focusing on underlying anxiety and other mood disorders.
            Conversion therapy only doesn't work for the people for whom it doesn't work. It's a circular argument. The people for whom ignoring gender confusion and focusing on anxiety/etc. does work are simply drummed out of the transgender category after they recover. The problem is that if you intensify the gender-focus of the anxiety by encouraging the patient to see it as the main problem, then a huge number of people who would have otherwise recovered spontaneously may now be locked into the terrible outcomes (psych and otherwise) of trans people for life.
            (In other words, in order to get a slight, and possibly not even statistically significant improvement in the very bad outcomes for the people who never recover, you are hugely increasing the number of people who never recover.)
            It's a live area of research, or would be if it hadn't suddenly got the hate-think treatment. No need to sling around bolded generalities.
            [–][deleted]  (5 children)
            [deleted]
              [–]izza123CAN -3 points-2 points-1 points  (1 child)
              Transition isn't a treatment it's an indulgence.
              [–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
              What? It's literally proven to be successful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_therapy#Effectiveness
              [–]mhc-askCA 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
              Here's the deal. Transgenders have a much, much higher suicide rate than the average population. This article says 40%. I'm sure you can find others articles with high numbers as well. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/16/transgender-individuals-face-high-rates--suicide-attempts/31626633/
              Whether you believe or not that gender dysphoria is a real thing, it doesn't change the fact that these people are killing themselves at an alarming rate. You bet your ass that the medical field is taking this very seriously. I'm all for playing along if it lowers their suicide rate.
              If you find a better way to reduce their suicide rates, write a paper about it and it will immediately get implemented into the DSM.
              [–]Msj2705 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
              Well there's still a pretty strong difference in the effect of each:
              Letting people wear whatever they want and call themselves whatever they want is pretty harmless.
              Telling people to listen to the potentially violent voices is potentially deadly.
              [–]SecretiveNarwhals 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
              What would you do, sentence them to live in a body they hate just because you don't think it's right?A lot of people's lives are improved by transition and they become much happier people. If people are happy being transgender, who are you to say they are wrong a need to be fixed?
              [–]animal_backwardsTX 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
              No, get help for their depression and unhappiness with their body. Like people with BDD.
              And a lot of people are not happy being trans
              [–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
              The majority transitions are successful in treating body dysmorphia
              [–]treefinger1235 3 points4 points5 points  (6 children)
              Except the DSM, which defines mental illnesses, declassified being transgender as a mental illness (for the following reasons: http://www.dsm5.org/documents/gender%20dysphoria%20fact%20sheet.pdf).
              [–]Vercingetorixxx 1 point2 points3 points  (5 children)
              Changes to the DSM are subject to changes in public opinion. It's no surprise that as society comes to accept more and more progressive values, the DSM will reflect that. Even doctors don't want to be called bigots. DSM5 is not necessarily any more accurate than it's predecessor DSM4 in this regard.
              [–]treefinger1235 -1 points0 points1 point  (4 children)
              Do you have any evidence to support that claim?
              [–]SOSBTKIL 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
              Different guy but how about how the DSM changes the terms for people with mental disabilities as those terms become slang? Idiot and stupid used to be medical terms referring to specific IQ levels, mentally retarded used to be the medical term as well, and now it's something like I.D.D. because of how 'retard' has a negative cultural connotation.
              [–]treefinger1235 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
              "Gender identity disorder" never became slang and while the wording changed there are still offical terms to describe certain IQ ranges. GID wasn't just changed as a term it got an entirely new classification whereas having a deficient IQ is still considered a disability
              [–]SOSBTKIL 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
              I was giving an example of how the DSM can change based on popular culture. I know it's different from completely eliminating something as a disorder but the same reasoning applies; as something became offensive it was changed.
              [–]returned_from_shadow 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
              This sentiment neglects to account for the physiological basis for transgenderism being caused in part by feminizing contaminants such as Atrazine or BPA.
              [–]Level126CAN 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
              It is a mental disorder, but sometimes the easiest solution is just enabling it. I don't really care if people need to share washrooms because I think any taboo about the human body is stupid.
              [–]bobic4 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
              eventually you won't even care whether you live or die
              [–]Frekavichk -1 points0 points1 point  (5 children)
              “
              Transgenderism is a mental disorder and encouraging it is encouraging mental illness.
              How? The logic just doesn't work out.
              You are curing the 'mental illness' by have an operation done, but before that you live as whatever your brain says you should be and taking hormones.
              Encouraging it would be telling people to repress those feelings, not try to live as their body thinks they are.
              [–]animal_backwardsTX 6 points7 points8 points  (4 children)
              “
              Encouraging it would be telling people to repress those feelings, not try to live as their body thinks they are.
              Well, to me that logic doesn't work. If someone has social anxiety and there are too scared to leave their house, they should just stay home instead of ignoring the negative thoughts and going out anyway?
              If someone has OCD and thinks if they don't do a compulsion their family will die, they should not fight that compulsion and should just do it?
              [–]Frekavichk -1 points0 points1 point  (3 children)
              First of all, those are awful comparisons...
              Secondly, if you have anxiety issues you take medication and work on dealing with that with a therapist.
              Same thing with ocd. You take medication and work through it with a therapist.
              Same with body disorders. You work through it with a therapist, take hormones and other medication, then you do surgery if your physician recommends it.
              [–]animal_backwardsTX 5 points6 points7 points  (2 children)
              taking hormones that alter your body and surgery is a bit different than taking some benzos
              that's like giving someone with OCD a lobotomy
              [–]Frekavichk 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
              “
              taking hormones that alter your body and surgery is a bit different than taking some benzos
              Of course it is, because they are totally different situations.
              You made the shitty comparison, not me.
              [–]CollateralNerdageWI -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
              In many people, gender dysphoria (if left untreated) can be a death sentence. It's not on the same level as OCD, hell it's not even on the same damn planet. It's something that HAS TO be dealt with. Transition is the favored way of treating it, yes, because it works and not much else does. But it's not the only way.
              [–]Jaychillin -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
              So, is being gay considered a disorder too? I'm not trying to trigger anyone, I'm just curious as to why it is/isn't.
              [–]tholinssTX 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
              It was. Gay activists pressured the psychiatric community to declassify it. (That's the cynical answer; whether or not there's legit research on the topic, I don't know. I'm not sure anybody would touch that these days.)
              [–]CollateralNerdageWI -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
              While I'm a Trump supporter I'm also still a big proponent of LGBTQ rights and acceptance, in the way that I don't think they should be treated any differently or discriminated against just because of who they identify as. (I'm not advocating for affirmative action on their part, I'm advocating for gender and sexuality blind treatment. Meaning if you're not a jackass then you shouldn't be treated like you are one."
              I disagree with your stance, it's on a different level than schizophrenia and also differs from other mental disorders in a big way. It's more complicated than what you're simplifying it to be.
              (It's also not an "ism". Transgender is an identification- like calling yourself gay or a dude- not a political/philosophical movement like most other "isms".)
              If you're referring to the mental/brain disorder that is the root of transgender identification, it's called "gender dysphoria" and is a major issue that needs to be treated with mental help. However, the vast majority of mental health professionals, doctors and scientists have found that treating the dysphoria directly solves a majority of the problems and is the easiest way to cause the illness to go almost completely dormant. Sometimes gender dysphoria stems from other mental illnesses. However, it usually is the root cause of a person's poor mental state, not a result.
              Transgender people aren't the problem, the mental disorder called gender dysphoria is. How a person decides to deal with it is their call and their doctor's call, but it's only right to get help for it (if for no other reason than it might save a person's life- people who suffer from untreated dysphoria tend to suffer from extremely high rates of suicide attempts)
              [–]Mr_Barry_Shitpeas -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
              And you do realise the only treatment which has been shown to work is transitioning...?
              [–]Alternativmedia -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
              My good, the eleven of ignorance is staggering but good thing facts can change that. No, sadly it's not a mental issue at all, it's a physical mutation if you'd like. A Trans person does have the same issue as a gay person albeit to a lesser degree, the core problem is that their brains biology doesn't match their bodys. A gay or Trans man have a brain that does look, and act like a woman's and wine versa for a woman. That means no therapy can fix it since it's a biological problem, and unless you swap the brain or change all fatty-tissue the problem will remain. Just Google it and you'll see, it's pretty interesting and makes a lot of sense.
              [–]Bears_Beats_Battle -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
              So I listened to a fascinating presentation by Robert Sapolsky recently. If you don't know who he is, you should give him a Google and listen to some of his content.
              I consider him to be extremely "offensively" accidentally because he gives no fucks about feelings. He simply states what science observes (very rarely including his own opinion). On a side note check out his bit on depression, it is absolutely brilliant.
              Anyway, he recently answered a question on Transgenderism. Essentially he states that psychotherapist and neuroscientists generally agree that it is NOT a mental disorder. Neuro anatomy has determined that the brain actually is the gender of the sex the trans individual says it is. The study suggests that rather than these people thinking they are the wrong gender than they are, they ACTUALLY got the wrong gendered body. So physically they received the wrong body at birth (which is actually fairly common - check out individuals born with separate sets of genitals)
              I'm sure I destroyed the paraphrasing... but what you are saying isn't backed up by science anymore.
              Edit: I do realize this particular opinion isn't offensive and gives some power to the SJWs, but let's keep science on our side guys.
              You can listen to plenty of his other content and see that he states what is observed rather than emotionally favored. He is probably one of the smartest people I've ever come across
              Edit 2: I wish somebody would engage me rather than just down vote
              [–][deleted]  (2 children)
              [deleted]
                [–]FireRiseNC 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
                I wish people were forced to address me as "Master and Commander Operator", but we do not get to force people to address us as our desired titles.
                Gender is biological, not a social construct. And yes I would bang cute traps.
                [–]compliancekid78CA 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
                The gif would be better without the douche bag.
                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                Gender is a social construct. It's literally a made-up construct that humans made. It is not synonymous to biological sex. And even if you are confusing the two and actually talking about biological sex, then why are you ignoring inter-sex people who are neither biologically male or female?
                [–]boomchakaboomNY[S] 37 points38 points39 points  (13 children)
                Bruce Jenner loves Lyin' Ted...
                [–]MilitronNY 23 points24 points25 points  (6 children)
                Not anymore
                [–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points  (5 children)
                ?
                [–]TrumpbackWhaleTX 22 points23 points24 points  (4 children)
                He said Trump would do "more for women" than Hillary Clinton, so I think he/she is on the Trump Train™ now.
                [–]McGoliath 26 points27 points28 points  (3 children)
                DO WE LOVE OUR TRANNES!
                [–]LordCommanderTrumpNJ 10 points11 points12 points  (2 children)

                WE HAVE THE BEST TRANNIES!

                [–]hiphoprisingSC 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)

                OUR TRANNIES HAVE GOLD MEDALS, FOLKS

                [–]RojoEscarlataMEX 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)

                And have won women of the year.

                [–]birdmanmanbirdVA 14 points15 points16 points  (4 children)
                HER NAME IS FUCKING CAITLYN JENNER. SHE IS BEAUTIFUL AND STUNNING.
                [–]sexy_bethanyMAGA 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
                SHE'S A VILE HUMAN BUT SHE'S STILL A WOMAN
                [–]EternallyMiffed 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                STUNNING AND BRAVE
                [–]5andcastle -2 points-1 points0 points  (1 child)

                MAN WOMAN ..? OF THE YEAR!

                [–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)

                ... Fucking white male

                [–]EliteFourScott 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
                Even if you're supportive of transgender people, denying that "penis" has a strong correlation with "man" and vice versa is just moronic.
                [–]tondollari 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
                Yeah, OK. What does this have to do with Trump?
                [–]igottashare 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
                I always saw myself as a rich, tall, muscular, privileged man, but unfortunately grew up poor and became middle class, average height, thin, and ordinary. Something must be done to make me the man I identify with and not the man I am.
                [–][deleted]  (1 child)
                [deleted]
                  [–]WellWhaleWalesUSA 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
                  Bro it's C U R R E N T Y E A R
                  [–]jesuschristthe3rd 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
                  This is such a fucking fringe issue, this is bait from the establishment to keep us busy and not look into the real issues like widespread corruption and fraud, tax evasion, etc... I can assure you that establishment politicians don't give 2 shits about gay marriage, transgenderism or religion, they will just take the position that they believe will net them the most votes.
                  [–]Catch-upAUS 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
                  If I had to give my opinion, I believe transgender-ism is nothing to be embarrassed or trivialised about. I know a few people who believe they were born in the wrong body and want to take action about changing that, which I'm fine with. I only start to have serious doubts when people start identifying as fucking dragons or unicorns or some crazy crap like that.
                  [–]cfishyMAGA 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
                  Yeah I think I'm born in the wrong body and cursed all my life about it. But I don't see how surgeries will change the truth that I'm in the wrong body. This is the card I'm dealt, so I deal with it. This is sort of an old school though.
                  [–]compliancekid78CA 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  This is the hardest I've triggered all week.
                  [–]rattraycPA 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  ... Even if they are puffs."
                  Finished the quote for you.
                  [–]9Kbits1 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
                  You cut out the last part of the quote:
                  “
                  Call me old-fashioned but I tend to think of people with penises as men, unless they have a feminine penis. In that case, they are effectively women, and it is not gay if you have sex with them.
                  [–]rsyay 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
                  Ftm will never know what being a man is
                  [–]RdogMILLIONAIRECT 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
                  Say what you want or down vote this as you want, but the arguments against transgender people are eerily similar to the ones that used to be made against gay people. I think the comparisons are fairly striking. Supplant the arguments made against trans people with the word gay (e.g. Trans people are mentally ill, Trans people have high depression rates, trans people are pedophiles, "You were born a male, so you are a male, just like you were born a male, so you have to like women, trans people need conversion therapy).
                  [–]JJFaFa 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  That's true. The masses who accepted homosexuality as something normal will accept transgenderism as well. It's a matter of time. When transgenderism is commonly accepted, the same could be done with paedophilia, incest, and so on. It doesn't prove that the people who oppose these things were wrong, but rather shows how easy it is to manipulate the public. These arguments are true, homosexuality and transgenderism are indeed mental ilnesses.
                  [–]ToppestOfZozzleNY 7 points8 points9 points  (5 children)
                  If you're born with a fucking DICK, you're a dude.
                  If you're born with a fucking PUSSY, you're a female.
                  End of story. Nothing more to it.
                  [–]hasapointUSA 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
                  I'd say it's in your DNA – XX is bio female, XY is bio male, everything else is an abnormality. Those unfortunate folks who end up with wonky chromosomes deserve our love and support, same as we'd treat sufferers of trisomy (Down Syndrome and its uglier cousins).
                  [–]rabbittexpress 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
                  There IS XXY, the strange condition where people have an extra sex chromosomes and express both male and female parts...but that is a very rare condition and those people would appropriately be able to identify as both....
                  [–]rabbittexpress 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  And if you are born XXY, you start life with both a penis and a vagina.
                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  You need to distinguish between biological sex and gender
                  Also what do you have to say to the inter-sex people who are neither biologically female or male...?
                  [–]le_meme_facesWA 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  What about the hermies?
                  [–]basementdwellingfagNY 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
                  shut it ian you shitlord.
                  [–]AggiePetroleumTX 2 points3 points4 points  (11 children)
                  About Bruce Jenner: While she has undergone some cosmetic surgery, she has neither undergone sex reassignment surgery nor ruled it out; she stated that, for her, life as a woman is primarily a matter of mental state and lifestyle. She said she has never been sexually attracted to men, but has instead always been sexually attracted to women, and that, keeping in mind the difficulty people have understanding the difference betweensexual orientation and gender identity, she will identify as asexual for now.
                  [–]rabbittexpress 11 points12 points13 points  (10 children)
                  ....He...
                  [–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point  (5 children)
                  ...She...
                  Pronouns are based off gender... which is a social construct... which means they are made up... which means she can choose whatever pronouns she wants based on whatever gender she identifies with.
                  [–]rabbittexpress 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
                  No.
                  He has the chromosomes XY.
                  She has the chromosomes XX.
                  There's nothing complicated here.
                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
                  “
                  The English language has gender-specific personal pronouns in the third-person singular
                  You mentioned chromosomes, which has to do with biological sex, not gender. English uses gender-specific pronouns.
                  [–]rabbittexpress 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
                  Look, you can keep pretending all you want, but most of us know exactly what He is and exactly what She is. You're the one who is confused.
                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
                  I literally just proved you wrong and that's your retort? lol
                  [–]rabbittexpress 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  No, you did not prove me wrong, you proved your logic has no basis in reality and I refuse to entertain you any longer.
                  [–]AggiePetroleumTX 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
                  Yup. This is directly off his Wikipedia page. It also says that "She won the men's Olympic gold medal in the decathlon," and that "she was once considered the most athletic person in the world." Lol I just can't make sense of it.
                  [–]rabbittexpress 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
                  Oh, I know...I know, it's so nonsensical...
                  [–]AggiePetroleumTX 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
                  I think that Bruce is just a genius and is making 10s of millions of dollars off of dumb liberals. He's never undergone a sex change, is not attracted to men and has always been attracted to women; he's a registered Republican, and a Christian lol. I'm just waiting for the day that he tells the dumb left that it was all a sham. "Thanks for the $100 million, stupid!"
                  [–]rabbittexpress 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  That will be the day... :P
                  [–]cfishyMAGA 3 points4 points5 points  (2 children)
                  I am a transgernder, but I'm not in this world to educate people. Just leave me alone and believe in whatever the hell you want. I'm not going to force anyone to call me by male pronouns. I don't give a shit what you call me. You can judge my gender by seeing how I act. I'm a liberal but I hate PC with flaming fireballs. I'm not a fucking victim so don't insult me and treat me like some handicapped person. I win people over quickly (out of necessity, of course), although that's a rare skill that most trans people don't have.
                  I do appreciate that I don't have to be so afraid of going to the bathrooms in recent years. It used to be a traumatizing event and I avoid public restrooms at all cost. I had to deal with this for all my life. Now they have gender neutral and family bathrooms, I'm so much happier to not live in this constant danger of people doing crazy shit to me for going to the bathrooms.
                  [–]tenparsecs 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
                  “
                  I win people over quickly (out of necessity, of course), although that's a rare skill that most trans people don't have.
                  It's probably the most important skill to have. I have to say, watching Trump for half a year now, he's really rubbed off on me. I find myself being a lot more confident and go-get-em that before.
                  [–]cfishyMAGA 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  yeah, I come from a generation where kids didn't grow up in bubble wraps. ya gotta come up with something to defend yourself.
                  [–]Dent18IN 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
                  I'm all for gay rights, and am basically libertarian in most cases, but cutting off your genitals, getting surgery, taking pills is just going way too fucking far. That's blatantly unnatural and is violating...something
                  [–]Mleigh18 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  Your feelings
                  [–]RdogMILLIONAIRECT 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
                  I'm sure you were anti-gay 10 years ago when it was popular. Bow you're anti-trans while it's still mostly uncontroversial to do so.
                  [–]Dent18IN 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
                  I was never anti-gay because there's nothing wrong with that
                  [–]mikehartiiMO 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
                  Interesting, I tend to think of penises as a key and vaginas as a keyhole!
                  [–]inchira 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
                  The FBI has shown they can unlock my iPhone -- why can't they unlock my gender?
                  I'm voting for Boyknee so I can achieve my lifelong dream of having a vagina so I can finally fuck myself with a big rabbit vibe! And if you dare to show me proof that transwomen don't have actual clits capable of actually being stimulated to intense orgasm by rabbit dildos and Hitachi Magic Wands -- guess what?
                  I'LL BLOCK YA!!!
                  [–]FreeiheitIN 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
                  I feel bad for people with gender identity disorder, I really do. It must be terrible, and I know their suicide rates are sky high. But I agree with everyone else here, the fix shouldn't be to humor them and play along. We don't do that for any other mental issue; if someone believes they're lincoln we don't put them in the White House. There needs to be more research into the causes behind this and how the brain goes wrong, so we can come up with an actual, scientific cure
                  [–]tenparsecs 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
                  “
                  There needs to be more research into the causes behind this and how the brain goes wrong, so we can come up with an actual, scientific cure
                  Most illnesses, especially mental ones, have no "cures". Like, cancer doesn't have a cure, just various damaging treatments with varying levels of success, does that mean we should have a moratorium on all cancer treatment until we find The One Perfect Cure?
                  Transitioning, which isn't some extreme thing and doesn't necessarily mean surgery, is the only treatment anyone has found that has any chance of success. There's still lots of problems though, especially with self-medding and bad therapists.
                  [–]FreeiheitIN 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
                  Of course not, I'm saying we should acknowledge that the existing treatment leaves a lot to be desired, and continue looking for a better replacement
                  [–]MidaechUSA 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  "Not all have been impressed with his comments"... Especially people who make money off pushing the opposing agenda (.insert activist here)
                  [–]Golden_DawnARMY 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
                  “
                  "There are a lot of women who have a penis. Like me."
                  The, er, "person" on 2x was not joking.
                  Edit: Instant downvote by a "woman with a penis"?
                  [–]sonofmo 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
                  If it's not hurting you or someone else why do you care? Let people be weird.
                  [–]CThaxter 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
                  But here in Washington, it IS hurting women and girls who now have to share all public showers, locker rooms,restrooms, etc with men who feel they are women. Where does Trump stand on this issue?
                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  How is that hurting women and girls by having them share restrooms with them...? Psychological trauma? Come on -_-
                  [–]elguapo23 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
                  No it's just a big clit
                  [–]MilitronNY 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  That you can pee through! That's so cool Sophie!
                  [–]Hyper-IonAeroMD 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  The absolute madman, he actually said it!
                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  Kek. Another liberal who will be sacrificed under the alter of political correctness.
                  [–]foghlaimeoirIL 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
                  I'm gay and i agree trannies are fucking freaks
                  [–]Mleigh18 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
                  Hope you don't have a freak spawn
                  [–]dextoriMA 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  This video sums it up quite well for me.
                  [–]TheAC997 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  I never understood how the transgender movement isn't considered highly sexist. "Hey you guys, the physical differences between men and women are vastly outweighed by the huge mental differences between them!"
                  [–]Risingashes 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  Ultimately if a person wants to get their body cut up to look more like what they want then it's really none of my business.
                  But when body acceptance is considered the position of bigots, then we're gone insane. And when body mutilation is pushed to children those people should be thrown in jail forever.
                  [–]ZaQ_QNY 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  RIP Gandalf
                  [–]MuntbergCAN 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  SEXIST!!!!!! TRANSPHOBIC!!!!! MISOGYNISTIC!!!!!! KILL THE HERETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                  [–]makeswordcloudsagain 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  Here is a word cloud of every comment in this thread, as of this time: http://i.imgur.com/uK2NIxZ.png
                  [–]codecow911CA 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  Doesn't Rammstein have a song about this?
                  [–]amadeus8 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  I love this sub, if you just make the minimal effort to laugh at the memes and continue on down through the comments I swear; The_Donald has some of the most constructive no bullshit discussions ever.
                  [–]TICKLE_MY_RECTUMCAN 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
                  LITERALLY BEYOND TRIGGERED RIGHT NOW
                  [–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
                  A T O W N E D
                  [–]whenipeeithurts 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
                  This is so great. Trump is having an effect already.
                  [–]superdick5NC -4 points-3 points-2 points  (0 children)
                  the whole transgender debate is dumb. I say treat it like tattoos, I don't get sued for firing someone who gets "fuck" written on their fore head and I shouldn't get sued for firing a waiter that starts to look like they are somewhere between man and women.
                  [–]maga_hide_pussy -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
                  "Call me old-fashioned but I want my men to be hard!"
                  [–]Ov3r_Kill_Br0nyUSA -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
                  I hope that people realize that sex and gender are two different concepts and are exclusive of each other.
                  [–]kushinboots -4 points-3 points-2 points  (0 children)
                  Just as bad as saying
                  "Call me old fashioned but I tend to think of people with penises as straight"
                  [–]JoeReaperCA -7 points-6 points-5 points  (0 children)
                  I'm voting for Trump like everyone else on this sub- my girlfriend is trans and super hot. NOBODY on here would see her and call her a "man".
                  [–]green71 -4 points-3 points-2 points  (0 children)
                  anything is better than being a Clopsexual.
                  [–]byerdbotCAN -3 points-2 points-1 points  (0 children)
                  And they call us uneducated.
                  EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE
                  [–]ButthurtSJWBelow -5 points-4 points-3 points  (0 children)
                  Rekt.
                  [–]tenparsecs -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
                  I'm very pro-trans and think it's totally fine for them to do whatever, as long as children under 18 don't undergo major procedures or major hormonal treatment (as in not just AA's) before 18. That's how it already is for the most part though.
                  I hope Trump doesn't go into this quagmire. He has a lot of trans and general LGBT support.
                  [–]Jettie12 -8 points-7 points-6 points  (0 children)
                  If the transgendered person is near woman in looks, she deserves the pronoun I think.
                  I wish they were accepted culturally, in that way we could make the honest expectation of them that they BE ladies in looks and behavior 100%. Not these ugly fat crossdressers. That shouldn't fly.
                  [–]Bears_Beats_Battle -3 points-2 points-1 points  (0 children)
                  So I listened to a fascinating presentation by Robert Sapolsky recently. If you don't know who he is, you should give him a Google and listen to some of his content.
                  I consider him to be extremely "offensively" accidentally because he gives no fucks about feelings. He simply states what science observes (very rarely including his own opinion). On a side note check out his bit on depression, it is absolutely brilliant.
                  Anyway, he recently answered a question on Transgenderism. Essentially he states that psychotherapist and neuroscientists generally agree that it is NOT a mental disorder. Neuro anatomy has determined that the brain actually is the gender of the sex the trans individual says it is. The study suggests that rather than these people thinking they are the wrong gender than they are, they ACTUALLY got the wrong gendered body. So physically they received the wrong body at birth (which is actually fairly common - check out individuals born with separate sets of genitals)
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