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Sabaton - Winged Hussars (teaser) (youtube.com)

hyperchriszcaptain yarrface of hufflepuff が 投稿

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[–]hyperchriszcaptain yarrface of hufflepuff[S] 18ポイント19ポイント  (39子コメント)

oh my god it's exactly the same as the other song

[–]qwertzinator 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Which one?"

"Yes."

[–]fuzzynyanko 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Damn. It's one thing to have that between different albums, but this is getting bad.

I don't mind songs being similar. I have a pretty high tolerance for it. Hearing two songs sound that similar about different subjects on the same album just throws me off. I thought Metallica's Unforgiven songs were bad

In the case of a band that makes albums that are stories, Fairyland for example, it even can work well. In fact, Score to a New Beginning's first two tracks were "previously on The Fall of an Empire (Slaves Forlorn and Across the Endless Sea)"

Primal Fear? Iron Savior? At least they sound similarly, but I just went through their 2011 album and then their 2016 album. The sound is similar, but it's different enough. At least make it hard for me to tell, dammit!

[–]DMRage 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did you know this thread was going to blow up when you posted it or did you realize it afterward?

[–]jgtengineer68 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (34子コメント)

lol, Sabaton sounds like Sabaton. Its almost as crazy as saying Alestorm sounds like Alestorm, or Nightwish sounds like Nightwish.

[–]EdledhronThe Echo of Your Lamentations 14ポイント15ポイント  (16子コメント)

I can't imagine you've ever listened to a Nightwish album if you think they're anywhere close to being Sabaton levels of repetitive.

[–]jgtengineer68 1ポイント2ポイント  (14子コメント)

oh really, Saw the same complaints about TGSOE people make about sabaton all over reddit. " This is just a collection of all the better riffs of Once!" " Yours is an empty hope = slaying the dreamer" etc. " Shudder before the beautiful = dark chest of wonders 2.0"

It basicaly boils down to toumas has a very recognizable style of using the guitar as a percussive instrument ( since Century Child). You can tell a nightwish song at a glance.

[–]DMRage 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

You can tell a nightwish song at a glance.

You can. Nightwish's tracks are very distinct.

Saw the same complaints about TGSOE people make about sabaton all over reddit.

Where? I've never heard people claim that Nightwish suffers from Sabaton syndrome. Every band has their faults, Nightwish included, but constant recycling of old riffs and choruses is not one of them.

[–]jgtengineer68 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

You weren't on /r/SymphonicMetal then when the album dropped. It was constant " this is just this song" and DAE else this song is this song and that song together. Imaginarium was unique but even it had a few " classic toumas" songs on it. The difference is and i think its a big one. Sabaton songs tend to be simple, designed around recognizable structure and march feels. Toumas's go to turnarounds and such are more technical so the layman doesn't hear them.

I mean shit you can even hear this in genre's outside powermetal. Dave Mustaine is notorious at riff revisit but it doesn't make Endgame any less listenable because of it.

lol don't even have to go that far back

https://www.reddit.com/r/symphonicmetal/comments/4madcc/nightwish_yours_is_an_empty_hope/

[–]DMRage 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

You weren't on /r/SymphonicMetal

Correct, I'm never on it and we aren't in that community now. So let's drop people being silly in that other community and talk about Sabaton being silly in this community, alright?

The difference is and i think its a big one. Sabaton songs tend to be simple, designed around recognizable structure and march feels. Toumas's go to turnarounds and such are more technical so the layman doesn't hear them.

Tuomas favors a few motifs that you can hear from album to album but I'd say they vary far more than Sabaton. Sticking to Sabaton however, they literally recycle the same chord progressions, the same melodies and many things. /u/hyperchrisz created this to demonstrate: http://www.gloryhammer.com/sabaton_greatesthits.mp3

I'm not saying Sabaton is an awful band, so you know. I'm stating specifically, that they recycle too much of their own content. It's pretty sad, because I think they've got potential but they've hit their plateau and it seems they aren't doing anything to move beyond it.

[–]jgtengineer68 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

I am not arguing that they don't do that either. But one of the things about them is that they sound consistent. It is what sabaton sounds like. And to be honest there is only so much shit you can do with a D5 power chord as your root and stay in metal.

I mean sometimes its like you guys expect every album by every artist to break the mold and be something brand new. Maybe you should view sabaton like a power metal version of a folk story band. The music may sound similar but the lyrics change to tell new stories.

BTW " the same chord progressions" doesn't mean much. 99 percent of all metal likely uses some variation of the same chord progressions.

[–]ikazuka123 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

you need to distinguish between signature sounds vs recycle materials. Nightwish and many other bands have a unique sounds to it that you can tell right from the get go. And then we have Sabaton which is basically an old song with new lyrics. I don't even know what's your thought process when you compare Sabaton and Nightwish in term of generic.

[–]jgtengineer68 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm not. I am not even saying that nightwish is generic ( its not) I am saying that people say the same things about every large band out there. Hell even the op has a post where he points out that while sabaton has a signature style it isn't consistent with what most power metal does. By definition that is not "generic".

[–]DMRage 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

99 percent of all metal likely uses some variation of the same chord progressions.

Hyperbole of the year, mate.

Ok, I really think we aren't even on the same page. We don't expect the artist to break the mold and make something brand new. Blind Guardian and Epica seem to be fantastic and not only not repeating themselves but pumping out high quality songs (Blind Guardian may have fallen off on the production quality, but the songs, as written are unique and distinct) without sounding generic.

Twilight Force sounds generic. They're everything you expect from a power metal band.

Sabaton is not generic. They have a very distinct sound, they have a baritone vocalists, many march-style tempos and all around almost invented their own sound of metal. It's great! Then they beat the ever loving shit out of that horse. Night Witches, Primo Victoria, Coat of Arms etc all literally have the same chorus but the melody is different enough to make them sound different.

We're not saying Sabaton is garbagetrash, we're not calling them generic. We're saying they're recycling. Can we just take a step back and examine that? That link I gave you, what did you think of it? This is hardly the only example (Lost Battalion and Hearts of Iron sticks out).

I'm still going to buy a Sabaton concert ticket when they come by, I'm not knocking that. I'm just upset by they keep recycling their stuff.

[–]EdledhronThe Echo of Your Lamentations 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Never said Nightwish didn't have traits running through their albums -- every band does. But Yours is an Empty Hope and Slaying the Dreamer? Shudder Before the Beuatiful and Dark Chest of Wonders? You've just chosen some fairly generic symphonic power metal tracks there, which don't even resemble each other nearly as closely as The Last Stand and Hearts of Iron, or even Far From the Fame and Swedish Pagans.

Then compare the diversity that each band includes within their albums. It's not even close.

[–]jgtengineer68 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not saying its exactly the same as how sabaton does it. My point is its asinine to call a band out for sticking to the style that is making them money, because they sound like themselves.

Hell Amon Amarth gets the same treatment, then they do something they haven't done before ( a concept album with a rooted theme in Jomsviking) and people complain its different.

I wasn't choosing tracks, I was pointing out things that were said about the album. Let me put it another way. "Generic" or not even though its more "generic only when compared to itself" Sabaton stands out from other power metal bands which lets be honest can sometimes all sound like the same band. Writing music in E minor or eflat minor depending on the vocalists range, using simple Chord progressions with 3rd and fifth harmonies.

[–]fuzzynyanko 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not surprised that Tuomas went conservative when they got a new lead singer. He had to figure out how in the hell to best use her voice.

[–]jgtengineer68 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh i don't fault him either, Honestly i think the music fit the message of the songs pretty well.

[–]U-94 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nightwish would be fine if they let Marco sing everything. Please god, Marco. Bring back Tarot.

[–]Swordwraith 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

They may as well have called it the Lost Battalion part two. It's not just "Sabaton sounding like Sabaton", it's Sabaton recycling their songs. Again.

[–]Lip_Recon 0ポイント1ポイント  (15子コメント)

Not really. If you're a somewhat experienced musician, you'd understand. Not trying to be a dick, it's just that it's clear as a day.

[–]jgtengineer68 0ポイント1ポイント  (14子コメント)

Lmao oh i know i know exactly what he's talking about with regards to the sound. So how long have you been making music have anything online to check out?

[–]Lip_Recon 0ポイント1ポイント  (13子コメント)

Making music?..kinda..forever, lol. But actively and professionally for the last 12 something years. Well..can't really reveal too much..but I did this piece a while ago as a small side project.

[–]jgtengineer68 2ポイント3ポイント  (12子コメント)

The point was a lot of people missed the entire point of what I was saying. I've been playing the guitar for close to 20 years. I know the songs are similar when it comes to sabaton, all artists that have been at anything for a long time have to fight self plagiarizing if they remain in the same genre and style.

Some bands change their sound over time to flip genres ( behemoth going from black, to blackened death, to brutal death with a melodic death metal slant and back again) Others flip projects and do it that way ( Emperor vs Isahn solo).

I view Sabaton like you would a tavern bard or bar blues band. The songs may sound similar but each song tells a different story. All of it is about the lyrics. No one faults the blues artist who rarely ventures out of 12 bar blues other than varying the tempo and the lyrics.

That piece is pretty good what did you use to make it?

[–]mushmancat 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I view Sabaton like you would a tavern bard or bar blues band. The songs may sound similar but each song tells a different story. All of it is about the lyrics.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

maybe the greatest post ever posted here

[–]MadTheMadThe Mad 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

"It's about the lyrics". That's a new low even for Sabaton fans

[–]Lip_Recon 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

With your argument in mind, I understand what you're saying, and I can't really argue against it. But somehow..I feel that there is a fundamental difference between for example blues and power metal. Blues is supposed to sound "the same"..because the main purpose of the music once upon a time was the mood it set and the stories told, not really the song structures, melodies or chord progressions. It's supposed to be meditative, just like..idk..persian folk music. Melodic metal (Power, Heavy, etc) on the other hand, has always been driven by melodies and rhythm, and the lyrics and chords have almost always been secondary, and, dare I say, almost redundant. And it seems that a lot of people argues that Sabaton has come to a point where all their melodies, inherently limited by their own very limited chord progressions (how many C-G chord transitions can you fit into a song?), have come to a standstill, where they keep rehashing stuff to the point where everything literally sounds the same. But, as you say..maybe Sabaton specifically, has evolved to be storytellers, and not songwriters. If that is the case, then I rest mine ;)

Thanks! I use a lot of stuff..mainly Vienna Symphonic Library. And a bunch of old GIGA sample libraries.

[–]jgtengineer68 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Cool what vsts are you using to drive those samples, I'm currently working on a project with a friend of mine where we are going through a bunch of metal genres that are tied together only by lyrical themes and i've been trying to find a good setup that i can use with reaper to do orchestra stuff for the couple of symphonic heavy genres.

[–]Lip_Recon 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sounds like a cool project! Vienna Symphonic Library comes with its own vst instrument (so you don't need Native Instruments Kontakt or any other sampler/wrapper), and VSL also comes with a mixing host called Vienna Ensemble, which works like a charm. Check out http://vsl.co.at/en

[–]jgtengineer68 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks i'll check that out.

[–]U-94 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Oh yeah, let's compare heavy metal Sabaton to unlistenable shit like Behemoth.

[–]jgtengineer68 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

lmao missing the point again.

[–]U-94 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

SATAN!!! I SHOULD HAVE DIED OF CANCER!! SATAN!!

[–]jgtengineer68 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

My point was how they changed styles over time not comparing the actual music.