全 89 件のコメント

[–]evil420pimp 374ポイント375ポイント  (7子コメント)

If you feel the officer was not there legitimately, visit your local pd. They'll either confirm he was acting within his duties, or be interested to learn about his abuse of power. You might ask if a legitimate complaint was filed, if so, then you've got your answer.

[–]TheRealJayGarrick 140ポイント141ポイント  (2子コメント)

Do this OP. This sounds so fishy. What reason would a police officer have for saying you cannot "comment" on a post within your own facebook group? Unless there is something OP isn't telling us, this officer was a complete idiot.

[–]Doulich 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Maybe someone alleged OP was doing things he didn't actually do?

[–]TheRealJayGarrick 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

True. OP is also being pretty vague about what exactly happened, and is likewise vague about what the officer said. However, saying you cannot "comment" on something seems like playground talk, and I can't think of a legitimate situation in which a police officer would think they have jurisdiction. If OP was threatening, and the officer said "don't threaten people on facebook," that would definitely be a different situation.

[–]JerryLupus 68ポイント69ポイント  (0子コメント)

This OP. File a written complaint with the department if the visit was not official.

[–]Draqur 55ポイント56ポイント  (1子コメント)

If he was a friend as you think, he may just have been doing her a favor by coming over to scare you. Unless he gave you some actual paperwork.

[–]neurocellulose 40ポイント41ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Jim, can you go over to bitter-grape's house and scare him into letting me into his FB group again? I have NO LIFE AND I'M DYING INSIDE"

[–]bitter-grape[S] 53ポイント54ポイント  (39子コメント)

so, no incident report? nah, wasn't arrested. it was odd that he instructed me to not reply to posts to ppl that I don't know(bassically the whole concept of social media).

[–]tn_notahick 48ポイント49ポイント  (0子コメント)

Never take legal advice from a cop.

[–]ambitious_flosser 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's trying to bully you. He must have a connection to this woman, and I wouldn't sweat it.

Just block that woman, if you haven't done so already.

[–]thepatmanQuality Contributor 14ポイント15ポイント  (36子コメント)

it was odd that he instructed me to not reply to posts to ppl that I don't know

You have someone that finds your actions harassing. The smart move is to stop taking those actions. Especially since the police found enough merit to at least make a visit.

When someone asks you to stop engaging with them, it's generally a smart move to do so. The line between free speech and harassment is based heavily on knowledge. You shouldn't want to engage this woman anymore, as you should not want to risk crossing that line.

[–]McBonderson 27ポイント28ポイント  (28子コメント)

The line between free speech and harassment is based heavily on knowledge.

I'm a little confused by what you mean, can you explain what particular knowledge it is based on?

I don't know if this is the case for OP but if somebody is discussing policy and/or politics for the local community in my area on a public forum(social media) how do they get to claim I'm harassing by engaging in debate with their views. If they don't want to be engaged by those who oppose them then they shouldn't post publicly.

I suppose it would be different If I followed them to every place they post and ridiculed them personally. but I don't know if that is what OP is talking about.

[–]thepatmanQuality Contributor 4ポイント5ポイント  (27子コメント)

I'm a little confused by what you mean, can you explain what particular knowledge it is based on?

The common definition of harassment is someone who undertakes actions with the intent to annoy or harm the other person. It's not merely that it annoys/harms them, it's that you intend it to.

A big piece of proving intent is knowledge, and one can reasonably derive intent from knowledge. OP now knows that his actions annoy or harm her, because he's been explicitly told that. Continuing to engage her would signal an intent to harm and annoy her, as he has no other legitimate purpose to speak to her.

[–]bitter-grape[S] 24ポイント25ポイント  (14子コメント)

who said that I intended to contact her? I was just asking for advice if she filed a bs police report because of this fiasco if I can have it removed because her "friend cop" made a mountain out of an ant hill.

[–]thepatmanQuality Contributor -11ポイント-10ポイント  (13子コメント)

who said that I intended to contact her?

"Intent", here, is "intent to annoy and harm". In short, that you're taking actions that you know pisses her off.

If you keep doing what you've been told to stop doing, it becomes much more likely that your actions will be seen as intentional, and a harassment charge becomes much easier.

[–]spdorsey 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you keep doing what you've been told to stop doing

Where is the line that exists between harassment and standard discourse?

I ask because this conversation took place in an online area that is, by its very definition, a "social media" platform that exists solely for the purpose of information sharing. There's got to be a free speech reference in there somewhere...

At what point does OP's right to free speech in a public forum trump her right not to be offended (which may or may not exist)?

[–]thepatmanQuality Contributor 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

At what point does OP's right to free speech in a public forum trump her right not to be offended

The line is not simple offense. It never has been. This is one of the common misconceptions about harassment.

An action becomes harassing(again, in the general case) when the intent is to annoy or harm. That often means that the action has to be directed at the victim, the subject knows or reasonably should know that the action is annoying or harmful, and he intends for that to be the result. There often has to be a pattern, as well, although that's not true everywhere.

Let's show a more concrete example here. Let's say I am having a discussion on /r/AskReddit about the environment, and I advance some horrible notion, like "All cats should be euthanized". Even if someone takes offense, that's not harassment. There's no intent, as it's not a directed statement, and it's part of a reasonable discussion on the topic. There's also no pattern.

Let's say I take that same statement to that same discussion in /r/catlovers. We're closer now, because the potential for annoyance/harm offense is higher. But still, if it's a reasonable part of a discussion, then intent isn't there.

Now, what if you go into /r/catlovers and randomly post that all cats should be euthanized. Now we're most of the way there. Your post would be very likely to annoy/harm, and it's reasonable to expect that you would know that. You also have no particular purpose to post that, so intent becomes much easier. If you continue posting repeatedly, you'll also establish that pattern we talked about.

Of course, this is just an off-the-cuff example. All of these situations are fact, context and locale-specific.

[–]spdorsey 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very informative, thank you.

(Also, I love your example...)

[–]Snipercam7 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

Surely then, one could theoretically claim "Your discussion of Sanders/Clinton/Trump/Vermin Supreme annoys and harms my mental wellbeing. Stop it." and shut down someone's legitimate claim to free speech? I could understand if he was being told specifically to avoid commenting/engaging this woman, but to be told to not comment on "people he doesn't know" in general?

[–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor[M] 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Do not use that language here. Not only are you wrong about your ability to sue be it your language is completely inappropriate.

    [–]Shadax444 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Ok, been stalking these posts looking for stories, anecdotes, and legalese because any knowledge is better than none, so I must ask. Considering this was a small collective on FB and not the larger, more anonymous collective that any reddit could be, is there a more likely precident of threatening or provoking speech due to a smaller sampling (Noted that OP doesn't give an approximation of his group's size) than for example if I keep posting that someone is an idiot because of their thoughts, well intentioned or not?

    [–]SociallyUnconscious 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Some things you probably want to avoid . . .

    Online threats: - "I know where you live and I have a gun." - "I am going to beat the $#!t out of you."

    Harassment: - "You should kill yourself you are so stupid." - "The world would be a better place without you."

    Stalking: - Responding negatively to every post a person makes. - Continually messaging someone without a response.

    You are generally OK (depending on the rules of the forum) explaining that someone is wrong in their post. However, there is more than one way of saying that. - "That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Are you actually retarded?" - "This advice makes sense in X but not in the current situation because Y."

    If the person is a troll, they just want you to respond. If they are not, then making an effort to be civil may help them see the light. Otherwise, ignoring them is probably the best answer. Spending your life responding to idiotic online comments is not as rewarding as say taking a nap.

    [–]Shadax444 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I tend to do so, but on occasion I like to respond to something and sometimes it gets taken out of context or someone, to quote op, gets 'butthurt' over it. Sometimes its the same person in multiple threads and I like an objective standpoint about me if I come across as just a douche (let's face it, on the internet we all can hit that point easily and I'll openly admit it in hindsight I have) or rightly critcal of someone and it just happens to be the same person. This is a decent standard of measure IMO.

    [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

    In any analysis, context and meaning are important. Someone looking at this incident would necessarily take into account the size of the group, the interactions between the group, the purpose of the group, et cetera.

    A situation with a smaller group makes it more likely that a course of action would be seen as intentional towards a person or group of people. Not a given, but more likely.

    [–]bitter-grape[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    it's a neighbor/community group comprised of over 2.5k members. the boro is less than 2sq miles.

    [–]Shadax444 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Thank you, combined with /u/SociallyUnconcious general metric of 'Avoiding Internet A-Hole Status' measure, I think any rational person could accurately gauge if they were going too far.

    Guess it'd be like if we got 30 politicians in a room and everyone told the EPA guy to shut up because they're minimizing damages best as they know how.

    [–]huadpe 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's worth noting that some courts have interpreted the language "intent to annoy" as overbroad and infringing on the first amendment right to free speech. See, for instance, People v. Golb from the New York Court of Appeals.

    That said, it's not worth it for an individual to be a guinea pig for the first amendment like that. And it's better for having a pleasant life to not be engaging in that sort of thing anyway.

    [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's worth noting that some courts have interpreted the language "intent to annoy" as overbroad and infringing on the first amendment right to free speech.

    Very true. And I'm avoiding(on purpose) trying to delve into NJ's laws to offer an opinion on whether OP is actually meeting that burden. That's both fact and locale specific.

    [–]DiaboliAdvocatus 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

    OP now knows that his actions annoy or harm her

    Her claiming it doesn't mean it meets the legal definition. I've had plenty of idiots on reddit say "stop replying to my posts" when I've replied to two of their posts in the past month.

    In the context of a forum replying to other members posts isn't going to be harassment, no matter how the plaintiff feels, unless the volume of replies is clearly extreme.

    Otherwise plenty of reddit mods would have been sued for harassment.

    [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

    In the context of a forum replying to other members posts isn't going to be harassment

    You need to stop making definitive statements like that. Forum posts can be, and are, charged as harassing in many jurisdictions. This is extremely bad advice, and you will stop giving it.

    You also need to start reading and responding to entire posts. As I said above, and will repeat for your benefit, the fact that activity does annoy or harm is only one piece of the harassment charge(in the general case). The rest involves knowledge and intent.

    A pattern is harassment if/when it is done with the intent to annoy or harm. OP's intent would be in play here. Why is he posting? In what context? In what manner? Do those posts indicate an intent to annoy and harm?

    A series of posts that does cause annoyance or harm, but has another intent, would not fall under this category. If OP is posting things not directed towards this woman, that are otherwise on-topic for the forum, her annoyance will be irrelevant. If OP continues directing posts at this woman specifically, with the knowledge that it does annoy or harm her, then his chances of getting tagged for harassment go way, way up.

    [–]DiaboliAdvocatus 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You also need to start reading and responding to entire posts.

    Take your own advice as you cut off a critical portion of my comment you quoted.

    A pattern is harassment if/when it is done with the intent to annoy or harm.

    And if there is no pattern the feelings of the plaintiff or the intent of the defendant doesn't even come into it. You cut off what I said about volume, and that is one of the things that comes into determining if there is a pattern of behavior.

    [–]spdorsey 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    OP's intent would be in play here.

    You just answered my other question. Thanks for posting this.

    (This discussion is getting heated! Wow!)

    [–]bitter-grape[S] 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

    who the hell finds wise-cracks on fb that rise to the level of involving the police. wasn't like I anonymously threatened the person. she could've blocked me and called it a day.

    [–]Justagreewithme 41ポイント42ポイント  (4子コメント)

    As a police dispatcher, it happens every single day. Every. Single. Day.

    [–]Fawky42 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    yeah please share some stories of crap people call in with...

    [–]283495 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I have mentally ill people in my family that will text me and tell me I'm making fun of people on Facebook because I rick-rolled someone. Sometimes people are batshit and you just have to block them and not talk to them any more or they will constantly be offended with you. People be cray-cray.

    [–]Rogue12Patriot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And those people should be laughed off the phone.....

    [–]torac 69ポイント70ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Police can talk to you if they want. Unless there is an actual action (Incident reports, detaining, arrest, lawful orders etc), you can ignore what they say if you want. He doesn’t need to listen to your side of the story here.

    What I suggest you do is:

    • Consider if you will ever have anything to do with this woman.

      • You already banned her, so is there even a need to ever talk to her again?
      • If there are future interactions with her, limit them to the minimum. This may include ignoring her.
      • Do not make any posts on facebook about this incident, she seems invested enough to cause you trouble for it.
    • Reread your posts and try to find out if it may have been genuinely hurtful to certain people. Just because you are not hurt by words doesn’t mean no one else is, especially if they are in a vulnerable place.

      • Try to consider if this may happen again. Even without legal action, facebook may ban you for hateful speech, so be careful.

    If you believe the cop did not do their job properly, you may want to complain to his superior.

    Even ridiculous suits can win if you ignore them. If you are sued, respond with a lawyer.

    [–]Bob_Sconce 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    (1) You've banned her, so have no need to interact with her any more, right?

    (2) Until it gets to the level of harassment, police really don't want to/can't deal with resolving facebook flame wars. And, harassment takes substantially more than a single event.

    (3) That said, the latin maxim "ne foramen natibus" (loosely translated "don't be an asshole") is generally good advice.

    [–]loltheist 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I strongly suggest you visit the PD of the officer who showed up and ask to speak to a supervisor. This sounds fishy to me. You'll either find out what you actually violated, or help get this potential dirtbag off the force.

    [–]ambitious_flosser 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This seems ridiculous. Is this a small town? No court is going to handle this bs, at least any legitimate court.

    I come from a cop family, and at least where I'm from, they wouldn't even bother to stop laughing about it if they grabbed this job.

    [–]shadowofashadow 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You shouldn't discuss something like this with the police. It's not a criminal matter and if it is they will arrest you and then you get a lawyer to do your talking. Arguing with a cop is futile, especially over something like this. All you do is give them more rope to hang you with.

    [–]Ceirann 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Proper reply: "Get off my porch, come back with a warrant".

    [–]Sayse 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

    What exactly did you say to her? The fact you called it ridicule and haven't told us what it was makes her complaint seem valid until we know the severity of what you said.

    [–]RocheCoach 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It doesn't really matter. If it was anything criminal, he would have been arrested.

    [–]tehlaser 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It could matter. Many harassment laws, including (it appears) parts of NJ's, only kick in after repeated instances of the harassing behavior. A single incident might not be enough to arrest OP, but repeated instances could be.

    a person commits a petty disorderly persons offense if, with purpose to harass another, he:

    ...

    c.Engages in any other course of alarming conduct or of repeatedly committed acts with purpose to alarm or seriously annoy such other person.

    [–]king_of_the_universe 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    OP wants to stay anonymous. A too precise text would allow us to google it. Maybe that's their concern.

    [–]Bagellord 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Don't talk to the woman anymore, and just ignore the cop.

    [–]captainkaleb 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Lol, sounds like someone got their cop buddy/relative to come over and try to scare you. Pathetic.

    [–]punfree 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Were you arrested? Were you given any paperwork, a citation of some kind? Were you instructed to do anything? If all he did was show up and say "don't comment on this lady's posts anymore (because cops have better things to do than deal with high school bullshit)", then....don't.

    [–]couldabeen 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Depending on whether what I said was really harmful or stalker like, I might otherwise feel that my freedom of speech was being violated by a member of LE trying to tell me what social media posts I could and could not comment on. Not sure that would fly for me. But that's just me.

    [–]executeBounce 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is exactly what I was going to ask. Isn't this directly violating the first amendment by telling someone to not comment on other people's posts, especially under the guise of authority? Also, the cop said to not reply to anyone's posts, not just the offended party.

    [–]punfree 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Until you're in a courtroom, it's a request, not a criminal charge. He's telling you how to keep it from becoming a thing. If you still want to make it a thing, ignore him.

    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

    [removed]

      [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):

      Bad Advice

      • This post is being removed because it is, frankly speaking, bad legal advice. Either it is inapplicable for the jurisdiction in which OP resides, or misunderstands the fundamentals of the applicable legal issues.

      If you feel this was in error, message the moderators.

      [–]NoMoreJuiceBoxes 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Go to the police station and ask about his visit.

      [–]LarsArcana 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      this lady got so butt hurt after I ridiculed her for the content that she submitted

      First rule of avoiding legal trouble is "Don't be an asshole." Especially to cops, or people who have cop friends.

      [–]jupitaur9 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      So you banned her from the FB group? So now you don't have to interact with her. The end.

      [–]sifumokung -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Nothing. If you want to complain about the cop you can. It won't change anything.

      [–]Junkmans1 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

      OK, it sounds like a pissing war is taking place. You can either continue it with the chance of a possible escalation or let it die out by doing nothing.

      IANAL, but I don't think that having a report as a harasser is anything that will pop up on your record in any way unless the situation with her continues and further complaints of you harassing her, or another, come up be they right or wrong. Presuming that is the case you have nothing to gain by following up on this other than continuing to get her and the cop (possibly her friend) riled up and cause further trouble. Also, it sounds like she is already out of your FB group so there will no further issues there.

      My advice, stop letting this bother you and just move on with your life.

      [–]Mybz1018 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Forget people who are discussing what defines "harassment" because that makes anyone who comes on here as a "troll" is harassing us because their intent is to annoy the Reddit community and in that case based on examples people are giving we can all go file a police report against the trolls. With that being said you didn't do anything wrong from what I can tell based on your post. You are right, the woman got butt hurt and has a friend that is a cop. You need to go down to your local district or precinct where this cop is located and talk to a superior. I know for a fact that this type of behavior is frowned upon. Chances are it's not the first time this officer pulled a stunt like that. I have relatives and a ton of friends who are cops. They would get in trouble even off duty for something like that. This woman posted a comment that you responded to, maybe she shouldn't have made the comment. You have the right to free speech. You administer the page. If you banned her then she was probably annoying other members. Maybe your other members should have a police visit based on some of the comments on this page. Go talk to a superior. Chances are this officer will be told not to contact you again. And if he does, report him again. And chances are this cop didn't file a report because it's BS.

      [–]Lehk -32ポイント-31ポイント  (4子コメント)

      You should refrain from commenting on this woman's posts. If you continue to do so, you stand a good chance of getting cited or arrested. Just block her and move on with your life.

      [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

      [removed]

        [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor[M] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):

        Bad Advice

        • This post is being removed because it is, frankly speaking, bad legal advice. Either it is inapplicable for the jurisdiction in which OP resides, or misunderstands the fundamentals of the applicable legal issues.

        If you feel this was in error, message the moderators.

        [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

        [removed]

          [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor[M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):

          Bad Advice

          • This post is being removed because it is, frankly speaking, bad legal advice. Either it is inapplicable for the jurisdiction in which OP resides, or misunderstands the fundamentals of the applicable legal issues.

          If you feel this was in error, message the moderators.