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I can't do this shit anymore (self.GamerGhazi)

dayum-son が 投稿

At this point I don't think I can really continue to "be into gaming" without contributing to a culture and industry that supports violent toxic masculinity.

Swear to god, I can't fucking take the cognitive dissonance of playing or even outright being a fan of Quake, CSGO or Titanfall without coming to the terms with the fact that pretty much all of these games, implicitly or explicitly give a message of "YEAH, ISN'T KILLING PEOPLE FUCKING AWESOME"

I mean, what the fuck, the head of EA called World War 1 an "epic battle." Yeah brah, that's so fuckin epic dude like burger I got at In-N-Out yo.

So yeah, rather than continue to play games and then spend days hating myself for it, I'm just........ not gonna anymore. I advise y'all do the same. And don't give that "it's ok to like problematic things", that's hypocritical chickenshit bullshit and you know it.

The medium is the message motherfucker

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[–]koronicusSocial Justice Platypus 19ポイント20ポイント  (5子コメント)

But... it is okay to like problematic things. The key is that you recognize the problems. That's not hypocrisy.

And if you find yourself no longer enjoying those things as a result of their problems, that's legit. And if you find yourself wanting to find or create alternatives without those problems, that's legit. Hell, creating those alternatives is the definition of progress.

[–]dayum-son[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't know what to say other than "Gaming Industry, I've Given You All and Now I'm Nothing"

To me, being a fan of something that's core values inherently and irrevocably disagree with your own is, yeah, hypocrisy. It's not so bad to admit to being a hypocrite. I mean, hell, not all hypocrisy is even objectively bad. I just don't feel comfortable living with this kind of hypocrisy.

[–]koronicusSocial Justice Platypus 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

I see that as two separate issues, though. The gaming industry is more than just AAA shooters. Enjoying a video game because its mechanics are fun doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand with passively accepting and internalizing its implicit messaging. I think it's important to be able to recognize "I find this game fun, but the myriad instances of toxic masculinity/racism/whatever detract from the experience" because the alternative, as has already been said elsewhere here in this thread, is essentially never being able to enjoy any form of media.

[–]iamspacedadPsy-ops Specialist 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Okay, and if that turns you off, support the parts of the industry or indie devs that you enjoy and you see as positive.

For myself, I'm going to play these problematic games that I enjoy while raising awareness about their problematic aspects.

If taking part in something makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. That's all there is to it.

[–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

And don't give that "it's ok to like problematic things", that's hypocritical chickenshit bullshit and you know it.

Okay so this is a valid point when someone uses this as an excuse not to think about the media they consume, but if you tried never to enjoy or consume problematic media you wouldn't be able to do anything.

No movies, books, tv, internet, games. Everything has problematic elements.

Edit: Please don't downvote dayum-son because you don't like what they're saying guys.

[–]wightjiltSchrodinger's Cuck 9ポイント10ポイント  (7子コメント)

And don't give that "it's ok to like problematic things", that's hypocritical chickenshit bullshit and you know it.

Yeah, fuck you. Everything is problematic on some level and if we aren't allowed to still find valuable things in problematic media, that leaves us with basically nothing to like.

If you personally find video games to be too problematic to enjoy, that is 100% okay - you do you. But, please, do not call other people "chicken-shit hypocrites" for not finding a problem with being able to recognize problems with a media while still enjoying it.

[–]dayum-son[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's called not liking anything anymore.

If I can do it, so can you!

[–]wightjiltSchrodinger's Cuck 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

No. That's a frighteningly pessimistic way to look at things.

[–]dayum-son[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

With the way the world is going to hell, it might as well be a realistic outlook then.

[–]wightjiltSchrodinger's Cuck 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I know that just a moment ago I was being belligerent, but the all or nothing kind of thinking and extreme pessimism you're expressing in this thread are all serious symptoms of a depressive episode. Are you currently seeing a therapist? If not, you should really consider it. I know from my own experiences with BPD that it can really help.

[–]dayum-son[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If were gonna continue the episode analogy, I'm not in a depressive episode, I've been in the midst of a depressive 2 season boxset.

Just want to clarify that yes, I'm seeing a therapist regularly.

[–]SpeakofSmallThingsdepressed trans(mtf) commie 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Gotta be honest this stuff is the only thing that allows me some excuse to not kill myself.

[–]thefinestposNever Go Full Ethics 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

FWIW, I don't necessarily agree with OP but I get their conundrum. The industry, particularly AAA games, are routinely about violence and winning going hand in hand and it can get tiring sometimes. I think it's silly to advocate the dismantling of the whole thing but I can't blame those who feel that way.

Sorry if this sounds patronizing but;

So yeah, rather than continue to play games and then spend days hating myself for it

You need not justify anything anything you don't enjoy or find comfort in. You don't like games and the messages they send, spend your time doing something else. Either games not built on extreme violence or something else entirely.

[–]Mursili 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Ok then! All the best to you and yours.

[–]Ruefully 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Troll? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt:

The video game business is a large industry. There are numerous nonviolent games with quiet fanbases out there. I don't think a fan base is worth losing a hobby over. Just disconnect with it. Sure, there are lots of troublesome things about games on the internet that I choose to read and discuss. But I know I could disappear from them if I wanted to. Like what you like instead of worrying about other people.

And if you can't do that, again, lots of very good and interesting nonviolent games out there.

[–]dayum-son[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Have you seen ANY of the E3 of the conferences out there. I mean, what the fuck, 90% of the games being hyped the hell out by some CEO marketer fuck is another shooter.

And before you say "but E3 isn't representative of the industry as a whole", uhh yeah it pretty much IS the mainstream industry

[–]Ruefully 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Are you not interested in non-mainstream games then? There are a number of other genres besides shooters.

[–]dayum-son[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not about what I'm into. It's about what everyone else is into and what this bag of shit that just so happens to be on fire that we call the gaming community and culture is and promotes to mainstream prominence.

[–]Foresight2 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

World War 1 an "epic battle."

I don't get how getting stuck inside a trench 24/7 and worry about a grenade shell dropping on your head at all times is supposed to be epic but okay.

But yes, it is a game about war, so of course you kill people, just like how Monster Hunter is a game where you hunt exotic and ferocious big game. If killing people isn't that kind of thing for you there are alot of other good games out there that don't.

[–]generic_username420 7ポイント8ポイント  (20子コメント)

Are you a 70 year old conservative?

I thought we'd gone past this stage when it comes to talking about video games.

[–]ShootTrumpIntoTheSun 1ポイント2ポイント  (19子コメント)

I dunno. I think they've got a point. Video games (probably) don't make people more violent. But don't you think that playing as a character that shoots thousands of other humans a little... I dunno... Desensitizing? Can we not have a discussion about that?

[–]Meshleth 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Can we not have a discussion about that?

I remember there being a Moviebob video about why discussions like this within gaming communities are, pretty much, impossible.

[–]ShootTrumpIntoTheSun 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

But surely not within /r/Gamerghazi...?

[–]Meshleth 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, look at the votes on this post.

Also, this is the vid.

[–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

People do get defensive even within GamerGhazi, I got downvoted a whole bunch a while back for saying that in my personal experience playing violent games did show a change within my own behavior I didn't like so I limited my exposure.

I believe you can enjoy problematic things as long as you think critically about it and guard against taking on negative aspects of it too.

Edit: Shit look at the votes in this thread. And I doubt it's a brigade.

[–]dayum-son[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

It's not a matter or desensitization at all. It's a matter of what video games, or actually pretty much most of American popular culture tells it's audiences.

It has to do with video games celebrating guns and combat in general as "cool" or "fucking awesome." And when you're culture unironically says "violence is rad", it tells people that "fuck violence ain't all that bad."

I'm not saying games make people killers (that's stupid to say), but they making look killing cool, and people are definitely gonna take that message away.

[–]ShootTrumpIntoTheSun 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

This is the best argument I've heard about it. It's like why we don't have cigarette ads on TV any more. It makes it look "cool."

[–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's like why we don't have cigarette ads on TV any more. It makes it look "cool."

Regarding this, does anyone else find it weird that they banned cigarette ads but not alcohol commercials? Yeah they tag "drink responsibly" onto them but if the argument is "cigarette ads glorify smoking which harms people" then beer commercials definitely do the same with alcohol.

[–]dayum-son[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Probably because alcohol isn't nearly as harmful for you compared to drinking.

Or that the alcohol industry is nowhere near as sketchy/bullshity as the cigarette industry.

[–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Probably because alcohol isn't nearly as harmful for you compared to drinking.

I'd argue that alcohol contributes to the harm of others just as much as cigarettes contribute to the harm of self. It is a contributing factor to rape culture, drunk driving, and domestic abuse. We also have a big problem in the US with underage drinking because kids feel like getting drunk is a "cool" way to have fun.

One or two drinks is not going to hurt you, but the culture surrounding alcohol certainly will.

Or that the alcohol industry is nowhere near as sketchy/bullshity as the cigarette industry.

All big industries are sketchy as fuck though.

[–]dayum-son[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Cigarette's are solely designed to get you addicted and slowly kill you. Like, that's exactly the only outcome possible from smoking.

You can abuse alcohol, and certain people just cannot drink it because of alcoholism but it is very much possible to drink beer without killing yourself or someone else. Can't say the same about cigarettes

And seriously, yeah big business is sketchy in general but don't try to tell me that any beer company is anywhere near as bad as Phillip Morris or some shit.

[–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cigarette's are solely designed to get you addicted and slowly kill you. Like, that's exactly the only outcome possible from smoking.

Okay, I won't disagree but we were talking about dangerous things being portrayed as "cool". Alcohol can be dangerous like violent media or cigarettes and it is surrounded by a culture were "lol drunk people" is humorous even when they hurt themselves or others.

The alcohol itself would not be a problem, the culture surrounding it makes it so.

[–]dayum-son[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then again, Buddy Nielsen from Senses Fail thinks alcohol is evil and bad. I mean, hell, "Still Searching" is pretty much "hey everyone did you know alcohol is bad and shit"

I mean, fucker played a show at bar and told everyone there that they shouldn't be drinking or supporting said bar financially because beer is bad. Call him an asshole (I know plenty of people on /r/poppunkers and /r/posthardcore have) but at least he's a man of his own principles.

[–]someshatteringfawn 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

i do think it's a bit strange how "real games" typically involve murder of some sort. i mean i get that as a gameplay mechanic, it's as one of the easiest and most interactive ways to solve a puzzle, to put it totally callously.

i guess what bothers me most is the propensity to make it as disturbingly visceral as possible. like the prevalence of pre-scripted executions for downed enemies. I enjoyed the gameplay of Titanfall but I hate how it was a gameplay mechanic to reward me for ripping another pilot out of their mecha and watching a pre-scripted sequence of my avatar squishing theirs.

not that I think it makes people murder or makes them violent or want to murder. I just find it unsavory. i've seen enough viscera irl, i wouldn't mind more competitive games that didn't make me relive that.

[–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I hate how things that are violent are the only things considered "real games".

Why can't I have a "real" game about gardening or something? If it's an enjoyable thing to play then doesn't that make it real enough?

[–]wightjiltSchrodinger's Cuck 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Anybody who says Harvest Moon isn't a real game is a fool.

[–]ShootTrumpIntoTheSun 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

I know. I love Bioshock Infinite but I can't help but wonder what audience they were targeting with those melee finishers. Those are... Graphic.

[–]iamagoodatheist 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Stab a person with a wheel knife thing in real life and tell me it looks anything other than that.

[–]TheAmazingChinchillaImagine a world without white hetero cis male protagonists 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stab a person with a wheel knife thing in real life and tell me it looks anything other than that.

DISCLAIMER: Don't actually stab a person with a wheel knife in real life.

[–]ShootTrumpIntoTheSun 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does it have to be, though? Does there have to be blood spewing all over, and bits of viscera strewn all over? That didn't enhance my immersion at all.