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Redditors from Denmark (also Faroes), Iceland and Norway, what is your opinion of whaling? (self.Nordiccountries)

helmia が 投稿

Especially interesting would be hearing the how Faroe Islanders feel about it, since they seems to have the biggest international attention on the matter.

Edit: Alright, so I am dropping this thread now. Thanks for the answers, they were very interesting. Also it is clear this subject is extremely touchy and people feel irritated by just asking questions (since it seemed to be more and more concerned about how I feel or see the subject), it seems that discussing this matter is not pretty wanted from strangers. However, thanks again for everyone who took their time to (approriately) answer!

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[–]AppleDaneVestsjælland 17ポイント18ポイント  (25子コメント)

Depend on what whale species we're talking. Pilot whales are killed every year, and has been killed every year since people started inhabiting the Faroes, they aren't endangered, they contribute to the local economy, they eat the meat themselves, and it's about as humane as most other type of animal killing. If you want to ban pilot whale killing, then you'll also want to ban hunting of any other mammal.

Commercial whaling is a bit different, especially with species at risk. I'm not well enough informed to pass judgement on the morality on most types of whalings, but I'd like to see whaling banned if 1) it's purely for economic reasons and 2) the whalers don't eat at least part of the meat themselves.

[–]helmia[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (24子コメント)

Thank you far taking your time to answer! If you don´t mind, a few questions popped in my mind when I was reading your text. Since you are referring how ancient the Faroes tradition is, I am assuming in your opinion hunting/any activity that ends up killing the animal is acceptable if it is part of a culture? Do you feel the same about Spanish bull fights, fox hunting etc? Would you say this is a common point of view when discussing the whaling in Faroes (people highlighting the importance of respecting other´s culture)?Also, would you like to open up your logic a bit more on this statement "if you want to ban pilot whale killing, then you'll also want to ban hunting of any other mammal"?

[–]AppleDaneVestsjælland 5ポイント6ポイント  (13子コメント)

Do you feel the same about Spanish bull fights, fox hunting etc?

Both "sports" are purely for fun, and also prolonged harrassment/hurting of the animal. Pilot whale killings are done as fast as possible.

culture

Culture is a part of the reason it's acceptable, but not the whole story. The whales provide a feast for the Faroese, it's something they identify by, and they get food. Bullfighting only arguably tick off the second.

open up your logic

There's not much to open up. The killing of one animal in a hunting situation is the same as the other. It's a driven hunt, for the meat, performed seasonally. Only difference is that it takes place on a shore and that there is some emotional baggage to the name "whale".

[–]helmia[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (12子コメント)

Sorry, but I don't understand. I think that the whales are very much harassed while they are chased to the beach. In foxhungting, the fox is chased and then shot. The whales are harassed to the corner and then killed with a much longer style. How is it better? Do you see whaling as more humane?

Also could you provide the link/source where you get your information on how fast the whales are killed?

On the last part, would you eat dog meat? Do you support the Chinese/Korean dogmeat festivals?

[–]killah_mooseNorway 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

In foxhungting, the fox is chased and then shot.

I thought the hunting dogs would tear the fox in pieces while it was still alive, and that was the reason for banning fox hunting "british style". Mind you, people still hunt foxes in norway, but they use a gun to kill the fox.

[–]AppleDaneVestsjælland 4ポイント5ポイント  (10子コメント)

How is it better?

They eat the whale.

would you eat dog meat?

No, I'm pickish. I also don't eat chicken and fish. I don't look down on people for eating chicken or whatever, as long as it's not hurt more than needed.

[–]Mathiaspius 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

(Not AppleDane)

The difference between pilot whale hunting and bullfighting is that bullfighting is primarily a form of entertainment, not hunting, and causes unnecessary harm to the animal before it is killed. Nothing about bullfighting is necessary in order to kill the bull or prepare it, nor does it in any way make it easier, quite the opposite in fact.

Comparing the two and questioning it under the umbrella of argument from tradition seems a little disingenuous on your part, although I might be reading into your wording too much. Nobody here is defending whaling on the basis of "it's tradition", they're doing it on the basis of "It's a harmless sustainable tradition that wastes very little and feeds a great deal of people with minimal cruelty inflicted".

[–]helmia[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (8子コメント)

Could you please provide the information of the minimal cruelty? And it might be just my problem of reading comprehension, but to me it seems the tradition-part plays are pretty big role in the answers.

[–]Mathiaspius 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

Supplying you with a satisfactory source is gonna be impossible because it's a controversial issue, and it's pretty obvious on which side of the fence you are. Any source I could dust up (having no real knowledge or interest in this area myself), would either not support my claim, or be considered biased by you, almost guaranteed.

The whales are herded towards the shore and killed as fast as possible. That's the least cruel you can possibly do. They aren't taunting them or injuring them slowly until they die of exhaustion like in bullfighting, it isn't a huge spectacle where the enjoyment of the crowds is prioritized, and they aren't dragging them onto the shore to let them die slowly. They're herding them, trapping them, and killing them as fast as they possibly can without having the meat spoil.

[–]helmia[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't understand what my opiniom has to do anything on the fact how the whales are killed. People keep refering how quick and humane the killing method is, sure you have some kind of source of information why you say that? Also, since people keep pointing out how the activity doesn't involve any enjoyment or entarteinment, what does it matter to the animal?

Funny you answered using bullfighting when I refered to foxhungting.

[–]Mathiaspius 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Someone else already explained to you that they kill them by cutting their main artery. How is that cruel?

[–]helmia[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Sorry I must have missed that. Would you mind copying the sentence/who it was? Also, I don't know, how do you know that cutting their main arteries is not cruel? I'm trying to search on the killing methods but can't really find anything on English. Edit: Ups, found it!

[–]Mathiaspius 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Cutting the main artery near the head of any animal is gonna kill it in minutes, cause it to lose consciousness in seconds. Short of using a pneumatic bolt gun to the brain, it's probably the fastest and most humane way of killing anything.

[–]helmia[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I found information stating they severe their spinal cord and the death can take anywhere between few secons to half a minute.

[–]sotolf2 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Whaling as long as it sustainable, I have no problem with it, and whale meat is good and nutricious. What is the problem? are you against killing of deer and rabbits as well?

[–]helmia[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Umm, why are you asking my opinion on this matter?

[–]sotolf2 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because your behaviour and way of talking in this thread is very negative, and I want to know why. You want to know our opinion, why is it not okay for me to ask about yours?

[–]DeSanti 7ポイント8ポイント  (18子コメント)

Sustainable whaling within the feasible methods of humane hunting methods is absolutely not a problem for me. I quote the legendary rhetorical master Hans Bauge: WHALE-MEAT IS FOOD!

[–]helmia[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (17子コメント)

How is the way whales are killed more humane than any other slaughter?

[–]DeSanti 4ポイント5ポイント  (10子コメント)

The traditional idea of "humane slaughter" or hunting, is that the goal is to kill the animal as quickly and painless as is possible. When that is the priority, or the main principle of hunting then that is the idea of "humane hunting" as we'd call it.

I didn't claim they were more humane than other methods, but that it was one of the principles when hunting.

Grindadráp is a good example of it, believe it or not, as they cut the spinal cord main artery immediately on the beach which means pretty much as quick a death as one could expect. Not poking with spears or trying to bring the animal down by wear and tear.

[–]helmia[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (9子コメント)

I found informatiom stating they also drag dolphins by their blowhole and severe their spinal cord.

[–]Hitno 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well considering pilot whales are in the dolphin family that might be that, othwise there haven't been killed dolphins for the last 10 years on all but one beach(Hvalba), and that beach has only had dolphins killed 3 times in the last decade. While still legal to kill dolphins, it has pretty much stopped.

[–]DeSanti 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

They drag the pilot whale up from the water a few meters to land so that it's easier to manage when cutting their spinal cord (not main artery as I said, sorry) -- which kills them in the matter of seconds. Trying to cut their spinal cord when they're wriggling at sea would only increase the chance of a bad cut or hurting the hunter himself, so I don't see that as an argument for anything.

The hook they use is blunt and therefore doesn't cut through the skin. They've used sharp hooks before but multiple laws over the decades has ensured a more humane way to do this.

Considering that the average fisher most likely inflict more pain on the fish it has caught with a fishing rod, I'd say this method in grindadráp seems fairly humane.

[–]AtheosWrathNorway, Nordland 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Who drag dolphins by the blowhole?

[–]helmia[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

The Faroese. According to wikipedia.

[–]sotolf2 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Wikipedia? And did you look into the wikipedia sources? I could write on wikipedia that Donald Trump is a japanese grandmother famous for crocheting underwear.

[–]helmia[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I sure did, it is hard to find objective information in this subject.

[–]sotolf2 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Obviously you have only read cases from one side of this case, or else you would have a less argumentative way talking about it, and you'd be able to see it from two sides.

[–]DeSanti -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

The wikipedia article he read is fairly correct from what I read and remember from documentaries. They drag them up with a blunt hook so it's easier to manage when they kill the whale.

Helmia just neglected to mention what it expressively said was the reason for dragging them up to the beach.

[–]sotolf2 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, good, some times the articles on wikipedia are really great, some times not good, but if you vouch for it it makes me feel better.

[–]AllanKempe 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's not more humane than how we'd slaughter a cow. It's about as humane. I asume you don't eat meat. Well, why don't you focus on the large scale meat industry instead which is far more worse than whaling communities up north are up to?

[–]helmia[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Would it be too much to ask to respect what I stated this thread to be? I have zero interest in going through this with you, I am asking questions on people who are actually involved in this matter, if you have such a burning desire to know how I view the world and why, then please pm me.

[–]AllanKempe 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Would it be too much to ask to respect what I stated this thread to be?

You already mentioned it twice, yes.

I have zero interest in going through this with you, I am asking questions on people who are actually involved in this matter,

So, the others here are involved in whaling directly?

if you have such a burning desire to know how I view the world and why, then please pm me.

No, you're a very small and evil person so nope, I won't give you the attention. I'll just keep downvoting everything you post in this thread.

[–]helmia[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I know, so I just saved you and me the time of your real purpose. :D Your reason was clear from the beginning so isn't it easier this way? Evil indeed, so horribly evil.

[–]AllanKempe -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're obviously just trolling us Nordics here so I don't take you seriously.

[–]helmia[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hello, I am from your neighbour country Finland.We were ruled by your country for 600 years. We have Swedish for a second language. Nice to provide this new information for you.

[–]thetarget3Denmark 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm perfectly fine with what the Faroese are doing. As long as it is sustainable and used for a good purpose, I can't see what I should have against it.

[–]helmia[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

What is the good purpose?

[–]thetarget3Denmark 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

Eating.

[–]helmia[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

So you don't support killing of the wales that are left uneaten?

[–]thetarget3Denmark 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well I don't support the killings of whales that are left unused. I also don't think there's much reason to re-establish whaling on an industrial scale, even if we ignore the ecological impact, but I think it's perfectly fine that small societies to traditional whaling.

[–]helmia[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Thanks for answering! Would you day your views match the mainstream opinion in your country?

[–]thetarget3Denmark 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think it's the more common view, but I'd imagine there's a substantial minority which is against whaling altogether.

[–]helmia[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Interesting, thanks!

[–]thetarget3Denmark 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Take it with a grain of salt though. It's just my own experience but I'm of course biased from being in my social circles.

[–]supralibris 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

It needs to be humane and controlled not over fishing/over killing. Then i do not se a problem. Scientists needs to be the ones that define what is over-killing not politicians - this goes for all the fishing/hunting/killing that happens in the oceans.

[–]Jeppep 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

My opinion is that if we want to help all sea mammals and save endangered species in the oceans then we should do much more to stop Chinese krill fishing, over fishing in general, stop using plastics that don't break down in nature, reduce the amount of large transatlantic ships/up the technology - maybe have ships run on solar/nuclear. Whaling is not even close to being a problem compared to those things.

[–]FutskiØstjylland 5ポイント6ポイント  (32子コメント)

I back the Faroese 100%.

It's sustainable, one of the few native food sources they got, and contrary to all the bullshit thrown around on the internet, it isn't more cruel than other forms of hunting.

It's not super good for you to eat though, since they as large predators and gather up a big amount of heavy metals.

The people who want it to stop, and harrassing them, like the Sea Shepherd, are doing for keeping it alive, than anyone else.

[–]SonolsNorway 0ポイント1ポイント  (15子コメント)

The Sea Shepard will be sunk, like it was last time they harassed whalers in norwegian waters.

[–]helmia[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (14子コメント)

Jesus, are you serious?? So the Norwegian (army? Whoever is doing the sinking) are ready to possibly kill to protect the whalers? How do you know it was the last time and there are really going to be consequences next time? What are the Sea Shepard doing to provoke something so extreme?

[–]sotolf2 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

Not kill, just let them float a bit in the water and get picked up, you know these are the scumbags throwing acid on whalers disfiguring them for life. Just for doing their work and sustaining their family, now go and tell their kids that disfiguring their dad was a good thing to do...

[–]helmia[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

No I most definately don't know Sea Sheperds have thrown acid on people.

[–]sotolf2 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

And because you personally don't know they don't exist. Just do a google search, it's not very difficult, itt seems like you're able to write and read english well enough.

[–]helmia[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I mean in Faroe Islands. But fair enough.

[–]sotolf2 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

So what an asshole does in one place makes them a good person somewhere else, if a guy swindled and tortured a couple of guys in Poland I sure as hell wouldn't let him watch my kids...

[–]helmia[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That is a good point.

[–]sotolf2 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the reason why one should think twice before supporting someone. See the stuff as a whole, not as small points in time.

[–]SonolsNorway 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Possibly, there is always the risk. Most likely not. Here is the tape form the Sea Shepard back in 1994.

The Sea Shepard attack and endanger civilian ship and crew.

[–]helmia[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Oh God, that is somewhat shocking. I still have a hard time seeing perhaps the most humane country killing people because they are protesting, even in a stupid manner. To me it seems Norway is way above that. Or maybe this issue is much more deep than a foreigner can understand if the Norwegian governement places whaling above human life.

[–]SonolsNorway 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

By law, Norway places human life over the lives of any animal. The lives of the crew working aboard the whaling ships where endangered by the sea shepard folks, and as a result the coast guard took action. They did not shoot the Sea Shepard, but shot warning shots over the boat. It was the ramming that sunk the boat.

[–]sotolf2 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because we have a government that is out to protect it's people?

[–]DeSanti 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I would like to remind you that Sea Shepard had two years before this video sabotaged and nearly destroyed a Norwegian ship by breaching its engine room while moored in Lofoten, Norway.

Allow me emphasize that they sabotaged someone's property extensively and then fled the country only to return two years later when this video was shown and attempted to head to a Norwegian whaling port. They were intercepted by the Norwegian Coast Guard, as they were wanted for the sabotage 2 years earlier. They were however given the chance to leave Norwegian territory, they didn't answer, they ignored the warning shots and they still tried to appeal to everyone else but Norwegian authority before the dispute ramming (which to me seems more like Sea Shepard's doing, imo) happens.

[–]helmia[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yep, their way of acting is strange to say at least.

[–]sotolf2 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Strange isn't really the word, but yeah, sea shepard was clearly in the wrong. I mean we're trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, but there have to be some borders for also our tolerance.

[–]helmia[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (15子コメント)

The people who want it to stop, and harrassing them, like the Sea Shepherd, are doing for keeping it alive, than anyone else.

How? I mean, would you like to explain what you mean a little more? Also, if it isn´t good for eating, what exactly is the point of the event?

[–]FutskiØstjylland 5ポイント6ポイント  (11子コメント)

How? I mean, would you like to explain what you mean a little more?

It's not really that complicated. Here's a practice, which the people there have done for generations, ever since the very first people settled the islands. It's something that's played an important role in their survival through the years. It's been going on in smaller and smaller scale as it's become cheaper and easier to get imported goods.

It's not really hard to imagine, what effect a bunch of foreigners, who know fuck all about the islands and their history, coming screaming and crying about how they are barbaric people and all deserve to die, because of whaling, has on a small community like that.

Throw in the fact that these people hadn't had their own written language for centuries, because written Danish was enforced there, and it's not difficult to expect people to backlash against yet another attack on something that's been part of their history for so long.

Also, if it isn´t good for eating, what exactly is the point of the event?

Grind still tastes good. You just shouldn't eat it everyday.

[–]Hitno 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Faroese here. Interest for whaling was at an all time low back in the 1980's with voices even popping up hinting that it should stop. BAM! Comes the Sea Shepherd makes a shit ton of noice and yelling, telling people what to do and not to do, in anything but a civil manner, even going as far as using firearms and fireworks rockets in a threatening manner.

What in the name of all that's holy do you think the reaction to that is going to be?

Though the confrontations in the 80's-90's were the worst, the pattern has been the same ever since, if there's just a hint of interest dwindling among local youth, then Sea Shepherd will come in waving arms and yelling, thus getting the youth more intersted in the subject. The latest resulting in people lining up for a "license to kill whales"

Sea Shepherd is an organisation which is doing fuck all for the oceans, but everything for attention. Go to Japan, their minke whale catches almost doubled after SS started their Whale Wars show.

If you want whaling to stop in any nation, clear examples of this working or at least having any effect at all, would be Norway and Iceland, then let locals who are against it call the shots.

[–]helmia[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes!! Finally a Faroese!! Thank you for answering! That is shocking, I wonder why Sea Shepherd hasn't changed their ways if the outcome is so bad. What is your personal opinion on whaling?

[–]Hitno 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well if we stop whaling, then how are SS going to get donations etc? it's a cash cow for them. Even if their supporters are genuinly for protecting the oceans, and work for free, the organisation is rotten to the core.

I'm against industrial whaling. However small local communites whaling on a local level to supply food, can't really see the problem, sure there's some pollution in the meat, but in this day and age you can hardly eat an apple without getting cancer. But I'd argue that it is better for the environment that we kill and consume aprocs 800 pilot whales a year(local wildlife), than having to import the same amount of meat, raised on an industrial level back on the mainland.

The suffering of the whales is as short as possible, with their spinal cord and main arteries being cut at the same time, the effect is exactly the same as when you wring the neck of a chicken, instant death.

[–]Skari7 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Either we hunt whales, or the whales start to hunt us! We can not allow that to happen.

[–]DufvaSvenFinland 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

I think it's fine. The whales gather on tumblr in such volumes that it's about time to start thinning out the herd.

[–]stevethebanditNorsk-Dansk-Islandsk union når? -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

An important part of the golden age of Norway's presence in the Antarctic. Ended in due time down south, but I think the whaling on the homefront is perfectly stable though

[–]AllanKempe -1ポイント0ポイント  (11子コメント)

I'm from Sweden but I'll answer anyway since we're into hunting of land animals. If the species isn'rt endangered and that the whales kan be killed in a reasonably humane manner I don't see that it's worse than any other form of animal killing. If you like to eat your Sunday steak you shouldn't complain about some small countries up in the north killing non-endangered whales in a reasonably humane way. But if you're against all forms of animal killing I think you're just consistent in your believes if you're against all forms of whaling.

[–]helmia[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

Thanks for your opinion, but I really would like to hear the people from the countries that are mentioned.

[–]AllanKempe 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

Why only them? I come from Jämtland which is a former Norwegian province, traditionally people from my region would join Norwegian fishing and whaling ships until the early 1900's when the union was broken.

[–]helmia[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

Well we used to be a part of Sweden for 600 years but I most definitely am not Swedish. :D

[–]AllanKempe -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

You're from Delaware? Then it's more like 60 years, I guess.

[–]helmia[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

.... Delaware? You serious?

[–]AllanKempe -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

You're American and the only American state that used to be Swedish was Delaware.

[–]helmia[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Alright then. Whoa, just.. Whoa.

[–]helmia[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you truly are serious that is incredible.

[–]AllanKempe -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

What I wonder is why you have such a hate against us Nordic people. Did a finn or an icelander or something steal your lollipop when you were a kid?

[–]retiisinaama 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I knew that Swedish pisa scores were declining, but damn...