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Highlight (PotG) Rule Change: Self Posts Only (self.Overwatch)

turikkCSS Moderator が 投稿 - stickied post

TL;DR

As part of a trial run on changing some subreddit rules, we're going to be restricting any Highlight post to be self-posts only. This means when submitting these types of links, you'll have to do it in a discussion post.

Why are we making this change?

Play of the game and gameplay highlights are awesome. The content is quick, impressive, and showcases some of the best moments of Overwatch. That being said, we think Overwatch is much deeper than just a 10 second clip of your favorite play, and with competitive game mode coming soon, we'd like to float some of the high-level and gameplay discussion up higher on the subreddit.

By making these posts discussion only, we slightly raise the barrier for submission and remove the karma incentive for posting. We don't think this is a nail in the coffin for gameplay highlights, and we don't want it to be. We also think there are a wide variety of other steps we can take the help encourage other submission types, but this is the first step we're trying out today.

Is this change permanent?

The current plan is to run a 1 week evaluation period; from there, we're not sure. It may be the only step we take to help control the influx of highlight posts, or it may be the first of many. We may end up reverting it if it is ineffective or has too many negative consequences for the subreddit. We'd certainly appreciate feedback after it's been live for a few days, to see how you feel it affected your experience on the subreddit.

I found this game because of a cool highlight on /r/all. We shouldn't stop that from happening!

We agree, but think there's a balance between floating popular gifs to the front page and increasing the long term health of the subreddit and this game. We don't want this subreddit to only be known for a place to catch highlights and fan art, but we also don't want to discriminate against the thousands of users who enjoy that content.

Even with this change, I want to filter out all of these plays of the game.

On the sidebar, you can enable the filter system to only see posts of a certain type. Click any of the 6 categories to hide those posts, and you'll be able to then customize it further (showing and hiding only certain posts) by clicking the toggles at the top of the subreddit. For instance, this link will take you to the subreddit with Highlight, Fan Content, and Humor disabled.

The filter system doesn't work on mobile, with my reddit app, or when I have styles disabled.

We strongly believe that Reddit needs a filter system built into the code, and regret that we have to use a limited system to enable this functionality. Subreddit moderators have made the plea before to have the Reddit team create a filter feature that works on all devices, and we hope someday it will be a reality.

As always, message the mod team if you have any questions or feedback regarding the rules.

Regards,
The /r/Overwatch Staff

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[–]HockeyVG 50ポイント51ポイント  (2子コメント)

For instance, this link will take you to the subreddit with Highlight, Fan Content, and Humor disabled.

My God, there's like 4 posts.

[–]itonlygetsworseD.Va's sister is behind Reinhardt's Armor, no joke 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Front page of this subreddit is like 90% plays of the game so this is expected!

コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

    [–]Treebark746 199ポイント200ポイント  (27子コメント)

    Rip 1-click POTGs 😞

    [–]coolgamertagbroPixel Pharah 88ポイント89ポイント  (21子コメント)

    I am honestly really surprised to see anyone care. I figured it would only upset those who were spamming their PotGs for karma. I personally am a bit sick of sorting through all the PotG junk posts to find actual conversation.

    [–]LanathellD.Va 76ポイント77ポイント  (13子コメント)

    When you're browsing on mobile it's much more annoying if they're self post instead of opening on the built-in player. Instead it'll open these on my browser.

    [–]NorthDakota 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I personally like it but I do wish there was more discussion. I'll be sad when potgs are gone because it's my bathroom entertainment

    [–]cfl1Till Valhalla 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Most discussion is (and will, given the sub size, remain) the same "DAE nerf Widowmaker" stuff over and over again with ever-diminishing analysis. When there's significant news or developments you actually see upvoted stuff.

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      [–]ManWithYourPlanPixel McCree 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Same here. PotGs are why I filter everything but discussion posts, and visit /r/Competitiveoverwatch more often than the main sub.

      [–]onionknightpldReinhardt -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

      +1 Sir. I wish this page looked more like that. I can only watch so many 1 kill potgs....while Lucio save the match and gets no credit.

      [–]pyrogunx 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Agree with this. Some legitimate discussion would be more interesting overall.

      [–]zRobber 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yup, shit decision.

      [–]Ninjaspar10There you are... 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

      If you install RES, it's still one click. When you expand the post it'll expand the gif/v automatically.

      [–]Treebark746 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Still shitty for people who hardly ever visits Reddit on a computer

      [–]Ninjaspar10There you are... 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I browse on my phone a lot and opening up the comments opens up the gif at the same time, still one click. What do you use to browse that requires two?

      [–]ighstrey 82ポイント83ポイント  (53子コメント)

      So now it takes two clicks to view a highlight?

      [–]newprofile15 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

      And if you use RES you're shit out of luck - RIP "View all images" button.

      [–]______DEADPOOL______Tracer 35ポイント36ポイント  (25子コメント)

      I hear ya. This isn't going to achieve anything but add extra work just to view these.

      Especially when you use RES, you can just click show images to show them all, now you have to get the page lookin' cluttered up.

      [–]HaMx_Platypus 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Its clear by the amount of upvotes POTG posts receive that people like them. When people like posts they come back here. When people come back here, they will upvote more posts and maybe even be inclined to discuss the game with others. This is how subreddits grow. If this change stays, i doubt this sub will have much more growth statisticaly

      [–]GregerMoekPixel Junkrat 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I mean I don't even know why they're changing it since we have filters already. If you filter out "highlights" you'll get discussions most of the time. Fan art doesn't get upvoted nearly as much as highlights do so that's not really a problem.

      [–]Mehknic 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Filters aren't there on mobile, but this change is mobile unfriendly too.

      [–]Morrigan_Cain 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I like and am interested in the serious side of overwatch, but I love the PotGs. I go to competitiveoverwatch if I only want discussion, here I love the highlights and fanart and even the memes. It adds a lot of color to the community imo

      [–]KerubikuroReinhardt 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

      That's one of the reasons behind the change. More work will mean fewer and slower upvotes, which in theory will reduce the number of highlights reaching the front page.

      [–]newprofile15 7ポイント8ポイント  (9子コメント)

      And the virtue of that is...?

      [–]KerubikuroReinhardt 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

      At the moment, most of the posts reaching the front page are highlight gifs. Some people have voiced their dissatisfaction with this, claiming that highlights are stifling other forms of content. The mods are aiming to please this group by reducing the number of highlight submissions. They're also trying not to alienate people who mainly come here for gameplay clips, which is why they are restricting submissions to a certain format as opposed to creating a megathread or banning them.

      [–]funkyfool999Junkrat 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      OP mentioned it. More incentive to post discussions and even out the content of the sub beyond just clips. I personally welcome this change with the release of competitive and hopefully some balance change, but I can see why others would not. If you enjoy the clips, I would say keep upvoting them and tell the mods you disliked the change after the 1 week trial period.

      [–]newprofile15 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Just giving early feedback. I think high-quality discussion threads would make it to the top regardless of any rule changes, especially if cross-posted to competitiveoverwatch and overwatchuniversity.

      [–]440Music -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

      If you make a post on this forum about game mechanics or any discussion at all really, it'll drown in the sea of POTG and shitposts. You can't seriously discuss any hero or map issue here because of the sheer lack of visibility. Reducing instant-gratification low content posts like highlights will pave the way for actual discussions to make it to the front page.

      [–]newprofile15 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

      If you make a post on this forum about game mechanics or any discussion at all really, it'll drown in the sea of POTG and shitposts.

      Show me those posts that are supposedly being drowned out. Show me this promised land of high-quality discussion posts that are not making it to the front page.

      It doesn't exist. Go to the new queue and look at the self-posts. They're garbage.

      Redundant balance whining: https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4nic90/widowmaker_makes_this_game_extremely_unenjoyable/

      Redundant mechanic whining: https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4nibxd/get_rid_of_stacking_already/

      Seriously, if you want serious high-quality discussion threads... MAKE THEM. High-quality discussion threads with thought and time invested in them, discussion threads that don't rehash something that has been discussed a million times before (whining for McCree nerfs, Widowmaker nerfs, stacking teams, how to counter Bastion, DAE team not take a healer?, DAE team not focus on objective?, etc.) can make it to the front page.

      Sidenote: the better way to get threads like this to the front page (they're making it there on their own, but if you want even more exposure for them) would be for mods to sticky select high-quality threads of this sort.

      [–]tek84516 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

      https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4ngkry/grouping_and_matchmaking_potential_issue/?compact=true

      I really wanted to hear more input, but this was a legitimate concern that was buried.

      [–]newprofile15 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Do you think that this post would make the front page now with the rule change? Or even cross 10 upvotes? I doubt it.

      I appreciate that your post invites discussion but the majority opinion on that topic is probably just "I hate playing against super-powered groups when I am solo," so people are happy that grouping is prioritized with MMR.

      Second, your post relies entirely on your one anecdotal experience. I actually don't even know that grouping is prioritized over MMR. Maybe include a link from a Blizzard source that says that? Are there official resources on the topic? Including objective resources and evidence will attract discussion to a topic because without objective resources to refer to, people have no idea what they're even arguing! I wouldn't even know what to say in your thread because I don't know if grouping is prioritized over MMR, to what extent grouping is prioritized over MMR (if it is at all), what others have said on the topic, how it works in other games... I just lack too much knowledge.

      And if you want to facilitate discussion, it can help to pose questions with pros and cons of each approach or propose compromises or alternate solutions.

      I just don't think that post would have gone anywhere before or after the rule.

      [–]justplainjay[XB1] [NA] JustPlainJay 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Exactly, i say, lets wait and see how it plays out. thats why they're doing the 1 week trial period, to see whether its the right option

      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

        [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        We'll be keeping an eye on how it affects things and look forward to feedback once the change has been in effect for a few days.

        コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

          [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Yup.

          コメントをもっと表示する (25 返事)

            [–]ohmylanta1003She Fine! 35ポイント36ポイント  (16子コメント)

            Hmm...I'm really intrigued how this will affect the subreddit! Hope it's for the better, but I do love some of these highlight clips...

            [–]Online_PajamaSoldier: 76: Old Man of Duty: Advanced Booty 2: Revenagance -3ポイント-2ポイント  (15子コメント)

            It most likely will give a better discussion.

            I've seen several subreddits do something similar, and it filters out lazier content, /r/atheism did and it was pretty managable, despite it's userbase problems, to read through when it wasn't just rage comics. /r/Minecraft is another that did something similar and it lead to cooler build posts instead of creeper's looking through windows.

            Honestly, I'm writing a post to do discussions now that I know that I actually stand a chance of reaching people. There is now more reason to do so since POTG's won't just hog the frontpage for a long time.

            [–]newprofile15 15ポイント16ポイント  (13子コメント)

            This isn't an atheism sub, it's a video game sub. Discussions here are mostly whiny backseat developers coming up with ideas to "fix" the game that are completely half-baked. There's a reason most of those posts languish in obscurity. In the rare case that there is a good one, it makes the front page.

            Most users would rather see FUN content related to the game, that's why fan art, humor, and highlights are more popular than divisive discussion threads. The fact that the mods are trying to handicap the fun content is just evidence that they are going against what mos people actually want.

            [–]Online_PajamaSoldier: 76: Old Man of Duty: Advanced Booty 2: Revenagance 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

            There are only so many times I can see DVA randomly launching her meka at spawns and call that "fun, entertaining content."

            I would take a good discussion full of half baked ideas than that every third post, and that's saying something.

            [–]newprofile15 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Go to the new queue and check out the self posts that are in it... you might change your mind.

            It's not POTGs that are keeping discussion threads from making the front page, it's the fact that people like to wish for high-effort discussion threads more than they like to write them up.

            [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

            Most users would rather see FUN content related to the game, that's why fan art, humor, and highlights are more popular than divisive discussion threads. The fact that the mods are trying to handicap the fun content is just evidence that they are going against what mos people actually want.

            We also have to consider protections from the tyranny of the majority. We want to be able to facilitate the popular topics while also allowing more niche and engaging discussions to exist.

            I assure you we're making this change as part of an effort to respond to feedback, not just because we feel like it. Your distrust is misplaced but I understand your skepticism; we'll see how the change plays out.

            [–]newprofile15 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Engaging discussions do exist. In fact, there's one stickied on the front page with over 1500 comments. THAT is a good way to facilitate more discussions that you want while using your power as moderators.

            There's a reason why such discussions don't make the front page very often - it's because most self posts are garbage. Just look at the self posts on the new queue right now. There's a reason this stuff didn't make it to the front page.

            Mod created discussion posts are a good way to center a topic and create a thread where discussion is guaranteed to happen. People are willing to invest their time there.

            [–]GregerMoekPixel Junkrat 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Besides, many comments in the potg gifs lead to nice discussions, depending of course on what kinda potg it is.

            コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                [–]Overlordz88Toblerone 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Is there any mechanism to weight upvotes?

                For example an upvote on a discussion post holds more "Hot" rating than an upvote on a highlight?

                I feel we should somehow encourage discussion as oppose to this approach of discouraging highlights.

                Also, great job Turikk I see you've replied to almost every comment on here- I appreciate the dedication.

                I mean I've started to notice that discussion posts will often have 10x the comments as the highlight posts that end up winning out. So the discussion is happening and people are interested in it, but I feel people only upvote the discussion if they agree with the OP's opinion. I upvote discussion threads if I find them interesting even if I disagree with the opinion.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                We have no way to influence voting and believe we are actually prohibited from doing this in any sort of way.

                And thank you for the kind words.

                [–]TheSecondApocalypseLúcio 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

                As a mainly Lucio player, this has a tremendous impact on my life because I seriously get PotG, like, every game. This is really just an effort to stem the overwhelming tide of Lucio highlights. WHAT ARE YOU HIDING MODS?

                [–]______DEADPOOL______Tracer 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                I seriously get PotG, like, every game.

                Explain how!

                [–]TheSecondApocalypseLúcio 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Explain how!

                I close my eyes and imagine really hard that I got play of the game. By the time the actual play of the game with Bastion or Toblerone has ended I just repress the existential sadness I inevitably feel, do a breakdance emote and knock a Reaper off the cliff at Ilios next game. Repeat.

                [–]lurkahol 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Woosh

                [–]Swole_MonkeyWinston 30ポイント31ポイント  (8子コメント)

                subreddit with Highlight, Fan Content, and Humor disabled

                who would want to go there tho?????

                [–]newprofile15 42ポイント43ポイント  (6子コメント)

                Just in case you want to suck all of the fun out of a VIDEO GAME and replace your user experience with dry "discussion" posts where backseat developers balance whine.

                [–]NotagingermanR34 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                So /r/leagueoflegends?

                [–]Swole_MonkeyWinston 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                LOL

                [–]itsarabbitprobably 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Hey look D-VA blew up the whole team when they were distracted.

                Hey look D-VA blew up the whole team when they were distracted.

                Hey look D-VA blew up the whole team when they were distracted.

                Hey look D-VA blew up the whole team when they were distracted.

                Hey look D-VA blew up the whole team when they were distracted.

                Hey look D-VA blew up the whole team when they were distracted.

                [–]ohmylanta1003She Fine! 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Those will stop getting upvotes...

                [–]idealreadditLúcio-Oh's! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Really bc they still haven't.

                [–]D3rpachuuu 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Guys look wow bastion got play of the game its so annoying remove bastion plz

                [–]idealreadditLúcio-Oh's! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Someone who wants to get better at the game..?

                [–]jamesisninjaChibi Pharah 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

                That's unfortunate, I really enjoy just being able to mouse over the highlights with my Imagus extension so I dont need to open new tabs, or change pages to watch clip submissions. I guess /r/Overwatch will move to the "browse at work" subreddits list

                [–]idealreadditLúcio-Oh's! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Who cares

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                If you expand the text of the post your extension should work just fine. Yes, it's an extra click to expand the post, but that's part of the reason we're making this change - we want to see how this effects content overall.

                [–]BluePrint4CloudsReinhardt 34ポイント35ポイント  (2子コメント)

                I really don't like this change. I feel like the filters are kind of there for a reason.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                We're seeing a lot of use with the filters but feel like we can maybe make some small changes to help out those who don't or can't use them.

                Let us know how it feels after a few days!

                [–]BluePrint4CloudsReinhardt 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I know you guys are working to make it a better place, props for trying something to try and improve things. I'll give it a few days but I'm not too optimistic haha.

                [–]Keitren 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Man, this sucks. As a primary mobile user I go off of the gif preview picture. And now that they are self posts I won't see it immediately anymore.

                [–]Neosaurus_Love Genji 56ポイント57ポイント  (11子コメント)

                I don't agree with this change. Its so much easier for people both on mobile and PC to just tap or click the link, and people get karma for their sick plays which they deserve. Not really sure how this helps the sub, but I guess we'll see

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

                It definitely makes it a bit harder to consume the content but that's sort of the goal of the change. The theory is that if we equalize the barrier for consumption (reading threads vs. just clicking links) it helps elevate the other content a bit more.

                I'm not sure how effective it will be but we think its worth trying out.

                [–]Cognimancer 28ポイント29ポイント  (3子コメント)

                It definitely makes it a bit harder to consume the content

                I don't think that should ever be a deliberate choice for content a sub (as a whole, not the vocal minority) is clearly enjoying. But even aside from that, I think hurts the goal of 'elevating discussion posts'. Sometimes I feel like finding a discussion, so (since filters aren't terribly reliable) I scan the top couple pages for posts without thumbnails. Well, guess what happens now? 90% of the posts I see when I'm looking for text posts will be POTGs. Not only are the gifs harder to reach when I want them, they're harder to avoid when I don't.

                I can appreciate experimentation, but this isn't exactly the first game subreddit to try this rule, and the ones that have put it into practice have generally just gotten more frustrating to browse and I've ended up unsubscribing sooner. That's my two cents.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Thanks for the feedback. It seems like the filter system would mostly resolve this issue for you. Are you not able to utilize it?

                [–]Cognimancer 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                It doesn't seem to work for me - I assume it requires you to use the subreddit's custom theme? I disabled those because I mostly browse game subreddits and those are too flashy to browse discreetly at work :3

                Maybe I'm an outlier in doing that, though.

                [–]Morrigan_Cain 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                They don't work on mobile either

                [–]jinriahHEALS ON WHEELS 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I agree with the original commenter, it makes it more difficult to view content as gfycat in particular screws up a lot on mobile apps (for me anyway) and won't open so I just click "open link in browser" and they work fine there. But with self posts I have to copy the url either manually or holding down the link (which doesn't always work) and paste it into a browser which is really tedious to just watch a gif. I get you guys want the sub to be more discussion oriented but making it more difficult to just watch gifs and therefore discouraging people from posting them in the first place because you think there should be more discussion posts is a little silly.

                [–]I_am_a_chicken2Pixel Genji -5ポイント-4ポイント  (4子コメント)

                I see a common trend starting that happen with the wow sub-reddit, all you need is one of the 2 power abusive mod cough deleting post that follow the rules but they delete because they don't like it personally /end cough

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Sorry you feel that the /r/wow subreddit is having that issue but I'm not sure how it relates to this topic.

                [–]I_am_a_chicken2Pixel Genji -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

                urm, i was on the mobile reddit and my wording got changed because of the auto correct, Let me try again,

                This is what happen with the /r/wow sub-reddit, they started the censorship stuff, and the sub reddit is kind of a bore now, when and if things on this sub reddit follow that trend so while this sub reddit, and for the other part im talking about seeing posts that are within the rules and on topic get deleted non of which where mine i need to point out, get deleted with a random copy paste response which doesn't fit the reason for closing said thread.

                and the reference to the cough part was thats what happen before a couple of the admins locked out the /r/wow sub reddit

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                If you're seeing posts deleted without a relevant reason please let me know or send it via modmail. Every mod gets modmail messages and there is no way to delete them. You make a bold accusation but I am happy to investigate the claim.

                [–]Flyingcodfish218Violence is usually the answer 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I don't think that's fair. The mods are taking a very small, very tenative step in an attempt to balance content on the subreddit. The post is an hour old, there's no hardcore corruption going on here. That's ridiculous. If the changes are as bad as many people think, the mods have made it clear that they will revert the changes.

                [–]Flyingcodfish218Violence is usually the answer 20ポイント21ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Mods, thank you for making the effort to balance content. The fact that you're making a trial period and calmly handling the flak you've already received shows that you're genuinely focused on helping the subreddit. Whether this change works out or not, I thank you for doing your job, and hope most of the community does the same.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Thanks for the kind words! We know that anytime we make a change to the rules or core functionality there will be some friction, but we're treating each and every piece of feedback with consideration.

                [–]ZeNubletD.Va 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                There is always going to be friction like you said however low effort things such as this usually will ran rampant if left unchecked. It ends up like /r/gaming and I much rather prefer /r/games.

                Thanks for doing this since I've basically just avoided the subreddit since it's nothing but potg highlights whenever I bothered to check.

                [–]lootboxPixel Pharah 6ポイント7ポイント  (12子コメント)

                Does this include any gameplay gif? Occasionally, I see gifs showing a bug or something, and they're tagged "Highlight" as well.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (11子コメント)

                A Gameplay Gif would qualify as a Highlight.

                [–]SuperSpleefSoldier: 76 7ポイント8ポイント  (10子コメント)

                So basically you are banning any gameplay gifs of any type? And making it harder for your users to consume the content of your sub? I don't see why you did this if people can already filter content they don't like, why harm the way people view your subreddit? Ridiculous over-moderation.

                [–]Le_Euphoric_Genius 24ポイント25ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Hmm, ok I guess.. But those POTG clips get like 5,000+ upvotes multiple times a day which means people like that content.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Agreed! One of the best explanations I've seen so far from a poster here was that even if its valuable, the fact that you can consume 10 Play of the Games in the time it takes to read or discuss a standard post rapidly inflates those threads to the top. Even if you're reading them all, it can tip the scales unintentionally.

                Our overall philosophy is to let upvotes and downvotes rule but we're not sure that a hands off approach is the right thing here. We think this is a pretty reasonable change to trial for a week.

                [–]SoFFacetTracer 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                those POTG clips get like 5,000+ upvotes multiple times a day which means people like that content.

                No.

                This topic has been discussed ad ad nauseam, over the past several years and on many different subreddits. It has been well documented that the amount of upvotes that a submission receives is dependent not just on how well it is liked but even moreso on how quickly it can be digested.

                This is due to both human tendencies (to prefer quick gratification and avoid walls of text) and reddit algorithms (rapid/early upvotes lead to escalating visibility, which leads to exponentially growing opportunities for upvotes, etc).

                Large subreddits without any curation policies are inevitably suffocated by low-effort content such as the deluge of potgs making the front page. Even extremely moderate policies such as are proposed in the OP are a big help.

                [–]KurpKurp#2308 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Exactly. I love how this discussion comes up in every single game related subreddit, and every single time someone is arguing "just let the voting system do its job".

                Here's Heroes of the Storm subreddit discussing it a year ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/3no9tf/banning_image_posts_has_hurt_this_subreddits/

                They never reverted it, and the subreddit improved a lot. Same as Hearthstone or Guild Wars 2. I love watching OW highlights, but this is absolutely the correct decision in order to improve the subreddit.

                [–]tremicc 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Everyone is so excited about this sub growing so fast. Then you fundamentally change a core reason that people are enjoying the sub. Why?

                Don't fix what isn't broken?

                When something important happens, like changes to the game or complaints about Mcree, it is still coming through. Now we will just have an increase in backseat developer whining and a decrease in POTG stuff, which is actually unique to this game and very succesful so far.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                We agree PotG is an awesome and unique element of the game and we don't want to eliminate it or hinder it too much. If this change doesn't bring forward more effective discussion we'll reverse the change or try something else.

                [–]necis_ 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I guess I'm in the minority of people who'd rather watch 10 seconds of someone doing something awesome as opposed to reading a whole bunch of bitching about how x hero is totes unfair.

                [–]EyefinaglerJunkrat 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Stupid rule. The game is too new to have actual discussion, and the discussion posts are going to be the same thing because of how small the eSports scene is in Overwatch compared to the variety of discussion posts on something like the CSGO subreddit (balancing, opinions, pro scene stuff, etc) I don't want to see the same thread every time with people telling me to protect the Mercy like it's some sort of special strategy, and all this does is make it harder for mobile users to see POTGs.

                Average discussion posts:

                PSA: Protect your healer!

                PSA: Don't do this obvious thing!

                PSA: A support and tank is a good thing!

                Opinion! (dont downvote): Does anyone else think McCree is overpowered???

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                This rule is part of the plan to help elevate some of the better discussion rather than the one-liner "discussion" threads. I understand your point and we're aware of that concern.

                [–]CivrockChibi Soldier: 76 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

                Not a fan of this change because I view the majority of media on Reddit via Imagus on Chrome. I don't even have to click on images or videos to view them, I simply hover over them. Personally, I just skip the majority of self posts unless the title is really catching my interest (which isn't often).

                If I see a fun/interesting/curious piece of media that I feel I need to read the comments on, or comment on myself, I do. I shouldn't be forced to open a self post to view media. This is very much backwards thinking. Just my 2 cents. :)

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Thanks for the 2 cents! We agree this adds a higher barrier to consuming and voting on this content, and we're interested to see how it will affect content during the trial run.

                I think you've hit the nail on the head of how easy it can be to flood the front page with quick and easy content versus meaningful discussion. We don't have any problem with Highlights being there, but feel like this just might help bring other content forward. If it doesn't work or proves to be too great of an inconvenience, we'll think of something else or just leave things as is.

                [–]CivrockChibi Soldier: 76 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                It's just the way it is with Reddit and media in general. Easily accessible/consumable and enjoyable content will always get more upvotes respectively interest. The only feasible way to counter this would be for Reddit modify the weight of upvotes on link/media submissions vs self posts/discussions, or give individual subreddits the ability to modify this formula to their liking.

                They may even have something like this in place already, who knows.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Yeah, it would be interesting if we had those kind of tools at our disposable, but we're pretty limited in what we can do. Ultimately we're not super interested in shifting the weight around on posts as much as we are trying to maintain a balance. It may just not be necessary or even effective.

                [–]CivrockChibi Soldier: 76 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Ultimately it's up to the users what they upvote or downvote, right? :)

                This just tends to be media more often than self posts, with the exception of major announcements (with rare deviations). But even those are usually via link posts and/or stickied promptly.

                [–]fibersnows[🍰] 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Disagree with this change. I see posts in every PotG thread where someone new discovered the game from /r/all and buy the game. I don't understand why we want to discourage the fun posts that most people come to this sub for. People are excited about this game and want to see cool plays, and half of all the "discussion" is all whining about teammates being bad or "PSA"s! And a lot of the PotG threads also have many gameplay elements or discussion so it's not like that's never happening either.

                [–]ruemenzo 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I am here to express my displeasure of this experiment. Mainly because I disagree with the premise, and I don't think you place enough value on the concept of the visual medium. I come here for the highlights more than the text posts. I feel like I can see real world examples of things I can pull off when watching 10 second clip, I get much more out that clip than most any other content on the sub. Most of the PoTGs give me ideas to try, and teaches me to watch out for other players doing something similar. Until the other content is able to deliver that same quality in a similar medium of effectiveness, I think this is a bad change.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I am here to express my displeasure of this experiment. Mainly because I disagree with the premise, and I don't think you place enough value on the concept of the visual medium.

                We place plenty of value on the... "concept of the visual medium" but I don't disagree that you may value it more than others.

                I come here for the highlights more than the text posts. I feel like I can see real world examples of things I can pull off when watching 10 second clip, I get much more out that clip than most any other content on the sub. Most of the PoTGs give me ideas to try, and teaches me to watch out for other players doing something similar.

                Awesome! We're totally in favor of letting that content stand and don't want to remove it from the subreddit. Glad to hear you enjoy it.

                Until the other content is able to deliver that same quality in a similar medium of effectiveness, I think this is a bad change.

                Noted. We're going to keep an eye on things and see how this change effects the big picture and content that may otherwise go unnoticed.

                [–]Frentese 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Why u do dis

                [–]dertigo 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

                What I don't like about this is that the mods are deciding what this sub is for instead of the users. The reason these posts are at the top is because people like them the most. If/When people get bored they'll stop giving them karma. For me the mods should be here to make sure people are civil, not attacking each other and not getting overrun with shit posts, not deciding what type posts should be popular or artificially decreasing their visibility. If we didn't want the posts to be the top posts they wouldn't have the votes to get there. The filters are there for people who want them.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                What I don't like about this is that the mods are deciding what this sub is for instead of the users.

                If you look around in this thread and around the subreddit, you'll see lots of people complaining about Highlights overpowering other content. We have to consider many factors outside sheer popularity when making any sort of change, but this one was initiated due to a vocal group of players making clear they'd like us to do something. We're trying something out that might help them out without being too much of a downer on the Highlights, but we'll see.

                The reason these posts are at the top is because people like them the most. If/When people get bored they'll stop giving them karma.

                I'm pretty sure you're right, but this trial will really help us make an informed decision rather than an instinctive one.

                For me the mods should be here to make sure people are civil, not attacking each other and not getting overrun with shit posts, not deciding what type posts should be popular or artificially decreasing their visibility. If we didn't want the posts to be the top posts they wouldn't have the votes to get there. The filters are there for people who want them.

                I, again, agree and we will see how this change actually ends up affecting the subreddit. We've been pretty hands off from the day this subreddit was launched and it continues to be our main philosophy. Just because we deviate one way doesn't mean we're turning our back on the other.

                [–]dertigo 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                If you look around in this thread and around the subreddit, you'll see lots of people complaining about Highlights overpowering other content. but this one was initiated due to a vocal group of players making clear they'd like us to do something.

                It might be the case that many people feel that way but when PotG gets thousands of likes those should out weight the vocal minority.

                Ultimately you guys (the mods) artificially altering which posts are shown is very uncool and I think it's overstepping. Just to be clear I don't have anything against you guys or the job you've done up until now, I just think upvotes should control what we see

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                It might be the case that many people feel that way but when PotG gets thousands of likes those should out weight the vocal minority.

                There comes a point where you have to ask if what the majority wants interferes with what the minority can enjoy. If you can take a slice from the majority to uplift the minority, would you do so? We're taking this time to see if that's a pipe dream or a possible reality.

                Ultimately you guys (the mods) artificially altering which posts are shown is very uncool and I think it's overstepping. Just to be clear I don't have anything against you guys or the job you've done up until now, I just think upvotes should control what we see

                We're very hesitant to make these kinds of rules so I assure you its being carefully considered. Feedback like yours is exactly what we're looking for, so thanks for stepping up and let us know how you feel after the trial has some time to take effect!

                [–]Zarathustra124 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Fuck that, now I need to wait for the whole comments page to load just to click a link. Filters exist, there's no need to force inconvenience on the rest of us.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                If you click on the "expand" button just below the thread title, it opens up the text of the post and you can then just click on the link in there.

                Appreciate the feedback regardless. We know its an inconvenience but we're evaluating if its a price worth paying.

                [–]Zarathustra124 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I'm on mobile, using an app. There is no expand button, just slow cellular internet.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                The good news is that the comments gathered via the API is a very small chunk of data, likely smaller than the very GIF you're trying to view. I understand it makes a difference though and we'll keep in mind this sort of impact to our users. Thanks for the feedback.

                [–]newprofile15 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Bad change. Basically just makes the sub less user friendly and discourages content submission. These changes never result in any more good content actually being submitted. The reason the front page isn't filled with a bunch of text "discussion posts" is because those posts are frequently redundant garbage. In cases where those posts are good, they make the front page anyway.

                So now you introduce a rule that harms the utility of the sub for the vast majority of the users. Hope this rule is rescinded soon before it chases away the community.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Basically just makes the sub less user friendly and discourages content submission.

                At the basic level, we agree.

                These changes never result in any more good content actually being submitted.

                We think it helps a bit as people are more inclined to post content if they think it will be read and discussed. That being said, we think there's lots of good content already, but not everyone is seeing it.

                The reason the front page isn't filled with a bunch of text "discussion posts" is because those posts are frequently redundant garbage. In cases where those posts are good, they make the front page anyway.

                We're not so sure, which is why we're running this trial.

                So now you introduce a rule that harms the utility of the sub for the vast majority of the users. Hope this rule is rescinded soon before it chases away the community.

                I think that's a bit of a hyperbole but we're going to keep an eye on things to see how it goes. Definitely look forward to your feedback after a few days.

                [–]Flyingcodfish218Violence is usually the answer 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                They did clearly say it was a trial period. Either way, /r/Fallout went self post only a while before the release of fallout 4 to contain some of the hype, and the subreddit is thriving. The change here in /r/overwatch is pretty close to the same thing, and I think it can help. Even if I'm completely wrong, I think it's fair to give the change a chance.

                [–]newprofile15 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                This subreddit is thriving as is, right now, in its current iteration. What is the "help" that this sub needs?

                It's maybe the MOST active gaming sub right now, it gets a ton of original content (and not just POTGs) submitted to it that make the front page, it regularly has text posts and discussion posts get to the front page, and it is probably the fastest growing gaming sub.

                The change not only discourages content submission but it also means the sub gets a ton less exposure on /r/all and any subscribers front page. Fewer top rated posts, fewer clickthroughs to the sub. End result - less content, less views, less discussion.

                There are too many confounding variables to really assess this change anyway - the sub would grow in subscribers regardless over the next few weeks even if there were dumber rule changes implemented.

                [–]Blargmode 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Rant incoming.

                You're just putting more and more obstacles in the way of convenient browsing. To start, /r/Overwatch is the slowest loading subreddit I've been on. This page took 8.16 seconds to load. In comparison, a post on a similar subreddit is half of that. And for reference I'm on a 30 Mbit/s wired connection.

                Then to get to the point. I use Imagus to view pictures and videos by just hovering the link. It's very convenient. And when used to that convenience, having to open up each post is really annoying.

                Same problem on mobile. In Relay for Reddit you can just click the icon and you'll get the picture/video displayed instantly. You're just adding unnecessary clicks and swipes.

                Sure I understand that you're trying to improve discussion here. But you're doing so by making the other parts worse.

                It's just gonna end up with people like me ditching the subreddit and be the second Widowmaker in every game.

                Rant over, thanks for caring.

                [–]ArabRedditorPharah 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                don't fuck this up, I would completely stop coming to this sub if it became like Dota league or csgo, I just don't care about esports, I like discussions but I hate purely text based subreddits

                [–]OrphanWafflesSymmetra 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Look, this is a bad change. Plain and simple.

                1. You are making content harder to view for a lot of people. On mobile it is incredibly annoying having to go through self-posts to get to a simple link of a POTG/highlight. On RES you no longer get a simpler way to view images. On vanilla reddit, it is still an extra step to get to the actual content. All this just to limit karma?

                We also have to consider protections from the tyranny of the majority.

                1. Wow do I not like that quote from /u/turikk. So essentially, you would rather appease to a smaller percentage of people and ignore what the majority of people want to see on this subreddit? There is currently /r/competitiveoverwatch where there are much more statistics and meta discussions. This is the subreddit people should go to for deeper discussions and such. The MAIN TITLE SUBREDDIT should be for popular content. People who don't play the game will come here to check it out and see what it's like. If they see a bunch of discussions of things they know nothing about, they will just go away. If they come and see some fun plays, fanart, some discussions, etc then it may increase their interest.

                2. If you really want to facilitate discussions, rotate the stickies more often. Don't do weekly specific hero discussions, do daily specific discussions. You can also mix in daily map discussions, comp discussions, etc. Then do weekly stickies for things like balance ideas, new metas, etc. This is how Mods should be using their power, not by hard-limiting content that people clearly are enjoying.

                3. Please realize how much things will change when Competitive is released and when the Overwatch pro scene grows a bit more. I urge you to at least wait to test this out until Competitive is released. The game has been out still for less than a month....of course there is more love for highlight clips and POTG. Let it naturally fade, don't take it upon yourselves to dictate what people can enjoy.

                4. Look at /r/dota2. This is a good example of a game subreddit. You have a good mixture of game clips, pro team information/drama, dank memes, cosplay, fan-art, shit-posts, Tournament discussions, and the occasional self-post. But realize that game has been out for awhile and took time to get to where it is. Their rules are not very limiting, as long as the content is related to Dota 2 itself.

                Tl;dr let the community as a whole dictate the content. If there really is a large demand for more discussions and less POTG/highlight content, let them speak with their efforts and up/down votes.

                Edit: A post from /u/scary_tree confirms it is ALL pics and gifs, not just highlights.

                At the current time it's all pics/gifs.

                [–]Darkness_SurroundingMercy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I completely agree. I'll definitely be spending a lot less time here. If I wanted to see the same "discussions" of "nerf Bastion, McCree OP, I hate Mei" every other post then I'd just go look at the Overwatch Facebook group.

                [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Look, this is a bad change. Plain and simple.

                I disagree that its just that simple. Look at the feedback in this thread and your own long reply. It's a complex issue and we're trying a simple change to see how it affects it.

                You are making content harder to view for a lot of people. On mobile it is incredibly annoying having to go through self-posts to get to a simple link of a POTG/highlight. On RES you no longer get a simpler way to view images. On vanilla reddit, it is still an extra step to get to the actual content. All this just to limit karma?

                No, we're not just trying to prevent people from getting karma. We're removing karma as an incentive, as one of the handful effects of this change. Some feel that image posts lead to people trying to farm karma rather than posting interesting content although you could argue karma is only granted when the content is interesting. Either way, it's just one aspect of the change.

                We also have to consider protections from the tyranny of the majority.

                Wow do I not like that quote from /u/turikk. So essentially, you would rather appease to a smaller percentage of people and ignore what the majority of people want to see on this subreddit? Sorry you're not a fan of the concept of creating rules based on many parties, not just the majority. I don't really know what else to say if this concept just isn't your thing.

                The MAIN TITLE SUBREDDIT should be for popular content. People who don't play the game will come here to check it out and see what it's like. If they see a bunch of discussions of things they know nothing about, they will just go away. If they come and see some fun plays, fanart, some discussions, etc then it may increase their interest.

                We agree. We don't want to see the front page just gameplay discussion or only a bunch of text posts. We also don't want to see 85% of the front page being just plays of the game. We're aiming for balance.

                If you really want to facilitate discussions, rotate the stickies more often. Don't do weekly specific hero discussions, do daily specific discussions. You can also mix in daily map discussions, comp discussions, etc. Then do weekly stickies for things like balance ideas, new metas, etc.

                We agree this could be an effective way of engaging discussion and its something we're looking at.

                This is how Mods should be using their power, not by hard-limiting content that people clearly are enjoying.

                We don't think asking people to do self posts instead of direct links is a hard limit on what kind of content they can enjoy.

                Please realize how much things will change when Competitive is released and when the Overwatch pro scene grows a bit more. I urge you to at least wait to test this out until Competitive is released. The game has been out still for less than a month....of course there is more love for highlight clips and POTG. Let it naturally fade, don't take it upon yourselves to dictate what people can enjoy.

                We're hoping for the subreddit to naturally gravitate towards this type of discussion but the trend has been the very opposite. We're implementing a slight change to see if we can nudge it one way or another, before we miss the train on being a place to discuss competitive play.

                Look at /r/dota2. This is a good example of a game subreddit. You have a good mixture of game clips, pro team information/drama, dank memes, cosplay, fan-art, shit-posts, Tournament discussions, and the occasional self-post. But realize that game has been out for awhile and took time to get to where it is. Their rules are not very limiting, as long as the content is related to Dota 2 itself.

                We looked at a wide variety of subreddits when we decided to run this trial and will continue to do so when we decide whether or not to keep the change.

                Tl;dr let the community as a whole dictate the content. If there really is a large demand for more discussions and less POTG/highlight content, let them speak with their efforts and up/down votes.

                We very much agree but wanted to try this to see if it would be a positive change.

                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                  [–]I_am_a_chicken2Pixel Genji 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  This is pretty discouraging.

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Could you expand on this feedback a bit? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

                  [–]cheami 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  Sweet. Harder to view content. Love it.

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  This definitely does raise the barrier a bit but we're hoping its a net positive change.

                  [–]hamoorftwMercy 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  While I fully agree with those rules, I think it's a little bit too early to enforce them. Overwatch is still relatively new, and there isn't much to discuss about it. No new content, no solid competitive scene and etc. People are still exploring the wide range of crazy scenarios that happen in this game, it's fun and exciting for them and for me.

                  There is so little to discuss about this game currently, maybe in the future when the game gets bigger, and a competitve scene has been established, then it's fine to enforce such rules to insure that kind of content doesn't dilute the rest.

                  [–]cfl1Till Valhalla 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  Because the filter system doesn't seem to be standard flairing, there's now absolutely no way to tell within my app (reddit is fun) whether a post will be a stupid joke, a whine, or a highlight clip. This has made it a lot less likely that I'll help process /new.

                  Furthermore, I suspect neither the mods nor the complainers have really processed how suppressing highlight posts, if at all successful, will affect the community. Each individual highlight clip, unlike 99% of discussion posts, is not divisive. If you feel like watching one, it will make you happy instead of pissed off. This has shaped the discussion and knowledge-filtering - and there's been a lot of it, though it's been in the comment sections of the 1000+ upvote clips - going on in the sub in a very positive way, because everyone has started from the shared bit of enjoyment that makes you more willing to tolerate the ridiculous thinking, lack of decent-MMR experience, ability to read prior discussions, or other things seemingly present in other people's posts that make large discussion forums (like the official boards) into cesspits.

                  Context is everything, and removing happy context surrounding discussion will poison it.

                  [–]fibersnows[🍰] 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Agreed wholeheartedly. I really like the positive vibe this sub has with the shared experience of awesome plays and having that as the jumping-off point for discussions.

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Because the filter system doesn't seem to be standard flairing, there's now absolutely no way to tell within my app (reddit is fun) whether a post will be a stupid joke, a whine, or a highlight clip. This has made it a lot less likely that I'll help process /new.

                  Yeah, this sucks. We're probably going to make a change that brings this functionality back, and will be discussing it this weekend.

                  Furthermore, I suspect neither the mods nor the complainers have really processed how suppressing highlight posts, if at all successful, will affect the community.

                  We spent a few months debating this change and decided to move forward with this 1 week trial. I'd never say we have the foresight to understand exactly how this will affect the community which is why we want to run this trial period to get some more data and insight. Even then, there's no way to say for sure, but we can iterate on changes to come up with something that is the best balance.

                  Each individual highlight clip, unlike 99% of discussion posts, is not divisive. If you feel like watching one, it will make you happy instead of pissed off. This has shaped the discussion and knowledge-filtering - and there's been a lot of it, though it's been in the comment sections of the 1000+ upvote clips - going on in the sub in a very positive way, because everyone has started from the shared bit of enjoyment that makes you more willing to tolerate the ridiculous thinking, lack of decent-MMR experience, ability to read prior discussions, or other things seemingly present in other people's posts that make large discussion forums (like the official boards) into cesspits.

                  That's an interesting perspective on it. I think overall the actual glut of Highlights itself has been divisive, with people opting to go elsewhere to discuss the game or opting out of the subreddit altogether. Is it clear a good chunk of users enjoy the way it is? I think so. Could we make a balance that works for both parties in a better way? We're not sure, but we're going to try.

                  [–]Watchful1Justice 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  I'll add my voice to the chorus of dislike. I honestly come to this sub primarily to watch POTG clips. I will often filter out everything besides highlights and sort by rising just to watch new ones.

                  I don't want to come to this sub just to read people's self posts complaining about stuff, or memes about the game. I understand the value of a one week trial period, but I would cast my vote for going back to normal afterwards.

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Thanks for the feedback. You're definitely a typical user who would be the most negatively impacted by this, and understand we're not trying to punish you or just make things worse for you. We hope that the other content on the subreddit can start to flourish with this change.

                  [–]honestly-tbhZarya 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Since the majority of the people in this thread are bitching about the change I figured I'd make it known that I think this is a great rule. Really helped curb the flood of low-quality content on /r/smashbros a while back; hopefully it'll do the same here.

                  Also, to everyone telling people to just use filters, filtering doesn't make more non-clip posts appear on a page, it just hides the clips. So if you filter out, say, highlights and fan content, each page of the sub will only have like four posts on it, which makes it a pain to browse and not an ideal solution.

                  [–]idealreadditLúcio-Oh's! 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Love this post, pretty much addressed all of my concerns about this subreddit which I think is pretty low quality right now in terms of content and discussion. This is a welcome first step in changing that.

                  [–]RussIsWatchinUPixel Mercy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Maybe this change should be attempted after the large Overwatch tournament this fall. Once we have our first "major" tournament, I feel like users would really enjoy discussing the meta game and different strategies. We'll have teams of people who will probably do more planning and strategizing as the tournament approaches, and hopefully some of that will leak into this subreddit.

                  There will be highlights of the tournaments of course, but I can guarantee that there will be a large amount of discussion on team dynamics and composition for the various maps.

                  [–]zUkUuRoadhog 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Unsubbed. What a dumb change. Makes everything TOTALLY inconvenient. Face it, most of the content of the game IS POTG, all you accomplish is making everything tiring to use.

                  Well done mods. You can pat yourself on the shoulders for destroying what made the sub so popular.

                  [–]phatladPixel Pharah 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  I never understand why the vocal minority makes it harder for people to get to the posts they like.

                  /r/hearthstone did it and that sub makes it harder to see the shit you actually want to see.

                  /r/homebrewing did it and that sub now takes extra clicks to actually see shit too.

                  dumb.

                  [–]Cheerful_ToeHEROES NEVER DIE 9ポイント10ポイント  (7子コメント)

                  of course, 10 minutes before i decided to finally post a gif highlight on here.

                  to be honest i'm not sure if changing them to be text posts will help stop them. i think a "daily highlights" stickied post would be a better solution.

                  [–]KurisuBakaChibi Widowmaker 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Same tbh, I just posted my first saved highlight and was redirected here.

                  [–]Ouroboratika_8Does a submarine swim? 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I feel like large swaths of reddit users don't pay attention to stickied threads. I usually ignore them. I don't like the idea of pointing everyone to a daily thread, personally.

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  The general feeling is that it will have a mild effect but it may be the only step we have to take. We'll see.

                  [–]Marcmcp01 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  Dumb move reddit

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  What don't you like about it? Care to provide any more verbose feedback?

                  [–]gabi1212Junkrat 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  This sucks! The one thing I like about this sub was coming in everyday and being able to quickly look at some plays. Why are discussion more worthy... This will just hurt the sub growth there is no benefit at all from this. There has been discussion upvoted to the frontpage when they are worthy now is just going to be people whining about this or that.

                  [–]onionknightpldReinhardt 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Who needs Karma anyways.

                  [–]i_says_2_mabel 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  I've always hated this rule subs implement. If you want to clean up the front page, there could be daily stickied PotG threads. It gets rid of them clogging the front page and it's way more convenient for mobile users to have them all in one place instead of having to open a hundred self posts.

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  We're considering a daily PotG thread as one of the options. I understand the current trial adds more work especially for mobile users and we're taking that into consideration.

                  [–]BakingBatman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Thank God! Maybe this sub can be something else than a karma farm. Maybe gasp intelligent discussion instead of the same PotGs over and over again.

                  [–]MalHeartsNutmegGenji 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  This is dumb. Makes them harder to view with RES. You can already filter them out. It stops people whoring karma but honestly who cares about that?

                  I see so many people bitching about all these PotG's but honestly what else are people going to post? There's no decent comp scene, a hero discussion is stickied to the top and the news is sporadic.

                  Nothing is stopping people discussion stuff there's just nothing much to discuss right now, so why cripple the only actual content you have?

                  [–]JessicaSc2 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

                  Who even cares about karma? This is a really pointless rule.

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

                  Many people do care about karma and the theory is that if we remove that "reward" we make it more likely to see discussion content versus just short links.

                  We'll see how effective it is!

                  [–]JessicaSc2 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

                  but I like PotG's...

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  Me too! We want them to stick around which is why we aren't banning them in any way.

                  [–]TwizzarChibi D.Va 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                  No, what you're actually doing is discouraging them in favour of more discussion posts when frankly, I find the discussions in the PotGs better and funnier than a self post discussion. There is effectively no difference - don't try and act like this isn't what you want happen

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  I am not denying that. What you said and what I said aren't exclusive, and they aren't the same. Banning is completely removing, unless you're referring to something else.

                  [–]TwizzarChibi D.Va 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  You say you want them to stick around yet you're discouraging PotG posts. You just don't want to use the word ban when for practical purpose it will amount to the same thing.

                  Also this rather arbitrary decision flies in the face a democratic process. There was no proper discussion about this, no review process, no representations - it is not enough you say there was a "vocal minority". If you look at election turnouts there's usually around 70% of people voting. That's 70% of people who have the conviction to go out and vote, but people who actively campaign and vocal about it wouldn't even count as 10% of that. You should have really set up a poll and canvass the population first

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  You say you want them to stick around yet you're discouraging PotG posts. You just don't want to use the word ban when for practical purpose it will amount to the same thing.

                  Can you post a Highlight right now? Yes? Then it's not banned. Yes we're discouraging it a little with this change. To say that's the same as preventing it entirely is ridiculous and you know that.

                  Also this rather arbitrary decision flies in the face a democratic process. There was no proper discussion about this, no review process, no representations - it is not enough you say there was a "vocal minority". If you look at election turnouts there's usually around 70% of people voting. That's 70% of people who have the conviction to go out and vote, but people who actively campaign and vocal about it wouldn't even count as 10% of that. You should have really set up a poll and canvass the population first

                  We're evaluating feedback in a way that we feel lets people see what the actual effect it would be. We've had bad experiences in the past with just soliciting feedback and getting overwhelmingly positive response, and then when the change actually took place, it was panned.

                  [–]alphasquidZarya 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  I don't like this change. Needing to click twice to see a clip, the clip not showing up in preview mode. Other text posts being mislabeled as highlights.

                  This sucks.

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Do you mean people are mislabeling their highlights as other content or stuff is being mislabeled as highlights? Users can correct their own flair but I'm curious if you're attributing malice.

                  [–]throwz6 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  No. Bad. Very bad.

                  [–]SpriteGuy_000Build 'em up. Break 'em down.[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Care to elaborate?

                  [–]Clamsaucetastic 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  2 of the top 3 posts right now are of the enemy team grouping up when there's a Zarya around. There's really not any skill to when that happens, you're just punishing a dumb mistake. Hopefully this will clean up stuff like this from the front page, and make me want to actually read a thread. That said, I'm worried POTGs are what's keeping this sub from being 90% passive aggressively complaining about teammates and disguising it as tips.

                  [–]newprofile15 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Just another step towards an endless stream of "PSA: Obvious Tip" and "Does Anyone Else Agree With This Redundant Balance Whine?"

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  We'll be keeping a very close eye on things.

                  [–]Komplex_Dad: 76 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  /r/GlobalOffensive does this with clips from pro matches, and I think it's a good change. It discourages posting every PotG you get for karma while still allowing for a lot of them to be seen.

                  [–]desi_drifter395 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  First, I've hated every variant of this that other subreddits have tried. It's a clunky fix at best. Second, as someone who reads almost exclusively on mobile, this is the worst change because now I can't just click on the post and have it load, and then be on my way. Absolutely disagree with this.

                  [–]GrassWaterDirtHorseSentry Gun 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  I'd like to say I agree with this change, since POTG spam annoys the hell out of me, but having to go through a self post feels like an unnecessary step that adds nothing to the discussion of that particular post. Yes, OP can add a small write-up about what they did, but wouldn't it be better to create a separate sub for all the POTGs?

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  We can certainly consider such a change but feel like we'd rather take a small but measured approach before we go down that route.

                  Yes, it adds steps - that is the idea. We'll see if its worth the effort.

                  [–]rockninGenji 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  This is pointless. It's fake internet points, all this does is make it slightly more annoying for the person browsing.

                  [–]CrazyToastWithButterUga Waga Tegi Nekuru 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Glad because of this it get rid of those People who just pop and Ult and have the Title be something like "She did not just" "Wait for it" "IS THAT A?" Clickbait is never a good thing

                  [–]BigBad01Mercy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Love this change.

                  [–]makobladeI need healing 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Thank you for this. I'm looking forward to seeing if this curbs the clip spam and lets us see some more actual discussion :D

                  [–]AlienWarheadHanzo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I liked the sub the way it was because r/Overwatchuniversity has all the discussion I want and I liked this one to be anything Overwatch and general. People complain about the clip spam, but they get upvotes and the subs are increasing, people will just complain about self posts now, complainers will just complain.

                  [–]LitaganoOverwatch? I used that in XCOM! 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  Well, we'll see how this change works. I like viewing the PotGs, and it would be a shame if this rule change causes them to go away.

                  That being said, I do very much appreciate how much you guys are trying to see both sides of the issue. One thing I don't really like about subreddits like /r/smashbros is that it's all mostly competitive content, and it's not that I have anything AGAINST competitive content (hell, maybe I'll find myself involved more in the competitive scene when I move out to college), but it's just that there's not much for a casual player like me. So it's nice to see you guys have casual content in mind as you experiment with the rules.

                  The majority of posts here seem to be against the change, but I do hope you will be able to find a good balance soon! You guys rock!

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Thanks for the kind words! We don't want PotG to go away and if that's the result we'll find something else.

                  [–]idealreadditLúcio-Oh's! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  /r/smashbros has lots of casual discussion

                  [–]Amardeus1Chibi Tracer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  So why not just have a sub reddit for potg?

                  [–]Jaghat 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Thank you!

                  [–]pootbert 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  A shame when mods go on a power trip. Let people post or talk about what they want (related to overwatch) that is why this subreddit is popular. It is also why the rocket league subreddit got popular, etc. People from outside the sub see these awesome gifs (from their perspective or otherwise) and they buy the game and sub.

                  The filter is plenty. It takes care of the loud minority and still appeases the gif majority.

                  I'm sorry to say for those who hate it, gifs are extremely important to mobile users especially ones at work.

                  [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  A shame when mods go on a power trip.

                  Let's not jump to hyperbole. I appreciate the feedback and we agree gameplay gifs are a great way to draw in new users, so we're very cognizant of how this change might affect that.

                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                    [–]JoeyRoCheers love! -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    I agree with this change. Most of the other subreddit I've seen that have implemented this change have had a lot more discussion, with only a few gifs sprinkled in between.

                    [–]Sutekhseth 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    No thanks

                    [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Care to expand?

                    [–]Sutekhseth 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Actually, it's the fact that I don't want to expand every single link just to see something possibly interesting. For those of us with Imagus or hoverzoom, or any of the others, I can just hover over the link and watch something instead of having to open every link individually.

                    RES does help by allowing me to open the discussion without having to open the thread in another tab, but I'd still prefer to have it available right there without having to do anything.

                    My $0.02 mostly just from laziness, but I still wanted to say that I am opposed to this.

                    [–]EcoleBuissonniereThe doctor is in. 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    RIP one click maymays :(

                    Seriously though, this change is awesome. I love you, mods.

                    [–]MoaningMyrte 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    The game is new so it's not surprising that posts are being buried with all the highlights.

                    If it is an issue though, why don't we just use something like /r/OWGifs - The GTA subs had similar issues and /r/GTAGifs helped mitigate that to a degree.

                    [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    That's an option but we're gonna give this a shot first.

                    [–]PurpledrankPixel Zenyatta 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Not sure what to say. I guess the quality should improve, but I still find all the disucssion I need by using the filter to remove PoTG videos. Now I'm concerned that all the masses who normally post in PoTG videos will flood the discussion with memes and other random comments that always detract from discussion. I think /r/competitiveOverwatch may be the the place to go now for discussion...

                    [–]el_pez_3I can't get this damned achievement! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I've filtered out Highlight posts since the second day the game was live. I hope this is a permanent positive change. We could have a PotG sticky or OverwatchPotG sub.

                    [–]DrizuWidowmaker -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    A lot of users disagreeing, but I for one am extremely happy to see this. This is the largest forum for discussion about the game, and it's kind of absurd that 75% of the posts are funny gifs. This will be good for the sub in the long term for sure.

                    [–]GregerMoekPixel Junkrat 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    There's already a filter for it though. Maybe they can make the filters more obvious instead.

                    Most "discussion" here is "DAE McCREE? WIDOWMAKER?" or "Hey 20 tick rate" or "PSA - basic tip"

                    [–]stardawgOG 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Thanks, while I love seeing Reaper twirl like a ballerina, there needs to be a better balance.

                    [–]SabrewylfRoadhog 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    With a filter already being in place, this seems like an unnecessary change. Upvotes are our curators. Plenty of people obviously prefer the clips or they wouldn't be so popular. And there are filters in place so people who want to discuss the ins and outs of the game can find each other's threads that way.

                    We'll just how the experiment goes but for now my opinion is 'pointless'. A more elegant solution would probably have been to implement a 5:1 comment-post ratio so you don't get jackasses that just come over to spam a highlight and then fuck back off.

                    [–]RHINO_Mk_II -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Mod team making irrational decisions with no regard for what the subreddit wants to see, as usual.

                    [–]turikkCSS Moderator[S,M] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I'm sorry you feel that way. I think it's pretty clear that we're trying to take into consideration how this pans out with this trial period but if you have a larger concern I'm happy to hear it. You can PM me personally, send us a modmail, or reply here.

                    [–]KonigSteveChibi Junkrat -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    I don't see the point. This won't change the types of posts that are being submitted but instead make them be presented in a more cumbersome format.

                    I think a more pressing and better change would be to attempt to promote streamable as the default submission type for highlights. They can be longer and have sound which is a huge part of the enjoyability of this game (don't worry those at work, it's very very easy to disable streamable sound on mobile while on the page)

                    [–]kokomo24GET OVER HERE!!! 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Rip mobile on bad connections/using data

                    [–]Party_Magician"Heroes never die" means if you waste this rez, you're no hero 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Loading comments through API is a small fraction of a gif/gfycat video's data

                    [–]Muphrid15Pixel Mercy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I hope you guys will consider or try out a daily/weekly highlight thread instead.

                    I've been around other subs with a self-post for images/videos rule, and to me, it just seems silly. It puts up a barrier to people posting and people looking to view these images and videos, and while that's part of the idea, I don't think a solution that involves people just not posting as much is preferable to them posting at the same volume just all in one place.

                    [–]HotlineHellwelcome to my reality -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    competitive already has a sub, why shove competitive stuff here?

                    [–]DashingCNPixel McCree 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Stupid Question but is there a way to download potg/Highlights? I'm on PC and wondering besides web recording if there is a way to do so.

                    [–]Ma5xyDouble support is best support 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Not currently, Blizzard has said it will come in a later patch.

                    コメントをもっと表示する (43 返事)