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2 Valedictorians in Texas Declare Undocumented Status, and Outrage Ensues (nytimes.com)

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[–]keepitwithmine 27ポイント28ポイント  (7子コメント)

I smell an invite to the White House coming for these fine folks.

[–]Scoutster13 45ポイント46ポイント  (50子コメント)

I just can't get behind punishing these young people because they were brought here as children with no control of their future. Seems to me both these kids did exactly what society would want them to do so attacking them makes no sense from my perspective I guess.

[–]Jabawocky 12ポイント13ポイント  (20子コメント)

Either the law applies to everyone or it applies to no one. Emotion only dampens reason.

Great, shes very intelligent and successful and will surely do well in coming to the US the right way and being an example to others how it should be done rather than flaunting how she beat the system.

[–]whichwitch9 14ポイント15ポイント  (11子コメント)

Legally, a minor is not responsible for the actions of their parents. A child does not have a choice where their parents choose to take them.

Also, there was another article that noted that she and her mother have been on a list for a legal US visa. For seven years now.

[–]rubber_chicken_sex [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

This is my main problem with immigration, it needs to be easier for people to come here to work legally

[–]F4Z3D [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

You realize we take more immigrants than any country in the world right?

[–]GeheimeStaatsPolizei [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Why? We don't need immigrants? It actually needs to be harder. We should only accept rich families with professional training. I'm sure there are thousands of doctors who would love to move here. We don't need anymore low class workers.

[–]rubber_chicken_sex [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You're right! There are a lot of people like that who want to come, but our regulations don't recognize their licenses so they'd have to go through medical school again...

[–]PreciousRoy666 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Can't tell if post is satire....

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    [–]dekuscrub 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Either the law applies to everyone or it applies to no one. Emotion only dampens reason.

    Until every single incident of jaywalking results in a fine, clearly we live in complete anarchy.

    [–]Jabawocky [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Until every single incident of jaywalking results in a fine, clearly we live in complete anarchy.

    I think this may be the epitome of a strawman

    [–]dekuscrub [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    It's an application of a principle ("Either the law applies to everyone or it applies to no one.") to reveal absurdity. Plenty of laws aren't enforced all the time. For illegal immigration, and for all other laws, selective enforcement does not mean that the laws "apply to no one."

    [–]ElectricVehicle [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    If people started getting tickets, jay walking incidents would drop dramatically. Only the biggest assholes would still jaywalk, and the fines would increase and lead to jail time if unpaid. It's a lack of resources that prevents this from taking place.

    [–]Edward_L_J_Bernays [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Either the law applies to everyone or it applies to no one.

    Then laws apply to no one, because everyday rich people show how they can get away with many crimes, same is true of the government that got away with torture and many other admitted crimes.

    [–]docmedic [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Either the law applies to everyone or it applies to no one.

    Or we can pick and choose depending on the case, as we have the power to:

    Judges rarely inform juries of their nullification power. The power of jury nullification derives from an inherent quality of most modern common law systems—a general unwillingness to inquire into jurors' motivations during or after deliberations. A jury's ability to nullify the law is further supported by two common law precedents: the prohibition on punishing jury members for their verdict, and the prohibition (in some countries) on retrying defendants after an acquittal (see related topics res judicata and double jeopardy).

    And if it becomes a pattern, then the stature needs to be in review. Yes, that some people through no fault of their own, are otherwise Americans, and it is reasonable to give them a path to legal documentation rather than drop them in a place they aren't likely to survive or succeed in. And the illegal status we have right now just costs us a part of their income taxes.

    Of course, you might disagree with this, but don't appeal to abstract notions of all or nothing.

    [–]wonkycal [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Going back to the country they came from is definitely an honorable option that they continue to ignore.

    Atleast lets not reward people for continually breaking our laws.

    [–]Moderate_Third_Party [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    So they should have ran away from their parents and tried to cross the border on their own?

    At what age should they have attempted this?

    (Hint: The Nick Denton response would not be appropriate here either)

    [–]mathurin1911 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    I just can't get behind punishing these young people because they were brought here as children with no control of their future. Seems to me both these kids did exactly what society would want them to do so attacking them makes no sense from my perspective I guess.

    Illegals bring their children because the US will give them a pretty decent education for free. If we stopped doing that, they would stop bringing/sending them.

    We have manufactured our own problem here.

    [–]ArkadiusMaximus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I don't think would solve the problem, immigration has been a problem since countries have existed.

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        [–]GeheimeStaatsPolizei [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        I honestly don't understand why black people aren't more angry at illegals. They harm the black community the most.

        [–]henryantrim 48ポイント49ポイント  (98子コメント)

        If they don't deport them them the laws mean nothing.

        [–]the_hangman 52ポイント53ポイント  (8子コメント)

        This will get downvoted to oblivion, but the law actually says that these kids aren't illegal immigrants. They did not choose to immigrate in the eyes of the U.S. courts because of their age at the time of entry, so they can not be illegal immigrants. They are usually referred to as either undocumented or living in the country without legal permission.

        [–]laith-the-arab 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

        They're covered by the dream act, correct?

        [–]the_hangman 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

        The Dream Act was never passed by legislature, but a majority of states that have large numbers of illegal immigrants have passed their own versions of it. In California, there is AB 540, which protects any students that have spent at least 3 years in a California high school.

        [–]laith-the-arab [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. I remember lobbying for it 5 years ago for a school project!

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          [–]TotallyKnackered 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Deporting these two girls would be pointless.

          Indeed, if I were in their shoes I'd fly back to their home countries now and apply for a visa. Since they've been accepted as students at prestigious universities they'll get a visa straight away.

          [–]Argos_the_Dog 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

          I agree. Not to mention, smart folks are the ones we want to keep here, even if they came under dubious circumstances.

          [–]shakeandbake13 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Keep in mind that one is a valedictorian in a school that has something like 30% of students proficient in english and 16% of students proficient in math.

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            [–]Dont_Be_Ignant [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Well established and agreedto international law requires that minors be appointed counsel before facing deportation, otherwise their basic international human rights are being violated.

            [–]Slimerbacca [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Where will they deport them to?

            [–]rubyaeyes -3ポイント-2ポイント  (8子コメント)

            its cute you think illegal immigrants are anything other than a political point in an election year.

            [–]the_hangman 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

            They're the boogeymen of this election cycle.

            [–]smile_e_face 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

            And the two before that, along with health care. And the two before that, along with terrorism. Probably a big deal in the Clinton 1.0 days, too, but seeing as I was in elementary at the time...

            [–]the_hangman 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Immigration reform has been a big deal in all election cycles since the late 80's -- but that discussion has generally centered around making it easier for people to gain legal status in the US so that we can unlock the extra $2 billion a year in taxes we could be getting from illegal immigrants.

            This year, it's become mass-deportation of illegal immigrants from Mexico because they're destroying America. This is a suggestion that would have led to a 10-point defeat in the general elections a mere 20 years ago.

            [–]smile_e_face 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Ah, I see what you're saying now. Definitely true. And is it really only an extra $2 billion in taxes? I know that's a lot of money, but on a national level, it just seems small.

            [–]the_hangman [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            There are only ~11 million illegal immigrants in the US, and they're working in low-wage jobs to begin with.

            [–]henryantrim 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

            No there are actually immigration laws. Thx for your thoughts though.

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              [–]Grond2016 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Their argument is flawed. I don't see the dreamers who flunked out reminding us that we paid for them too. So, like a typical BS media story, we only highlight the people who media agree with.

              [–]NoFunHere 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              http://www.ap.org/Content/Press-Release/2012/Reviewing-the-use-of-illegal-immigrant

              [–]smoochmybumper 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

              I don't have a problem with illegals who are law abiding and contributing members of society. It's the criminals and generational welfare recipients that we should be deporting.

              [–]PreciousRoy666 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Really, I'd rather live next door to these valedictorians than live next to Trump supporting citizens

              [–]GeheimeStaatsPolizei [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              By being here they all committed a crime.

              [–]GeheimeStaatsPolizei [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

              They are illegals stop withe undocumented bullshit.

              [–]element707 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Stoping illegal immigration and closing the Border was a big part of Bill Clinton candidacy in the nineties...and Hillary pushed for it too... not because it was an actual stance they were taking it's because that's what the people wanted and they'll say anything to get elected

              [–]Rice-Bean 23ポイント24ポイント  (49子コメント)

              “Valedictorian, 4.5GPA, full tuition paid for at UT, 13 cords/medals, nice legs, oh and I’m undocumented,”

              As the son of a legal immigrant who busted his ass in his home country to have the chance at coming to America the right way, fuck this arrogant little girl. Deport her.

              Edit: Sorry for triggering idealists but I'm sticking with a pragmatic approach. I'm obviously all for immigration. The right way. It's done wonders to our country and the culture, BUT THERE HAS TO BE A FUCKING BALANCE. There has to be some semblance of regulation on the influx of people coming to this country.

              [–]Pvt_MJCaboose 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Yeah we should totally deport someone who has promise to be an incredibly productive member of society because of something their parents did when they were 12

              [–]clarkkent09 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Laws should apply to everybody equally, even "productive members of society". I'm not saying she should get deported, just that being valedictorian should have nothing to do with it.

              [–]Cocoon_Of_Dust 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

              Hi. Legal immigrant now citizen here. You want to deport top students for simply stating that they aren't murdering rapists? Go fuck yourself.

              No. Really. Fuck you. The girl has an attitude of working hard to accomplish something in her life and your attitude is "she had it easier than me! fuck her!"

              A teenage girl. What the fuck is wrong with you?

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                [–]ElKaBongX 14ポイント15ポイント  (8子コメント)

                Bragging about doing drugs on social media will land you in jail. Why should bragging about breaking immigration laws be any different?

                If they are not deported this is just more proof that the laws in America mean nothing.

                [–]Cocoon_Of_Dust -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Bragging about doing drugs on social media will land you in jail. Why should bragging about breaking immigration laws be any different?

                I can't tell if you are being stupid on purpose or if you seriously don't understand the difference between flaunting that you are using an illegal substance vs. declaring that you are a dirty illegal who somehow managed not to rape or murder anyone, but in fact is a top student in school.

                Seriously, you're the type of person who would have jailed civil rights activists for peaceful protests. Cuz law > justice in your eyes.

                [–]ElKaBongX [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                So why have an immigration process at all? Why not just let everybody come right in? You have to draw the line somewhere and I choose to draw it where it already is... with the existing laws.

                [–]Rnotaloan -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

                Good analogy because Reddit loves the War on Drugs...

                Maybe neither should land you in jail because that's a totally inappropriate reaction.

                [–]TotallyKnackered -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Did I miss the arrest of Obama or Bush?

                [–]YouGotMunsoned [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                So why doesn't the INS deport her? She gave them all the info they need, admitted guilt, and yet she'll continue to stay here? What's the deal?

                [–]NQ10 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                "Haha and I've been here illegally the whole time you gringo fucks!" What reaction was she expecting?

                [–]mattkrueg -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I'm sure she's helping the terrorist organisation, La Raza, too. Nothing surprises me anymore.

                [–]Fundatame 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Should have said, oh and thank you America.

                [–]mattkrueg 6ポイント7ポイント  (13子コメント)

                Illegal is illegal.

                DEPORT

                [–]Einhander_pilot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I'm Mexican American and from the Austin area too. Fuck them! They're literally saying "HA HA I don't have to pay for school and all of you legal citizens are paying for my benefits!" Please deport them. My parents learned English, assimilated into society and came LEGALLY! I served my country and my parents take pride everytime they see me with an AMERICAN flag. I'll be damned before I wave a Mexican one.

                [–]SxeRpw 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I'd be outraged too if a criminal declared a law was broken and no one did anything

                [–]mathurin1911 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I'd be outraged too if a criminal declared a law was broken and no one did anything

                Yeah, imagine if a dozen tax cheats stood up and gave a speech, how many of the people defending this girl would demand their heads?

                [–]mathurin1911 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                “Being undocumented is part of her identity, as is being a Latina,” he said Thursday. He added, “For many undocumented people, this is our way of telling people that we are not who people think we are.”

                This is nothing like homosexuality, your accomplishments and personhood has literally nothing to do with your legal status.

                If Bill Gates, Bill Clinton and Mark Cuban all stood up and said "I evaded taxes" nobody would give them credit for their bravery, they would be arrested and imprisoned, exactly as they should be.

                “This young woman is not taking somebody else’s spot,” he said of the waivers. “She’s not getting special treatment. She is getting that because she graduated as valedictorian, and that’s how it is in Texas.”

                See, I remember when Texas enacted this, and they did it specifically to create a form of affirmative action. Because some of these schools valedictorians wouldnt be able to beat the middle of the pack at other schools. By giving the top X% of each high school guaranteed placement in Texas colleges, they are inherently kicking someone else out of the spot, that fact that its a law making this happen does not mean it isnt doing exactly that, it only means that the colleges have no say in it.

                [–]pfeifits -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Good for them. Can't blame kids for coming with their parents and they have obviously made the most of the opportunities they have benefited from. Pretty sure the colleges will make them get J visas or whatever they are now though.

                [–]Wonskee [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                So many idiotic comments in this thread. Being undocumented isn't some sort of perk or privilege that these students are boasting about; I could only imagine the type of insecurity and fear they have to go through while being able to perform academically well, given that they may not have the same career options available to them later down the line due to their undocumented status.

                [–]Threeleggedchicken [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                But, but I thought they will only take jobs that Americans won't do.

                [–]redb2112 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (18子コメント)

                Listen, are they in the school system's student database? Are there multiple data points including a phone number, an address, and a date of birth? Are they issued a school ID with their name and picture on it? That sounds like documentation to me. They're illegal immigrants. Stupid PC bullcrap.

                [–]TrumpSanders2016 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (10子コメント)

                who gives a fuck what you call them.

                [–]NoFunHere 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

                Clearly the people who lobbied for years to ensure the press stopped referring to them as illegal gave one, or there wouldn't have been such an effort to change the language.

                [–]BUILDHIGHENERGYWALLS -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Doubleplus ungood. You need to open your eyes brother, we're at war right now. It's the erosion of language. You control language, you control thoughts.

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                  [–]Trucks_N_Chainsaws 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  They graduated right? Send the parents back.

                  [–]Socio77 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Here is the problem; if you make any exceptions to law, or if you make rules involving its enforcement that are based on even narrowly defined distinctions, it is only a matter of time before people will be ignoring the law or its enforcement rules altogether because they will simply refuse to accept the difference between those exceptions or rules and everything else.

                  [–]chefdread -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

                  This fucking country was founded by immigrants built by immigrants so whats the problem

                  [–]GeheimeStaatsPolizei [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  They were legal.

                  [–]mattkrueg -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  These are illegal. That's the problem.

                  [–]youarebritish [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  We're also the descendants of illegal immigrants. Maybe we should lead by example and go back to Europe.

                  [–]CheapAsRamenNoodles [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                  Slavery was legal and women couldn't vote among many other things. Times change.

                  [–]Threeleggedchicken [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  So we shouldn't enforce immigration laws because it's [current year]?

                  [–]Goasupreme -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I don't think they should be deported, Trump wants these kinds of citizens.

                  However they shouldn't be flaunting the fact that they are undocumented and getting scholarships

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