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Why does the left invalidate the young? (self.socialism)

CianistarleThe worlds longest picket line が 投稿

I see so many comments calling people 'children' and accusing them of being teenagers.

Why is this? I spend my time working with 13-20 year olds and they are awesome.

I can only conclude that those comrades that are saying these things are young themselves. Maybe over 20, old enough to know things, but young enough to want to distance themselves from who they were 5-10 years ago.

Could you please stop that though? We desperately need young adults.

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[–]ghastly1302Libertarian/Anationalist 99ポイント100ポイント  (5子コメント)

Because Reddit is a place where if you are losing an argument,you accuse the other side of being a teenager.

[–]CianistarleThe worlds longest picket line[S] 46ポイント47ポイント  (1子コメント)

I know. It is an easy insult.

But why is that even a bad thing at all? Newsflash it isn't. Being young isn't a damn crime. Fuck all that ageist shit.

[–]ghastly1302Libertarian/Anationalist 42ポイント43ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know. It is an easy insult. But why is that even a bad thing at all? Newsflash it isn't. Being young isn't a damn crime. Fuck all that ageist shit.

Ageism is dangerous,just like authoritarian parenting is dangerous. We should teach young people to always speak out and correct them when they are wrong,but we should not put them down. I am a big fan of anarchist education.

[–]Mickhead 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not so exactly that simple. It's commonplace to see people on subs like this one, /r/circlebroke, and /r/latestagecapitalism call Trumpeteers and coontowners edgy 15 year olds. Have we been so stumped that we can now only make fun of their age?

I think it's less about winning an argument and more about trying to make the other side seem infantile, in an attempt to elevate oneself by discrediting another. It's the same type of stuff /r/KlanKidsInAction say about the spooky SJWs: they are simultaneously just some naive entitled college kids but they're also a vast media empire that controls all speech and thought.

Similarly, leftist communities make a tactical error when assuming reactionaries are childish young people. It can make some of us take a very serious threat not as seriously as it needs to be taken and, while it's fun to laugh at the dumb antics of the right, it's important to remember that a lot of conservatives are old, vote, have disposable income, call their local representatives, and believe their terrible views in earnest.

[–]FiscalCliffHuxtableLibertarian Socialism 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The exception that proves the rule.

I agree it's prudent to reserve judgment, but at the same time, some of these these childish, reactionary nincompoops are literally children.

[–]mushroompizza1 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

More like the entire internet.

[–]Minn-ee-sottaame too thanks 67ポイント68ポイント  (13子コメント)

Oh, hey, what's up.

I actually think comrades are good about not being ageist, it's liberals and reactionaries who jump to "lol you're a commie teenager!"

[–]Sergeant_StaticMarxist 39ポイント40ポイント  (10子コメント)

This has been my experience as well.

"Oh, you're just young and don't know any better. You'll grow out of your socialist phase once you get out into THE REAL WORLD."

I think they actually love the phrase 'the real world' even more than 'human nature.'

[–]cyvaris 19ポイント20ポイント  (4子コメント)

I love being told that Communism is only for unemployed college kids, especially amusing as I've been a teacher for four years and worked a retail job before that starting the day I turned sixteen.

[–]Unionist 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Right? And then you become envious and/or bitter because you're not as successful. In reality, I think trump-like rich folks are tacky as fuck and there isn't an ounce of envy in me. I just don't enjoy being exploited.

[–]cyvaris 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yep, I've heard that one as well.

"You're just sound like some who is bitter and salty because they are a failure."

Please, come teach middle school for a week and then say that.

[–]Unionist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

How is teaching future generations considered a failure? Sounds like STEMlord logic, frankly.

[–]Walnut_Uprising 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, but if you have a job and try to get by in a capitalist society, then you're a "hypocrite."

[–]Womar23 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nothing has made me a more ardent leftist than working in 'the real world'

[–]MarxismycopilotHoxha 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seriously. I was a commie since 13, but leaving home penniless needing to "pull myself up by my bootstraps" in the "real world" has strengthened and solidified my convictions. Now I'd make Stalin look like an anarchist if I could.

[–]isosceleswheel 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not sure exactly what the reason, but in my experience (I'm only 31) a lot of friends of mine have abandoned more radical political beliefs as they got older. I don't think its so much that they "grew out of it" or that they had some sudden revelation when they got exposed to the "real world", but I do think that working a job and being part of the system for awhile makes it more exhausting to carry around radical beliefs and exercise them when you are constrained by generating income, supporting young kids, etc. I think people in the teen - early twenties age cohort have far less to lose and have more of a luxury to take risks that we start to lose as we get older. So more cynical people will say "once you get older you will realize etc. etc." where in reality I think that what happens is the system just kind of wins by force and some people rationalize this by saying they "grew out of" their beliefs.

[–]Fillerbit 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some people will say this all the time whenever they lose an argument with a younger person. Whether it be socialism, atheism, or anything else. You turn more conservative and religious as you get older, don't 'cha know.

[–]DryZebraInevitable 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love how they speak so profusely about "the real world" when they also so heavily praise political philosophy that has extreme reliance on ideological abstraction.

If they bothered to read anything about Marx, one of the first things he decided was to find the root cause in the real world instead of relying on ideological abstraction of desert islands and vacuum transactions.

[–]AlatorrLibertarian Socialist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've also experienced this. I think this attitude is reflected rather nicely in the punk scene, where a lot of dedicated straight edge and/or leftist bands refuse to play adults-only shows and shows with high ticket prices, so that young people can attend them.

[–]TheSutphin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what my grandmother called me

[–]ForIvadellEmma Goldman 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not very old, but seeing people 5-10 years younger than me that are better read on the subjects than I was is pretty encouraging. Ageism is bullshit.

[–]Minn-ee-sottaame too thanks 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly, how are you going to sustain any sort of revolution without agitating the youth?

[–]NWG369Charlie Chaplin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, exactly. An informed opinion is an informed opinion, no matter the age of the person expressing it.

[–]ReleaseYourAnimusDid you see him repressing me? 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think its mostly from personal experience that so many of my friends think politics is all about aesthetics and merchandise, not about real content. This is something almost exclusive to teenagers, and honestly I can't really blame them for it [I used to think like that].

[–]TheLoudThoughtsAntifascist 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

And that's just capitalism taking on the trappings of leftism.. Every Che shirt I see makes me cringe. Liberals thinking their leftists..

[–]AlatorrLibertarian Socialist 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

When you're wearing a Che shirt, have a copy of the Manifesto (but specifically not any other leftist works), and are voting for Hillary Clinton.

Oh, the life of liberal.

[–]TheArchanjel_Austin 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, it's just like how the right believes "millennials" are incompetent, because they fear the day that the next generation takes over.

[–]tigernmasDaonlaṫas, Saoirse is Ceartais 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know I said some dumb shit thinking I was right as a teenager but if I hadn't said it out loud then and had it challenged and developed since I wouldn't be where I am now. There is a possibility that a younger socialist will have underdeveloped politics and maybe might not have figured out the best ways to convince an adult of their position through lack of experience but you don't get experience by shutting up.

The sooner you get stuck in and the manner in which you get stuck in affects your development more than age. And I know there have been some very intelligent and knowledgeable comrades who I was surprised were much younger than me. Age is never a good excuse to put down younger comrades.

[–]cyvaris 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not just comments. My neighbor, who I have always thought of as pretty progressive, was very condescending to me when discussing the Democratic Primary. Supporting Sanders? Ohh yeah, she remembers what it was like to be "young" as well, now fall in line like a good little boy.

It's really weird to be honest and I encounter it everywhere. Got into a nice squabble with someone on Facebook who told me "only young, unemployed college kids like you endorse Communism."

To me it is very clear that the "Left" as a general establishment in the US has grown old and complacent. It needs to be replaced and soon.

[–]TheLoudThoughtsAntifascist 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Baby Boomers are pretty awful. They had a crazy five years in the sixties and have deluded themselves into thinking they changed the world. Most of the Hippies sold out, man. I guess they planted the seed and mistook the sapling for the tree and grew complacent, so credit where credit is due.

I honestly think the Boomers may be the most entitled generation. I guess all us Xers and millienials need to remain vigilant.

[–]LePhilosophyDefenerCommunist in theory 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because leftist politics seems to run on fumes and angry denunciations of each other.

[–]GodfreyLongbeard 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because if you're not a liberal when you are young, you're heartless. If you're a liberal when you're old, you're brainless. Or so the saying goes at least.

[–]NWG369Charlie Chaplin 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Which never made sense, because the Bushes and Palins of the world were certainly not known for their brains.

[–]KarmaUK 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also, most of Fox News' audience is over 60.

Don't have the figures, but in my experience, the Daily Mail is the same, I almost never see an under 60 person buying it.

Which is interesting, seems it's lazy scroungers living on benefits and never doing any paid work, who are the main customers of the Daily Mail. (Of course I don't mean that, just using the language of the Mail against their own.)

In response to the main tread however, people dismiss the young, I don't believe it's a left/right issue.

[–]MortRougeRead! 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's, besides what people here are already saying, part of wanting to deny the trope critics of socialism often put forth:

"You will grow out of communism when you're older."

Teenage socialists are often a reminder for people of a stereotype they want to distance themselves from.

[–]mittim80 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not a socialist thing, it's an Internet thing.

[–]steeveperry 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a means of invalidating an argument. No one argues on the merit of a point. It's all about attacking the validity of a claim because then you don't have to disprove logic. It's lazy argumentation.

[–]Earnin_and_BERNin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because by invalidating others, some believe that they can validate themselves. Attacking age is simple because those with life experience seem to be "superior" to those that try to learn from the mistakes of others.

[–]thesassysocialist☭🎶marxism leninism maoism🎶☭ 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Ageism is cancer.

It's annoying when people are like "LUL UR JUST AN EDGY TEENAGER COMMUNISM DOESN'T WORK!"

Like fuck off reactionary, up against the wall.

Edit: not talking about any people here.

But seriously. Don't Insult someone's age. Makes you sound like a dick.

[–]Lord_Storm_CrowDemocratic Socialism/Left Libertarian-ish/Not 100% sure yet 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Like fuck off reactionary, up against the wall.

OP was talking about within the leftist movement(real leftist, not liberals). Not sure why your getting downvoted for simple mistake though. . .

[–]thesassysocialist☭🎶marxism leninism maoism🎶☭ 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–]Grigory_VakulinchukA World to Win 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Probably talking about walling people for ageism...but you know.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[–]onlyordinarymen/r/StirnerForPresident 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

\ Here you go comrade!

[–]Hippicac 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

The results I see from your survey is that this sub is mostly mid to young teenagers. They do not have jobs they do not belong to proletarian organization and they maybe live with their parents. While youth can experience capitalism and classism and while the youth can educate themselves and read without actual practice and involvement with the working class and the groups what can a youth say?

[–]Minn-ee-sottaame too thanks 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The youth are going to be proletarians unless revolution happens very soon. Giving younger comrades class consciousness ensures that when they are proles they'll come in already knowing their exploitation and how to defeat it.

[–]kickstandJust some guy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why do you generalize a few reddit comments on a single thread to a slur on the entire leftist movement?