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Pan sexual and sex positive (self.GenderCritical)

EbeflAntiRegressive が 投稿

I'm middle aged and noticed these two terms on the web a few years ago. I didn't think much of it at the time and just throught they were the rad new terms that young folk were using to be cool.

Then I noticed some MTT describing themselves as 'pansexual' and 'sex positive' and just started thinking about these words. I might be wrong but I sn't 'sex positive' something of a bullying term? If you don't agree with whatever then you're 'sex negative'?

And 'pan' sexual? How is that different from 'bi'sexual?

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[–]nofreenamesleft 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

I hate the term 'sex positive' when it's used to imply that it's unnatural, repressed, or bigoted to not be into every kink that someone has thought about. Some acts can hurt, embarrass, and traumatize when a participant doesn't like them or something goes wrong. Is it 'sport negative' if you don't want to dive in underwater tunnels or backpack across Siberia in the winter? No, it's just cautious.

Being expected to do anything a boyfriend asks isn't much different from being expected to always be willing to have sex with your husband (legal marital rape). The difference is that the boyfriend/fuckbuddy won't support you if you get pregnant (and don't want an abortion or can't access one). Sex positive is a huge victory for men who want all the sex with none of the responsibility.

[–]kickinheadWretched creature 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Plus the added bonus of being able to turn around and shame the woman for whichever choice she makes.

[–]LilianH 13ポイント14ポイント  (9子コメント)

It's not different. I once saw someone once describe it as a hipster way of saying bisexual which is appropriate. The word has actually been around since the early 20th century but originally referred to the idea that the sexual instinct was the driving force of all human activity and had nothing to do with someone's sexuality as such. It was revived recently and given a new meaning when bisexual wasn't special enough (and had too much baggage).

Sex positive means pro-prostitution and pornography.

[–]Ima_NewbieBut I'll Catch On! 14ポイント15ポイント  (5子コメント)

Sex positive means pro-prostitution and pornography.

'Sex positive' is such a ridiculous term for what it describes. A better term for it would be "victimization-positive" or "abuse-positive."

'Sex positive' sounds like it should mean 'I like sex' and 'sex negative' should refer to those that are asexual.

[–]LilianH 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

It almost seems like the term was created on purpose to slip under the radar. I very much doubt many people calling themselves sex positive even know what they are actually promoting.

[–]bicycling_elephant 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

It reminds me of things like G.W. Bush's "Blue Skies" law that loosened environmental regulations on coal plants, etc, and let them pollute more.

[–]Ima_NewbieBut I'll Catch On! 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I suspect you are right. I heard the term long before I knew what it meant. Therefore I thought it was healthy for someone to be 'sex positive.' I mean, it sounds like such a good thing right? (Positive = Good!)

[–]EStarwind 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I am bisexual and I think there is a distinction. I am not interested in a sexual relationship with a trans man or woman and/or someone with an overly androgynous appearance while a pansexual person would be.

I agree - the exhaustive list of evermore bizarre terms to describe every orientation, kink, and fetish has become absurd - but I think the distinction is appropriate in this case. I really don't think I'm splitting hairs here. "Pan" does not describe my sexual orientation, and bisexuals are common enough that I don't think I'm acting like a special snowflake.

I do sometimes wonder what the hell pan is supposed to encompass, but I definitely don't see it as equivalent to bisexual.

[–]LilianH 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's only really a distinction if you accept the idea that there are more categories of human than male and female (and extremely rarely intersex). There are a lot of people I wouldn't be attracted to either, but that doesn't mean I have to create a new category of sexuality to describe my personal preferences.

[–]languidswanThe Big, Bad She-Wolf 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

If there are 2 sexes and sexual attraction is based on sex (doh), then there are 22 possible mathematical combinations: attracted to both, attracted to a, attracted to b, and attracted to none. If you're interested in both sexes but not in trans people or androgynous people you're still bisexual, just as I'm a lesbian who can for example not like lawyers. That doesn't mean I need a new term, attracted to female non-lawyers, it means I'm a lesbian with a preference just as you are a bisexual with a preference.

What I've seen people say is that the distinction between pansexual and bisexual is that a bisexual person still takes the sex of the person into account, even if they are attracted to both, and a "pan" person doesn't care about your sex at all, and they are attracted to "personalities" and apparently don't respond to sexual dimorphism (which is of course crock of bull because it's called 'sexual orientation' for a reason). So they are pretentious bisexuals basically.

[–]Tegretol 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

Pansexual means a person is attracted to all gender identities, basically. You can't call yourself bisexual anymore because it excludes trans people and how dare you not want to sleep with a trans person?! Which is ridiculous because if calling yourself the opposite sex is apparently the same thing as being the opposite sex (spoiler: it isn't) then there should be no problem with the term bisexual.

Sex positivity just reinforces the patriarchal status quo but it is spun in a way that makes it appear to be feminist and beneficial for women (spoiler: it isn't) and if you point that fact out, well, you're a slut shamer! Or whatever. It's just some bullshit.

[–]EbeflAntiRegressive[S] 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

So aren't trans people somehow 'reinforcing the binary' as well somehow? Ugh I'm confused.

[–]owmygenderfeelsAssigned two legs at birth 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trans people can do whatever they want even when it contradicts their own ideology because no one's allowed to criticise them.

[–]little_red_lion 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trans people have created a new binary: Trans vs Cis, while at the same time reinforcing the old binary!

[–]Tegretol 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, they are. Good luck getting them to ever acknowledge it though.

[–]bentflower 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sex positive (at least in the tumblr sense of it, which is skewed) can also mean being fine with all kinks/fetishes. Which can enforce patriarchy as you say, especially with things like ddlg.

I've heard some people use it to describe what it actually sounds like. You know, like "yeah, have sex before marriage if you want to! Get protection if you want it! No to abstinence only sex ed!"

I don't think they realize that "sex negative" feminists also like those things?

Side note: I hate the pan/bi debate and it is 100% of the reason I've started just saying I'm queer.

[–]owmygenderfeelsAssigned two legs at birth 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Bisexual" isn't allowed anymore because it supports the "gender binary", lol, so bisexuals have to call themselves "pansexual" lest they be bigots. Meanwhile, homosexuals have to be bisexual now lest they be bigots.

And yes, "sex positive" is a bullying term. Even in my libfem days I hated that term for that reason. If you make any criticisms of the porn and prostitution industry, you're "sex negative" (ie. a prude)! I remember this concern was repeatedly raised on Feministe and/or Pandagon and the response every time was to acknowledge that yes, it was a problem, and then to just keep using it anyway as though no one had said anything. Respectful!

[–]Lethophobic 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

In The Optimist's Online Vocabulary, someone's describing themselves as pansexual and sex positive means that, through much practice, they have become ambidextrous while watching online transporn.

Their Facebook and GoFundMe pages will prominently feature The Optimist's Online Vocabulary term, "game dev."

[–]endoftheliner 21ポイント22ポイント  (4子コメント)

Then there is that braggadocio attitude "young folk" have that they invented sex and we don't know shit.

We old people never did anything that these young folk think they invented, doncha know.

Pansexual also covers attraction to trans and "gender fluid" people, not just females/males. So, a female who "identifies" as a lesbian could say she's pansexual and attracted to MtT (horrors!). It really gives permission for people to say they're anything and attracted to anything, sexually. To my mind, there are a lot of sexually confused people out there, mostly on the internet, if I'm correct. They all seem to be on social media anyhow. It's hard to understand if they have any firm beliefs at all, which I tend to think they don't, since they haven't lived long enough to form them. If they're seeing some of their "role models" in the same people we criticize, I feel pity for them.

IMHO, anyone who says they're "sex positive" and doesn't actively put themselves into prostitution and pornography, is a hypocrite. If you think it's good, why not do it? The thing is, mostly females are the product and males are the consumer; there is more danger all around for females who die at a high rate in servicing male sexual demands.

The jackals and opportunists appear to have taken over the minds of our young people and must be fought. Having an "open mind" without critical thinking is a recipe for disaster, and that's happening with a lot of young people.

[–]newgcf 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Your comment about them not having any firm beliefs makes me think of this one guy I know who is the quintessential pansexual, sex-positive, male-feminist, narcissistic misogynist. He used to argue with me a lot about religion before he discovered I was a TERF(another benefit of being GC, yay!), just randomly bringing up the same stupid questions out of nowhere every couple weeks.

And there was this one time when he told me he had decided to become a wiccan. I asked him a few questions about it to be polite, and he reveals that he doesn't really believe in multiple gods, but he felt the lifestyle/beliefs gave him permission to do whatever he wanted. Me: Ok, so why not say you're an atheist and do whatever you want? Him: See, I knew you'd object to this as a Christian.

...And I feel like I need someone to explain that response to me, but point is, I think now that this is all part of the new search for meaning and identity in their lives. Our culture has become so wrapped up in individuality that we need constant validation. They need labels to be able to attach themselves to the right community, but have to keep coming up with new ones to maintain their individuality. The result is this contest between increasingly shallow and self-absorbed individuals who somehow convince themselves that both "everyone agrees with them", and "they're the only ones that know the truth." Yet, there's no substance behind any of it, just endless self-promotion.

Kinda rambling now. It's hard to "like" people like this, but very easy to pity them. Social media and the "news" certainly aren't helping, and I wish I knew what the solution was. Isolated by the constant connectedness.

[–]blakeandavon 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Our culture has become so wrapped up in individuality that we need constant validation".

Preach it. Thats it in spades. I want to ask these people: "Where do you see yourself fitting into the wider society? How do you see your obligations to younger people coming behind you?"

Its what makes me angry about the fat-positive types who say you have no obligation to look after your body. You do, you absolutely do, have an obligation to think of the role you play and the standard you set, not to mention throwing away good health is such a slap to people struggling with serious conditions.

Of course you have the God-given right to do it, but to ask for respect for it is going too far. Its not worthy of respect.

[–]newgcf 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Where do you see yourself fitting into the wider society? How do you see your obligations to younger people coming behind you?

Absolutely, we've complete lost touch with that in a societal context. Respect should be given for what you've accomplished, what you've done to improve society or to make other people's lives better by being in it- not for who you are or the labels you have. That's selfishness and entitlement.

[–]blakeandavon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know you were exactly the same when you were young people. As was I.!! Its hilarious, really. But its not hilarious to see young women unpicking 50 years of feminism, because older women did the work so it must be no good.

[–]MellowMickSnowed 13ポイント14ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think the term "pansexual" is ridiculous. Pan means everything, as in global right? Or do they mean Pan in one of the other senses? Like the half-goat diety? Or like teflon cooking wear? Or in the sense of criticizing? I'm assuming it's the global one.

Oh, you're so open minded that you're attracted to everyzing?

The elderly? I really don't hear too much about how sexy and exciting geriatrics are. It's always a bunch of young adults barely out of their parents' house. IF they're out of their parents' house. Pre-adolescents? Fucking gross. Animals? Pile into the barn! Inanimate objects? At least it wouldn't hurt anyone. The dead? People who haven't been born? The comatose? The incarcerated?

It's so incredibly nonsensical to even want to claim to be attracted to everything, but it's so perfect that they would pick a term that wouldn't make any actual sense and then pretend it makes sense... I just can't even.

[–]endoftheliner 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's as ridiculous as this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pan_goat_MAN_Napoli_Inv27709_n01.jpg

[–]MellowMickSnowed 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

And of course that's a thing!

[–]GCnewbreality is transphobic 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Y'know, even with the url I wasn't expecting that.

[–]owmygenderfeelsAssigned two legs at birth 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

LOL! As soon as I saw that link I thought, "It's that statue isn't it." Can you imagine the amount of time and effort that went into that? Just... why?

[–]Lethophobic 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't remember which American comedian used this line (Ron White, maybe?) but I think it explains a lot:

We were talking about when we were young and my friend said back in his college days he'd fuck anything that moved. I said I hadn't been that choosy.

[–]wearstoomucheyelinerhomosexual lesbian 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pansexual can be different from bisexual, in that many people use it to describe some sort of a theoretical or philosophical perspective towards sexual orientation, even if they've only ever been attracted to one sex. Sometimes non-bisexual people use it to state some sort of belief that gender and sex are subjective and shouldn't matter in terms of who you are attracted to.

[–]onlygrey 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

A few years ago I've seen pansexuality been used by bisexuals who didn't differentiate between sexes in their attraction. For example: Bi: I like tall males, but short females. Pan: I like tall people.

Now it's just snowflake bisexuals and bi who don't want to be called "bigots" etc.

Sex positivity mean promoting women's sexuality, while not challenging patriarchy. For libfems it's easy to do and men get the boners, so it's win-win situation for them.

[–]NEVADAtan -5ポイント-4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Pansexual and bisexual are the same. Bisexual means "my gender and others", not just two. The term pansexual was created to be separate from stigma attached to the term bisexual because of biphobia. Only dilutes the fight.

Also, reject a person JUST for being transsexual is transphobia, is not a bisexual thing.

[–]stoptransingkidsSurfing the Crimson Tide 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

'bi' = two. Bilingual = two languages. Bicycle = vehicle with two wheels. Bisexual = attracted to two sexes.

[–]onlygrey 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bisexual means "two sexes" as in into both males in females. It's not even transphobic since MtTs are still males and FtTs are still females.

Term "pansexual" was "created" to bully bisexuals.

Rejecting person for whatever reason means you aren't attracted to that individual. You can't tell people who they should sleep with.

[–]EbeflAntiRegressive[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

What's biphobia and who is biphobic?

[–]onlygrey 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Negative attitudes (like discrimination) towards bisexuals that aren't covered by homophobia.

Sadly, that means that most of biphobic people are homosexuals since many straight people don't differentiate between the two.

The easiest example of biphobia would be a denial of an existence of bisexuality.