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Affiliate links on Reddit (self.announcements)

starfishjenga[A] が 投稿

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[–]ANAL_GRAVY 89ポイント90ポイント  (72子コメント)

This is misleading at best! Unbeknownst to the user, they are being passed through a third-party (called VigLink), given a cookie and having their IP address and other details logged and passed to other companies.

As you pass through their site, you are subject to their policies and marketing.

/u/starfishjenga has said Reddit userdata is exempt from this, but this is for items like your email address. The page you came from, the page you are going to, and it certainly cookies are being added by Viglink to your browser and shared with other sites, advertisers and marketing companies.

The user won't know about it, especially since Reddit are going to clickjack the link, so unless you examine the Javascript (or you read this) then you'd have no idea this was happening. HOVERING OVER THE LINK WILL TELL YOU NOTHING AT ALL. Originally it wasn't even going to be put in the Terms or Privacy Policy either.

If /u/starfishjenga would like to answer this, how are their legal terms and conditions are invalidated for Reddit users? To what extent? What threshold causes users to have to agree to it? Does visiting their site change this? How will Reddit stop them storing user cookies? I asked you a week ago - and you stopped responding.

Viglink's Privacy Policy is fairly clear. If you have any concerns I suggest users read it, or block their site.

I assume we're meant to agree to this without having seen it linked anywhere officially in Reddit T&Cs:

"When you interact with us through the Site, we receive and store certain additional personally non-identifiable information. Such information, which is collected passively using various technologies"

"Examples include IP addresses, browser types, domain names, and other anonymous statistical data "

"We may use personally non-identifiable information and pool it with other information to track"

"VigLink ... may use first-party cookies ... and third-party cookies together to inform, optimize, and serve ads on sites across the Internet based on someone’s past visits to the VigLink website. These ads, often referred to as “remarketing,” may be personalized using information inferred from their behavior when visiting VigLink’s website"

TL;DR: (sorry for length)

Reddit might not be providing our details directly, but by masquerading and click-jacking links, they are sending all of us through a third-party site who is collecting our IP address and other data.

They are also using this data to see which sites have people have gone to, and storing cookies to be able to connect these visits together. Despite not having personal information such as email addresses, this is still tracking data, and we are agreeing that this is being shared with third-parties.

Things have changed at Reddit. It's not some friendly site. It's all about your data and the profit that can be made from it.

Do remember that this is just days after the /r/politics censorship - where Reddit admins asked their mods to remove posts.

I'm not sure this is a good direction, /u/starfishjenga. Even if that is compensated by a few cents coming in from people linking to eBay.

I really hope Reddit will reconsider.

[–]starfishjenga[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (71子コメント)

Good to see you again /u/ANAL_GRAVY. As you know, these concerns have been addressed here - https://www.reddit.com/r/changelog/comments/4ldk0r/reddit_change_affiliate_links_on_reddit/d3nhkem

[–]ANAL_GRAVY 23ポイント24ポイント  (70子コメント)

Ah, I'm glad you remember me.

However, it seems you constantly miss a few questions out! Perhaps you could answer them?

You could scroll down on that page - you'll notice that I asked them twice, but you didn't respond!

Or they're copied into my comment above too!

Or they're here as well, if that helps:

How are their legal terms and conditions are invalidated for Reddit users? To what extent? What threshold causes users to have to agree to it? Does visiting their site change this? How will Reddit stop them storing user cookies?

I asked you a week ago - and you stopped responding.

[–]starfishjenga[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (69子コメント)

I don't really have anything to add beyond what I already said here. As I mentioned, contract terms supersede their terms and conditions.

I'm not a lawyer, but perhaps a lawyer friend of yours could clarify this for you?

[–]ANAL_GRAVY 0ポイント1ポイント  (65子コメント)

You are representing Reddit aren't you? Do you not know your legal standpoint on this?

It seems you are suggesting that I can visit Viglink's site and they will not put cookies on my machine, because I have been to reddit.com first.

Is that what you are saying?

[–]starfishjenga[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (46子コメント)

I'm saying that if you click through on an affiliatized link, it will go through Viglink. Viglink will not cookie you and will not store data as a result of you passing through their server.

[–]9764318264 17ポイント18ポイント  (15子コメント)

so what information about us does viglink store? or are they the only adtech company in the history of the internet to not track such things?

[–]prodiver 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Viglink will not cookie you and will not store data as a result of you passing through their server

I don't believe that.

Without a cookie (or tracking of some sort) how does the merchant track the affiliate sale?

It's simply not possible to credit an affiliate for a sale without marking the customer as referred by the affiliate in some way.

[–]Mista_Wong 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because it sends you with reddit's affiliate link. You click a link and it goes to Viglinks processor. So something like www.example.com goes to www.viglink.com/123hasdjadbvabsdv123123 or some thing like that. That then turns the link into www.example.com/?referral=Reddit or whatever their referral code looks like. The site you're going to obviously stores data, reddit isn't saying it doesn't. But Viglink doesn't store any data.

[–]ANAL_GRAVY 2ポイント3ポイント  (16子コメント)

How is this done? To what extent? Is it a special link or a cookie or a referer header? Some people block these, so it is important to know.

What stops other companies from using this? What threshold does it stand to? If I go back to Viglink after will they cookie me?

You might think these are new questions. They're not. I'm asking you exactly the same things over and over again, in different ways.

I wonder why you won't give a straight answer?

[–]rq60 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wonder why you won't give a straight answer?

Because it's a conspiracy and /u/starfishjenga is actually an agent of the illuminati.

No joke though, at some point you're going to just have to accept /u/starfishjenga at his word. If you don't trust him, or Reddit, or their contracts with third-parties, then you'll just have to move onto another site you do trust.

[–]ANAL_GRAVY -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isn't the whole point of T&C's and contracts to be able to avoid trust? :)

[–]trafficisgreat 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

I wonder why you won't give a straight answer?

Because he's answered it a dozen other times in this thread alone, and you're being a world class douche all over the site about it. Read through this thread and if you can't under the simple explanation provided, start an ELI5.

[–]ANAL_GRAVY 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Where? What method are they using then? What limits does it have?

It's almost certain that some Reddit users WILL be tracked.

Plenty of users block referrer headers. 'Secret' links seem unlikely, as others could use them. Cookies would be a possibility. Who knows though?

Doesn't sound like /u/starfishjenga will ever tell us.

[–]Mista_Wong 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Dude, they signed a legal contract. If you think you're being tracked then you have a lawsuit on your hands and so does reddit. If Reddit has signed a contract that states they will not track users, then they have to not track users. That's legally binded. Why do you think they are lying?

They've said many, many times what happens when you click a link. It goes through their link processor and attaches reddit's affiliate link. That's all.

[–]allthefoxes -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

holy crap man.

I understand these questions can be important but as for reddits project itself, they have set something clear. How viglink works outside of reddit doesn't really seem to be a large concern to reddit. All you seem to be asking is "how does viglink work with X, Y, and Z that have a fringe relation to reddit" - It seems viglink would be the better people to ask.

[–]ANAL_GRAVY 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

I know how Viglink work outside of Reddit. I've read their privacy policy - that's why I'm concerned.

/u/starfishjenga is saying that Viglink's policy doesn't apply to Reddit users.

That's not a "fringe relation to reddit", it's tied up in Reddit's contract with them.

[–]allthefoxes -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes, their privacy policy does not apply when going through a affiliated link on reddit.

Its not technically feasible to just know when someone once ever went to reddit.com in their life, and then don't abide by viglinks privacy policy now.

Its clear we just have a different point of view on things here so I won't drag this on..but you are really skating on semantics

[–]Gnodfather 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Probably because they don't know, you psycho.

I understood it pretty clearly - if I click a link via Reddit, I'm okay. If I open a browser and go to vigilink directly, I'm not okay just because I'm a Reddit user.

[–]nice_try_fatty -2ポイント-1ポイント  (10子コメント)

Fucking lies.

[–]Mista_Wong 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

How are they lying? They've signed a legal contract. If viglinks breaks this contract by recording a byte of user data from people passing through then they can seek legal action. Why does everyone assume Reddit is malicious in everything they do? It's like you love to hate it.

[–]nice_try_fatty -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

We do not see the contract, do we. Read the privacy policy on viglink. The admins are lying, through their teeth, as always.

edit: Suspicious fucking downvotes. Admins are manipulating votes for sure.

[–]Neospector 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

edit: Suspicious fucking downvotes. Admins are manipulating votes for sure.

You have two downvotes right now.

Two.

One of them is from me.

Please take off the tinfoil hat.

[–]thats-cool 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

The privacy policy is not in place due to the contract.

Connection goes: through a link off reddit (www.example.com) -->

viglink reads that you came from reddit and goes to (www.viglink.com/example.com/redditaffiliate) -->

redirects you to (www.example.com/redditaffiliate).

You don't need to store cookies to redirect someone. The contract would stipulate that no cookie is held from viglink.

[–]9764318264 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

sry, he's the product manager, he just doesn't know anything about how the product actually works.

[–]theronious -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

so typical reddit admin, in other words. Opt-out, here I come.

[–]theronious -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

so typical reddit admin, in other words. Opt-out, here I come.

[–]9764318264 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

what information about the affiliate linking process does viglink store? is there literally anything that lives on their servers regarding the user/reddit connection, reddit/viglink connection that they save? saying that an adtech company like viglink stores nothing on us just SCREAMS bullshit. last i heard from the us govt metadata doesn't personally identify people either.

[–]rawling 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can we see the contract? Or can you or VL publish an update ToS that states VL links on Reddit will be treated differently from VL links everywhere else?