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GNUtards came up with an alternative to Bitcoin: "Unlike BitCoin or cash payments, GNU Taler ensures that governments can learn their citizen's total income and thus collect sales, value-added or income taxes." (taler.net)

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[–]magasilver 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

I have to admit, despite being a huge GNU fan, this is a shit idea.

Despite starting a huge world freedom movement, which may have saved us from a bleak world of FULL COMMUNISM, the gnu crowd dont really understand freedom too well.

Their copyright gambit is brilliant in that it makes copyright toothless. In one of the greatest coups in the 20th century, neutralizing the power of a statist institution world wide using its own power against itself was a masterstroke. The brilliant fools behind it however, dont realize they have neutralized it but instead under the illusion they have redirected the power of copyright somehow to communism.

gnu thaler is just another example of such shortsightedness. Freedom and taxes will never go hand in hand. And we already have bitcoin.

[–]krux9Louis de Lombart’s guard. ☮ & ♥ 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Stallman is a hardcore socialist so it’s not surprising.

[–]PlayerDeusAgorist 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

What gets me is that they can say "free software, free as in free speech" but it doesn't dawn on them why that freedom should exist in a market, a free market, uncensored by taxes, tariffs, regulations, bans, embargos, etc.

I think it's because many of the people who work on free software are academics who receive state funding.

[–]natermer 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The vast majority of people involved deeply desire greater Liberty, but they don't understand the anti-liberty nature of intellectual property and that the democratic socialist state is a enemy, and the free market is the mechanism through which a free society functions.

There is certainly a element of academic elitism and desire to control the 'unwashed masses', but that's not going to be most people involved.

[–]natermer 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's not worth being a GNU fan.

This is a group of people that generally don't understand the nature of the fight they are in. Copyleft was brilliant legal move..

The mistake they are making is by leaning heavily on the concept of intellectual property to fight against crony capitalistic domination of the industry. They simply don't understand that the IP is a tool of government and thus is it also the tool of the cronies. They don't understand the distinction of 'crony capitalism' versus 'free market'. Thus don't understand the need to free the industry from government control and instead, generally, want to enact some sort of democratic-socialist-control of the industry.

It just generates a huge amount of angst and cognitive dissonance. You can see this in the recent court case of Oracle against Google were Oracle successfully convinced the court system of the copyrightability of APIs.

This actually a case of GPL licensed software vs Apache licensed software. Both open source licenses meeting all the requirements of the GNU/FSF for 'Free Software'. Google was literally being sued for violating the copyright of free software in order to write free software. Then you go to these people and try to explain that and the best you'll probably get is a tirade against Oracle for being assholes.

As practical and impactful a result of this sort of thinking ends up with GNU doing things like inserting anti-features into their software that diminishes the utility and market for the software for the sake of 'protecting the freedom of users' through copyright licensing.

Take the GNU GCC suite, for example. It long enjoyed a essential monopoly over Free software compiler suites and was very successful for many years. It enjoyed contributions from many large businesses and shipped with many operating systems. The GNU developers kept inserting limitations into the code base to prevent the integration of third party plugins, which they saw as a threat to the purity of the GNU GPL license. Other corporations could potentially take the GCC and extend it using proprietary software through plugins.

Unfortunately the anti-features GNU introduced to the compilers to damage proprietary enhancements also damaged free software enhancements.

When you combine that with the GPLv3 license they forced the hand of Apple and other corporations to build competing Free software compiler suit in the form of LLVM et al. Llvm introduced to the free software community the ability to use a advanced virtual machine language processing component in languages and it has gained a huge amount of acceptance and you'll see it being used in everything from C compilers, Parallel programming suites, and even video drivers.

If instead of fighting to control the market through copyright they simply kept copyleft as a mechanism to help prevent copyright restrictions from being introduced into the code base they could of simply out-competed any proprietary add-ons. VM features would be a core part of GCC now and there would of never been any reason at all for people to move away from them.

I could go on for pages, but this is the 'shoot yourself in the foot' nature of what happens when you attempt to fight 'capitalism' with the help of government in for the pursuit of greater freedoms. You don't realize the people you are aligning with are the ones that are responsible for enabling the intellectual property framework that eliminated the freedoms you are fighting to gain back.

[–]magasilver 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, I kind of agree with not having propriety module or extensions, because that allows government granted monopolies to lock down sections of the industry if left unchecked. Having lived in a microsoft distopia, I have no desire to return to cronyland.

The BSD license will always be inferior to the GPL: so long as copyright exists aywhere the GPL is better. The best the BSD/MIT/Apache licenses can hope for is to be equally meaningless with the GPL.

I agree with you that they are misguided; however they end up being a net force for good. Their occasional craziness, like this whole taler nonsense, never gets any traction.

[–]natermer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem is that anti-features that hurt people that want to use proprietary modules also hurts people that want to use free software modules.

The only real way to 'beat' proprietary software is in the market. If you end up making your software worse because you fear people extending it in ways you don't like then you are just undermining yourself.

The BSD license will always be inferior to the GPL: so long as copyright exists aywhere the GPL is better

It depends on the goal. People don't understand how much the GPL licensing can be a problem for businesses. It can get extremely complicated very quickly.

These are all legal tools to mitigate the damage caused by copyright on the industry. Depending on the situation GPL may be more apropos then the BSD and visa versa.

[–]PlayerDeusAgorist 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I would say piracy (black markets) and resale have had a bigger impact on copyright.

Open Source has more of an impact on software engineering and security, which in turn, because businesses/people are concerned about security they want open source software.

[–]magasilver 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think piracy may affect movies and music. I dont think it affects software.

In fact, software piracy helps strengthen software copyright. Microsoft encourages it in markets where they risk losing to free alternatives.

Free software has had to overcome both socialist software and its pirate allies alike.

[–]PlayerDeusAgorist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In fact, software piracy helps strengthen software copyright. Microsoft encourages it in markets where they risk losing to free alternatives.

Maybe but there was no money (or source code) to be made with those users anyway.

Most of the money (and source code) that is going to flow into free software is going to be from businesses that can't just pirate software and put on their devices. And that is exactly why linux is everywhere, web servers, mobile phones, TVs, set top boxes, etc.

[–]Mokky 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://i.imgur.com/iWKad22.jpg

[–]mrvbRW2 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

One time I was talking with Stallman, and a group of people. And you could tell, the people in this group were indoctrinated with the standard stuff about copyright "how people get paid, without copyright, what's the incentive without copyright, what if somebody invests millions in software development ..." Stallman addressed each one of these arguments beautifully, but then I went on about how copyrights are anti-free market and how the GNU undoes a lot of the damage caused by copyright, and in a true free market society wouldn't have copyrights. Fuck. Stallman was speechless, and seemed to nearly have a heart attack, like I was a new form of the great Satan or something. He understood free information, but sure as hell didn't understand the free market.

[–]TheSelfGoverned中国制造 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Taler? More like FAILURE!!!. AMIRITE GUYZ?!?!??

[–]random_guy_2323 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know GNU/Richard Stallman has some irrational views about open source, but this even seems to go against the core principle behind GNU which was the as an individual, I should have control over the software I run rather than it controlling me (for example, being able to modify the software to prevent it from 'phoning home' about details of tax evasion). This looks like a joke, or is run by dishonest and ignorant GNUtard communists. A piece of software designed solely to make people submit to an institution based on the use of violence, is not 'free software' by any means.

[–]Priscilla3M14, FAL, G3. THE HOLY TRINITY 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wonderful. Gotta make sure governments get their 'fair share'.

I just don't understand who could get a pile of money and go: "Damn, the only thing that would make this better is if someone took some of it!"

[–]natermer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't worry. It's not going anywhere.

[–]OMGPonzies 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ethical

Taler does not support tax evasion or money laundering, and is also not a pyramid scheme or speculative investment. Taler's protocols are efficient and do not waste energy. Taler encourages competition by providing an open standard and free software reference implementations.

So much lol.

Bitcoin's proof-of-work is the solution to the byzantine generals problem and the double-spend problem. Which means this is DOA flim-flam.

[–]haqshenas 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

More competition is good. Let people decide which coin they want to use.

[–]asherpChaotic-Good 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looks like they will use existing currencies as reserve, including Bitcoin.

[–]JobDestroyerDrunk on vapors 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What an absolutely ridiculous idea.

[–]Grizmoblustsudo pacman -Rsc --force TheSystem -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The GNU supporters and linux master race are retards.

They claim that linux is communist. Embrace communist! -.-

When you pay with Taler, your identity does not have to be revealed to the merchant. The bank, government and exchange will also never learn how you spent your electronic money.

Taler ensures that governments can learn their citizen's total income and thus collect sales, value-added or income taxes.

Kek. Choose one. Can't have both.

[–]andkongrero.com -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cuckcoin?