全 68 件のコメント

[–]bornconfuzed 268ポイント269ポイント  (13子コメント)

Tell them you're willing to go to the School Board and complain as well. PA Legal Aid may also be able to help you for free.

[–]dwarf_wookie 37ポイント38ポイント  (8子コメント)

If the Principle won't help the School Board is your next step.

[–]TrainFan 32ポイント33ポイント  (6子コメント)

  • Principal

[–]easychairmethod 22ポイント23ポイント  (5子コメント)

It is the principle of the thing though.

[–]wvwwvwwvw 203ポイント204ポイント  (12子コメント)

PA does have an AP fee reduction program. The school is required to take steps prior to the exam. It seems to me that since you have no ability to access the state system to verify they entered the information, you were more than entitled to rely on their representation that they would do so. Here is some information, and here is more information including a State-level contact. She can hardly hold you morally responsible to take steps that you are neither able nor permitted to take, that is to verify they had done the appropriate steps before and after the test. The info I linked squarely shows these are responsibilities of the school. The info I linked also documents that participation in the free lunch program is an appropriate qualification for access to the fee waiver program.

My opinion is you are getting shafted because you are poor and powerless.

Here's a contact for the AP organization.

You could so a mercy call to the ACLU in PA to see if they've seen the issue before and have any assistance to offer. Fee reduction for students in poverty seems to be a Title I issue.

Is there a school board meeting before graduation?

[Edited to remove information.]

[–]BlatantConservative 6ポイント7ポイント  (11子コメント)

[Whistling noises]

[I advised him to remove stuff that breaks rule 11 pls dont bully]

[–][削除されました]  (10子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]UsuallySunnyQuality Contributor[M] 67ポイント68ポイント  (9子コメント)

    Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):

    Seriously?

    If you feel this was in error, message the moderators.

    [–]izzgo 63ポイント64ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Seriously?

    Best reason I've seen for a post removal :)

    [–]starlitepony 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Damn I'm sorry I missed this post: How bad was it?

    [–]ThisDerpForSale 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I always missed the good ones. . .

    [–]RaineBearNW 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Yeah seriously though, what did it say?

    [–]darwinn_69 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Probably your standard 'go to the media' advice.

    [–]RaineBearNW 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    In that case there is a standard reason listed

    [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

    [removed]

      [–]UsuallySunnyQuality Contributor[M] 27ポイント28ポイント  (1子コメント)

      It's not good advice, which is why it isn't allowed here. Don't try to end run around the rules.

      [–]justdrowsin 81ポイント82ポイント  (3子コメント)

      DO NOT ENTERTAIN THOSE PAYDAY LOANS! It will be the worst decision of your life.

      [–]haemaker 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

      ...and for OP, here's why.

      [–]justdrowsin 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Thank you. I wasn't in a position to write a long comment.

      [–]ViralFirefly 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Seriously. We took out one for less than 500$ and it took us a year to get out from under it.

      [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

      [removed]

        [–]UsuallySunnyQuality Contributor[M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):

        Do not advise posters to call the media or to post on social media

        • Alerting the media to, or otherwise publicizing a potential legal situation creates additional risks and problems, and should only be done, if at all, with the counsel of a local attorney representing OP.

        If you feel this was in error, message the moderators.

        [–]BlatantConservative 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I actually wasnt though. Like truly, I even advised the other guy to edit his post so that he didnt break the same rule

        [–]UsuallySunnyQuality Contributor[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Really.

        Thats the perfect kind of thing a local journalist would pick up real quickly if they happened to catch word of it.

        [–]BlatantConservative 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Oh, sorry. Ill edit that out if it breaks the rules.

        [–]pottersquashQuality Contributor 24ポイント25ポイント  (1子コメント)

        When you say graduate, do you mean "certify that I have completed course work" or "let me walk across stage?" Either way go to school board about fees.

        [–]__solid 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Agreed, and as an addendum:

        I teach in PA. School board meetings are open to the public, but I'm fairly certain you need to ask to speak publicly. It's all their boring fine print on your district's website. You may want to look into that or find a teacher who may know. I would talk to someone who lives in the same city/town if you can.

        [–]Bob_Sconce 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Assuming you're not in Pittsburgh or Philadelphia, nearly all of the school districts in Pennsylvania are quite small. Don't wait to go to a school board meeting to complain. Look online and find the email addresses for the school board representative for your area and email him or her.

        My mom was on the school board for one of those small districts for something like 20 years, and she could get most people's administrative problems solved pretty quickly.

        Now, if you are unfortunate enough to be in one of the few large districts in Pennsylvania, you probably just have to work your way up the ladder.

        [–]Happy_Bridge 79ポイント80ポイント  (19子コメント)

        She told me that since I have proof of being a low income student (free lunches $$) they could get my fees waived.

        You need to talk to the principal and get it waived in the system. Don't bother to talk to anyone else.

        [–]thanksschool12[S] 90ポイント91ポイント  (18子コメント)

        Yeah we talked to the principal already and she told us that it's too late to get the fees waived now because I've already taken the tests. Apparently I should have "made sure" that what she and my guidance counselor told me was correct, and this is "an expensive life lesson about doing your due diligence". So I don't think I'm getting anywhere with her.

        [–]haemaker 236ポイント237ポイント  (6子コメント)

        Yeah, next stop, superintendent, then the school board. The "made sure" thing doesn't even apply in the "adult" world. You could make the reasonable assumption that what the guidance counselor told you was true and correct.

        For example, if you walk into a sandwich shop and ask "How much for this sandwich?" The person behind the counter says "$5+tax", you agree to that price and they make the sandwich. You eat the sandwich. The bill comes for $10+tax. The manager says, "Well, the clerk was wrong. You should have made sure of the price, and you can consider this a life lesson about doing your due diligence."

        That wouldn't fly. You were quoted $5 by a person working for the company and you had a reasonable assumption they had the authority to offer you the sandwich for $5. If the sandwich shop chose to sue you, they'd lose.

        [–]BullsLawDanQuality Contributor 72ポイント73ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Just want to say that's a great analogy and explains this in a way OP, a high school senior is very likely to understand. Thanks.

        [–]haemaker 42ポイント43ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Thanks. OP's principal pisses me off, I have ZERO TOLERANCE for that crap. I hope OP can find someone to intervene and stand up for him/her.

        [–]Discover2010 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

        This makes me mad too. The principle and guidence counsler probably screwed up the paperwork to have it waived and doesn't want to admit fault since it would make herself look bad

        [–]redditRW 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I hope that principal learns a "life lesson" really soon about taking advantage of their position to berate an intelligent but financially challenged student.

        OP--best of luck to you in college! Hope you get this resolved.

        [–]101311092015 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        high school teacher here. just letting you know this shit happens at every school all over the damn place. nobody talks to eachother, everyone is disconnected and the students always pay out the ass for it. often literally. it's illegal for a school to require students to take the ap tests, at least where i am, but for YEARS they told every student and parent it was mandatory just to try and bump up the numbers of the school.

        makes me want to vomit.

        [–]ExplodingSofa 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Agreed, great analogy. That's such bullshit what the principal is trying to pull.

        [–]andpassword 77ポイント78ポイント  (0子コメント)

        expensive life lesson about doing your due diligence

        Yeah, this is bullshit.

        Take it up the chain, superintendent, school board, local elected official (state rep/senator). Asking the school counselor IS doing due diligence in terms of your academic career, because by definition, it's their job to know what can and can't be waived. Your principal is either being lazy or malicious.

        Don't go to a payday loan place.

        [–]izzgo 37ポイント38ポイント  (0子コメント)

        this is "an expensive life lesson about doing your due diligence".

        Yeah, HER and the school's expensive lesson.

        While it's possible you won't be able to walk with your classmates until this is resolved in your favor, that doesn't mean you won't have your diploma before college starts in the fall. The adult lesson here for you is to stay on this daily, going up the chain and to all possible responsible groups.

        Don't give them the money unless it is legally proven to be required. You won't ever get it back once you pay them.

        [–]BullsLawDanQuality Contributor 28ポイント29ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Apparently I should have "made sure" that what she and my guidance counselor told me was correct, and this is "an expensive life lesson about doing your due diligence".

        I suspect if you take this to the school board hopefully they will have a different life lesson to hand out, to her.

        That's your next step.

        Also, the school cannot block your graduation. They can refuse to release your diploma or transcript. Depending on what you're doing next in life, that may or may not matter.

        [–]haemaker 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

        They can prevent OP from attending the ceremony, refuse to release his diploma, stop his transcript, etc. If he can't prove he graduated, he might as well not have graduated.

        [–]lemniscate_this 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

        OP Can prove (sort of) he graduated. The Family Education Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) requires schools to provide access to students and parents to their complete academic records. If the school cannot reasonably accommodate the student's request, then the school is required to provide copies of those records to the student. If copies aren't provide, OP could use an app for copying documents, which the school is also required to allow.

        Since transcripts are a part of one's academic record, the school would essentially be granting OP unofficial transcripts, which, while not perfect, would allow OP the ability to discuss this issue with his college or university prior to enrollment.

        FERPA also allows parents/students to request changes to one's records. Those changes could be for anything in the file from an incorrect address or name misspelling to an incorrect grade from 4 years ago. If the school refuses to change the item, the parent or student has the right to request a formal hearing, usually with a district panel, not a school panel.

        Long and short is this: OP, ask to see your records after you graduate. They have to allow you access. Copy your transcripts via your phone or ask for them to copy it. They can ask you to pay a reasonable fee to do so. If you find a document or note in your file regarding the test fees or a hold on your file due to a delinquent balance, then make sure you copy it and request that it be changed. They'll most likely say no at which point you contact your superintendent's office to request a formal hearing. THEY MUST GRANT YOU THE HEARING REGARDLESS OF THE POSSIBLE OUTCOME. That's important. Even if the superintendent and the principal are best friends who golf together ever Saturday morning while imagining ways to fuck over the poors, federal law requires them to at least hear and record your grievances.

        In the mean time, write down absolutely everything you can remember about this issue. Make notes (even incomplete ones) of times and dates for conversations you have with your counselor, principal, teachers, everything. I guarantee you no one at the school will have formal notes, except possibly your counselor. Regardless of whatever you do, coming to the table being moderately confident in your timetable will make everyone else look unprepared and incompetent, which makes winning these types of arguments much easier.

        [–]toast_related_injury 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

        in addition to FERPA, this is a possibly a violation of Title I funds. if OP is a low income student as determined by free/reduced lunch programs, then withholding an earned diploma and transcripts over this would be very interesting to the folks at the PA Department of Education. while Title I funds aren't intended for any exact purpose, this is the sort of thing that they are typically used for. the school may end up in a position having to explain what they are really doing with Title I funds to the point where they can't pay $250~ for AP exams that are not even required. failure to account for the funding could result in an investigation and possibly loss of Title I status and all associated funding.

        [–]Happy_Bridge 33ポイント34ポイント  (0子コメント)

        But, wait, what happened when you specifically pressed her on her specifically telling you that the fees had been waived? You went forward relying on her specific and clear statement that the fees had been waived. They can claim you should have gotten this in writing, which is true; but it doesn't mean there was no promise made and that you didn't rely on a guarantee from the principal herself.

        [–]Jaivez 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Apparently I should have "made sure" that what she and my guidance counselor told me was correct, and this is "an expensive life lesson about doing your due diligence".

        Absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure if you had checked in on it they would probably have chastised you for not trusting them to complete it, considering they probably think of it as them doing a favor for you and ignoring that they put you in this position.

        No advice to offer, but best of luck with this situation. I was screwed over myself transferring from a community college to a university on some credits and know what it's like to have people promise you one thing and then backpedal and blame something else for it not happening.

        [–]goddess_gyuri 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It shouldn't be on you to "make sure what they said is correct". When I had to do my AP tests, one of my school's VPs said the fees would be waived, and they were.

        Sounds to me the principal just doesn't want to spend the school's money for whatever reason. Take it to the school board.

        Just to add: you weren't required to take those tests, so if they didn't want to pay for them and knew you couldn't, they shouldn't have forced you into them. All they do is provide (possible) university credits.

        [–]magicdragonfly 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The problem with the argument about "you should have done your due diligence" is that you're a teen aged high school student. They're college educated, likely have master's degrees, and (most critically) have jumped through the hoops of the AP exam multiple years already. There's a huge difference -- they're asking you to basically second guess your doctor when he says "hey, I think you have cancer." At the tender age of 18, you're supposed to be as experienced in administering the AP exam as they are, all of a sudden? I've administered an AP exam myself, and the paperwork is nothing I'd expect a student to navigate without adult guidance.

        If this goes nowhere after speaking with the school superintendent, I'd call the state board of education.

        Try here, under the "Advanced Placement Testing" number: http://www.education.pa.gov/Pages/Contacts-by-Subject-Area.aspx

        Also their general contact info: http://www.education.pa.gov/Pages/Contact-Us.aspx

        If you haven't done so already, contact your college admissions office and let them know what's going on, so as to minimize any surprises in September. They might also have information that could help you -- not the least, they might just say "don't worry about the diploma", in which case, you can just relax and enjoy your summer.

        [–]ruralife 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Whoa! Expensive life/career lesson for HER. She needs to do her job properly and ensure that her subordinates are as well. A lesson for the principal to learn, not OP

        [–]lisasimpsonfan 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

        If the school board/superintendent isn't helpful try contacting your state representatives and state board of education.

        [–]donthaveacowman1 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

        As a practical matter, a week is not very long to get this resolved. Perhaps in the meantime as an emergency back up plan you can make arrangements to walk and participate in the graduation ceremony and just get the empty folder with the actual diploma to follow.

        [–]TheTacoCometh 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Are you allowed to mention which school district this is?

        [–]redditRW 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Call the AP powers that be and explain to them what happened. Perhaps they will erase what you "owe."

        [–]realityno 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        You should have been able to opt out of the tests. When I was a kid they were not mandatory and my school was/is a top ranked public high school in the country. Log the dates you spoke with the principal and guidance counselor. Send an email to them both reiterating the importance of your conversation and that they informed you due to your financial need and they had previously agreed on date that these would be waived. Let them know that you only registered for the courses thinking you would not have to take the tests and therefore not be charged or avoided incurring any fees. Then when it came time for the tests, you were unable to opt out leaning they were mandatory despite what you were originally led to believe (if you know the exact date that your counselor told you the tests were not mandatory so you signed up for five AP courses that'd be ideal). Print the email and any responses and save it. Let them know you need their response as this is urgent due to the walking for graduation and receiving your diploma. If they deny you once again you can forward their response to the your school's board and the state's education department. You should be protected based on your financial need.

        [–]TotesMessenger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

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        [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

        [removed]

          [–]bornconfuzed 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

          One of the sub rules is "Posts or comments encouraging others to contact the media or to post on social media will be removed.". You might want to edit your post.

          [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):

          Do not advise posters to call the media or to post on social media

          • Alerting the media to, or otherwise publicizing a potential legal situation creates additional risks and problems, and should only be done, if at all, with the counsel of a local attorney representing OP.

          If you feel this was in error, message the moderators.