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There needs to be fixes to the American Tank Destroyer Faction, they are almost useless against Panzers and that should never be the case. I have gone into several matches with a friend to get some stats on the American tanks and their performance against German medium and heavy tanks, all percentages are based off of a test of 100 standard rounds from whatever tank is mentioned (I also want to note that I am not just a person who plays USF, I play evenly betweeen USF and OKW)

The M26 Jackson underperforms, it misses 60-80% of the times I have tested it on any tank, When it does hit it usually bounces off of Panzer IV's with Armor Upgrade, Panzer V's deflect 60% of the shots that hit it, suprisingly the King Tiger has the highest chance to have it's armor pierced (At about 70% chance to hit)and each does about 25%. I'm going to list the things I hope to see changed on it.
1) The Price of the tank needs to represent it's preformance and most tanks do this perfectly in Spearhead, but as I see it now this tank needs to be improve or at the very least have its price reduced as its performance is not nearly good enough for the other things you can get for 125 fuel
2) Regardless of it's price and range, this tank NEEDS a reduced reload. Panzer V's and Tigers can shoot 2 rounds for every 1 a M26 fires and their shells are more lethal and more accurate.
3)The Range is about the same as a Panzer V but the Panzer V has better accuracy,better movement speed,better armor, better accuracy while moving, and better reload.
4) It's ambush tactic perk is uselesss. It can't move while it's active and in a sudden fight it can get it killed. It's range (Line of Sight, not its range of fire) should at the least be improved when the perk is active as it does not offer any advantages as the tanks' reload speed kills any positive affect on it
5) Going back on it's range, the reason I say it should be 1.5x that of it's german counter part is that the tank itself is super weak, most tanks will 1 shot it or do a critcal hit that will end up killing it.
6) The damage of the shell should be increased and should 1 shot a Panzer IV's without armor upgrades or Stug III's without upgrade

The M10 Wolverine is absoutely trash, I don't even need to say anything about it, it just sucks, when I have tested it, it loses every fight to a panzer (Both stationary and moving and in a 2 vs 1) and half of it's fight against Pumas. It has horrible damage,armor piercing, etc.

There should be more to offer for this company that does not involve Tanks or artillery strikes. Maybe a experienced anti tank crew or a higher number of anti tank squads (Or the ability to place better anti tank mines with riflemen or M9 rocket upgrade)

Finally, I want to point out some bugs with the artillery strikes for the Tank Destroyer Company, both the smoke and HE shells do not work, ever.

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Monsta

4月26日 19時47分

I also want to thank the developers for their hard work in creating this awesome mod, I hope one day Relic will hire you guys or at the very least work with you to create a gamemode or difficulity that reflects what you guys have done in Spearhead. I honestly believe that the way you have set up the game should be the way it is played naturally.

Charles Vane [開発者] 4月27日 1時52分

the penetration bug vs panzer IV and King Tiger is odd. I'll check once I got a bit free time but it should't be like this except the 60% vs panther seems ok.

1st. 125 fuel for a tank with a 90mm which can take put multiple tanks (in theory) deserves a price like this + it can camo so it is a very dangerous enemy Price reduction will most likely not happen anytime soon because if there is a bug with its gun then it will be fixed and the performece will be better then. as said I have to test it first.
2.fun fact: the Tiger and Panther V had higher rate of fire IRL. iirc the M36 reload is just a half second slower.
3.you are comparing a very advanced medium tank vs a TD. the price differs a lot also the time it takes until you can actually build them -> range is equal. mobility is also pretty equal iirc the M36 turns his hull faster than the panther. the gun handling... it is not our fault since we took real values for reload and accuracy.
4.maybe we'll change the perk in general to have atleast slow movement.. we'll see.
5.no. just no. from gameplay perspective it would be horrible. a stationary mode for TDs with +10 is the maximum.
6. ehm.. wut? it does. the damage is higher than the HP of a panzer IV. the 90mm deals already more damage than the 88 and the 88 can oneshot shermans which use the same amount of HP as panzer IV. criticals save a tank from what EVER shell it hits.

Pupu Mr. Panda は Company of Heroes 2　を持っています

4月27日 2時16分

Atuty at this moment its not that useless as before.
1) Ambush tactic isn't that bad as goa wrote. f tanks could move during camo it would be OP. At this moment its well balanced.
2) Remember that 90mm isn't 88 or 75mm So reload must be longer. Also check veterancy and boost from them.
3) Panzer V-Panther is a medium tank not a SPG and it use 75mm so reload is faster. It have better engine and sloped armor. Panther have also mechanic to shoot in move (Also are you talking about M26 Perishing or M36 Jackson )
4) M9 bazookas upgrade would be OP and at this moment you have M18 upgrades for every riffelman squad

Also remember that SPG aren't for head to head battles but for support and ambushesh.

Charles Vane [開発者] 4月27日 12時25分

3 is irrelevant. jackson had no stabilizers about pershing I'm not so sure. if then it is just a very early gyroscopic stabilizer w/o further turret modifications.

Solty

4月29日 3時18分

I don't agree with OP, but this doctrine was on my mind for a while. It is the weakest of all US doctrines and has realy little to offer. I would even go as far to say that this is indeed the worst doctrine of all available in game.

The M36 has realy low value as a proper tank destroyer. It is the endgame unit for this company and has realy low efficiency. The M36 Jackson needs a buff to accuracy and penetration IMHO, and it would be good if it had the same range as King Tiger. That way it would be worth to even take the Tank Destroyer company in the first place. Right now the M36 is constantly boucing of a Panther without HVAP. I have played it now more than 4 times in a row and each time the Jackson felt realy underpowered.

It is a unit that has no real cool infantry, that is ok, not everything has to have super good INF, but at the same time it offers very little from TD side itself.

The offmap support is borderline usless and BUG is present (HEAT arty doesnt drop when called)

What I propose to make it a viable doctrine:
1. Buff range and penetration of M36 Jackson. To reliably penetrate the Tiger I from any distance and to have about 70-80% penetration chance on the Panther and 40% on Tiger II with standard ammo (front). Pop Cap max 2x M36 can be fielded.
2. Make AT guns and AT infantry come out with veterancy
3. Fix the off map attacks and make them either faster to drop or cover a wider area.

I think that should make up for more interesting doctrine with realy nice Tank Destroyer capability. IMHO it should be a very good AT doctrine that can keep the enemy at bay but has low capability to push through enemy defenses.

Charles Vane [開発者] 4月29日 3時25分

range IS the same. so I dunno what you are talking about ;)
the accuracy suffered indeed but nothing tops the panzer IV J. worst accuracy ingame we corrected ALL gun values.

the HEAT bug is new. we'll fix that of course..

1. range buff. no. no outranging except with ability. penetration is correct I just made this sure. you have to keep in mind that the 90mm had a high penetration drop (if anybody now comes up with HVAP-wikipedia values I'm going to delete his post in a matter of seconds! ;))
2. that would be a nice addition indeed. I'm going to forward it to AC.
3. well as said. yes. or do you think we leave broken things broken?
if the M36 has a limit I rather remove it or increase it but penetration is right. it has on short range panther values and on long range Tiger values. with more than tiger 1 damage so basically A tiger gun with better short range penetration. you had bad luck. there is no other way because the armor and penetration values don't lie. anyway when I'm back from work I'm going to take a look at the murican tanks.

4月29日 4時18分

1. Depends on ammo you use for reference. 30deg angle target test.
http://amizaur.prv.pl/www.wargamer.org/GvA/weapons/usa_guns7.html

Charles Vane [開発者] 4月29日 12時25分

just compared it with my files. lots of mismatches found. also here is the question "where did they get them from?" why? because to me the only valid sources are those from post war areas where they used different guns from different nations vs the same steel. problem is simple: US tests US ammo vs US steel. germans test german ammo vs german steel. steel quality differs very much in this era. (mentioned by lot of experienced soldiers and also hilary doyle).
a not so 1 to 1 reference from an american tankman: "on paper we are able to destroy a tiger with HVAP on 800 yards. in combat we had problems on less then 200 vs mark V and VI tanks"
see the problem?

Charles Vane [開発者] 4月30日 0時22分

penetration jackson vs panther -> long range 32% chance. mid range 67% chance and short range 94 %. vs tiger it is ~6-8% higher each

Biohog

5月1日 11時11分

Charles Vane の投稿を引用：
1. range buff. no. no outranging except with ability

Or veterancy. :^)

I've mentioned elsewhere, but I'll throw it in here. Open topped tank destroyers like the M10 and M36 should be get a better los or have reduced/no los penalty while moving, to give them an advantage over the closed tanks. The logic is they're not as durable, but you can manouver around the enemy tanks more easily if they're on they're own.

#10

Charles Vane [開発者] 5月1日 12時28分

nope. not even with veterancy. maybe as ability with veterancy. los. yea possible.

#11

#12

5月1日 12時44分

Charles Vane の投稿を引用：
nope. not even with veterancy. maybe as ability with veterancy. los. yea possible.

Well other than historical accuracy what is it you aim to achieve with Spearhead ? If we were going off history alone American tanks should be cheaper (and more of them) and faster to build than any german tank, but that is not the case, as germans (Both factions) can have tanks out faster than their American counterparts.

#13

Charles Vane [開発者] 5月1日 13時07分

german tanks are still later available and cost more. also the difference between the strengh of infantry is not historical. just saying.

#14

5月8日 18時14分

Charles Vane の投稿を引用：
just compared it with my files. lots of mismatches found. also here is the question "where did they get them from?" why? because to me the only valid sources are those from post war areas where they used different guns from different nations vs the same steel. problem is simple: US tests US ammo vs US steel. germans test german ammo vs german steel. steel quality differs very much in this era. (mentioned by lot of experienced soldiers and also hilary doyle).
a not so 1 to 1 reference from an american tankman: "on paper we are able to destroy a tiger with HVAP on 800 yards. in combat we had problems on less then 200 vs mark V and VI tanks"
see the problem?

Yes I see the problem. Do not take urban legends as facts. What I know is that Americans on the Western front confronted the Tiger 3 Times. So "on paper we are able to destroy a tiger with HVAP on 800 yards. in combat we had problems on less then 200 vs mark V and VI tanks" sounds like a tankman that had a bad day and takes it as a only truth. Many tankers didn't have any issues, but that is not interesting right?. It is the same with every branch of the military. Many things can factor in, and even something as simple as angle of attack of the shell or just a bad shell etc.

Numbers do not lie and German steel is not that amazing as you make it out to be. It is harder to penetrate yes(most of the time because each steel fragment is going to be unique and differentt), but that doesn't mean it's a 40 or 50% increase in protection.

The site I have given has references below, you can check the book yourself.

I just hope you will not go down the path that Blitzkrieg took with their over the top German tanks.

#15

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