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Overwatch Angry Review [RF] (youtu.be)

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[–]Geracir 118ポイント119ポイント  (16子コメント)

He's so much more enjoyable to listen to when he's not screaming or playing it up for the laughs. Good review.

[–]catesaintdead 26ポイント27ポイント  (6子コメント)

I completely agree with this, recently I've had so much AJ fatigue, the guy knows his stuff and makes really good points; but its always hidden behind layers of screaming or him repeating any comment that might become a catchphrase 3 or 4 times to hammer the joke home. I mean the guy has done well; he's made so many reviews now that have had a high quality and when you compare that to most television comedy shows that will have a team of writers that run out of steam after three seasons then hats off to the guy. But this style of review from him is so nice to see; he is still joking around and having fun, but those parts highlight his points rather than overshadowing them. Hopefully he carries on making reviews of this ilk.

[–]tlor180 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah he has 3 up on his channel now, uncharted, battleborn and overwatch were all reviewed this way and its way more informative. These reviews and his twitch streams make me wonder if he is just playing a character on other angry reviews.

[–]1moe7 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

make me wonder if he is just playing a character on other angry reviews.

I thought that was always kind of obvious? He always acts different in his reviews than in his other videos

[–]trambe25 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty sure he admitted that he played a character when doing angry reviews. Can't remember where I heard it though

[–]illossolli 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

He used to always act that way, but he came of as an ass during the Xbox one reveal and he hasn't been that way in interviews since.

[–]Nobleprinceps7 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's called "angry" reviews for a reason. He definitely plays, maybe not a "character", but a more extreme version of himself.

[–]mattigus 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Angry Joe is at his best when he isn't angry. When he's "angry," it always feels like he's putting on a show and faking emotion to get views.

When he isn't angry, he sounds incredibly sincere, thoughtful, and usually very passionate about what he's talking about.

[–]jelatinman 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

His fanbase fucking hates the RF reviews because they think short length = bad quality. His reviews are actually just as thorough as before, just with no sketches and less hammering points in. While this reviewing style is done by many other places, he's very good at it.

AJ's fanbase has become completely toxic to the point that I don't even read the comments of his videos unless they're posted here. They think these RF reviews are the equivalent of his frequent Twitch streams, which they aren't, and just attack him for anything outside of gaming. While he's fallen behind in terms of content creation, these RF reviews are helping him get back up there.

[–]tommygunner91 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've always thought he brings at least a few good points to the table in all his reviews but usually he's screaming or doing the angry gamer shtick so it's hard to pick them out.

[–]Kalulosu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yet I still felt he was screaming or playing things up a bit hard, when his bottom line was really interesting and, in my opinion, correct.

[–]stakoverflo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed. I can't stand the act he puts on. Not an original or entertaining character; just give me the discussion.

Unpopular opinion, but I can't stand Lewis Black for the exact same reason. Oh look it's a guy pretending to be angry, how funny!

[–]Indianasbastardson 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed. I find his angry reviews to be caricatures of all the negative aspects of "gamer personalities". It's obnoxious.

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    [–]Grindie 98ポイント99ポイント  (14子コメント)

    I like that Joe addresses both the good and bad points of Overwatch and counters some of them. Feels like every other review is either "GOTY 10/10" or "NOT F2P 0/10".

    [–]LG03 11ポイント12ポイント  (12子コメント)

    For real, the mainstream reviews have been completely worthless. They all just lean way too much towards fanboyism.

    [–]IHaveVariedInterests 28ポイント29ポイント  (9子コメント)

    Angry Joe has 2.5 million subs. That's not mainstream in today's fragmented media landscape?

    [–]loladin1337 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

    He is the biggest reviewer actually out there, but with the word mainstream people think of classic magazines and shit, and they all fail with this stuff.

    [–]Mebbwebb 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He's grown so much compared to his days at blistered thumbs.

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      [–]gamefrk101 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Youtube reviewers aren't mainstream in general.

      Even Pewdiepie (only mention him as he is the most popular Youtube content creator) is barely mainstream. He is a curiosity on talk shows and the butt of a lot of jokes.

      [–]WeirdLookinJamesDean 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

      The definition of "mainstream" is vastly different depending on the consumer. Kids today aren't watching Late Night, they're watching Pewdiepie. For them he is mainstream.

      [–]gamefrk101 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Mainstream to me is more than being popular in his niche though. That's like saying Reddit is mainstream. It isn't that well known outside of those that frequent the internet. It is getting bigger and bigger though.

      He is super popular among certain demographics and certain groups that is for sure.

      However, mainstream to me is being known by a majority of people or at least outside of your niche.

      For example, Pewdiepie was on Southpark and on late night talk shows. He has breached out of his niche into the mainstream. Angry Joe has never really been mentioned outside of internet culture.

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            [–]unique- 147ポイント148ポイント  (149子コメント)

            I completely agree with him on everything, am I having a blast? Yeah but the content feels light and I think they need to add some level voting type thing like Mario Kart 8, I swear I'm playing the same 4 levels over and over again.

            Edit: Since people never played Mario Kart 8, it take three random levels and lets you vote between them so that voting for the same favorite level doesn't happen.

            [–]Scofield442 33ポイント34ポイント  (13子コメント)

            You think letting people vote on levels is going to allow you to play more maps?

            If anything, you'll end up playing the same 2 maps over and over. 100% no to this feature.

            [–]EinsamWulf 10ポイント11ポイント  (10子コメント)

            I think CS:GO is a pretty good indicator of that, I know Dust 2 like the back of my hand. God forbid I actually get to play a different map.

            [–]Scofield442 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

            All the maps are fantastic in Overwatch too, so I'm glad I play pretty much all of them during one session.

            Edit: Downvoted because I enjoy all the maps? Give over. People have opinions different to yours ;)

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              [–]boomtrick 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Thats only an issue if younhave bad maps.

              Thats my experience anyway

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                [–]Tiffany_Stallions 115ポイント116ポイント  (48子コメント)

                Letting people vote won't solve that issue, on the contrary. People like a handfull of maps and hence the idea gets played all the time while less popular ones are never seen (from my experience across multiple games). I'd rather have randomized maps so you get some variety eventually then play "the best" maps over an over. ..

                [–]frago-roc 41ポイント42ポイント  (1子コメント)

                de_dust2 ad infinitum

                [–]Like_A_Wet_Noodle 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I'd rather have randomized maps so you get some variety eventually then play "the best" maps over an over. ..

                Is it randomized right now? I don't know how the maps are decided right now but whatever it is..I get the same maps over and over. I barely ever get Route 66, Hollywood, or Nepal. I've probably gotten Route 66 less than 10x and I'm level 52.

                [–]neophyte_DQT 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                maybe you could record which maps you are facing to have concrete data? it's quite possible you are just not remembering clearly, or just having strange luck. I got hollywood and nepal all the time, lvl 37

                [–]InTheAbsenceofTrvth 3ポイント4ポイント  (38子コメント)

                What maps do people like the most? Since there's no voting system it's hard to tell.

                I know what the group I play with thinks (Volskya is terrible). But I wonder what everyone else thinks.

                [–]Rainuwastaken 10ポイント11ポイント  (36子コメント)

                Volskaya and Anubis are flat-out the worst. The woooooooooorst. I'm also not terribly fond of the second point on Hanamura, since defense basically spawns on top of the control point.

                My favorite maps are probably Nepal and Lijiang Tower. I like King's Row for payload.

                [–]Malaix 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Yeah I agree if you get map voting you are basically never going to see Anubis, and nobody wants to be on the attacking team for Volskaya or Hanamura. Those second points are a bitch to take.

                I would pretty much be voting for Numbani all day.

                [–]EinsamWulf 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                On capture maps the attacking team spawns closest to the first point to make it easier on them to take the first point where as it is always reversed for the second point. One of the best ways to mitigate this is using Symestra's teleporter.

                [–]Cognimancer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Anubis is my favorite :( I don't want voting for precisely these reasons, everyone I talk to seems to have different preferences for maps.

                [–]UndeadMeme 5ポイント6ポイント  (22子コメント)

                Honestly it just seems like you hate Assault and prefer Control, meanwhile I'm almost the opposite.

                Most of my favorite games have been played on Anubis, while Lijian Tower always seems to end in a stomp one way or the other.

                [–]Rainuwastaken 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Guess it's just personal experience. My Anubis games go one of two ways; either we never make it through the first chokepoint, or we blow through and the enemy team just crumbles.

                I'll admit I'm really not a fan of Assault, but I guess that's just because I'm the kind of player that would rather hole up in a defensive position instead of push forward. Offense always feels like a massive struggle at the best of times, and an impossibility at the worst. But that's probably just because I'm not that good at the game yet, since I hear Offense is the favored side most of the time.

                [–]TJA2010 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                This is what everyone needs to understand and what makes online games hard to rate. Everybody is going to have a different experience from another. There can be an overall opinion, but always remember that online play makes user experiences different. For example, how AJ says that he could steamroll teams with 6 of the same character. My friends and I did the same thing and got stomped twice.

                TLDR: Be open minded of others experiences/opinions

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                    [–]Scathee 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    Why do people not like Anubis? I've never had a problem with that map

                    [–]Rainuwastaken 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    The first point on Anubis bothers me because, despite being pretty simple to get through, it puts some kind of mental block on a lot of players. The enemy will set up with a Bastion or two and I'll be like, "alright D.va time, go in behind me guys and I'll use defense matrix to keep us all safe".

                    Then we go in, I turn around, and everybody on my team is back by the fountain, trying to pick off the enemy from way back. Genji is inexplicably throwing ninja stars non-stop instead of popping deflect and moving safely into a side passage. Our pack of Widowmakers has decided that headshots are the true answer to capping the point, not standing in it. I have no idea where Lucio has gone, but I wish him luck in his travels.

                    Is the map bad? Nah, it's pretty neat and I love the complete clusterfuck that is the second point. There's a lot of neat verticality for people to drop in from, and I like the layout. I've just had really bad experiences with the map so far.

                    [–]effhomer 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Second point is a killing field

                    [–]Scathee 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I agree to some extent but I don't think it's as bad as Hanamura personally.

                    [–]MGPythagoras 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    I have played 20 hours so far and I barely remember any of the map names but could draw them for you. Weird how memory works.

                    [–]Rainuwastaken 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I'll admit, I had to look up Lijiang Tower when I wrote my post. I mostly remember them in very fuzzy terms. "Alright we've got Egypt, Japan, uh...The orange sunset place, the map with the toilet bowl, and Hollywood."

                    [–]stakoverflo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I'd completely disagree. I love Temple of Anubis, can't stand King's Row lol

                    [–]CaptainKick 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Anubis used to be the only map I outright hated. If you dislike it now, you would have absolutely despised it before it was changed.

                    Out of the three paths that lead to the final point, the left one had a wall so only mobile heroes could use it and the middle one was much narrower.

                    Now that it's changed, I enjoy it a lot.

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                        [–]hate_is_beautiful 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I think this is the failure of the matchmaking system, and why the Blizz really messed up by not having a server browser.

                        In TF2, if there's a certain map I want to play, I know I can find a server that has it in the rotation, or if it's a server I regularly play on, I can ask the admins to put it in to their rotation.

                        [–]CaptainKick 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        flashbacks of playing nothing but Nuketown

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                          [–]Vercadi 30ポイント31ポイント  (34子コメント)

                          The only problem is a few maps and just 2 game modes... seems lazy. Everything else is pretty much top notch.

                          [–]TheLastDesperado 23ポイント24ポイント  (7子コメント)

                          Technically it's 3 and a half game modes. It's just that Payload and Attack/Defence are very similar (then there's the Hybrid A/D-Payload maps).

                          [–]literal_reply_guy 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

                          I might be highlighting my stupidity in this but is there any way to know what type of game mode you're about to play, before going into the match (so, while you're still picking your character)?

                          [–]ekol 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          The game modes are tied to the maps themselves, possibly look up a list of maps which should specify the game mode.

                          edit: here ya go http://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Maps

                          [–]akinak 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Yes. Every map has a tied mode. Dorado is always payload, Ilios is always capture, Kings Row is always hybrid, etc. You even can see side you are on: defense or attack in the top left corner of the screen.

                          [–]GrandDragonMystery 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Though it doesn't say the game mode type in the loading screen as far as I can tell.

                          So for new players that haven't already memorized the map's game mode it's an unconvenience. It wouldn't be a hard thing to add though, just add the game mode into the loading screen/hero selection screen (or better yet, make it optional in case people hate clutter in their UI)

                          [–]TheLastDesperado 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Huh, you know I'm not sure. By now I know each map, but it might say on the loading screen?

                          If it doesn't though, I guess the easiest way to start out would be to memories the 3 Control Maps, because they play a lot differently to the others. So those are; Nepal, Lijang Tower and Ilios.

                          [–]Joed112784 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Ya, but every game mode still boils down to "go stand here longer than the other team"

                          [–]CoDog 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          which promotes team play, which is what Blizzard is going for. They did say they're going to add more game modes over time, and this is Blizzard I believe them when they say they're adding more content as time goes on.

                          [–]elderYoghurt 20ポイント21ポイント  (11子コメント)

                          ... seems lazy.

                          Lazy? People just say this so much now the word has lost all meaning. Nothing about Overwatch comes across as lazy. If it's light on some content it's not due to Blizzard developers taking the day off.

                          [–]n0ggy 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

                          The criticism is understandable.

                          It feels like Blizzard focused more a simple but polished product than creating something complex with a lot of depth.

                          [–]T3hSwagman 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Which is Blizzards new design manifesto in recent years and it has worked out swimmingly for them. Hearthstone, Heroes, Diablo, Overwatch. Keep it simple and players flock to it.

                          [–]n0ggy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          I'm not criticizing the decision from a marketing point of view, but from a consumer's point of view it means very little content.

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                            [–]UndeadMeme 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            21 heroes, 9 maps, 3 game modes. I can see why some might complain if your comparing it to TF2, but that has over a decade of dev time behind it. If you bought the founders edition I agree but for 40 bucks I think the amount of content is about right.

                            Could I use more? Of course! But that feels more like a praise for the game than it does a criticism.

                            [–]Nezzatic 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            It's $40 on PC, $60 on consoles. I agree that for the amount of content I found in the beta, $40 is a fair price to pay, but i'm on PS4 so i'm stuck with overpriced or nothing. To be fair, they announced all future characters/maps are free.

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                                [–]kalanosh 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                Yeah but the content feels light

                                I keep hearing this but i find it hard for anyone to say that.

                                Overwatch has 21 characters that vary greatly and practically no one has mastered one yet.

                                They have 12 maps. 3 of those maps have 3 different 'maps' or control points for each round.

                                They have three modes plus a hybrid mode.

                                Each character has a variety of skins, voice lines, emotes, sprays, intros, poses and there is player icons.

                                Not only is there a variety of maps and characters but stuff to collect.

                                What is light about this content?

                                I can't think of any modern multiplayer shoot that released with more maps. COD? HALO? Battlefield? Battlefront? Insurgency? Rainbowsix?

                                I am guessing its the modes. People are use to payload from TF2. Maybe they want more VARIETY in the modes like CTF or other stuff.

                                [–]boomtrick 8ポイント9ポイント  (32子コメント)

                                Agreed. What i find even more odd (or not surprising at all) is that games like street fighter 5 get blasted on this sub for lacking in content and it even had a road map detailing what was releasing in the upcoming months.

                                Overwatch on the other hand gets a free pass when it is in the same situation as sf5(great core gameplay slim on content). Even most reviewers dont mention it.

                                [–]Apathy_is_Death 7ポイント8ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                That's a good point.

                                On the other hand I'm not sure if comparing the two is the easiest. Fighting games have a history of having some SP content. Another thing to consider is that Capcom wanted SF5 to be more appealing to the casual crowd, they did not do anything for the casual crowd on release.

                                If they released SF5 and titled it something like "SF5: tournament edition" for 40$ there would be no outcry, imo.

                                Overwatch is better compared to a game like Battlefront. In that comparison when you adjust for the prices/dlcs/gameplay/actual game content I think OW wins by a bit due to the polish.

                                Another thing that needs to stop is people expecting SP content in everything, OW was always marketed as a competitive-shooter with a twist, why would you expect SP? For example, Battlefront had a history just like SF5 of having that content so expectations were different.

                                One can make a great MP game and price it at the premium fee and it can still be great value. I know that if dota2 would be a 60$ game I'd buy it instantly. I'd rather have a Buy2Play+cosmetics than anything else.

                                I think it used to be doable to have MP games without microtransactions, but game prices have stayed the same and development costs have went up...adjust for inflation and you kind of get why all the devs try to push all kinds of garbage DLCs/microtransactions into their products.

                                [–]boomtrick 3ポイント4ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                The only reason why i made the comparison to sf5 is because both games at launch are sparse on content. Someone else started thisnwhole gameplay comparison thing.

                                Also in regards to OW i dont think it needs singleplayer,ever.

                                However it could do with more maps and more modes(like competitive matchmaking).

                                [–]Bangzooka 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                I'm not finding apologies for it being a Blizzard game, i don't even enjoy all games that Blizzard has made. But maybe Street Fighter 5 got more outcry because the IP is almost 30 years old now? They have a lot of characters to play around with, and equally much content in past games to look at. Overwatch is a new IP.

                                That may be why people give it more leeway on the content side, and the fact that Blizzard has promised that every map and character that will get released will be free (no idea if they've given numbers for the amount of maps or character though), while it's been reported that DLC characters in SF5 will cost around $6, though they can be bought for free with Fight Money (again, no idea about how many fights need to be fought to earn enough for one character).

                                Just some food for thought.

                                [–]Kalulosu 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                Also the outcry on SF5 was kinda too much seeing how most SP modes of SF have always been pretty crap. Now, that doesn't mean all criticism of the game was null, to the contrary, but the part that focused on SP content was, to me, irrelevant to the core of the game.

                                [–]Logios 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                Agreed, SP in fighting games just isn't fun. AI technology simply isn't at a point where it could be fun. Basically the AI just reads your inputs, if you land a hit on the computer it's because it let you. Fighting games are all about mind games and trickery, you can't play mind games with an AI that reads your inputs.

                                Besides, fighting games (especially SF) have never been known for having a lot of SP content meanwhile FPS HAVE. I just don't find the "lack of single player" complaint very valid.

                                [–]boomtrick 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                They have a lot of characters to play around with, and equally much content in past games to look at. Overwatch is a new IP.

                                huh?

                                sf5 is as new as overwatch is new.

                                sf5 was released in 2016 not 1990s

                                expecting them to launch 30+ characters that they have to develop from the ground up is pretty retarded. not sure why you would assume that....

                                That may be why people give it more leeway on the content side,

                                yeah not buying it. pretty sure its just fanboyism. just like how bethesda gets away with shit that no other studio could.

                                and the fact that Blizzard has promised that every map and character that will get released will be fre

                                sfv5 did the same. even have a schedule in place.

                                [–]2019DetectiveSpecial 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                expecting them to launch 30+ characters that they have to develop from the ground up is pretty retarded. not sure why you would assume that....

                                That's exactly what his point was. Blizzard did that. SF series doesn't need to. Doing so, like you said, requires a lot more work, and that might be why people are giving Overwatch a pass. That's what he was saying.

                                [–]Bangzooka 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                sf5 is as new as overwatch is new. sf5 was released in 2016 not 1990s expecting them to launch 30+ characters that they have to develop from the ground up is pretty retarded. not sure why you would assume that....

                                I think you missed the part where i wasn't walking about just SF5 but the whole Street Fighter IP (intellectual property), that has spanned close to 30 years by now.

                                And out of 16 characters at launch, 4 or 5 was brand new. Why do you claim that characters like Chun-Li, Ryu and Zangief have to be developed from the ground up when they've all been around for more than a decade?

                                Overwatch's 21 characters actually have been made from the ground up for that single game, with a backstory and everything. Something that has been built up for years and years in the Street Fighter universe. So no, i was not expecting Konami to build 30+ (where did you even get that number? 16 at launch) characters from scratch, because they didn't.

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                                  [–]elderYoghurt 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                  I don't feel like there's a lack of content. The difference especially in comparison to SFV is the amount of characters. 21 is many characters, although people like to downplay it and the complexity of balancing them.

                                  Heroes differ greatly in their play styles on any given map and that gives them longevity that other games cannot match

                                  Maybe once I reach the 60 hour played mark I'll feel a stretch. But that's 60 hours in a multiplayer only £30 game, well worth it, even before any additions

                                  [–]nmeseth 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                  The content is the heroes rather than the maps.

                                  [–]Misiok 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                  Overwatch works from day 1, Street Fighter V didn't, makes playing online hard and there's an unnecessary pause between every fight, among other issues. Not to mention Capcom giving out a roadmap and failing at keeping to it, and doing the silent approach to communication. Really, the good thing Capcom did with SF V for now was to make their DLC free until their cash shop works, which will then require purchase.

                                  [–]Wefee11 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Interesting, I didn't even think about it much, but I think that's right. But I guess it's also financing the animated shorts, comics and a bunch of other stuff. Still, I think it's reasonable to ask for a lower price, especially because you can sink in more money in the game.

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                                    [–]SmokyMo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    They should just implement the down vote 2-3 maps before queueing like sc2, so there is a smaller chance to play maps u down vote

                                    [–]Scathee 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    I dunno if it's a string of bad luck, but my party played Hanamura into Numbani alternating like 8 times in a row. We play on both maps probably 4 times as much as any other, too

                                    [–]stakoverflo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    I've played Kings Row ten times more than I've played Temple it a Anubis, I swear.

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                                      [–]big_fan_of_jumpers 54ポイント55ポイント  (65子コメント)

                                      I think that's mostly fair. It's a lot of fun, but giving it a free pass on the lack of content at launch because it's fun is silly, and is a favour that isn't extended to other games.

                                      People seem to be thinking that everything we don't yet know about the game is going to be great, because it's Blizzard, and then factoring that into judgments. Yes it's great that additional content is going to be free, but judging it without even a road map for release is premature. Similarly when people understand the game at a deeper level they might actually have less fun! The double-healer and Reinhardt back-and-forth shuffles don't appeal to everyone.

                                      Anyway. I'm having fun with it, but the hype is overblown.

                                      [–]pragmaticzach 29ポイント30ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      I think that's mostly fair. It's a lot of fun, but giving it a free pass on the lack of content at launch because it's fun is silly, and is a favour that isn't extended to other games.

                                      I'm willing to give any game a free pass on anything if it's fun, since that's the entire point in the first place. The point of games isn't to check off some arbitrary list of checkboxes that qualify it as "good."

                                      [–]2019DetectiveSpecial 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Exactly. There's this weird "dissect the frog" analysis that a lot of amateur game critics seem to adopt for things like this.

                                      "Hmm, I seem to be having fun. I want to keep playing. But according to my spreadsheet this game earns fewer points than others, and therefore must be worse."

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                                        [–]Coldara 63ポイント64ポイント  (37子コメント)

                                        I feel like an old grandpa when i read comments about content in multiplayer games.

                                        Everyone acts like they already mastered all maps and heroes and there is nothing for them to do. The content of multiplayer games are the matches.

                                        You don't see chess players whining that their games hasn't changed in hundreds of years. CS players play dust2 with the same weapons for thousands of hours.

                                        So CoD has a single player, but aren't numbers showing that less than 20% even completed the campaign in Blops 3? Not to mention that even if you complete it, the 8 hours are nothing compared to the hundreds of hours of multiplayer? "Back in the day" we had a handful of weapons and a handful of maps and people played that for hundreds of hours

                                        Sure, Overwatch is not perfect, not at all and far from it, but the framework and gameplay are so damn polished, i take quality over quantity ever day

                                        It's like with the massive amounts of options in games nowadays people just can't stay focused anymore and quickly lose interest if they don't get fed new stuff all the time

                                        If Overwatch doesn't change much, then yeah, they have a big problem, but the game is out for a week and people are already complaining about lack of content. Like they need a fresh carrot in front of their face every few hours or they can't play anymore.

                                        [–]gatz 27ポイント28ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                        For some reason the point of playing a game is no longer playing the actual game. I don't understand it either. There never used to be matchmaking or cosmetics. People played for fun / to get better, not to unlock arbitrary attachments or to have their skill quantified by a matchmaking level

                                        [–]Kalulosu 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Matchmaking is still a good thing when it helps pit people of comparable strength together. Especially in FPSes where a big difference in level usually ends up meaning a huge stomp where no one really learns much.

                                        Of course the problem is the e-peen comparison, but hey.

                                        [–]fiduke 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        For me, matchmaking with competitive is fun. Random people playing games with me is fun for a little while but loses its luster between 10 and 20 hours.

                                        I also don't care about having my skill quantified, I just want even matches. Played quite a few games were some players were just absurdly better than everyone else. I don't want to play with the Widowmaker or Hanzo that has over 50% accuracy. Or the Soldier 76 with 65%. They are going to wreck me and everyone else and it won't be fun.

                                        [–]Cognimancer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Ehh, I still think you can get around those. I like that most of the time, if I'm getting blasted by someone clearly very good at their class, there's a hard counter I could switch to and stop whatever it is they're doing.

                                        Except for McCree. If an enemy McCree not only abuses his instant-win E+RMB, but also fights competently with his primary fire from range, you can pretty much kiss that game goodbye.

                                        [–]insane0hflex 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        How are you gonna pick up girls if your not double gold ak or at least diamond 3 in league???

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                                          [–]Roboticide 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          So CoD has a single player, but aren't numbers showing that less than 20% even completed the campaign in Blops 3? Not to mention that even if you complete it, the 8 hours are nothing compared to the hundreds of hours of multiplayer? "Back in the day" we had a handful of weapons and a handful of maps and people played that for hundreds of hours

                                          For me, the difference was that some games like Call of Duty had a history, a long one, of single player campaigns. It feels like I spent hours and hours playing the 1942 campaign. Multiplayer was not the main draw necessarily. Same thing with Star Wars Battlefront. The original two had galactic conquest modes and a rudimentary story. Then it was just... dropped.

                                          Overwatch is the first Multiplayer Only game I've embraced, but it was designed like that from the ground up. And it's not the traditional full cost of a Single/Multiplayer game, so I like that.

                                          But yeah, I think it's silly for so many people to be claiming they've mastered it and there's no content. League of Legends has had the same map for years, they have more heroes, sure, but didn't always have that many heroes.

                                          コメントをもっと表示する (26 返事)

                                            [–]IndridCipher 28ポイント29ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                            I do not agree Overwatch has a lack of content. The modes and maps are not the draw of Overwatch they just facilitate the interaction between the different characters. The way the characters work is the content of the game. It's like complaining League of Legends or Dota is only 1 map... Like yea... That's the backdrop for the actual game. I feel the same way about these maps and modes.

                                            [–]elderYoghurt 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                            Exactly how I feel. Also, most heroes experience each map in very different ways. It adds a surprising amount of variety. Some will stay on a point, others will be crossing rooftops, some lurking in back passages, following other heroes, or flying around.

                                            The fact that each map has to accomodate so many play styles is incredibly complex and people don't give them enough credit. Each level is hundreds if not thousands of man hours to produce.

                                            [–]Kryhavok 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            I guarantee you the lack of content complaint is because people 'main' 2-3 heroes and that's all they want to play, team composition be damned. So they don't get the variety of playstyles you get with different heroes, nor do they experience the alternate routes and nookes and crannies of the maps because they have no need for them when they just play Widowmaker and Hanzo.

                                            [–]Ukani 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            I have to agree with you. The game has 21 different characters, and each one feels like a character from a whole other game. When I play D.Va Its like Im playing some sort of mech assault/gundam type of game. When I play genji its like Im playing ninja gaiden. When I play S.76 its like Im playing CoD. When I play mercy I feel like Im playing an MMORPG or TF2 doc.

                                            Its like this game has 21 different minigames all wrapped into one arena fps. All that for $40. Then you get maps, future heros, gamemodes, etc all for free, AND you get an incredably polished experiance (something which is rare now a days). I really dont see the value argument. $40.

                                            [–]Only-Thor 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            You are 100% right. Going from playing Reinhardt to Tracer to Genji to Lucio you will use the map very differently on each of those characters.

                                            [–]lestye 14ポイント15ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                            I think that's mostly fair. It's a lot of fun, but giving it a free pass on the lack of content at launch because it's fun is silly, and is a favour that isn't extended to other games.

                                            I get that, but at the same time this has been the highest quality fps release in years, and I think people most people see that. Paladins/Battleborn/Dirty Bomb or whatever shooter can have 30 different maps and 5 different game modes at launch, I still wouldnt rate it high because of how boring/unpolished the game is.

                                            So that's why I'm probably extremely lenienent in that regard, becuse in spite of the only 2/3 game modes, it'll still miles ahead of any recent multiplayer shooter on the market, barring Counterstrike, obviously.

                                            [–]Barrel_Titor 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                            Yeah, i'd rather have a tight, fun, high quality game with less content than one with loads of content that isn't anything special. Reminds me of Splatoon in that regard.

                                            [–]Kurp 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                            I almost bought a Wii U just because Splatoon looked so insanely fun, and that game had even less content than Overwatch.

                                            [–]Barrel_Titor 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            Yeah, i got it on release day and had no complaints about the amount of content, the game was just so fun. It probably has triple the content now too.

                                            [–]keyblader6 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            "Less content than Overwatch" os patently untrue. That game had a singleplayer campaign on release and a scheduled release of a new mode. And it got shit in reviews for its lack of content. People saying that Overwatch doesn't deserve criticism for its dearth of maps/modes cause it is fun are talking out of their ass. Splatoon got those complaints and that game is much more innovative than Overwatch

                                            [–]MPricefield 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            If you do manage to find a Wii U for a good price, I do highly recommend it. It's really awesome.

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                                              [–]Greibach 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              It's a lot of fun, but giving it a free pass on the lack of content at launch because it's fun is silly, and is a favour that isn't extended to other games.

                                              The reason that I personally am far more okay with OW's supposed lack of content when compared to say Destiny or a F2P game is that we will be getting future maps and characters for free. In the former we "had to" pay like 60-80 more dollars on top of the base game to make Destiny feel like it was finished, in the latter there is much worse power creep in general or P2W, and just in general I hate the "free hero rotation then grind to unlock" model in almost all F2P games.

                                              I know this is apparently a controversial opinion, but I hate "progression" in competitive games. Hell, for the most part I hate so-called endless progression in PvE content too. I like having characters "maxed out", or in the case of overwatch having all characters with all abilities. I find grinding out levels and getting loot (that affects stats) to be frustrating and tiring because it never ends. That is why games like Destiny were not fun for me personally. It was alright for awhile, but then it just became an endless grind in the late game even for PvP since the equipment was shared. Destiny felt hollow and unfinished, unpolished and grindy. Overwatch may seem shy on maps/modes, but goddamn is it polished, fun as hell, and doesn't have any ability/gear/character gating. To me, that's a 10/10.

                                              With all that said, a lot of those things are personal preferences. I tailor my recommendations to the given player, so if I had to write a review it would basically have 3 types of players and the scores would probably be 10/10 (me), 8/10 (enjoys cartooney shooters), 5/10 (enjoys progression, PvE).

                                              [–]nmeseth 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              How many games are this fun? DOOM is a recent example of a game that got good scores because it's fun.

                                              Both of these games aren't just fun for a few hours. It lasts. The experience has Polish and quality that's severely lacking in other titles.

                                              Rocket League was a game that tried many times to be successful. But they spent years just polishing the shit out of the experience, and then they knocked it out of the park.

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                                                [–]Gumpt 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                Within a month of release Star Wars Battlefront had 15 maps split between 16 - 40 players, 9 game modes (with each map supporting multiple game modes) and it was absolutely butchered on this sub for a critical lack of content. Overwatch released with 9 maps, each with a single game mode, and 3 game modes total (with two of them being very similar).

                                                I think the core gameplay of Overwatch is much better then Battlefronts, but the differences between the amount of hate Battlefront got and the amount of hate Overwatch is getting (specifically related to the content in each) does show that one is getting a far easier ride then the other.

                                                [–]Slims 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                I think it just proves that gameplay trumps all.

                                                People will play the same map and game mode for years and years (see: League of Legends). What people really want is interesting and compelling gameplay. Overwatch has this, a game like Battlefront does not.

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                                                  [–]PrettyMuchBlind 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                  Lmao disallow people picking 6 of the same hero in ranked play. Why would they disallow a team intentionally gimping themselves by exposing huge weaknesses??

                                                  [–]JiggyJoe21 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  You can tell its a rapid fire review when he forgets to replace the "sample text" during his verdict.

                                                  I don't disagree with Joe though, the lack of modes really makes this a hard sell at $60. Early adopters will just have more unlocks and will adapt to the gameplay more over time. I have put just over 20 hours into the game and I can see myself putting tons more so I can't wait to see Blizzard's direction of the game.

                                                  [–]merkwerk 91ポイント92ポイント  (164子コメント)

                                                  I'm really not understanding the negativity towards loot boxes at all. Loot boxes are there so they have a steady source of revenue and can release all future maps/modes/heroes for free. Again, 100% completely optional cosmetic micro transactions that can be earned just by playing over time are in place so all of the future content for the game can be free. How is that even remotely a negative thing?

                                                  [–]CrackersAndMilk 67ポイント68ポイント  (27子コメント)

                                                  I'm really not understanding the negativity towards loot boxes at all.

                                                  He actually explained why. When it comes to micro transactions, essentially he'd much rather be able to buy specific skins he likes for characters he actually plays, rather than be forced to gamble for a chance at skins, and often for characters he barely plays or doesn't play at all. You see him open a few boxes and get only sprays and player icons; Something I'm sure we've all experienced by now. I see some people posting very lucky boxes, but most lootboxes are useless sprays and icons regardless if you purchased them or not. It's 100% gambling.

                                                  [–]RedditMcRedditor 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                  Exactly.

                                                  It's like collecting sports stickers/cards when you were a kid. Instead of being able to directly buy the ones you want, you have to keep playing (or buy) more random loot boxes for the slight chance that you get the one you want.

                                                  Except that with these loot boxes you can't swap them with someone.

                                                  [–]jelatinman 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Yep, Blizzard implemented Ultimate Team. CoD had something similar but had a lot of free modded guns given away.

                                                  [–]lordsmish 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  See what could be good is the ability to buy Loot boxes at their current price but have the ability to buy credits and/or skins seperatly.

                                                  So you have a 3% chance of getting what you want out of a cheaper lootbox or a guarenteed unlock for a little more.

                                                  What I personally was hoping for was something akin to Halo's system where you get credits for completing matches and can spend those credits on lootboxes. Now they already have a credit system in place so they should just sell credits and allow you to choose to buy lootboxes or stuff for your character.

                                                  [–]chudaism 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                  What I personally was hoping for was something akin to Halo's system where you get credits for completing matches and can spend those credits on lootboxes.

                                                  The system they have now is nearly exactly the same as Halo's system. In Halo 5, you can't use req points to buy specific items. You can only attain items through req packs. In Overwatch at least, you can gain credits to buy specific items. You just cannot currently buy credits. If anything, this is better than Halo's system as the major complaint to 343 is that you can't get reqs any other way except through packs.

                                                  [–]lordsmish 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Sorry i meant in the way that i would like them to give you credits rather than awarding you boxes. Thats the only part i wanted to be like halos system.

                                                  The credits should then be allowed to be spent on items or loot chests.

                                                  [–]yaosio 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Marvel Heroes has the best system I've seen. New characters can be bought with an in game currency called Eternity Splinters that drop every 7 or 8 minutes of active play or with the real money currency. When you buy a new character with eternity splinters you can buy a specific character or buy a random character box for half the price of most characters. If you buy with real money from the G store (G for Gazillion I assume) you'll get a bundle that includes extra costumes and other crap nobody cares about. I've not played in awhile so I don't recall what else was buyable with eternity splinters.

                                                  The original system was terrible. Originally you could get random hero token drops, and they mean random. Some people never got a random hero token drop, other people got plenty of them. Moving to the eternity splinter system with timed currency drops was a great decision. I stopped played because the difficulty was all over the place; one second you're one shotting mountains of enemies, then suddenly you're the one getting one shot over and over, and then suddenly you're back to one shotting mountains of enemies.

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                                                    [–]KRowasdx 23ポイント24ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                    At least he didn't forget to say you can get loot boxes just by playing the game. However, he failed to mention this "grind" (=playing the game) caps at about level 20 or so. I didn't get to that point yet, but to put it shortly after that point every level takes around 20000 XP, which translates to ~10 matches, one match being 2 to 15 minutes long. This means the "farming" never gets insanely or infinitely long.

                                                    If someone could post the exact values it would be appreciated.

                                                    I like the fact that he didn't just join everyone praising without adding anything to the conversation, but his reviews are so often... misinformed? For lack of better word.

                                                    [–]Gangster301 36ポイント37ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                    At level 23 and all levels after that you need 22.000xp to level up. You get 4.01xp per second of in-match time, resulting in ~2400 xp for a 10 minute match, and ~1200xp for a 5 minute match. On top of that you get 500xp for winning, upto 150xp for medals, 250xp for staying to the end while losing, 200xp if you played multiple matches without backing out, 400xp if you entered the match very late(Backfill), 1500xp for the first win of the day, and 20% bonus if you're in a group. This results in you getting a loot box about every 60-90 minutes depending on your skill, if you're playing multiple matches and if you're in a group.

                                                    [–]Apathy_is_Death 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    I believe once you hit 100 the XP counter reset to level1 as well, you hit level 100 after about 100hours/300 wins, so that's really not that much.

                                                    Which means the 20-30 lootboxes you get after level 100 will be gained at a much faster rate as well.

                                                    [–]Radulno 16ポイント17ポイント  (41子コメント)

                                                    For me the problem is the gambling aspect of it. They're fine for gift when you level but to buy with real money, it would be largely better to be able to buy what you want directly in the store. Because most of what you get you actually don't want (doesn't help that tons of the cosmetics are pretty lame, like sprays or just recolors).

                                                    [–]LG03 30ポイント31ポイント  (39子コメント)

                                                    the gambling aspect

                                                    That's exactly what it is and it's just disappointing to see Blizzard trotting out the Hearthstone pack mechanic again. I've got a friend who's a sucker for this shit, he's already dropped $200 on loot boxes and I can't talk him out of it. He practically has more fun opening the boxes than playing the game because they're designed to trigger the same parts of the brain that make slot machines so addictive.

                                                    I can live with micro transactions but it's the sneaky, manipulative manner that Blizzard is using here that bothers the hell out of me.

                                                    [–]Bonzi77 12ポイント13ポイント  (27子コメント)

                                                    It might be a bit manipulative but it certainly isn't sneaky, it's pretty laid out what you're in for.

                                                    [–]Pyll 7ポイント8ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                    It's called "whaling". They know that while most people won't put more than a few dollars into loot boxes, those that do are absolutely out of control. If 1% of the players have gambling problems they can easily spend thousands of dollars into loot boxes.

                                                    It's a despicable business.

                                                    [–]LG03 -1ポイント0ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                    If you walk up to someone sitting at a one armed bandit and ask if they think they're getting taken for a ride, their answer is going to be 'no, it's just a matter of time'. Everyone can look at that person with pity, disdain, whatever, because we know they're getting fucked but how are loot boxes any different once you start paying cash for them?

                                                    It's sneaky because you look at any comment thread where this topic comes up and there's always someone defending it because it's 'just cosmetics'. Doesn't matter, people are dropping cash on a dice roll when the 'consumer friendly' option is to simply let people buy what they want.

                                                    [–]VP_John_Hoynes 10ポイント11ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                    Doesn't matter, people are dropping cash on a dice roll when the 'consumer friendly' option is to simply let people buy what they want.

                                                    Shocking update: Business' don't love you. They want your money so they can keep running their company.

                                                    What people are willing to drop cash on isn't the companys fault. There is being an adult and fiscal responsibility.

                                                    Nobody feels bad for the guy who loses all their money at Vegas. Nobody feels bad for the guy who loses all their money buying lotto tickets. Nobody feels bad for the guy who spends their life savings buying CSGO skins or Overwatch cosmetics.

                                                    It's not Blizzard or Valves job to exercise financial responsibility for the adults who play their games. In the same way it's not the Casino's fault for people who gamble their life savings away.

                                                    It's not unethical or some morally grey area. It's not sneaky (Did they lie to you? No)

                                                    The real '""consumer friendly'' option is to simply give everything away for free /s

                                                    If your friend can't be an adult, that's his problem. Not Blizzards.

                                                    [–]workthrowaway314159 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                    Nobody feels bad for the guy who loses all their money at Vegas. Nobody feels bad for the guy who loses all their money buying lotto tickets. Nobody feels bad for the guy who spends their life savings buying CSGO skins or Overwatch cosmetics.

                                                    You dont know shit about other people.
                                                    Problem gambling
                                                    Anti gambling addiction organizations

                                                    [–]LG03 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                    Look, I'm not disagreeing with any of that but it doesn't mean we shouldn't be calling them on their bullshit. It definitely doesn't mean we should be praising the business model like they're doing us a big solid by only selling loot boxes.

                                                    [–]literal_reply_guy 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    I don't think it's bullshit to offer booster packs of things as long as you're made aware that what you get is random. It's no different to pokemon cards, gachapon machines and many more things.

                                                    In my mind the responsibility of the company ends with making it clear what you're paying for and what you could get out of it.

                                                    I'm happy to occasionally have a roll on the machine, in the same way that every couple of months I'll pick up a scratch card for the small gamble.

                                                    People need to seriously get a grip and take responsibility for their actions. It's like fat people blaming fats food because it tastes nice. No shit opening stuff and getting rewards is fun, you just have to be moderate with your money.

                                                    [–]junkman0011 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                    Maybe it's a problem as costumes and skins were unlocked in the past by doing challenges or reaching a level. Now there's a longer grind with an option to pay for faster unlocking.

                                                    [–]LG03 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                    That's absolutely part of it, some of us remember a time when minor goodies like that were simply a reward for playing and not the carrot on the stick which you can swing your way with some cash.

                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                      [–]loladin1337 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      The worst part of these gaming slot machines is that you can't even really win. With real slot machines at least there is a small chance that you can make bank. In Overwatch and co the best that can happen is some shitty skin that is called legendary that you can do nothing with if you don't want to play with it. There is no money going out of the system. Especially Valve is crazy with this stuff. I'm damn sure the real gambling industry looks with a jealous eye on Valve and co that they can get away with casinos that don't let you cash out.

                                                      [–]jelatinman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      Show him that South Park episode about "freemium" games, and that's what your friend is. Game companies prey on a very specific gambling addict market to lure players into spending lots of money on stupid shit they don't need, whether it's Farmville land, Overwatch loot, or Draft Kings's "bet on fantasy football daily" crap.

                                                      [–]BlueHighwindz 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      I'd agree it's manipulative but I also can't deny your friend is a moron. The math is so clearly not worth it yet he did it anyway. Hope he's happy.

                                                      [–]Rainuwastaken 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                      Unfortunately, this one's on us. Blizzard's original stance for Overwatch was that they didn't want to have any microtransactions, but the community badgered them into adding loot boxes at least.

                                                      Whales gotta whale.

                                                      [–]Trontaun79 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                      That's some next level fanboyism there.

                                                      "Blizzard really didn't want to increase their profits with microtransactions, it was the fans who demanded it!"

                                                      [–]Rainuwastaken 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                      I'm only repeating what I've heard. I wasn't in any of the betas and stuff so I wasn't in the mix when it went down, but I remember the threads over on /r/Overwatch being incredibly positive when Blizz mentioned it.

                                                      [–]Trontaun79 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                      Blizzard can get away with a lot and have their most rabid fans still praise it. I wouldn't put too much into positive threads on one of their game's subreddits.

                                                      [–]Rainuwastaken 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      Fair enough. I bought into Diablo 3 early because of that and got burned, so you've got a point.

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                                                          [–]kap216 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          I hate how people just throw around the term gambling. Random chance ≠ gambling. I guess Trading card games have actually been gambling games for years. This isn't gambling. You are paying for a random chance to get some worthless items in game.

                                                          [–]neenerpants -1ポイント0ポイント  (23子コメント)

                                                          It amazes me that people are so willing to defend Blizzard over something they actively villify other games companies for.

                                                          "Pay to win is bad! It's dishonest and exploits people! Oh but Hearthstone's okay, I mean it's a choice, so it's fine"

                                                          "Microtransactions are bullshit! They're just cut content! Oh but Overwatch is okay, I mean it's just common sense to want a revenue stream"

                                                          I would hope it's not the same people each time, but the way the hivemind as a whole will just forgive things they normally hate, just because it's a Blizzard game, is crazy.

                                                          [–]TashanValiant 20ポイント21ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                          One thing that is usually agreed upon is that is fine when it is for Cosmetic only. Games like Path of Exile, CS:GO, Dota 2, League of Legends, Halo 5 all are popular games with microtransactions to support that game that are primarily cosmetic only and some of which are tied behind a roulette mechanic.

                                                          Additionally, Hearthstone isn't really a comparable game by any means, as its transaction model is entirely based off 20 years of CCG history pioneered by Magic the Gathering. /r/games usually bitches about it, but its clearly a sustainable model and allows for a fresh and dynamic game for years on end.

                                                          [–]IHadACatOnce 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          I haven't played league in years, but can't you buy rune pages/runes which give you an advantage?

                                                          [–]haruame 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          yeah it's a big stretch to call LoL cosmetic only when it takes 100s of hours to unlock runes pages and champions.

                                                          [–]T3hSwagman 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          LoL definitely needs to be removed from that list. Purchasing heroes and IP boosters is not cosmetic only. People are iffy on PoE since they sell stash space increase. The only ones that are truly cosmetic only are CSGO, Dota 2 and Overwatch.

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                                                            [–]Coldara 13ポイント14ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                            "Microtransactions are bullshit! They're just cut content! Oh but Overwatch is okay, I mean it's just common sense to want a revenue stream"

                                                            oh please, they don't sell map-packs or missions or heroes, they just give you the option to get cosmetics faster.

                                                            Blizz-drones are annoying as hell, but so are people like you. Every single time people talk about microtransactions they general consensus is that cosmetics are fine. And in OW you can get everything by just playing, apart from the Origin skins.

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                                                              [–]loladin1337 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              I'm really not understanding the negativity towards loot boxes at all. Loot boxes are there so they have a steady source of revenue and can release all future maps/modes/heroes for free.

                                                              Because the skins and stuff are very noisy for the eyes and it's a full priced game that shouldn't need stuff like that. Also every game needs some gambling shit it seems these days and that alone is just annoying.

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                                                                [–]bub433 13ポイント14ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                                Yeah I'm sorry but I have no problem shelling out $40 for a game like this. Rocket league is arguably lighter on content, had a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller dev team, and charges for cosmetic dlc. With a dev team of around ten people shouldn't rocket league be f2p then? No, because they put in the work to make a top notch, polished competitive game that has no hint of a grind. It's a blast to learn, to play, and to compete in.

                                                                For me, the same applies for overwatch, regardless of its parent company. I don't show special treatment or expect blizzard to monetize things that should be unlockable. I guarantee if they had gone the way of league of legends with paid skins, they'd get lynched then too. For me, I've already sunk in tons of enjoyed time, and it's nice to see that time rewarded with cosmetics.

                                                                [–]Trontaun79 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                                Rocket league is also $20, which is a third of the cost of Overwatch on consoles. I'd also disagree on the content, Rocket league had just as much at launch and has added multiple modes and maps for free, the DLC has been all cosmetic the same as Overwatch.

                                                                [–]PrettyMuchBlind 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                How is 6 functionally identical cars on a handful of mostly functionally identical maps the same amount of content as several much larger more complex maps, 21 functionally unique characters with their own weapons and abilities across a few drastically different game modes. They are no where near the same level of content. Even rocket league now is no where near the content of Overwatch. So what they added a few new maps with shitty quality (rocket labs) and some gimmicky game modes that mostly just change some physics parameters and the ball shape?
                                                                Just to clarify by 6 cars I mean 3v3 not the car models.

                                                                [–]nmeseth 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                I'm beginning to think a lot of the critics of content haven't really played the game or realized how much content 21 heroes offer.

                                                                [–]PrettyMuchBlind 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Yah and its not like CoD where each gun is mostly just the same things with different damage, fire rate, and recoil numbers. Every weapon is radically different and requires each to be built from the ground up.

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                                                                  [–]NoVeMoRe 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                  I really love this game and would personally give it, in its current form, a 89 out of a 100 as i also find the price to be okay for what the game offers buuut that's not to say that the game is perfect.
                                                                  There's really a lot of stuff they need to improve on and whilst some of those things i'm going to list aren't my personal gripes, i still find them to be noteworthy and comparisons towards Battleborn as far as value proposition also seem to be fair.

                                                                  • No Campaign mode
                                                                  • There's no co-op mode
                                                                  • Mouse sensitivity options are lacking
                                                                  • The 20hz client tickrate is really bad for an FPS and causes a lot of scetchy and frustrating situations to happen.
                                                                  • Heroes have no Summary or Ingame Story
                                                                  • Lack of Game Modes
                                                                  • No 21:9 support
                                                                  • Spectator and UI in general need some improvements
                                                                  • No veto or voting option for Maps
                                                                  • No Server Browser
                                                                  • You cannot set a max ping for your Region.
                                                                  • Hidden Abilities and certain interactions that don't make sense.
                                                                  • There are no Ingame stats like DMG or HPS provided for what your Abilities actually do.
                                                                  • The Skillcurve of certain Heroes is too low.
                                                                  • The Loot System is a bit iffy but would be acceptable if it were without constant duplicates and player portrait drops.

                                                                  [–]DeeJayDelicious 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                  Yeah, Angry Joe has a very good point about the media hype. Overwatch is good, but currently not great and I don't think many of the professional reviews have been critical enough.

                                                                  [–]nmeseth 5ポイント6ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                                  I actually rarely disagree with Joe, but his comments on value proposition are definitely one I disagree with.

                                                                  He compares it to Destiny and Battlefront getting blasted by everyone, but overwatch doesn't. They're all light on content.

                                                                  But destiny and battlefront actually have a lot less. Content really is gameplay, and in a shooter that typically means maps and game modes.

                                                                  My argument is that the variety of heroes, and the gameplay difference they offer massively increases the content in the game. Playing an hour of Roadhog vs Tracer vs Widowmaker is a massively different experience.

                                                                  If blizzard let us vote on getting 5 new heroes or 5 new maps, what would people want more? Personally I'd want the heroes.

                                                                  [–]marianitten 11ポイント12ポイント  (24子コメント)

                                                                  The price is fine. I am one of the first that point price/value in a game but remember that Blizzard said that new maps + new heroes are going to be totally FREE .. .. compare it to the last online only games that drop a lot of Preorder bonuses, DLCs, Season passess in your face

                                                                  You know what you get preordering this game? A skin for Widow.. only that.

                                                                  Loot boxes are ok.. that doesn't change the game at all.

                                                                  [–]incipiency 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                  $40 seems perfectly fair for Overwatch right now, although being the miserly sort that I am I'd hesitate at $60 as a price. Reminds me a bit of games like Quake III Arena with its very singular focus on multiplayer and so the lack of a singleplayer doesn't bother me. Heck, consider the number of multplayer focused games where I've never bothered with the singleplayer anyway (Battlefield and Red Orchestra come to mind) its occlusion combined with the slightly reduced price (On PC anyway) works out perfectly for me and, this being a Blizzard game, I feel confident knowing there's future content in the works as well to hopefully keep it fresh for potentially years to come.

                                                                  [–]ComMcNeil 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                  Well Q3A technically had a singleplayer, but it was not really a substantial one.

                                                                  [–]Logios 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                  You just played against bots, you can do that in OW too.

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                                                                      [–]crazytaco124 11ポイント12ポイント  (36子コメント)

                                                                      People don't seem to appreciate the depth of the game. You can bitch about the limited modes, but it's the way the team compositions work together and interact that makes each match interesting. Quality>Quantity

                                                                      [–]CruelMetatron 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                      Quality and quantity aren't mutual exclusive.

                                                                      [–]Ryethe 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      The team composition argument can fall apart in solo queue though. I've had far, far more fun playing group queues for this reason.

                                                                      I could see people who only solo queue having less fun.

                                                                      [–]Chosenwaffle 9ポイント10ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                                                      I agree. It's a fucking team-based objective shooter. Anything they add will HAVE to boil down to "attacking something and defending something".

                                                                      What I want to know, and something I haven't heard from any naysayers, is what, other than a story mode, would you want to see added to the game.

                                                                      I'm actually NOT on board with a campaign because I actually like the direction they're going with comics and short films. It fits the characters better and makes for a really cool multimedia experience.

                                                                      [–]Rackornar 6ポイント7ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                                      What I want to know, and something I haven't heard from any naysayers, is what, other than a story mode, would you want to see added to the game.

                                                                      Not a naysayer but I wouldn't be opposed to a CTF or Control. Stuff with multiple objectives/more map movement would be interesting.

                                                                      [–]Kryhavok 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      Multi-point control would be sick, or even moving control zone. Hopefully Blizzard has some of these in the works, but seeing all the detail and love they put into every nook and cranny of the current maps, it could take a while.

                                                                      [–]chudaism 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                      Control

                                                                      There is KotH. Do you mean control like 3 points? I think that would be stupidly hard to balance. KotH is already ridiculously unbalanced with Lucio being S+ tier and half the roster being C tier in that mode. I feel 3 point control would have a lot of those same issues.

                                                                      A neutral flag or tug of war mode may work, but I find match length for those game modes is always really high. Blizzard seems to want match length to be sub 15 mins. Closer to 5-10.

                                                                      [–]Rackornar 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                      There is KotH. Do you mean control like 3 points?

                                                                      Yeah I mean Control as in 3 points instead of 1. It might be hard to balance but I feel like they can do it. As it is right now Overwatch basically always funnels the enemy teams into 1 area to fight it out, I just think it might be fun to have basically a split where you have to make the decision to go either x or y.

                                                                      [–]Tortankum 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                      not enough players in the game to have them spread out across 3 points.

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                                                                        [–]RedditMcRedditor 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        other than a story mode, would you want to see added to the game.

                                                                        User created maps.

                                                                        If they want longevity, and more people to see this as value for money, allow the community to make maps.

                                                                        Have a voting system, have a quality control system, have some people be volunteer testers for these maps before you publish them. But the lack of maps is an issue that will start to see them lose players if they don't address it soon.

                                                                        [–]IamtheSlothKing 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        More maps mostly

                                                                        [–]loladin1337 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        What I want to know, and something I haven't heard from any naysayers, is what, other than a story mode, would you want to see added to the game.

                                                                        good maps and a better movement system.

                                                                        [–]Slothman899 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        I would personally just like more maps. I know the new maps and characters will be free, but as of right now I'd say the game is a little light on content because of the distinct lack of maps to play on.

                                                                        [–]gamelord12 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        Which has the prerequisite of a like-minded team for you to see that depth.

                                                                        [–]jamesbiff 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        Not necessarily. Matches where eveyone knows what theyre doing and you push the point and finish the game in 3 minutes are great, dont get me wrong.

                                                                        But the best matches are the ones where youre getting stomped because everyone is playing attacker, but then you pick that one hero that just seems to click with the team comp and you pull off a last minute victory.

                                                                        [–]Xet 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                        The game's not that deep. It's just the novelty factor and a whole bunch of people who haven't played that many shooters which is perpetuating this myth.

                                                                        [–]Ravelord_Nito_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        I mean I've played pretty much every major shooter I can think of today, and I think it's one of the funnest FPSs in a long time. I wouldn't buy it for console, but $40 seems good.

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                                                                            [–]MooseBear 0ポイント1ポイント  (23子コメント)

                                                                            I disagree with a lot of this review and want to go into it, but firstly let me start with the point I agree with.

                                                                            Player reviews vs 'professional' reviews.

                                                                            This is a huge issue and we see it constantly. Readers either want the game they're hyped for to be 10/10 or games they hate (like CoD) to be 2/10 so they can shit on it. They don't want every review to have pros and cons and average around 6/10. Not to mention, you get people who hate FPS reviewing overwatch and then shitting on it and that isn't fair either.

                                                                            Now for the things I disagree with:

                                                                            loot boxes

                                                                            a) It's how Blizzard can make more money to keep developing in a big way, no one forces you to buy them nor do you need them to make the game enjoyable, so just ignore them and move on!

                                                                            b) Joe contradicts himself here. He complains that he got a skin for a character he doesn't play, but later talks about how you have to play every character to win. That's the point, they want you to not just focus on 2-4 characters you like to play but to play strategically. If you get a skin for a character you've never played you're probably going to play it a few rounds at least. You'll see its potential and use it in the future.

                                                                            Price

                                                                            If we compared this to a movie ticket and talked about hours of enjoyment per dollar than Overwatch would be worth $200 easily. That is about the cost of 20 two-hour movie tickets, and you're easily going to play this game for 40 hours. Video games are in a negative bubble where its a race to the bottom. You compare Overwatch to games like Rocket League and you ask why it costs 2-3 times more, but the fact is that video games are undervalued because users wouldn't pay for something at $150

                                                                            Cheese strats

                                                                            These are easy to counter once people learn more about the game-play. Not that big of a deal, but TF2 did do it and I do see the benefits of it.

                                                                            [–]RobotWantsKitty 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                            hours of enjoyment per dollar

                                                                            That's a stupid system. Your favourite game of all time and the 'latest AAA release that was kind of just ok, but technically fun' would be treated equally using this equation. What I'm saying is, it is worthless, because it doesn't reflect the quality of fun, only it's quantity.

                                                                            [–]tlor180 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                            Exactly, I would gladly pay 60 dollars for the next banner saga, or another 10 hour ratchet and clank game, but by his definition, it wouldn't be worth it because I didn't get my minimum number of hours. Yet these games are some of my favorites in recent memory.

                                                                            [–]Trogadorr 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                            Agree with the skin point 100%. I think at level 15 with no additional loot boxes bought I've only gotten two skins, a blue and a legendary Zenyatta skin. I'd never played him or any support characters before so I thought well that sucks, but after giving him and skin a go he's became my favourite character.

                                                                            [–]ComMcNeil 10ポイント11ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                                            That's the point, they want you to not just focus on 2-4 characters you like to play but to play strategically.

                                                                            That is the essence for Overwatch. I guess some people want to main 1 char, get extremly good at it and dominate matches. But the game is not designed that way. Every hero has counters, noone can really carry a match. It is not a MOBA

                                                                            [–]Xet 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                            noone can really carry a match

                                                                            This is patently false. Really skilled fps players can absolutely dominate a game using a hero with high damage output.

                                                                            [–]ThinkBeforeYouTalk 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                            I assumed he meant carry in the MOBA sense, where the team is set up to make 1 character super powerful to the point where they wreck everyone. That simply isn't possible without a very big skill gap because every character can be countered in some way.

                                                                            Obviously if you don't have the skill to counter someone you don't have the skill to win.

                                                                            For example, a hero with high damage can have all of their damage blocked and be killed if a Reinhardt and another attacker work together at doing so. They can also be hooked and 1-shot.

                                                                            [–]mad_mister_march 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                            I have a friend who plays reaper pretty much exclusively unless we're putzing around as a team of 6 <Insert Character>, and even then, the first time he's killed he goes right back to reaper. I get to listen to him complain when he'd get demolished repeatedly by characters who have little problem with Reaper; he'd just keep soldiering on though. I finally pried him away from Reaper for the Shimada bros gametype and he grudgingly admitted to having fun, like it was some huge chore to play--and enjoy --a goofy game mode that's more about crazy fun than winning, instead of getting sniped.

                                                                            I tend to gravitate towards Mei, but I can use all of the characters as the situation calls for it.

                                                                            [–]jamesbiff 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                            I think Mei is a great all rounder, the Defence heroes generally are (hanzo aside). Mei is indispensable for her ice wall ability, it shuts down a vast number of heroes like Widowmaker, Bastion, Junkrat, Mcree (hear his ult? icewall and hide), Hanzo.

                                                                            Shes the one hero i generally feel happy switching to whatever the team comp. Reaper tends to give me trouble though, hes a bit too tough to cheese the icicle headshot like on mcree, genji and tracer.

                                                                            [–]mad_mister_march 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                            Reaper generally doesn't give me trouble. A good tracer will run circles around me though. I agree mei is a great all rounder though. She can sit on objectives a lot longer than most other heros, she can 1v1 any non-tank, her Ult is a CC AoE which can really fuck with a team that's all camped on a control point or payload, and she can no-sell any damaging ult. It's compensated for by low damage, slow movement, and being fairly squishy, and her walls can be as much of a hindrance to your team as to the enemy. (Sorry Reinhardt)

                                                                            Also she can wall in her teammates into spawn if they're being dicks, but I would never ever ever abuse that power. Ever.

                                                                            [–]jamesbiff 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                            Yeah, its not uncommon to have a Widowmaker headshot streak ruined by Mei blocking the lemmings running through a doorway.

                                                                            Once managed to save a Reinhardt who was boosting towards oblivion by stopping him with a wall though.

                                                                            feelsgoodman.jpg

                                                                            [–]Merdrach[🍰] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                            A couple of friends of mine have this thing going on with reinhardt and mei where they use Mei's walls (and some astonishingly good timing) to provide reinhardt with instant sources of charge-squishification.

                                                                            [–]Kryhavok 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                            It also explains why people think the game is light on content. They play 1 or 2 chars, get pretty good with them, and get bored (plus frustrated when they're losing but its "not their fault"). Nevermind that there are 21 heroes to learn that all have their niche, and each bring a different perspective to the gameplay, map routes, objective approaches, etc.

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                                                                              [–]nmeseth 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              Most cheese strats are easy to counter Yeah. They just work right now because at low levels, players refuse to change hero. They'll play 5 losing matches in a row and no one will change hero.

                                                                              That being said, a few comps are ridiculously broken. 5 Zarya 1 Lucio is a super broken comp on defense with people who can somewhat time her bubbles.

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