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[–][10+]PT10[S] 49 points50 points51 points  (24 children)
This sort of racist pseudoscience was a hallmark of early 20th century anti-semitism and eugenics movements.
[–][9]VelveteenAmbush comment score below threshold-32 points-31 points-30 points  (23 children)
Do you disagree with the American Psychological Association that there are group differences in IQ between races? Or is the truth value of the proposition irrelevant to the condemnation?
[–][M]DanglyW 45 points46 points47 points  (17 children)
I think you should read that article carefully, and decide whether or not you think it's saying what you think it's saying.
[–][9]VelveteenAmbush comment score below threshold-27 points-26 points-25 points  (16 children)
I think it confirms that there are substantial differences in IQ between racial groups, and that IQ is a valid predictor of various life outcomes both within and between those groups... I'm sincerely curious: do you think the APA is factually incorrect in making those observations? And do you think it is racist to make those observations?
[–][10+]Blackbeard_ 32 points33 points34 points  (3 children)
It doesn't say that at all. It does discuss differences between two specific groups (out of thousands on our planet), American whites and blacks and even debunks the racist nonsense linked to in the mr_trump subreddit by attributing differences to "caste-like minorities", which immigrants are not (so you don't see the same discrepancy across multiple immigrant generations versus whites in America as you do with respect to African Americans).
In other words, the results of African Americans would not apply to non-American Africans/blacks.
It just shows the harmful effects of multiple generations of institutionalized racism. It's a test for measuring intelligence as American whites understand it, among American whites, applied to a specifically disenfranchised American "caste-like" minority. The American scientific/academic community has seen no worth to IQ measurements or even the test itself in decades. Might want to move past the 1940s.
These same racist assholes tried to argue Jews were inferior (even to Arabs) a century ago and are now using Ashkenazi Jews to argue blacks, Arabs, etc are inferior! News flash, wouldn't that make white European descendents inferior to Jews? Or Asians? So what is there to be racist about? That whites are the 4th or 5th most intelligent group in your own idiotic classification? Christ...
Btw, there are racist Asian subreddits here where they talk about whites the way white supremacists talk about blacks. It's hilarious, I recommend you visit them.
[–][9]VelveteenAmbush comment score below threshold-16 points-15 points-14 points  (2 children)
It does discuss differences between two specific groups
It actually discusses a number of different groups, not just these two.
It just shows the harmful effects of multiple generations of institutionalized racism.
Wouldn't this predict asians and jews to also underperform, then? Japanese Americans were literally put into camps in the United States in the 40s and Jews, as you noted, were the object of intense racism for generations. It doesn't seem like your theory explains the data very well.
So what is there to be racist about? That whites are the 4th or 5th most intelligent group in your own idiotic classification? Christ...
If their arguments aren't lining up with what you'd expect them to argue based on what you perceive their motivations to be, have you considered that you may be misunderstanding their motivations? Some people are genuinely interested in understanding the world, even when the truths that are revealed empirically are unfortunate or inconvenient. The better you can understand the causes of various outcomes, the better equipped you are to address them. As the Catholic Church learned, burning heretics at the stake doesn't change the truth value of their observations.
[–][10+]PT10[S] 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
None of the people in mr_trump are scientists trying to honestly understand human intelligence. They're bigots and white supremacists. The study they linked is not the paper you just linked here. The study they linked was complete bullshit.
[–][2]fallaciousbiology 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
The better you can understand the causes of various outcomes, the better equipped you are to address them.
If you have proposed the cause (or one of the causes) of unfavourable life outcomes is low IQ/intelligence, why are you still bring up race? There are persons of varying levels of intelligence in every putative race, so I fail to see why it is still relevant when it is possible to ascertain an individual's intelligence directly.
Are intelligent black people included in your hypothesis? Are unintelligent white people excluded from your hypothesis? You're juggling two incompatible positions ('race' is the cause vs intelligence is the cause) and need to pick a side.
[–][2]Surtur1313 18 points19 points20 points  (10 children)
I think you lack any semblance of critical thinking. Your reading comprehension is left wanting as well.
[–][9]VelveteenAmbush -4 points-3 points-2 points  (9 children)
I can cite the specific passages from the American Psychological Association task force report if that would help clarify the matter.
African Americans. The relatively low mean of the distribution of African American intelligence test scores has been discussed for many years. Although studies using different tests and samples yield a range of results, the Black mean is typically about one standard deviation (about 15 points) below that of Whites (Jensen, 1980; Loehlin et at., 1975; Reynolds et at., 1987). The difference is largest on those tests (verbal or nonverbal) that best represent the general intelligence factor g (Jensen, 1985).
Test Bias. ... From an educational point of view, the chief function of mental tests is as predictors (Section 2). Intelligence tests predict school performance fairly well, at least in American schools as they are now constituted. Similarly, achievement tests are fairly good predictors of performance in college and postgraduate settings. Considered in this light, the relevant question is whether the tests have a "predictive bias" against Blacks. Such a bias would exist if African American performance on the criterion variables (school achievement, college GPA, etc.) were systematically higher than the same subjects' test scores would predict. This is not the case. The actual regression lines (which show the mean criterion performance for individuals who got various scores on the predictor) for Blacks do not lie above those for Whites; there is even a slight tendency in the other direction (Jensen, 1980; Reynolds & Brown, 1984). Considered as predictors of future performance, the tests do not seem to be biased against African Americans.
[–][10+]The King of CucksTomatoHere 15 points16 points17 points  (8 children)
Get back when you understand sociology. And then, read the actual article.
[–][9]VelveteenAmbush -4 points-3 points-2 points  (7 children)
I have read the article. These quotes are from the article. They support my claim, which was that there are substantial differences in IQ between racial groups, and that IQ is a valid predictor of various life outcomes both within and between those groups.
Again, this is the American Psychological Association. Do you think the APA is racist, or do you think the sentences that I bolded above are fundamentally correct? Or can it be both at once? I'm authentically curious how people on this sub think about this stuff.
[–][10+]The King of CucksTomatoHere 20 points21 points22 points  (4 children)
Again, this is the American Psychological Association. Do you think the APA is racist, or do you think the sentences that I bolded above are fundamentally correct? Or can it be both at once?
No, I don't think that.
It is you who aren't able to interpret the study properly. Environmental factors impact intelligence severely, and you cannot deny that. If a study doesn't control for these factors, it isn't a study of the cause, but simply of the state.
[–][9]VelveteenAmbush -2 points-1 points0 points  (3 children)
If a study doesn't control for these factors, it isn't a study of the cause, but simply of the state.
Yeah that's fine, I never claimed otherwise. But it also means that if a company has a disproportionate underrepresentation of black people in upper management, it doesn't necessarily reflect racism by the company, it could simply be that, because of the intelligence gap, black people are underrepresented in the pool of plausible applicants. Or that if black students underperform in schools, we shouldn't conclude that the school is necessarily racist -- because you'd expect them to underperform given the unfortunate reality described by the American Psychological Association.
[–][10+]TheDeadManWalks 16 points17 points18 points  (0 children)
Goddamn you're good at ignoring the real facts. I'll spell it out real nice and simple for you so you can't pretend you don't understand again. The study's talking about American blacks having a deficit because of generations of institutionalized racism, not all black people being less intelligent despite how much you'd like it to mean that.
[–][10+]archiesteel 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
You're living proof whites aren't fundamentally smarter than any other group.
PS You're the reason Trump will lose the election! Keep it up!
[–][M]DanglyW 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I think you should put attention to the bits where they address confounding factors, and I think you should pay attention to the dates referenced in this review. There are newer publications to draw from - poke around pubmed and see what you find. Additionally, take a look at our sidebar for more information.
Basically, differences between racial groups is hugely complicated, and subject to far more confounds than even admitted in the review you linked. Whixh basically says 'tuere are alot of variables confounding this issue'.
[–][10+]Blackbeard_ 12 points13 points14 points  (1 child)
That link says what we've already known. Variance within ethnic groups (genetically a real thing, unlike "races") is far greater than variance between groups.
[–][M]DanglyW 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
This is also something I've written about ad nauseum on our sidebar.
[–][10+]Barry_Scotts_Cat 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
The linked "article" isn't from that
[–][3]Ahabs_Pegleg 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Why are you linking to a 20 year old publication? Are you not even familiar with anything more recent?
[–][A]table_fireplace 37 points38 points39 points  (1 child)
Aaaaand they've reached r/Coontown levels already. Wow.
[–][10+]Cianistarle 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
Well, that didn't take long.
I imagine even trump must think 'what the hell is wrong with these people'? But that is probably followed by, 'cool, we've got the racist vote tied up!'
I hope I'm around long enough to watch more and more of these subs get shut down.
[–][10+]ParagonRenegade 17 points18 points19 points  (2 children)
Isn't Mankind Quarterly a publication that supports scientific racism?
This is a source they're relying on?
lol
[–][10+]tawtaw 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
MQ was founded by genuine British neo-Nazis who set out to save 'the Nordic races' from 'mongrelization'. Several of MQ's longtime editorial board were involved directly in the creation of German 'racial hygiene' pseudoscience. Their American counterparts routinely became the academic face of attempts to overturn Brown v. Board of Education or halt busing if that failed. Basically, anyone who cites them and doesn't mention this is either a naif or a white supremacist.
[–][10+]Barry_Scotts_Cat 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
Academic journal article
Mankind Quarterly
Seems legit
[–]NYPD-32 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
/r/mr_trump, another subreddit born from jcm's incompetence lol
[–][10+]MG87 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
From Wikipedia:
Many of those who constitute the publication's contributors, Board of Directors, and publishers are connected to the academic hereditarian tradition. The journal has been criticized by some as being political and strongly right-leaning,[8] racist or fascist.[9][10] The publisher counters that much of Anthropology is politicised in the opposite way and that those who count amongst the most vocal critics of the journal often identify with the Radical tradition in Anthropology.[11] Some critics argued that the journal's editorial practice was biased and misleading,[12] leading to a rejoinder from those criticized.
[–][10+]chodpaba 0 points1 point2 points  (20 children)
Isn't r/Mr_Trump a parody subreddit?
[–][M]WorseThanHipster 25 points26 points27 points  (12 children)
Not any more than /u/The_Donald
[–][10+]chodpaba -4 points-3 points-2 points  (11 children)
I think it is supposed to be a Poe of r/The_Donald.
[–][M]WorseThanHipster 26 points27 points28 points  (10 children)
And so is /r/The_Donald, just funny joaks! Don't be so easily offended!
Yeah, no. It was made by former /r/The_Donald mods who left/were removed because of infighting due to how much racism/anti-semitism/completely non-trump related content they wanted to allow. The mods of both subs, some scorned, some not, have admitted as much.
The "can't tell if satire" is by design. It's a mechanism to get away with more hatespeech. "I wasn't really saying all muslims are terrorists and should be arrested/deported/killed. I WAS JUST TRIGGERING SJW'S!" Honestly, Mr_Trump is no different from The_donald before they started trying to 'raise the standard.'
[–][10+]baronvoncarson 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
It is European 2.0
[–][10+]chodpaba -5 points-4 points-3 points  (8 children)
Well then, I would have to say that somebody has been reading 'Negative Dialectics'.
[–][10+]TheDeadManWalks 3 points4 points5 points  (7 children)
In this context, Negative Dialectics is about as outdated as the 'sources' racists use to try and prove they're in the right.
[–][10+]chodpaba 0 points1 point2 points  (6 children)
Negative Dialectics does not actually require sources.
[–][10+]TheDeadManWalks 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
I didn't say it required sources, I said it was outdated.
[–][10+]chodpaba 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
Is Anonymous outdated?
I would go so far as to say that Adorno is the spiritual grandfather of Anonymous.
[–][10+]TheDeadManWalks 3 points4 points5 points  (3 children)
The term 'spiritual grandfather' itself and the fact you have to cite a modern equivalent suggests that the concept is outdated.
[–][10+]MDFification 19 points20 points21 points  (2 children)
Only to the extent that Donald Trump is a parody candidate, and his supporters are parody citizens.
[–][deleted]  (1 child)
[deleted]
    [–][10+]MDFification 13 points14 points15 points  (0 children)
    Memes, shitposting and admitting that you're a circlejerk does not automatically make something a parody. People are capable of being humorous without lampooning their own viewpoint. It is not a sub intended for parody, and nothing indicates that it is.
    [–][1]WhereofWeCannotSpeak 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
    Unfortunately, it is not.
    [–][10+]Barry_Scotts_Cat 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    No, after /r/European got quaranteened, they created another sub as "backup"
    [–][10+]chodpaba 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    I get it, but I don't get it.
    [–][10+]SnapshillBot 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
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