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Why the irrational fear of firearms? (self.AskUK)

OnThatPizzaSwag が 投稿

Why is there such an irrational fear of firearms in the UK?

I think fear of firearms is very similar to fear of flying in that statistics prove both are very safe but those who are afraid of either one will never be convinced by those statistics. People who are afraid of flying will drive somewhere instead even though it means they're statistically hundreds of times more likely to die by doing so.

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[–]Killahills 11ポイント12ポイント  (19子コメント)

Why the irrational love of firearms?

[–]Redemption47 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It goes PEW PEW, so kewl. Also it's good pieces of engineering, plus freedom.

[–]pizzan0mics 6ポイント7ポイント  (18子コメント)

It's not an irrational fear of firearms, it's a perfectly rational combined fear of both the dangerous and the unknown.

Firearms are dangerous and I've never even seen or been close to a real one in real life so of course I'd be bloody scared if I saw on the table in front of me.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (17子コメント)

It's not an irrational fear of firearms, it's a perfectly rational combined fear of both the dangerous and the unknown.

You're ignoring cold hard statistics though... that's what makes it irrational.

International media gives immense coverage of every air disaster but you never hear about the thousands of auto accidents that occur every day, so many are terrified of flying even though it's the safest mode of transport. Same goes for the media coverage of gun violence.

[–]Magnehtic 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

That logic makes no sense. How can gun violence be either safe or dangerous?

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (8子コメント)

Not gun violence, gun ownership.

[–]the_sameness 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

Because children having access to guns is a great idea?

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (6子コメント)

If they're properly trained, I don't see why not.

[–]the_sameness 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

A unicorn!

99.99% of gun owners are not properly trained. Show me how many actually store guns safely.

By safe I mean out if easy reach of anyone who shouldn't be handling it.

For a troll your arguments are pretty weak, but I guess that's why you need to protect yourself with a gun.

[–]vln 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

For a troll your arguments are pretty weak, but I guess that's why you need to protect yourself with a gun.

Genuine laugh-out-loud. :)

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

99.99% of gun owners are not properly trained.

Want to cite your source? I've found civilian gun owners to be better trained than most police officers in the US.

[–]the_sameness 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same source as most of the "facts" you gave pulled out of your arse

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's your source of the % of US police officers properly trained? That doesn't just mean knowing how to load and fire the thing, but how to de-escalate situations, of when it's a very bad idea to draw a weapon, of how to help people suffering severe mental illness without violence, etc...

[–]vln 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Teach kids to use a gun responsibly, and then (if) they reach that level, they can go to school and learn how to hold a pencil. Genius.

[–]skunkie_jumm 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

The cold hard statistics say we are doing okay, mate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

First of all, only the top article is relevant. Second of all, you'll notice that the countries with the highest homicide rates in the world have very strict gun control.

[–]vln 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

only the top article is relevant

Accidental deaths aren't relevant? Does that apply to planes and cars, too? I do hope you're going to be consistent.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Overall homicide rates are what we should be concerned with, not firearm-related deaths. If a country has 1,000 homicides a year, does it matter what tool is used as the murder weapon? Whether it's 999 guns and 1 knife or 1 knife and 999 guns is irrelevant.

That's why I always laugh when Brits go on about how low "firearm homicides" are when the UK is one of the most violent nations on Earth.

[–]Spudgun888 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

when the UK is one of the most violent nations on Earth.

You're very entertaining.

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

when the UK is one of the most violent nations on Earth.

[Bill Hicks]Chirp chirp...chirp chirp...chirp chirp...[/Bill Hicks]

Do you realise that coming into /r/AskUK and telling us what it's like her is just, well, a little bit odd?

As I said in another reply, go and do some basic research. In particular, how comparing 'violent crime' from one country to another is fraught with difficulty, both due to definitions, and methods of reporting and counting.

[–]Jonalbe 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fear of something that is designed to kill is irrational? Perfect /r/ShitAmericansSay material

[–]Magnehtic 4ポイント5ポイント  (21子コメント)

I don't want to get shot.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (20子コメント)

Okay? People who drive instead of flying don't want to die in a plane crash.

[–]Magnehtic 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't even know what that argument is.

[–]vln 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

The argument is "Second Amendment RAAAAHHHH", I think.

[–]Jonalbe 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

The purpose of a gun is to shoot. The purpose of a plane is to not crash. I don't see how these two things are comparable.

[–]vln 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

Maybe the OP should just be in favour of really shitty guns?!

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (10子コメント)

So is self-defense not a legitimate use of a firearm?

[–]_splatterpuss_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

How do crime and homicide rates differ between our country without guns, and your country with guns? Surely you must be aware of these "cold hard statistics"...

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

What about Mexico? They have strict gun control and their homicide rate is more than 10 times that of the US?

What about Switzerland? Their gun laws are far more lax than the UK and their homicide rate is much lower.

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What about Mexico? They have strict gun control and their homicide rate is more than 10 times that of the US?

America shipped a load of guns to them, for starters.

[–]Jonalbe 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Why are you talking about all these other examples.

In the the UK we have stricter gun laws and our homicide rate is much lower than the US.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Correlation doesn't imply causation. Mexico and Switzerland prove that other variables are at play besides gun laws.

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yet you don't want to actually consider other variables, all you want to know is GUNS GUNS GUNS SELF-DEFENCE HONEST.

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The purpose is to shoot. The firearm does not decide what at. People not having guns is a good way to avoid needing to shoot a gun.

[–]Killahills 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Why are you persisting with that wank argument? Planes are a safe mode of transport that occasionally have accidents. Guns are designed to kill things, they are SUPPOSED to be dangerous, it's the whole fucking point of guns.

[–]vln 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He'd be on a slightly better foundation if he was talking about cars. Slightly.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Guns are designed to kill things

Is that not a legitimate use of firearms then? Self-defense?

[–]frugilegus 3ポイント4ポイント  (19子コメント)

They're seen as unnecessary for the vast majority of people, handguns and automatic weapons as entirely unnecessary for civilians. Small calibre rifles and shotguns are useful for farmers and game shooting (which is for farmers and the posh), but most people won't ever encounter them.

The loss of a few people's enjoyment of sport is seen as a fair price for the removal of harmful weapons from society. It's a similar attitude to controlling access to poisons or explosives. What's the benefit of making them available to people who don't really need them compared with the costs?

(I speak as somebody who does shoot clays occasionally.)

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (18子コメント)

The loss of a few people's enjoyment of sport is seen as a fair price for the removal of harmful weapons from society.

I think the bigger issue is your loss of ability to defend yourselves.

[–]Killahills 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Defend ourselves from what?? We are not afraid like you are because virtually nobody has guns here.

[–]vln 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think

I'm not sure you do.

[–]ADozenNeverNudes 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

But people here simply don't want guns everywhere. The UK has collectively agreed as a society that by strict gun control it is safer for everyone overall. The firearm homicide rate is incredibly low (less than 50 a year usually).

To put that in perspective, US police shoot more US citizens a year than UK criminals shoot UK citizens even after accounting for population differences. It really is not us with the problem with guns, it is you.

[–]satanspanties 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

I think the bigger issue is your loss of ability to defend yourselves.

Against what, exactly? Teenagers who also don't have guns?

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

Knives, bottles, bats, fists, etc.

[–]vln 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

"Hey, that building's on fire....quick, get some petrol."

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Terrible analogy.

You don't fight fire with fire. You do fight violence with violence.

The only question is whether you call 911 and wait 10 minutes for a police officer to use violence or whether you do so yourself.

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

You don't fight fire with fire. You do fight violence with violence.

If you want a fight, you're going to get hurt.

911

999

Twit.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you want a fight, you're going to get hurt.

Huh?

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Crikey, even that is too confusing for you?

Walk away from fights. It doesn't make you less of a person.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So if somebody breaks into my home I should walk away? And what if my family members are still inside the home? Should I still walk away?

If you enter my home uninvited you're getting shot. End of story. Using deadly force against violent intruders doesn't make me less of a person either.

[–]satanspanties 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Police officers don't use violence either, they use restraints.

[–]satanspanties 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh shit, he's getting the Dr Pepper out. Run for your lives, it's a two litre!

[–]budapest_budapest 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

There's also a lot less people we need to defend ourselves against. You are far more likely to encounter a random person who shoots you dead because of their anger issues or insanity, than you are to be targeted by a criminal.

I'm quite happy with a situation where the only people who have guns are very dangerous criminals. Because the chances of me meeting people like that are slim to none on a daily basis, and if I did I'd be fucked whether I had a gun or not.

On the other hand, I'm far more likely to end up in an abusive relationship, have a family member suffer a mental breakdown, or get into a minor altercation with someone with a temper. And those are the people most likely to shoot me if they had a gun to hand.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

quite happy with a situation where the only people who have guns are very dangerous criminals

This pretty much sums up the British view on guns. I'm just surprised you're so open about it.

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's common sense. Should you encounter them, they're very unlikely to shoot you.

You do agree that less violence is a good thing, right? Just so we're on the same page.

[–]frugilegus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Right, we all agree with that. There are also a vanishingly small number of very dangerous criminals around.

[–]KhajiitLikeToSneak 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

From whom?

[–]the_sameness 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

There is no irrational fear.

The lack of guns has come from the rational decision that we don't want people killing each other. One school shooting was all it took to make the country decide to restrict ownership.

Just because you septics have had YET ANOTHER school shooting... doesn't this kinda suggest theres a better way?

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

One school shooting was all it took to make the country decide to restrict ownership.

Worth pointing out that restrictions had already been tightened up after Hungerford, a few years earlier.

[–]the_sameness 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

True, but that was the pivotal one

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very much so, agreed with that. Some of the pro-gun Yank myths imply that we were just like them until Dunblane, and then everyone's weapons were confiscated. Paranoia & conspiracy theories that Obama wants to take everyone's guns, that's why lists of who owns them are bad etc.

[–]vln 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

What irrational fear? I've shot a gun. I have a great respect for skilled and appropriate use of them, just as with any other tool, no matter how potentially lethal.

Restricting firearm ownership according to need is a rational approach, to ensurie that injuries from firearms, both malicious and accidental, are kept to a minimum. Yes, it's not the only possible approach, but it works pretty well for us.

We also have a very rational suspicion of routine arming of police. An unarmed (with very specific exceptions) police force can only exist when the prevalence of firearms, both legal and illegal, is low. Again, it works pretty well for us, and note that every time they're surveyed, a vast majority of police officers say that they don't want to be armed as a matter of routine.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Again, it works pretty well for us, and note that most police officers don't want to be armed.

I bet this unarmed police officer in Paris felt differently in his final moments.

[–]WronglyPronounced 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

Police officers in France are armed...

[–]vln 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hah hah, whoops!

Also, does the OP understand that a single police officer being killed in the line of duty is national headline news, and one being shot makes the news for a week and a funeral attended by hundreds of colleagues, and the elite of the country's police? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9584168/Nicola-Hughes-funeral-tributes-to-fallen-PC-who-decided-not-to-be-a-bystander.html

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Apparently not all of them.

A reporter for Britain's Telegraph newspaper in Paris told Sky News that the first two officers to arrive, who were apparently unarmed, fled after seeing gunmen armed with automatic weapons and possibly a grenade launcher.

[–]vln 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

So there were unarmed officers, and they didn't get shot? Well well well...

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

He was executed. Took a 7.62x39 through the fucking face from about two feet away. Watch the video.

[–]vln 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Apart from that you've ignored the facts presented in the above replies: No. I'm not watching it. You may take some perverse pleasure in it, but I don't.

[–]skunkie_jumm 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

I wouldn't dream of telling other countries what they should do re gun control, because all cultures are different and what works in one place might not necessarily work somewhere else, but the fact we are the eighth safest country in the world for gun-related deaths (Source) shows maybe we are not being that irrational.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (9子コメント)

That's not necessarily a result of gun control though. Many other things contribute to violent crime rates.

[–]skunkie_jumm 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

Yes but Occam's razor and all that...

And the overwhelming majority of the population are happy with the way things are, so if it ain't broke...

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (7子コメント)

And the overwhelming majority of the population are happy with the way things are, so if it ain't broke...

It is broke, though. You just won't realize until it's too late.

[–]skunkie_jumm 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Okay last comment I'm making on this shit-show of a troll-thread: living in Britain I am four times less likely than you to be murdered and forty-five times less likely to die by gun-related death than if I lived in the USA. But we are the ones who've got it wrong.

Incidentally...

It has been [0][0][0] days since the last US college shooting.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

living in Britain I am four times less likely than you to be murdered and forty-five times less likely to die by gun-related death than if I lived in the USA

Okay... so what do you attribute Mexico and Switzerland to? Mexico has strict gun control and their homicide rate is more than 10 times greater than that of the US. Switzerland is gun friendly and has a much lower homicide rate than the UK.

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

America's "war on drugs" has devasted Mexico.

You've shat on your doorstep, don't try and pretend otherwise.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

And what about the rest of Central and South America? Load of gun control and an unspeakable amount of gun violence.

Is America to blame for all of it?

[–]vln 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, if we're talking about the devastation caused by the drug trade and related crime across swathes of the continents, yes, the USA is highly culpable.

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Meaningless. Have you ever experienced the things we're talking about?

[–]Jonalbe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tell us what will happen since you're so enlightened.

[–]LittleGreenBastard 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

Well guns are designed to kill. Planes get me places and knives have a myriad of uses but guns don't do anything useful.

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (8子コメント)

guns don't do anything useful

So why do the police have them then?

[–]vln 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Which police? The ones policing by force (e.g. America), or those policing by consent (e.g. UK)?

[–]OnThatPizzaSwag[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

How can you enforce the law by consent?

"Go away, officer. I don't consent to being arrested."

[–]Spudgun888 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have a read, you might just learn something.

[–]vln 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't be so lazy: go away and do your own basic research into some basic concepts before acting like you know how the world works.

If you think that the UK policing system doesn't work, please explain why the country hasn't descended into anarchy.

[–]ADozenNeverNudes 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

95% of police don't have guns in the UK - which is how both the majority of the public and the police themselves want it.

[–]LittleGreenBastard 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

The vast, vast majority of them don't. It's only the specially trained armed response units and guards for important places (Nuclear power stations, airports etc) that do. They have them because there are some threats that can only be stopped with force. But they're few and far between, and I seriously doubt I'll ever see one in person.
The police are well trained, there to help and have oversight from the government and organisations. None of those things apply to me.
It's like how hospitals have diacetylmorphine. I have no need for it personally, and there's no reason I should have access to it. There are some cases when it's necessary sure, but it's left to the experts and professionals.

[–]vln 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's only the specially trained armed response units and guards for important places (Nuclear power stations, airports etc) that do

PSNI are routinely armed, and officers are permitted to carry their weapons while off-duty. It goes without saying, though, that Northern Ireland quite a separate case, and they will also be thoroughly trained in using the weapons in genuine self-defence.