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[IN] 'Christian Only' Stable (self.legaladvice)

ThemHolyHorses が 投稿

[Indiana] - Would it be legal for a stable to only allow Christians to board their horses there?

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[–]phedre 86ポイント87ポイント  (9子コメント)

I would looooove to hear how this particular brand of crazy thinks religion impacts stable operations.

[–]felixgolden 69ポイント70ポイント  (3子コメント)

A women opened a bicycle shop in a retail space rented from one of my clients. The "t" in the name of her business on the sign was a cross. When my client tried to introduce me to her, as I held out my hand, and she turned to my client, asking if I was if I was born-again. He sheepishly acknowledged that not only was I not, but I wasn't a christian. She left me hanging and refused to even talk to me. That business didn't last more than a few months.

[–]dmar2 63ポイント64ポイント  (2子コメント)

The market will often correct these problems faster than the law. I'd be surprised if "Jockeys for Jesus" lasts long enough to be sued.

[–]Shredder13 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

There are so many instances of thinking people can just start a small, no-name business and then pick and choose who their clientele is, only to watch the business fail after a short period. It's almost like limiting your income is bad, or something.

[–]nderhjs 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unfortunately, delusional people will delusion. If you ask the failed Christian stable owner why her business failed, she will either blame it on the non believers sabotaging her business, or the slightly less horrible but still horrible excuse "it wasn't in Gods plan for me, I suppose"

[–]wookiee42 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can't be having the stable turning into Sodom and Gomorrah now can we?

[–]MrMediumStuff 32ポイント33ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think you've fully considered the potential revenue from the human sized salt licks that could be gained in this scenario.

[–]LKdubbs 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

And with this comment, years of being forced to go to Sunday school has suddenly paid off.

[–]TheIronMark 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I dunno, they are pretty big on mangers.

[–]travio 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Didn't God say not to yoke oneself with non believers? Just switch it from oxen to horses and bam! Religious freedom!

[–]NapalmenatorQuality Contributor 32ポイント33ポイント  (24子コメント)

No

[–]CiticopQuality Contributor 71ポイント72ポイント  (11子コメント)

Something something something no room at the inn.

[–]BlatantConservative 18ポイント19ポイント  (9子コメント)

Is it religious discrimination if the only person not allowed to stay in the inn is Christ himself?

[–]Knever 14ポイント15ポイント  (8子コメント)

This reminded me that it would be discriminating against Judaism since Jesus is Jewish. Makes me chuckle. I wonder if there are any other religions whose icons are of a different religion.

[–]Hatter79 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Buddha was of the Hindu faith. Buddhism literally represents an alternative path to enlightenment.

[–]frankevin -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't know a lot about Christianity, but Jesus was Jewish?

But Judaism doesn't recognize Jesus? How does that work?

Edit: Accidentally a very important word

[–]jakobpunkt 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

Judaism teaches that one day the Messiah will come. Jesus was a Jew 2000 years ago and some other Jews thought he was the Messiah. They were the early Christians. All the early Christians were Jews. Eventually Christianity opened up to include non-Jews and ultimately they became the majority.

Meanwhile, the rest of the Jews did not and still do not believe Jesus was the Messiah, and are still waiting for him to come.

[–]ccmulligan 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Jesus was ethnically Jewish and a rabbi. There's some evidence he saw himself as a reformer and not the prophesied Jewish messiah.

Jews consider him a rabbi but not the Messiah.

[–]TanCarpet -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

No, Jews do not consider him a rabbi. Z

[–]estolad 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That kinda depends on what Jews you're talking to, and what your definition of rabbi is. It isn't really clear cut enough to definitively say one way or the other

[–]TanCarpet 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No it's pretty clear. No rabbi would tell Jews to permanently abrogate Jewish law.

Throughout the Christian "New Testament," Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

For more info:http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html?mobile=yes

And from Wikipedia

Judaism generally views Jesus as one of a number of Jewish Messiah claimants who have appeared throughout history.[1] Jesus is viewed as having been the most influential, and consequently the most damaging, of all false messiahs.[2] However, since the mainstream Jewish belief is that the messiah has not yet come and the Messianic Age is not yet present, the total rejection of Jesus as either messiah or deity has never been a central issue for Judaism.

[–]HelpMyBabySleep 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

When Jesus was born, Christianity hadn't been invented yet. Think about it.

Christianity developed as a sect of Judaism, just one among lots of other sects. Originally, you needed to be Jewish to join. Then there was a whole big discussion and they decided to let non-Jews in. (Check out Paul the Apostle and his snappy Epistle to the Galatians.)

Jews who didn't join Christianity don't believe its tenets. If they believed in Jesus being the messiah, they'd stop being Jewish and start being Christians. Makes sense, right?

It's fascinating stuff. The Historical Figure of Jesus by E. P. Sanders is a nice neutral easy-to-digest book, if you really want to get into it.

[–]Urgullibl 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's oxen and donkeys.

[–]fallen243 20ポイント21ポイント  (7子コメント)

Just for my own curiosity, what if they declared it a "private riding club" with stables available for rent on premises, then aren't they allowed to discriminate?

[–]wookiee42 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think so -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusta_National_Golf_Club

I also think they could discriminate in this case if they were operated by a church or mission group.

[–]82364 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

How the hell did they get away with black caddies for white golfers for so damn long???

[–]fallen243 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because it was Georgia in the 50's?

[–]Grownmanbarz 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not as simple as a "yes" or "no", but a private club plus affiliation with a religion would definitely be the way to position something like this.

[–]ccmulligan 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes they are. But you have to incorporate differently and run the business differently.

[–]ThemHolyHorses[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Say the 'Christians Only' part was not explicitly stated but implicitly understood. What would that change?

What would someone, who feels they are being excluded based on religion, have to do to demonstrate that discrimination is taking place?

[–]NapalmenatorQuality Contributor 25ポイント26ポイント  (2子コメント)

Discrimination based on religion is illegal. Whether or not it is posted. You can be sued for illegal discrimination.

[–]ThemHolyHorses[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do I have to sue to right the situation? Is there some authority I can report them to?

[–]NapalmenatorQuality Contributor 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have you been discriminated against based on your religion?

[–]swalsh411Quality Contributor 15ポイント16ポイント  (11子コメント)

Is this a business that advertises to the public or a private person who invites their friends?

[–]ThemHolyHorses[S] 14ポイント15ポイント  (10子コメント)

As I understand it, the lady who runs the business (I assume it's a business as she intends hire people and make a profit and such) invited her friends to start boarding with her. She asked her friends to invite their friends to this 'Christian Only' barn.

I haven't seen any of their advertisements yet but it is my understanding that she intends to compete for boarders from other stables.

[–]Knever 23ポイント24ポイント  (9子コメント)

I think you may have to ask for the service and then be denied because of religious reasons before you can report this to anyone or try to sue. I may be wrong but it wouldn't hurt to call up and ask if you can board your Satanic horse there and see what she says.

[–]Bob_Sconce 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

Obvious question: Why would he want to?

Yay, you forced a business owner to do something they didn't want to do, and now you're stuck boarding your horse there.

Sometimes things like that are just better left alone.

[–]Knever 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

The problem with leaving it alone is that it makes think they can get away with it, and other people will adopt that lifestyle. Soon there will be Muslim-only stables, Jewish-only stables, Atheist-only stables, etc.

[–]Bob_Sconce 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Eh.... I bet they they go out of business within 2 years, even if nobody challenges them on it. Recognize that a big portion of Christians aren't even going to be interested in that.

[–]Knever 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah, but it's the principle.

[–]gotoblivion 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not all hills are worth dying on.

[–]cmd-t 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ending discrimination / racism / sexism are pretty good hills though.

[–]KomradeKitsch 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is there such a dearth of discrimination / racism / sexism that going after a Christians-only stable would be the most productive use of one's time though? Who's the marginalized class that's impacted here? Non-Christian horse owners?

Call me crazy, but there may just be people out there who are more disenfranchised than those who have enough money to spend on an absurdly expensive hobby.

[–]ipinfo 60ポイント61ポイント  (15子コメント)

Followup Question: Can you make it so that you'll only allow them if the horses have been baptised?

[–]ContextOfAbuse 28ポイント29ポイント  (14子コメント)

I only allow Jewish horses, personally. (But please don't ask how we confirm their Jewishness).

[–]NapalmenatorQuality Contributor 12ポイント13ポイント  (8子コメント)

Circumcision

[–]ContextOfAbuse 45ポイント46ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ew, you pervert. They just wear yarmulkes!

[–]archangel087 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well played, but what about the mares?

[–]King_PosnerQuality Contributor 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

wigs or shawls, depending on their specific ethnic partition.

[–]gardenawe 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is it possible to circumcise a horse ? I don't have any knowledge of horse dick .

[–]williambellwisdo 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

"I ... have ... knowledge of horse dick." - gardenawe 2016

[–]_Rogue_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

fun fact: they're often castrated.

[–]Evan_Th 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

/u/VerseBot [Galatians 5:12 ESV]

[–]VerseBot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Galatians 5:12 | English Standard Version (ESV)

[12] I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

Code | /r/VerseBot | Contact Devs | Usage | Changelog | Stats | Set a Default Translation

All texts provided by BibleGateway and Bible Hub.

Mistake? Evan_Th can edit or delete this comment.

[–]Urgullibl 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

How can a non-kosher animal be Jewish?

[–]rabbifuente 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Humans aren't kosher

[–]Urgullibl 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not with that attitude.

[–]tegeusCromis -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

How can a human be vegetarian?

[–]Urgullibl 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Easy there, Hannibal Lecterstien.

[–]rap31264 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

NLA but how does one know what a Christian is? Will they take references or something?

[–]cisxuzuul 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

They stomp their hooves yes or no when quizzed about Deuteronomy

[–]km89 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, that's easy. You just ask the horse.

[–]rap31264 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you owners Christians horse? NAAYYY

[–]joepaulpavlin 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

One could make the claim that their specific sect of Christianity prevents them from serving sinners of other religions or non religious people. You could make nearly any claim under Indiana's RFRA and use it as a defense for why you served only this group or that group. So I would think the answer is yes it is legal.

[–]wookiee42 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, the laws are a bit strange right now. It'll probably be a while before the Supreme Court clarifies things.

[–]joepaulpavlin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah maybe. I really don't know how you clarify undue burden on religion because it doesn't have to be a written religion it doesn't have to be followed religion you can just make it up on the Fly which is ultimately the problem.

[–]ccmulligan 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

No. It's illegal to discriminate in public accommodations on the basis of religion.

If they want to do that, they have to create a private riding club.

[–]Alybank 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's legal, they would be considered a "private riding club" and can refuse to anyone they don't like. Many times these "private riding clubs" are like country clubs and are invite only and even once you are invited they have to approve you. It's annoying, and too uppity for me, but not illegal.

[–]Do35N 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is more common than you think. Most people are smart enough not to advertise their discrimination.

[–]cisxuzuul 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

WWJD? He'd let horses of all denominations live together.

[–]AreaLeftBlank -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wonder if this would fall under a business having the right to refuse service to someone?