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Charged with drunk driving while in passenger seat next to driver. don't know what to do?? (self.legaladvice)

oui_random が 投稿

this happened Friday night two weeks ago. oh yeah and I live in massachusettes, USA.

Me and a buddy went to a bunch of bars, and in retrospect I shouldn't have let him drive us around because he probably wasn't OK to be driving (well I know he wasn't because he was arrested). We left a bar and were on our way to meet some friends at a club and were pulled over.

The office was really rude, she walked up and said "licence and registration" in a mean way. My friend asked "what's the matter ma'am?" and she just said "license and registration" again and nothing else (isthat legal to not answer him??"). While he was getting his registration she told me "i'll need your licence too"?? I asked if I was under arrest and she said no. He handed her his registration sheet and lisence and she asked ghim if it was his car (it is).

(SIDE NOTE: this IS my friends car, he got it from his dad. All his paperwork is up to date, but it's a car that used to be for his dad's Drivers Ed business for kids, before it shut down. so it has a steering wheel and brake on the passenger side - but NO GAS PETAL!!! I didn't even know the petal worked or the wheel either!!)

She came back a few minutes later and asked gim to get out of the car, and started I guess a fierld sobriety test did. She put him in hand cuffs after like 10 miniutes and had him sit down, and then asked me to get out of the car. She asked me to take a breathalyzer which I agreed to, since I was just a passenger, and it was .11. She told me that jay was being arrested, and the car was being impounded, so I would have to call somebody for a ride. I thought that was the end of it ,but she said I would be getting a ticket in the mail. I asked what for but she said that the mail would explain everything. Is that legal??? To charge somebody with something through the mail, and not do not to tell them what it is??

Well, I got a ticket in the mail (summons it says on top) at the end of last week saying I have a court date for 3 weeks from now and I'm being charged with operating under the influence. I don't know what to do!!! Do I need to get a lawyer for this? I have $148.88 in my savings account right now and I have a limited income. is this a big deal?? And did she do anything illegal?? Can I get the ticket canceleld or something if I call the court because she took so long to send it?

I don't know what Jay's charges are, we actually haven't talked since it happened. I don't know if he got off??

I NEVER touched the steering wheel or the brake on the passenger side, I honestly didn't even know they worked (I know now that they do). and like I said there's NO GAS on that side so I couldn't even have driven it to begin with!!!

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[–]thepatmanQuality Contributor[M] [スコア非表示] stickied comment (0子コメント)

Locked due to crossposting to /r/bestof and influx of trolls.

[–]PM-Me-BeerQuality Contributor 368ポイント369ポイント  (21子コメント)

I would hire an attorney for this one, or plead not guilty and request a public defender. This is actually a really interesting situation. A brief review of MA case law seems to indicate that operation of a motor vehicle requires you to take some action that sets the vehicle in motion. Without shifting gears or using a gas pedal, I don't see how you could do that. Similarly, I couldn't find a case that handled two operators. You may be blazing a trail here in the MA courts, so you really need an attorney to go down this path with you.

To your benefit, Massachusetts seems to have pretty favorable statutes and case law on DUI's that require operation of a vehicle. In other states with lower "actual physical control" standards, I'd think that your odds would be worse.

[–]Kangarobo 44ポイント45ポイント  (13子コメント)

That's super interesting! Does that mean it would conceivably be legal to operate a soap box car while inebriated, so long as it was gravity itself that set the car in motion?

[–]senfo 78ポイント79ポイント  (8子コメント)

IANAL, but assuming the soap box car was at the top of a hill, I can imagine one could argue "picking ones feet off the ground" could, in some way, qualify as an "action that sets the vehicle in motion." As would, for example, putting the car in neutral and releasing the parking brake. It's not so much the gas pedal in question as much as who/what caused the vehicle to take motion.

[–]Tufflaw[🍰] 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Depends on the definition of "motor vehicle", in my state it excludes anything propelled by muscular power

[–]n33mers 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Happy cake day

[–]Tufflaw[🍰] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Didn't even notice - thanks!

[–]bsmac45 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

In Massachusetts it would, as you can only get an OUI in a motorized vehicle. Other jurisdictions may differ.

[–]BlatantConservative 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

if there is enough circumstantial evidence to prove to you beyond a reasonable doubt that the vehicle was operated and that the defendant, and no one else, was the operator of that vehicle

How likely is it that a good lawyer could get both OP and the driver friend off because there's a reasonable suspicion that the other one was driving?

[–]leetdood_shadowban 61ポイント62ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seeing as only one person can operate the gas, I'd argue that's very unlikely.

[–]duckshoe2 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Alaska has a stiff interpretation of "operating." There's a reported case (forget the name) in which two inebriates were fighting in the car. #1 was obviously culpable; #2 got charged because he had grabbed the wheel.

[–]TheHYPO 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you are correct, that's much nicer than here in Ontario (Canada). As I understand it, you can be charged with impaired driving simply for sitting in the drivers' seat of the car (even if it's not on) because the car is under your care and (potential) control.

I'm not suggesting this law applies in Mass, but if you're correct, OP has a much better shot there, because I suspect here, being drunk and in a seat that has the POSSIBILITY that you could steer or brake the car seems like a huge risk of charges.

Bottom line is that I fully agree that a lawyer is a pretty sure thing in this situation as I can't imagine that having an impaired on your record will help your life in any way... I would think it could end up costing you money or giving you other problems down the line.

[–]itoddicus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Interesting. In MA he may get away with this. In CA and most other states he would be totally boned. The definition of "operating" is very broad, and having a steering wheel and brake on the passenger's side would probably qualify as capable of operating the vehicle.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

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    [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor[M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

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    [–]oregon_guy 237ポイント238ポイント  (13子コメント)

    First, none of the things the officer did are even close to illegal, so don't waste your time worrying about it.

    Second, a DUI for a "passenger" who has a steering wheel and a brake is a pretty unique circumstance. I won't pretend to know if it has ever been litigated, let alone in your state. However, you certainly had the means to control the vehicle, so a prosecutor can argue that you did control it or that you could/should have. You absolutely need a criminal defense attorney.

    [–]TheAlmightyice 33ポイント34ポイント  (4子コメント)

    should have.

    How do you argue that a drunk person should drive a car?

    [–]Darth_Pyre 22ポイント23ポイント  (3子コメント)

    You could theoretically argue that the passenger had access and capabilities to stop the vehicle but did not do so, therefore they were operating it in an unlawful manner.

    [–]BubblingMonkey[🍰] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I think that is where the pedals being unusable come into play. If OPB can prove that he or she had no way to stop the vehicle, then I think he is fine.

    It can and maybe will be a tough fight depending on how they approach it and how well prepared the lawyers are.

    [–]smapple 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

    But he said the pedals are useable, how would he try to prove he couldn't use them? Other than being drunk.

    [–]ninjette847 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    There was no gas pedal but the brake pedal on his side worked.

    [–]LandGuppy 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

    My thoughts are this is why he got the summons in the mail. The officer wanted to talk to the prosecutor's office before making an arrest.

    [–]oui_random[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

    sry she said he was pulled over for swerving over the lines after she came back and asked me to get out of the car when I asked her again. if he did swerve and I sawe him am iu supposed to have pulled the wheel on my side back to the lane?? I don't know if that's a good point to make to the judge or not, I'm ont in charge of his driving

    [–]oregon_guy 130ポイント131ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Under no circumstances should you be making any points to the judge. It is the job of your attorney to determine what he/she should say to the judge and what you should say - if anything - to whom.

    [–]RochelleRochelleEsq 64ポイント65ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You don't just make points to the judge. Request a public defender, you need one.

    [–]gayrudeboys 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Not a lawyer but I've been before judges for some pretty serious shit.

    Do not say anything to the judge unless your lawyer or public defender has specifically told you to.

    Minus maybe a 'thank you' after everything is said and done, and even then I would tread lightly. Obviously if you're prompted to answer yes/no questions, do that.

    [–]dan_the_man8558 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    how could the prosecutor prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did control the vehicle

    [–]itoddicus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    In MA, he doesn't need to control the vehicle, but "Operate" it. An important distinction in this case. Also, established case law is pretty broad in how you can establish someone was "Operating" a vehicle, and judges/juries take a very dim view of drunk driving, so prosecutors have a relatively easy job doing so.

    [–]kf7zde -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't know about Massachusetts, but in eashingtonbits perfectly legal to receive a ticket thing in the mail and not receive even so much as a copy in person during the stop itself.

    That or I should get myself a lawyer...

    Source: got a double ticket in the mail and no copy in person.

    [–]ImJustaNJrefugee 37ポイント38ポイント  (1子コメント)

    IANAL, but I did spend years as a driving instructor:

    The extra wheel on the right in some drivers ed cars is a demonstration wheel, not a full control device. They are not built into the cars by the manufacturer, nor are they connected to the mechanics of the steering mechanism beyond the firewall of the car whether rack and pinion or recirculating ball . The ones I am familiar with are connected to the drivers side using a bicycle chain and a couple of cogs and typically installed by shops that also perform handicapped retrofits like hand operated brakes and accelerators.

    Any attempt to use them for full control is not recommended, and trying to exert control over the person using the actual wheel will likely break the chain or otherwise disable to connection, and likely cause a disaster.

    Also, the wheel is removable from that side in all of the DE cars I have seen that even have one. Most just have a brake pedal.

    [–]MegaTrain 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So are the wheel and brake always engaged/working? Or is there a switch you have to flip to get into "driver's ed mode" or something?

    If there was a switch in OP's friend's car (that was set to OFF), then that would definitely be relevant to his defense.

    [–]shhh_its_me 68ポイント69ポイント  (23子コメント)

    You need a lawyer , beg or borrow to get one.

    I actually have no idea what the law is for 2 people "driving" a drivers ed car and am interested to hear the opinions.

    [–]djsjjdQuality Contributor 43ポイント44ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Well this is an interesting twist. First of all, stop with wondering whether everything the cop did was legal, that's not going to get you anywhere. Of course the cop can refuse to answer your questions.

    DUI is a serious charge and you need a lawyer if you can get one. Maybe you qualify for a public defender based on your income. I don't want to get your hopes up, but I would think that a lawyer would be able to get these charges dismissed. The officer was probably just covering her bases in the event that your friend attempts to point the finger at you and say that you were operating the vehicle at the time of the arrest. You should be okay so long as your friend doesn't try to throw you under the bus.

    [–]BlatantConservative 132ポイント133ポイント  (22子コメント)

    The cop did nothing wrong. Im actually somewhat impressed she didnt burst out laughing seeing two drunk guys driving a driver's ed car with two steering wheels.

    The cop had every right to arrest and ticket there, and she had at least a reasonable suspicion that you were helping operate the motor vehicle (thats a weird thing to say) so the ticket is something you need to fight in court.

    You need a lawyer. Seeing as I (and everyone else in this comment thread) cant find a past Massasschutsess case that deals with two people driving the same car, you might be paving new case law here so at least you'll be an entertaining story for law school students.

    Tbis might be my favorite post on this sub actually OP. Its like the last episode of Psych.

    [–]TabbyCaterpillar 63ポイント64ポイント  (17子コメント)

    This might be my favorite post on this sub actually OP.

    My favorite part is how OP didn't even bother mentioning in the title that it was a driver's ed car and he DID HAVE ACCESS to a functioning steering wheel and brake pedal where he was sitting.

    Either that or the fact that OP appears to still be drunk and wanted to call "the woman" and see if she'll change her mind.

    [–]BlatantConservative 33ポイント34ポイント  (5子コメント)

    And all the "the cop did something illegal right" stuff.

    Im not one to usually dump on the OP this much but this is hilarious.

    [–]GoldenTileCaptER 22ポイント23ポイント  (4子コメント)

    OP was asking... which is what this sub is about, right? I think I'd be curious too if the cop was like "You'll get a ticket in the mail" without saying what it was for. I bet you would be too.

    [–]RochelleRochelleEsq 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Asking if all these things the cop did were illegal was pretty ridiculous.

    [–]jmurphy42 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Don't forget how he just casually dropped that he's on medication that doesn't mix well with alcohol.

    [–]GoldenTileCaptER 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Did I miss this point? Or are you confused?

    [–]jmurphy42 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He said it here.

    [–]RochelleRochelleEsq 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He said that in response to my asking if he was drunk right now

    [–]FallenAngelII -2ポイント-1ポイント  (6子コメント)

    OP claims the driver's side didn't have any gas, so he couldn't have operated the car. Is this actually a thing in driver's ed cars, separate gas tanks for each side?

    [–]j0hnnyengl1sh 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

    He means there's no gas pedal on the passenger side.

    [–]FallenAngelII -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Oh, sorry. I think my brain short-circuited half-way through the post and just stopped censoring weirdly misspelled words (petal!!!!) so I just read it as "gas". Also... how in the world are you supposed learn how to drive a car without a gas pedal?

    Also, then that's no much of a defense. "There's no gas pedal on my side... but I could've still driven it. But no gas pedal. So clearly, I am innocent!".

    [–]j0hnnyengl1sh 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    how in the world are you supposed learn how to drive a car without a gas pedal?

    There's a full set of controls including gas pedal on the driver's side. On the passenger side there are replicated safety controls i.e. the things that the instructor would need in order to avoid danger in the event of a pupil losing control - a steering wheel and a brake pedal.

    [–]FallenAngelII 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Ah, silly me. I forgot that those controls are for the instructor, not the student.

    Howver, breaking isn't always the best course of action when trying to come to a safe stop. If the student has lost control of the car and you'd be better off continuing driving to a better and safer spot to stop, you'd want to have a gas pedal.

    Like say the student accident drove into the wrong lane and there's a car coming at you and the student panics. A lack of a gas pedal would prevent the instructor of getting the car to the safety of the right lane and then you're both dead.

    [–]TheHYPO 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No it wouldn't. That's why they have a steering wheel.

    [–]bert33 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think he means no gas pedal - not an empty gas tank.

    [–]PaddleBoatEnthusiast 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Ok maybe I'm just cynical, but the story doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Driver gets taken out for field sobriety and then talks with the officer for a while (after being accused of swerving a bit). At this point, the officer then takes out passenger OP here who "didn't know the steering wheel and brake worked." Then, apparently the two drunk guys haven't talked since the incident? My guess is genius OP grabbed the wheel thinking it was inactive and caused the car to swerve and his buddy to get a DUI, buddy was pissed off and blamed OP after field sobriety failed, and now he's not talking to him.

    I'm not a lawyer or in law enforcement, I just love this subreddit. But fuck if this story doesn't sound fishy as hell.

    [–]BlatantConservative 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I think OP was significantly drunk when it happened and half remembers everything. Anything could have really happened.

    [–]PaddleBoatEnthusiast 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah you're probably right. Like I said, kind of feeling cynical about this one haha

    [–]16ouncesofsand 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

    IANAL... Can anybody predict what would have happened if OP refused the breathalyzer? Are there any laws in MA that require a person to submit to the test as a passenger?

    [–]LandGuppy 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I feel like he would have been arrested. It seems like the officer was not sure about the situation, and was willing to let him go and Mail a summons after discussing it with the prosecution. Being uncooperative just would have made her act on the arrest on scene.

    [–]mre5765 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Assuming this is for real ...

    If he was sober and didn't have a license, would he be arrested for driving without a license?

    This is bizarre.

    [–]Justagreewithme 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Like everyone has said-the officer acted completely within her powers and did nothing wrong. No, absolutely do not try to contact her under any circumstances. She does not have the power to drop the charges, nor would she even if she did. It is in the hands of the court now and you should definitely get a lawyer. To be blunt, you don't present yourself well and if you tried to represent yourself it likely wouldn't go well. You have a very good chance of being found not guilty if you hire a lawyer.

    [–]DkS_FIJI 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You need a lawyer. From some of your other comments, it looks like you want this to just go away. I'm sorry, but that's not going to happen. Your best course of action is to find a good lawyer who specializes in DUIs.

    Your situation is unusual, and a lawyer is going to be able to help you more than any of us.

    [–]CherenkovRadiator 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    OP you need a lawyer. If you can't afford one, seek legal aid, this is a good resource to start:

    http://www.masslegalservices.org/FindLegalAid

    [–]shundi 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Are you still drunk?

    [–]Birdman_HarveyQuality Contributor 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'm on mobile so I can't look up MA law, but in MN just taking the roadside breath test (PBT) isn't enough. You have to go down to the station for a more reliable test. Get a public defender and start from there.

    [–]LandGuppy -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    A lot of DUI officers around here have a full breath testing machine in their vehicle. They can do the test at the scene and it isn't a portable great test.

    [–][削除されました]  (5子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]RochelleRochelleEsq 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Well yeah, if you're in the car and can access your keys you can still get a DUI, that's true in most states. Not uncommon.

      [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]RochelleRochelleEsq -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

        That is exactly the reasoning behind it, and that you could have just been driving also. Its not a dick move, you shouldn't have access to a 3000lb piece of machinery when you're impaired, period.

        [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

        [removed]

          [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):

          Violation of Common Decency

          • Posts containing primarily negative comments, and lacking in advice, will be summarily removed without warning. Users who are consistent problems will be banned. Post to help, not to flame.

          If you feel this was in error, message the moderators.

          [–]danweber 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          gas pedal

          [–]Surftex363 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          This has nothing to do with your legal situation. (I do hope the best) A little life tip: with that amount in your savings currently, spending money at bars is not the most prudent thing to do.

          [–]SleepyConscience -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

          This is an unusual case due to the driver's ed aspect. You will probably win it, but it's the sort you need an attorney for unfortunately. I had a DUI back in 2006. I totally deserved it, so it was pretty straightforward and I still spent $3000 on attorney's fees. I was right out of college at the time and couldn't afford it either. The way I paid for it was getting a zero interest for 12 months credit card and putting it on that (make sure your attorney accepts credit cards). The attorney also allowed me to pay in $500 monthly installments which helped since I didn't have the credit limit for the whole $3000. I know this blows and isn't fair, but unfortunately it's how our system works. Even if you are found innocent you'll still be sick with the attorney's bill. Trust me, in your case it's worth it to get an attorney though. Attorneys are most useful in weird cases like this that require a lot of research and argument. I'd also look into whether you qualify for a public defender. Probably not since it's a relatively minor crime, but if Mass has particularly harsh DUI laws you might. The basic test is whether the crime you're charged with could result in incarceration. Usually you don't get jail time for a first offense DUI, but it all depends on Mass law. Also, contrary to popular belief, public defenders are not bad lawyers. Some of the best trial attorneys I know started as public defenders. They are overworked for sure, but with an unusual case like this I think yours would get more attention. I know I'd give it attention. Strange cases are the sort of thing that gets a lawyer noticed.

          [–]RochelleRochelleEsq 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Even if you are found innocent

          You can't be found innocent, only not guilty. Sorry, pet peeve.

          I'd also look into whether you qualify for a public defender. Probably not since it's a relatively minor crime,

          DUI is not that minor. In my state, any crime with the potential for jail/prison time (meaning by statute, not what usually happens) will get you a PD if you qualify, I assume that's how it is in most. You should be able to get a PD for DUI everywhere.

          [–]Sloots_and_Hoors 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          IANAL and genuinely curious... Were you dicking around with the steering wheel on your side? I would be dicking around with the steering wheel on my side. I know it would be irresponsible. I know it could get me in trouble, but for real... I'd probably do it.

          [–]NamelessCrusader -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Regardless of how this one turns out, learn your lesson: DON'T GET BEHIND A WHEEL IF YOU'VE BEEN DRINKING. Regardless of if you're operating the car or not, or if it's a driver's ed car or not.

          [–]firemyth -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          If you can control the vehicle at all it makes sense that you can be charged. Also, your writing needs to improve.

          [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

          [removed]

            [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):

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            • Posts containing primarily negative comments, and lacking in advice, will be summarily removed without warning. Users who are consistent problems will be banned. Post to help, not to flame.

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