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**MOD NEWS**Keep This In Mind (self.RedPillWives)

Camille11325[M] が 投稿

I decided to make an entirely new post instead of responding to various people in the Female Social Matrix comment section because this is something that everyone needs to read. (I didn’t anticipate being away all day yesterday so I will be commenting in that post later today.)

First some general thoughts:

  • If you are responding to a post, you need to have read the post in its entirety. Everyone who submits to this subreddit is taking time out of their life to share something and engage in a discussion with the community. If you don’t have enough time or energy to finish a post then save it for later and come back to it.

  • Asking for further information is fine but don’t expect other users to write up an annotated bibliography for you. Everyone here is an adult and you all should be capable of using google and finding resources on your own.

  • Rudeness and disrespect are not tolerated on this subreddit, especially towards endorsed contributors and moderators. This rule can be found on the sidebar and the wiki has more information if it somehow isn’t clear.

Now, the most important thing that everyone needs to understand:

AWALT! Including, and especially RPWs.

Women here love talking about all the ways that others are living life incorrectly, misinformed, stupid, mean, ugly, etc. and they embrace AWALT when it applies to feminists, sluts, fat people, and others. But we have had multiple threads on /r/RedPillWives where everyone in the comment section rejects a submission because it examines an uncomfortable truth that applies to them/hits too close to home.

Sure, people can be critical of themselves when they talk about ways to improve as a wife/girlfriend. Ultimately, those posts cast whoever is speaking in a positive light because while they are flawed, they know they are flawed, and they are doing something about it. Even if it is genuine it is still virtue signaling.

This subreddit is not an echo chamber and it is not a place where we can just pat ourselves on the back for being RP. There is a lot wrong in the west today, and we absolutely need to continue our discussions on the sexual market place and relationship dynamics. But we cannot limit this discussion to things that make us feel good.

There are 50000 other sites where you can read about meal planning, taking baths, date ideas, or shopping. Yes there is a place for all of that on RPW, but they are not the purpose of this subreddit.

Some things to keep in mind moving forward:

  • This is not a debate sub. Many of us also post in /r/purplepilldebate, it is a great space filled with men and women of all pill affiliations.

  • Evaluate your comments before you submit them. Be as objective as possible. Look out for potential sources of confusion, and make sure you are conversing in a tone appropriate for the interaction.

  • If you speak to someone with a challenging or harsh tone and they respond strongly, don’t put on an innocent victim act and ask why they are being mean to you. I’ve seen this happen enough times that I just had to say something, it’s annoying.

  • The content posted on this subreddit is meant for the subscribers on this subreddit. Don't feel any need to justify anything to hypothetical non RPWs who may be reading. And don't expect others to tailor their posts or comments so that they address anyone other than the target audience of this subreddit.

Okay that’s it from me! Post any questions or thoughts in the comment section below.

Hope you all are having a great weekend <3

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]conotocaurius 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Part of the problem is that reddit's upvote/downvote system rewards posters who say the things that people want to hear.

There are several posters who are frequently upvoted but don't really have a firm foundation of introspection. They've mastered the surface-level stuff about wearing dresses, but whenever a hard-hitting theory post goes up, they'll start to pick it apart under the guise of "thinking critically" or whatever. And because being wrong sweetly is better received than a hard truth, these posts usually find their way to the top.

Not that there's anything wrong with thinking critically, but it often closes the door on introspection.

[–]Camille11325[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Absolutely! You explained a very common occurrence perfectly, thank you for the addition to this post. Hopefully by calling attention to it, we as a community can manage it better.

[–]Sunhappy_DCSparking Water SipQueen 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks for this post /u/Camille11325 !!

Ain't nobody in here special!! AWALT means just that. If a post or comment triggers your unhappy feels and you feel defensive, take a moment before hitting "save" and ask yourself "What is it about this comment or post that makes me uncomfortable? What can I change in myself so that my first response isn't being offended?"

[–]Camille11325[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're welcome, and thank you for this insight I hope everyone reads it!

[–]blushinglillyMarried 5 ys, Early 30s 6ポイント7ポイント  (11子コメント)

I'm posting this not to be critical but for clarity because I'm still confused about what our position is here and I want to reach an understand, so I'd appreciate feedback.

I don't understand what was wrong with questioning the content of that particular post.

I read the entire post and I understood it. I was not upset or distressed by it and it didn't effect me emotionally, I just didn't agree with it in its entirety. I also felt that while it was written like an academic paper, the credentials of the author and where he was drawing these experiences from were unclear. One of the things I really appreciate about some elements of the manosphere is their reliance on solid data and avoidance of simple assertion, unlike many feminist based sources which tend to be based on 'feels'.

I didn't feel that by taking a critical look at the post that we were denying RPWives theory, or at least I wasn't. I just didn't feel it was the greatest representation of it that I've ever read.

I can't comment on the tone of other posters comments, because I didn't see any mean comments so they must have been deleted before I was able to look again. I didn't feel that I personally was picked on or that I got a hard time, even though some posters did disagree with me.

I don't feel that I rejected the post, I agreed with some elements but disagreed with others because it just didn't chime with my personal experience of groups of women. Of some of the groups I've been with, not all. It was as stark for me as someone telling me that people only every have blue eyes, when I've seen people with brown ones. I just couldn't accept it.

I'm also now confused about where we go from here and what is expected of us. I thought this sub was somewhat separated out from the wider RP community precisely because we didn't automatically accept everything they believe in.

Are we expected to not criticise a post by a RP man, because it's by a RP man?

[–]Camille11325[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

I've stated this topic in a few ways already in the comment section so apologies if I sound redundant but: this post is not only about the social matrix post, that was just the straw that broke the camel's back. It is also not specifically about your comments in that post, so don't take anything that I said personally, although of course the standards apply equally to everyone in the community.

I will actually be commenting to you and others in the social matrix post later today, with more in depth responses, I was just at a cookout/party all day yesterday so I wasn't able to have the conversations I thought I would when I posted it. For that reason I won't touch on the things you brought up that are specific to that post.

I'm also now confused about where we go from here and what is expected of us.

Please take a look at these resources to learn what our community is about and what is expected of the participants. This is actually required reading for everyone prior to submitting content.

I'm not sure what was confusing about my post. All submissions should adhere to the standards of this community, and I gave specific examples of what not to do and what to do instead. Read the full post before responding, use google and don't expect others to spoon feed information to you, don't be rude, have discussions not debates when it comes to RP core principles, don't be a hypocrite, and don't worry about outside readers just focus on RPW.

Is there anything that I can explain further? I tried to be very clear and direct but I want to make sure we are all on the same page.

Edit: I pressed "save" too early! To be clear: this is still an RP subreddit! And no the gender of the author has nothing to do with how we receive it. Obviously the credentials of the writer matter and if someone has a long history of developing RP thought, readers should take that into consideration. Please note that asking questions such as "Are we expected to not criticise a post by a RP man, because it's by a RP man?" is something often done by BPers and it will cause anyone you are posing the question to to bristle and doubt your motives. This question assumes the worst of the women here and perpetuates the stereotype that we are mindless man worshipers when that is not the case.

[–]blushinglillyMarried 5 ys, Early 30s 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

Thank you for replying.

What I'm struggling with is on the basis of the comments as they stand (and I didn't see the bit where it degenerated because that was deleted before I got back) I fail to see how they fall outside discussion. It didn't feel like a debate to me in the way that it's been outlined in the post 'Our position on debates vs discussion', I thought we were just discussing it.

When I said "Are we expected to not criticise a post by a RP man, because it's by a RP man?" I wasn't fishing for something. I was trying to check were this community stands on this. I think it's really important to respect people's spaces here on Reddit and was concerned that I'd misunderstood the nature of this sub. I don't personally believe that everything an RP man says is true is true by definition, but I respect the rights of others to hold that view and I did not want to intrude in a space that held that view. You've clarified that isn't the case, so that's resolved as far as I am concerned.

[–]_wingnut_ 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

Not "everything an RP man" in the manosphere says is "true", but some things are foundational RP thinking written by foundational RP writers. Ian Ironwood is one of those writers and thinkers.

Are you coming from a non redpill perspective?

[–]blushinglillyMarried 5 ys, Early 30s 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

No, I think there is a lot of wisdom in the redpill perspective and I've been applying that wisdom to my life and my observations of people around me. Being completely honest with you, I'm uncomfortable with PUA culture and their darker take on the redpill, so I don't take everything on board.

As I was saying to Camille11325 I was seeking clarification. I'm open minded and if people want to run a space where they accept everything any RP man says as law, that's fine by me, I just don't want to intrude there.

[–]_wingnut_[M] 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why do you keep saying that weird "everything a man says is law" statement?

[–]blushinglillyMarried 5 ys, Early 30s 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't keep saying it. You asked me to explain what my original point was in my reply to Camille11325, so I said it again because I was explaining my original statement.

As far as I was concerned Camille11325 explanation clarified the issue but because you asked me I replied to you.

[–]CoochQuarantine 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

if people want to run a space where they accept everything any RP man says as law, that's fine by me, I just don't want to intrude there.

That is certainly NOT the case here. Ian is someone who has been accepted for a long time now. We do not look to every single rp blogger for information on how we need to behave. Plus PUA cuture has nothing to do with us. From the wiki:

/r/RedPillWives subscribers seek to understand how and why men and women are different, so that we can approach our SO’s (or dating in general) with open eyes. We prioritise our men, and allow them to be themselves. We defer to their leadership and fully trust them to have the best interest of the relationship in mind.

This means that we are a complement to RP male theory. We seek to maximize our potential for long term relationships whereas they maximize their potential for sexual relationships. We want nothing to do with that and actually our strategies are at odds with one another. That doesn't mean that the foundation of the core RP theory doesn't apply to both genders. It just means that when you look at it, you have to apply different rules to get what is best for your gender. We would never put any PUA material on here because that doesn't benefit us. It just benefits the man.

[–]blushinglillyMarried 5 ys, Early 30s 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I see what you are saying.

I come from things from a more submissive marriage, most advice about marriage is crap and doesn't reflect the truth about relationships kind of position.

[–]TempestTcup[M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

if people want to run a space where they accept everything any RP man says as law, that's fine by me

Where have we taken "everything any RP man says as law"? You are exaggerating for effect and twisting us agreeing with one man, a respected RP contributor and a mainstay of the manosphere, into all RP men everywhere. I get it though, you didn't like what you read, so you are being petulant and resorting to childish non-arguments.

[–]blushinglillyMarried 5 ys, Early 30s 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sorry if it reads as petulant or childish, that wasn't my intention. I wasn't remotely upset and my posts were not written in a petulant frame of mind. It's very difficult in text based posts to get your tone across correctly.

As far as I'm concerned this is how events transpired.

Camille 11325 made this original post about the FSM post in which she said she and others in the community were unhappy about some of the comments on that post.

I was one of the most upvoted posters who was critical of the original submission. I read Camille11325 mod post here and as it asked us to think about what we'd posted, in the light of the this subs 'debate vs discussion' stance. So I went back and looked at my comments.

My own view was that my personal comments fitted in as discussion, but I asked for clarification of that because I felt the other comments I had seen (not counting deleted ones I never saw) on that thread where all acceptable too. So I was confused as to what the problem was.

From this point on, in my own view, there were two possible outcomes from this point forward and I need clarification.

Possible outcome 1) I had dramatically misunderstood the intention of this sub, this sub was a 'what an RP man says is law' sub which while this was a position that I could respect, it was not something I personally wanted to be part of. To be absolutely totally clear here, I am not suggesting that is the purpose of this sub or that anyone ever suggested otherwise to me.

Possible outcome 2) I had a reasonably clear understanding of this sub which is that while it broadly supports RP views, discussion is welcome.

Camille11325 clarified this perfectly. I accepted the clarification and considered the matter, as it related to me, closed.

Other posters then asked me about my query so I explained myself further.

Further to your point TempestTcup I do appreciate that Ian Ironwood is a respected RP writer. I've read his site fairly extensively and I do see that he has many valuable points.

In this case I happened to disagree with a part of what he had written.

I hope that's made things clearer.

[–]Camille11325[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, there were posts removed that were directly violating our standards, the posts that remained did not break any rules. Any issues that they may have will be addressed when I comment around, if they haven't been addressed already. If there are no issues, just a difference of opinion, then I'll just respond as usual, continuing the discussion.

As I said, this post isn't solely about the female social matrix comments. There have been a lot of other posts recently with poor comment sections, a few that we even had to remove because that was the best solution.

Glad I could resolve that concern for you.

[–]Eterfinifrete 5ポイント6ポイント  (19子コメント)

I'm confused -- I read the comments on the Female Social Matrix post and I guess I don't see the problem. Almost everyone agreed with the idea behind Ian's post. But his post is theory, and how else are we supposed to deal with theory other than by engaging with it? Examining it from various angles, poking it to see if it holds water, etc.

I am honestly confused. What kinds of responses what this post meant to provoke?

[–]Camille11325[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

This post is not solely about the female social matrix post, that was just the straw that broke the camel's back. If you take a look at that post however users are not just engaging with the text, they are speaking as if they have never heard of the field of anthropology or sociology while doing all of the things I brought up here.

In addition to the public issues, several users have confided privately in me that they don't feel that they can submit certain types of content because the community isn't receptive. I completely understand where they are coming from, I have had submissions get only 2 comments, and I've had my comments downvoted to zero or lower by others on this subreddit.

There has been a growing, and frustrating, trend where posts that aren't of a certain theme lead to a comment section filled with the type of behaviour I spoke about in my post, as well as team woman nonsense, or just non RP attitudes in general. Several posts have been removed because of how bad the comment section became, other times individual comments are removed if the user is not receptive to a discussion. You may not have noticed these things because a) we try to address it as quickly as possible and b) you don't approach this community from the perspective of a moderator.

We are committed to maintaining the quality and excitement that makes this sub so great. I am not sure how you could be confused about this post. It is a reminder to the community about the standards we have for communication, because it is clear that not everyone is on the same page.

[–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

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    [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

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      [–]PhantomDream09 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      This community is RP, we work from RP ideas and there are very specific things that are 'given' due to the fact that we derive roots from the manosphere. If this is not to your liking, then you are free to seek out other communities. As for your opinion when it comes to moderating this community, it is not only unwanted, but unwelcomed.

      [–]PhantomDream09 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The article was from a known and accepted manosphere blogger, this post is specifically due to recent trends where users want to dismiss things that are common RP concepts and talking points. There are comments that were removed and other discussions in prior threads that highlight a growing trend on the part of some users to 'water down' the foundation that this operates from

      [–][削除されました]  (5子コメント)

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        [–]Camille11325[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

        This post is not only about the social matrix post, it is about an issue we have been having since the start of this new sub, and it was definitely an issue on the old subreddit as well.

        As moderators we are tasked with maintaining the focus and quality of this subreddit, so when there are issues, we will address them. When the front page is filled with fluff, the comment sections barely RP, and users aren't motivated to submit in depth content, there is a problem.

        If you have an issue with the community, speak to the moderators. Don't leave rude comments, especially in a post specifically about rude comments.

        [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

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          [–]PhantomDream09[M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          You have already been warned once. For a user that has no activity within this community until this thread you seem eager to earn a ban or at the very least cause trouble. Enough.

          [–]_wingnut_ 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          where did you come from fully formed and obnoxious? you have no history on old RPW or here, only on SRD.

          [–]Camille11325[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          There were a few rude comments, some deleted, others were just single sentences or a tone in an otherwise neutral post. But like I said, this post isn't only about the one thread, there have been posts in the recent past with far ruder comments and my statements apply to them as well.

          I said this to another user in this comment section but looking at a subreddit as a moderator gives you a different perspective. You personally are not responsible for managing this community so you are not looking out for the same things as the moderation team.

          Re: "crabs in a bucket" that is not an apt metaphor for this situation. This post is encouraging women to hold themselves to a higher standard, it isn't tearing anyone down. This subreddit has a specific focus and all submissions need to be in line with it.

          [–]CoochQuarantine 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

          and how else are we supposed to deal with theory other than by engaging with it?

          I guess I take it like this is RPWi.. not PPD. We are not here to debate theory. We are here to discuss as it applies to us and our own situations. Refuting the theory because it isn't drowning in sources is debating it. You want to do that, that is fine but this is where we take articles and blogs that we believe to be relevant and fall inline with RPWi and post here to discuss THAT. Not to discredit it. The author of that blog is an esteemed writer in the manosphere because his observations and content are overwhelmingly relatable and identifiable within our own lives and are held as truth because of that.

          [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

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            [–]Camille11325[S,M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            This is an official warning to stop leaving comments that are rude and disrespectful. It is hardly a crabs in the bucket mentality to encourage users to submit quality posts and comments that are in line with the RP focus that we have with the subreddit. This post is about upholding standards and requesting that others think critically and speak intentionally.

            [–]CoochQuarantine 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I can agree with that. But from what I saw in the comments that isn't what happened.

            [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

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              [–]Camille11325[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

              The only way you could view the theory as "underdeveloped" and "self contained" is if you don't have any exposure to anthropology or sociology. I will be commenting on the post later (just getting started on my day now) so check back and hopefully my answers to people clarify some things for you.

              [–]whistling_dixie -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Extremely well put.

              [–]CoochQuarantine 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

              What is the RPWi way to take a bath? OH NO AM I MISSING SOMETHING?? LOL I joke.

              I just wanted to say thank you for posting this. I think one of the biggest issues I have is that I lurk over at the other anti-rpwi site and see how it can been viewed on the flip side. Not that I would bring those ideas or questions over here but they do give pause sometimes because you do have to view somethings with a sliver of scrutiny.

              There was a radio interview a few years back where the radio personality (who was trolling) started out with some innocuous statements but they got progressively more radical with every statement made. You found yourself thinking "yeah yeah yeah ummm ok wait wauuuutt??" Finally winding up to burning a race of people. Or something like that. Some arguments can lead to slippery slopes and for newer people trying not to fall into some really extreme ideas is prudent. They don't know that the authors who are posted on here are verified and trusted sources for RP theory. They are the founders of this stuff. We have been seeing a lot more fluff on here than RP theory so it is probably a disconnect between the content and the new user base.

              Do you think it would be feasible to get more RP theory here?

              [–]Camille11325[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

              I agree completely with everything you've said! I would love it if people posted more interesting articles and original content that focus on RP theories. I personally have multiple posts in the works, and I am grateful for the handful of contributors who consistently submit quality RP theory related content (including you of course!). It is hard to motivate people to produce or find these sorts of things on their own. We are going to have a contest for best submissions in a few days so hopefully that will get everyone excited about non fluff posts!

              If you, or anyone reading, has any other ideas of what we can do let me know here or in IRC and we can incorporate it in June's calendar.

              [–]gabilromariz 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

              I think maybe it would be possible to separate all off-topic submissions, maybe even as another sub, to keep this one on topic.

              It is hard to find a place on the internet where you can discuss beauty, homemaking, and all that without coming into some feminist-oriented advice like in some magazines or other forums. So it is easy material to make/discuss and people like it. A place where I can talk about hair without being suggested I shave the left side or something silly like that

              I completely agree with you and understand the importance of proper content, but maybe having a proper place for all the fluff could be helpful like /r/rpwivesofftopic or something

              [–]Camille11325[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

              There's nothing wrong with having beauty, homemaking, fitness, or recipe posts, they are fun! And they are part of what makes this place a community. The issue is when that content drowns out RP specific content, It also seems like a lot of our newer members don't understand what RP actually is, they are just here for the BS free advice and conversations on relationships and femininity.

              Having a monthly simple questions and monthly recipe and crafts megathread has been great. Perhaps a monthly beauty discussion post as well, so that people can have the conversations they want but it doesn't detract from the purpose of the overall subreddit?

              [–]whistling_dixie 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

              I would welcome more RP theory here - I mean, don't get me wrong, I love the homemaking and beauty threads too, but understanding AWALT is somewhat of an uncomfortable truth that I think a lot of us would prefer to just skate past. Understanding our flaws is an important step to improvement.

              [–]eliza_schuylerEarly 20s, engaged, 3yrs 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I second this- loving the RP theory that does come up, and would love some more!