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Citation Needed /r/allAtheism = Peace (imgur.com)

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[–]bragis 526ポイント527ポイント  (31子コメント)

Iceland is vastly less religious compared to France, Spain and Canada.

I think this map is shit, and the statement is untrue as well.

[–]AllanfromWales 48ポイント49ポイント  (1子コメント)

Absolutely. Azerbaijan, for instance, which is 98%+ Muslim, shows up on the 'least religious' map. Now, they're not particularly devout or radical there, but they are certainly not atheists.

[–]Tortysc [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They are also not really peaceful, considering there's been an ongoing territorial dispute since they became a country with almost daily shoot outs with their neighbour.

[–]nightpanda893 47ポイント48ポイント  (5子コメント)

This may be one of the shittiest posts I've seen on here in a while. Isn't this sub supposed to value reason and science as a means of gaining knowledge? We literally have a map on the front page that has no indication of value for the data presented, no definiton for the terms (how exactly are we defining/measuring religion and peace?), no key, and no source. Come on guys.

[–]DefenestrateMyStyle 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

New Zealand isn't marked red on the first map but is red on the second. The country is extremely secular

[–]Roto2esdios 39ポイント40ポイント  (8子コメント)

I agree with you.

I've seen some maps in the net/press and Iceland was mostly the lesser religious of all

[–]bragis 15ポイント16ポイント  (7子コメント)

Oh, I'm Icelandic. The net/press is correct in this instance. Religion is uncommon, especially with the younger generations.

[–]AtheistCranialLacerations 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

Spain least religious? That's a good joke

[–]Otherredsparks2025 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Here is the wiki list of Religions by country. Iceland is 95% Christian. Anyway I agree with you that the OP's statement is untrue. A lot more factors than just religion comes into the equation as to why a nation is peaceful, such as culture, education, health system, distrubution of wealth, abundance of food, abundance of natural resources, isolation, hostile/benign nieghbours. I suggest the OP should read Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.

[–]bragis [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Iceland is 95% Christian

That number doesn't give a real representation of the religious beliefs in Iceland.

That is the number of people who were "registered" as christians from birth, which was the norm for hundreds of years.

In 2015 242.000 people were registered in the national church, in 2005 there were 250.000 registered. In that time the population grew by 35.000.

My parent's don't believe in Jesus/the Bible/etc but they are still both registered as christians.

[–]Nihilistakanyan [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

They didn't even put Estonia in the least religous section. And I'm aware that Canada has a good reputation but I wouldn't call them peaceful at all. They've been involved in almost every war America had been in.

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    [–]RunDNA 552ポイント553ポイント  (117子コメント)

    Hmm... where's China on the map of least religious countries?

    In the poll cited on the map, WIN Gallup 2015, China is the least religious country:

    China is the least religious country with twice the amount of convinced atheists than any other nation (61%) followed by Hong Kong (34%), Japan (31%), Czech Republic (30%), and Spain (20%).

    China appear bright red in the Washington Post map accompanying an article on that study, but is mysteriously uncoloured on this map. I call shenanigans.

    Edit: sited/cited

    [–]DoglessDyslexic 232ポイント233ポイント  (65子コメント)

    It bears noting that China is the most atheistic, however not the least religious. Vast numbers of Chinese believe in ancestor worship, Buddhism, Confucianism, and Taoism. The fact that gods are out of favor doesn't mean that the Chinese are skeptical naturalists in the sense that most US atheists are.

    [–]ben7337 85ポイント86ポイント  (32子コメント)

    Japan is the same way though, very superstitious and religious, just not religious to the Abrahamic god, but they have tons of temples for various kami.

    [–]Atheistreviling 61ポイント62ポイント  (27子コメント)

    I don't think that's true. They have those things, but they treat them as traditions, not religion. I lived there for several years and only met a handful of people I would call religious.

    [–]SpasticFeedback 21ポイント22ポイント  (13子コメント)

    It's very strange. It's not religious, and yet, it's not quite not religious. It's ingrained into the culture as more than just superstition (to the Japanese, at least).

    I just returned from a funeral of a family member (I'm half-Japanese) and my very un-religious father in law sprinkled salt on us before we were allowed back in the house. That was to prevent malevolent spirits from following us back in.

    My decidedly atheist mother takes me to the local shrine to pray near my grandma's house whenever we're in Tokyo during New Years.

    It's fascinating, really.

    [–]VioletMaid 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Seems more like a different kind of tradition rather than any kind of actual religion. Just a very serious/vastly celebrated tradition.

    [–]SpasticFeedback 14ポイント15ポイント  (5子コメント)

    But with a belief in the supernatural. But if you ask them direct questions about the traditions, most people will say that maybe they don't really believe in the traditions literally, but well, actually, maybe they kinda sorta do. It's all very non-committal haha

    It's just so permanently ingrained into the culture that I think it's hard to distinguish what is just force of habit and what is actual belief in the supernatural. It goes well beyond the don't-break-mirrors or don't-open-umbrellas-indoors level of superstition.

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      [–]04231993 29ポイント30ポイント  (10子コメント)

      They have those things, but they treat them as traditions, not religion.

      That's exactly how it works in China.

      [–]creamyturtle 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

      what's the difference between a tradition and a religion? aren't you still getting on your knees

      [–]04231993 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Depends I guess. It's tradition to wear a suit and tie to work in some professions, it's tradition to wear a stupid dress at graduation, it's tradition to eat certain foods like cakes on birthdays, it's tradition to celebrate holidays that are traditionally Christian like Christmas or Easter. It's traditionally an Abrahamic religious thing to have calendars based on 7 day weeks. People also throw coins into ponds for good luck, is that bad? Did you know that the reason why people say "bless you" when somebody sneezes is because people used to think you could sneeze out your soul, and that by saying "bless you" it could be prevented? A lot of what we do today is based on traditions and has no basis in rationality.

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            [–]WileEWeeble 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

            They have tons of temples but very few practicing followers. The temples are historical from a bygone age. People come and perform the rituals but it mostly for cultural sake, not an actual belief in the religion's dogma.

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              [–]Secular HumanistArvinaDystopia 6ポイント7ポイント  (10子コメント)

              Good point. I was going to ask about China, too, but you raise a good point about non-theistic religions.

              I do wonder why China isn't on the "most peaceful" list, though. Sure, China has a sketchy human rights records, but it's not particularly warlike. Some posturing recently, but very little participation in actual wars (for now).

              [–]LufiorEUW 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

              this might sound like a bitchy comment, but it would be awesome if in that situation people would use more often the word "western" instead of "US". i get that a large portion of the userbase is american and that america is a very fitting example, but it also sounds like US should be considered the standard/the we, imagine reddit had originated in poland and even though polish would have become far lower that a majority of the userbase they would still always use poland in their examples and you would see that every day.

              not a dramatic or urgent matter, just something that slightly bothers over time.

              [–]DoglessDyslexic 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

              I used the term on purpose. Religion and atheism in Western European nations is significantly different from that in the USA. I also know that our demographic here is also primarily US folks, as the European atheists on average don't have as strong an anti-theistic streak as the US folks do (which is caused by the significantly higher religiousness in the USA compared to Western Europe).

              [–]LufiorEUW 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

              thanks for the reply. sorry i pointed the gun at the wrong guy.

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                [–]JenkinsHTTK 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I'll be real man, in the scenario you created, I wouldn't give a fuck. I can't speak for others of course

                [–]Atheistcomicholdinghands 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Then why is Vietnam labeled one of the least religious countries, when it too has a lot of it's "atheist" people following Vietnamese folk religion?

                [–]DoglessDyslexic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I didn't make the graph. I was just mentioning something about China.

                [–]AtheistEvilAnagram 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                It's a bit of a stretch to describe most US atheists as skeptical. In my experience, actually examining your own beliefs on multiple levels is quite rare, even among self-described free thinkers.

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                  [–]Mangalz 50ポイント51ポイント  (19子コメント)

                  Also, Japan's peacefulness is largely the result of getting wrecked.

                  [–]Secular Humanistnykzero 17ポイント18ポイント  (6子コメント)

                  By that standard, so is Germany's.

                  [–]Mangalz 15ポイント16ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  Pretty much everyone quit fucking around when nukes came into the equation. Only have to worry about people who want the apocalypse now.

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                    [–]NFN_NLN 76ポイント77ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Also explains why your mom is so nice to me.

                    [–]rjcarr 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

                    Yeah, take a look at their peaceful index before 1945. But this is also true of the european countries as well.

                    [–]moldyhole 12ポイント13ポイント  (6子コメント)

                    Its almost like correlation does not equal causation.

                    [–]Secular HumanistArvinaDystopia 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

                    Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'.

                    XKCD.

                    [–]Nihilistqspec02 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

                    Thanks for posting that. I need to write a bot that will go through threads and say that... because for some reason I get more annoyed by the dismissal of the relationship between correlation and causation (buy bye science) than I do with wrongfully correlated causation.

                    [–]Secular HumanistArvinaDystopia 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    It's because the phrase "correlation doesn't imply causation", whilst correct, is not very layman-friendly.

                    A better version would be "correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation".

                    [–]Agnostic Atheistnerdy_glasses 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    I always understood the phrase to mean that given two correlated observations, you can not tell which of both is causing the other, and in addition to this, it's also just as likely that you're observing two effects of the same, still unknown cause.

                    So, just from looking at correlation alone, you may suspect that there is a causal relationship somewhere, but you can't really say which causal relationship.

                    [–]Secular HumanistArvinaDystopia 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Yes, that's the jist; though I wouldn't say "just as likely" that you're observing effects of an unknown cause. Possible, but less likely than direct causation.

                    As for the direction, you can sometimes deduce it.

                    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                      [–]Tastingo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      What the US needs to really chill out with their invasions and interventions is a really good booming back to the stone age. /s

                      [–]wic0101 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I don't know what this graphic's definition of "peacefulness" is, but if they mean low crime rates, national cohesion, and general lack of overt societal tension, then Japan has been very, very peaceful for the past two centuries, excluding the years Japan went through civil war that resulted in national unification in the 19th century and the years it fell under military rule in the early 20th century.

                      It's not really the result of getting wrecked. It's always been rather "peaceful".

                      [–]AirFell85 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Not to mention North Korea, which is also anti-religion.

                      [–]wic0101 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      It's also a bit misleading to say East Asian countries are "non-religious" or "less religious" than other places.

                      They may not have a monotheistic or polytheistic religions that are highly organized, but ancestor worship and what one might call "society worship" have a very strong grip over the people. Family and social order are given primacy over most other things, to a totalitarian degree. They may not fall under the usual category of religion, but most East Asians aren't "non-religious" or "atheistic" in the sense that North Americans and Europeans are.

                      [–]-JustShy- 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      "They're atheists, but they aren't as good at is as we are, so they don't count." The responses to your post are awful.

                      [–]Matty96HD 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      And Ireland is historically a very religious country and this is only recently starting to change but still rings true.

                      And for some reason there coloured in on the map.

                      [–]AtheistFredAsta1re 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Ireland is also coloured as peaceful which made me chuckle slightly

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                        [–]haroldp 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

                        From the same poll, "In Israel, 65% of those asked said that they are either not religious or convinced atheists compared to just 30% who say that they are religious."

                        [–]Willy-FR 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        But the 30% are the ones that decide who gets elected (because extremists are more motivated) and the ones that are the most vocal.

                        [–]SkepticEmeraldIbis 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

                        The majority of the world's Jews are atheists.

                        [–]m0dsiw 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        twice the amount of convinced atheists

                        I read that as 'twice the amount of convicted atheists'.

                        [–]silentseba 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        And Uruguay.

                        [–]Aquilon97 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Canadian here. This is accurate. While there's a LOT of people who aren't atheist in Canada, I find it's very rare to find someone who's serious about religion. Most people here, even Muslims, Christians and Mormons, are fairly casual followers of their religion. Only religion I've seen in Canada that really takes their religion pretty seriously consistently is Judaism.

                        [–]KelaasmGFY 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Germany is listed as a most peaceful country...

                        [–]SatanistLe_9k_Redditor 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        Don't mind America who are constantly at war and highly religious too, yet they're marked on the map as being neither of those things.

                        [–]Willy-FR 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        That kind of puzzled me as well.
                        Hasn't the US been at waswar pretty much since WWII ? (probably longer than that)? And while religion is losing its grasp on the country, it has something like 15 to 20% of actual atheists and a very large vocal religious community (whereas the religious communities in most countries — the "western" ones at least — are usually fairly quiet).

                        [–]n36328001 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        Hm. Although China's society has deep religious traditions, decades of Communist rule have installed a widespread atheistic materialism that still surprises many visitors.

                        Then: With its high numbers of atheist citizens, China and Hong Kong appear to be outliers in Asia.

                        So it must be decades of communist rule that have installed a widespread atheistic materialism in Hongkong as well. Right? Or else it is a typical Chinese feature, with the American-dominated Taiwan being a christian exemption (just as South Korea).

                        As for the topic, one can note that Russia is also highly atheistic, but certainly not peaceful. Some would, of course, have China being aggressive as well, but that is part of the usual propaganda.

                        Then it is also a matter of how you define peaceful. Having Germany and Japan, the two worst war mongers in modern time, on that list is rather dubious.

                        [–]Secular HumanistArvinaDystopia 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        Go to the details for Russia of the link you provided:

                        Orthodox: 41%.
                        Muslim: 6.5%.
                        Unaffiliated christian: 4.1%.
                        Atheist: 13%.

                        Russia is a very christian nation, with the Orthodox church in bed with the leadership. It's not the USSR anymore.

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                          [–]a_real_rock_n_rolla 27ポイント28ポイント  (3子コメント)

                          well that's not right, New Zealand isn't particularly religious, at least definitely not more so than Australia but it's not coloured in the top map

                          [–]stealthdonkey007 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          I came on to say the same thing, why's NZ not getting it's non-religion credit?!

                          [–]RS-E 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          In fact we might very well be the first country in the world to be 50% or more atheist/agnostic by census. Down vote this horrid pictorial!

                          [–]catatonicChimp 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          ditto same thought... just checked the census data... 41.92% of New Zealanders stated no religion in the 2013 Census and that number is increasing steadily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_New_Zealand

                          compared to Australia, which only has 31.7% stating no religion (2011 census) it is also increasing but at a slower rate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Australia

                          This map is just shit, so many things wrong with it, and no sources to boot.

                          [–]DoglessDyslexic 651ポイント652ポイント  (29子コメント)

                          Not really. Atheists are just as prone to despotism and aggression as theists are, we just have one less justification for engaging in it. It's more likely that "happiness and affluence = peace, higher education level, and lack of religion". In other words, atheism is also a correlate to the actual cause of more peaceful societies.

                          [–]BigPoopBreakfast 84ポイント85ポイント  (2子コメント)

                          It is really the lack of dogmatism that is the key. There are many systems that demand unquestioning obedience which are entirely secular, and these have every bit as much potential for bad outcomes that religion has.

                          Because religion is dogmatic by nature, secularism is a necessary precondition for this state, but it is by no means sufficient. Atheism is then a sort of end product of this progress.

                          [–]SIR_FURT_WIGGLEPANTS 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          A good example of that is imperial Japan.

                          [–]JehuLove [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                          The myth is that Japanese people aren't religious. I thought so too, before having lived here for 7 years.

                          Japanese people are devoutly religious, and their religion is "being Japanese." This may sound like I'm trying to make a joke, but I'm not.

                          [–]CrisisOfConsonant 33ポイント34ポイント  (4子コメント)

                          I agree with you. This reeks of people patting themselves on the back.

                          War's aren't really waged for religion. Religion is just used as a justification for war. I can't think of a single instance where a nation was all "Well we really get along with this country, the people are and we've got a good trade system going with them. But they don't agree with our religion so I guess we have to wreck this friendship and wage war because god said so." There are however lots of examples of "We want what they have, or we just generally dislike them. God says we need to kill them, so we've got to go to war. The other stuff is just ancillary guys, really, just trust us."

                          [–]Ivan_Whackinov 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

                          This is true, but you still need to convince the unwashed masses to die in your war. For that, you need the "OMG, those heathens are raping our god fearing women!" factor.

                          Religion may not been the reason for war, but it definitely makes them easier to support and conduct.

                          That being said, I think the Israeli–Palestinian conflict comes close. Yes, it's mostly just a war over real estate, but the main reasons everyone thinks they are entitled to the land are religious.

                          [–]dustwetsuit 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Try to say that in any islamic country though

                          [–]DoglessDyslexic 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          The primary target of most violence from Islam is other Muslims. This mirrors in many ways how Christianity in it's heyday resulted primarily in Christian on Christian violence. It's land greed thinly cloaked in a veil of religion. That's why the people in ISIS don't behave in a particularly virtuous (even by Islamic standards) manner.

                          [–]JoshRBG 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          This is exactly what I wanted to say. Atheism is the result of the same causes of peace these being high living and educational standards.

                          [–]positive_electron42 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          We don't just have one less justification, we also don't have scriptures that are unable to be challenged telling us to put those who disagree with us to death. Religion is far from a passive party here. I'm not saying atheists are peaceful by definition - the only thing atheists have in common for sure is a lack of belief in God(s). But, I also won't stand for religious apologists absolving these ancient, barbaric, ignorant, hateful, and violent beliefs and the organizations who spread them.

                          [–]MagnusTheGreat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          The fewer wars your country engages in, the more likely the population is educated.

                          Partially because a war like country needs people for war when they are most fitted for learning and they spend money on war that could go to education.

                          And more peace usually equals more happiness, as the people aren't being killed. More peace and happiness also equals less religion, as it is a comforting thing to have in most cases. If you don't have hardships, you will have fewer reasons to be religious.

                          [–]Domriso 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Hm, I hadn't thought of it that way before. Though, I wonder if the higher education level isn't one of the causes, rather than effects.

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                            [–]Strong AtheistLambert2191 95ポイント96ポイント  (23子コメント)

                            Did Ireland lose its faith in the 3 years since I've been there? Because it is by no means an atheist country.

                            [–]Jazus_ur_lookin_well 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            It'll be quite interesting to see the results of a recent household census conducted here in Ireland. One of the questions that was asked was about each persons religious persuasion. Of course a lot of non practising catholics will choose the Catholic option but here's hoping the No Religion box was ticked a significant number of times!

                            [–]Strong AtheistLambert2191 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            I heard about that, a lot of my friends were sharing posts saying tick the no religion box if you dont believe, because you're right, "catholic" is like an ethnicity to the irish.

                            [–]Jazus_ur_lookin_well 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Well here's to having my fingers and toes crossed for a significant percentage of non religious people being counted in this census. Maybe then we can rescue the educational system from the Catholic Church.

                            [–]pride_inside_ 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            I've read that Ireland is losing it's religion faster than most other Western Countries. (Probably because we had more to lose?) The Marriage equality referendum last year was supposedly a factor. The Irish were overwhelmingly in favour of equality and were fed up with the church who were not and their scaremongering anti equality tactics. https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/irish-losing-their-religion-fastest-among-western-countries-global-survey

                            [–]Strong AtheistLambert2191 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            I guess the multitude of scandals involving priests, nuns, and the innocent didn't help either.

                            [–]pride_inside_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            True true! I just watched the Irish film Sing Street and it touched on how bad they were in the 80s, in a very light hearted way. It was a great movie!

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                              [–]yritatentebegretamto 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

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                              [–]big_hungry_joe 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

                              i was questioning that. 20 years ago it had some of the most bloodthirsty religious fighting in the world. now it's one of the least religious countries? eh.

                              [–]benem94 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

                              The fighting in NI was never strictly to do with religion. In fact, plenty of Ireland's most prominent nationalists were Protestant (Wolfe Tone, Parnell etc) The conflict was divided across religious because those who were more closely connect to Britain happened to be Protestant and vice versa.

                              [–]dustwetsuit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              That's exactly right. Religion isn't permanent. It just takes a bit of human logic and reasoning.

                              I'm just surprised it has lasted this long.

                              [–]Secular HumanistHappyLeprachaun 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              No sadly we haven't there is still a disproportionate amount of religious people openly using the law to push their faith.

                              [–]AustinB93 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Younger generations are more liberal and pro equality. The church is still stuck in the past, pressurising the older generations to vote against gay marriage etc. Although there are a lot less practicing Christians in Ireland, most would still on paper call themselves so. Whether people believe or not is pretty intrinsic to Irish culture.

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                                [–]Steel12 78ポイント79ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                I don't think this is at all accurate.

                                [–]The_Juggler17 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                While I do agree with the sentiment, this is exactly the kind of circlejerk this sub is criticized for.

                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                  [–]DataKeeper 61ポイント62ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  Goddammit guys this is why we're consistently on the front page of /r/im14andthisisdeep.

                                  [–]Panaka 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  I honestly thought I was on /r/CringeAnarchy or /r/iamverysmart. It doesn't seem like it's as bad as it used to be, but man this place is still awful.

                                  [–]Agnostic AtheistDrKpuffy 30ポイント31ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  This post is full of so much shit.

                                  [–]JD_2020 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                  I just want to point out how incredibly misleading this graphic is. There are only, as far as I can tell, FIVE correlative countries (which by the way, correlation != causation). A couple of them just happen to be HUGE geographic footprints, making it look damming. A lot of those European countries are actually NON-correlative by this graphic's own admission.

                                  Edit: Actually, this graphic shows more non-correlation than correlation of the premise. Get the fuck out of here.

                                  [–]pinioncorp 21ポイント22ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                  http://i.imgur.com/Ixd0TtI.gifv

                                  Doesn't seem to be that much correlation to be honest. From what I can see, Canada, Sweden, Ireland, Germany, Chechia, Japan and Australia are on both maps.

                                  [–]Secular HumanistQWieke 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Jup. I guess it seems more correlated because of how big Canada and Australia are on the map.

                                  [–]Secular HumanistArvinaDystopia 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Iceland not being on the "least religious" map is a mistake.

                                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                    [–]Anti-Theistmichaelb65 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                    Atheism is not believing in deities. Nothing more.

                                    [–]superheltenroy 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    To be frank, Norway is also among the least religious countries. We recently had a census where more people registered at not religious/no faith than people who registered as religious, and an additional group of agnostics/not sure. Here's one done among only members of the state church (most popular religion here), where the majority just don't identify as christian, while more than a third are atheists.

                                    [–]Atheistcanadevil 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                    I will say that here in Canada nobody really pushes their religion but if you look at the latest stats we are still like 75% religious.

                                    Which is still ridiculously high. Although I am pretty sure a high percentage just say they are religious for whatever reason because no one seems to give shit about it.

                                    It will probably drop even more once we finally drop the Catholic school board here in Ontario. I know a lot of atheist come out of it but i am sure it also helps create a lot of Christians.

                                    [–]duraiden 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    Not only that but public schools in some provinces still do the lords prayer during assembly.

                                    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                      [–]CaptainAsshat 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Or possibly, Peace = Atheism.

                                      Lack of adversity tends to cause dogma to atrophy, in my experience.

                                      [–]mixedmentality 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Ireland is among the least religious countries...? Surely that's not correct.

                                      [–]Statecensor 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I would not call China and the former Soviet Union peaceful nations.

                                      [–]callum3133 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      I am Atheist. I believe it is the way forward. HOWEVER, correlation does not necessarily equal causation. That is almost the #1 rule of science.

                                      [–]positive_electron42 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      The #1 rule of science club, is to talk about science club to kids because they are the future.

                                      [–]Death_Desire 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Correlation does not mean causation. smh

                                      [–]Lokko24 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Correlation doesn't imply causation.

                                      [–]Woah_Moses 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                      I call bullshit where's China on the top part.

                                      [–]AtheistxTachibana 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      chinese people are usually taoist buddhist or christian, as well as many other religions. I do see that apparently (according to google), 50% of the population is unaffiliated, they probably are not conventional atheists. (as in, "god doesn't exist" kind of people).

                                      [–]SatanistAwesomeAim 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Canada is mostly atheist? Source?

                                      [–]actual_factual_bear 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      What happened, Iceland and Portugal?

                                      Or conversely, Azerbaijan, Vietnam and South Korea?

                                      [–]EricTboneJackson 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Or peace = atheism. Or common societal factors underlie both the prevalence in a society of peace and atheism.

                                      You're confusion correlation with causation.

                                      [–]Xhkpw 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Meanwhile in North Korea.

                                      [–]BKSledge 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      They worship The Kim Family.

                                      [–]Secular HumanistElysian_Prince 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      As a lover of history and geography--i'd like to point out a very basic statistical inference here: correlation is not exactly causation.

                                      In regards to peace--you've got a few issues that are really at large here:

                                      Australia/New Zealand don't exactly have any natural enemies in their general area--so there's no real reason for cause of conflict.

                                      Japan/SK are protected by the United States' army/navy/air force, and due to several other factors throughout history, have not needed to be as violent as others in the general vicinity. (with the exception of protection against NK and naval disputes with China)

                                      Canada and Iceland are pretty much like Aussie/NZ, they have no natural enemies--since the US is on good accords with both countries, and Iceland being on relatively good terms with Europe (being a small part in NATO).

                                      Scandinavia has definitely not been very hostile in the last century/two centuries due to a sort-of militant isolationism, but political activism and reform. They've never really needed a military and never really needed to act so violently since modern states were formed (pre/post WWI).

                                      Portugal has a few enemies, yes, mostly disputes with Morocco, but then again, very minor, and they stand with a lot more to lose on a global scale if they try and start a conflict.

                                      Germany, Czechia (Czech Republic), Poland have had no real reason to go to war, as all disputes were settled post-Soviet collapse. The latter two may still have their economies growing, but regardless, there is no real reason for them to go to conflict. On a side note, i'd like to make a remark that Poland has joined many of the US's conflicts, so this map coloring them isn't entirely accurate in that regard.

                                      Ireland... Has had some sectarian violence in the past years (Mostly IRA and RIRA), it's minimal, but some of it derives from catholic/protestant, some of it is nationalistic, I wouldn't exactly put them on the list of most peaceful countries either unless you're speaking about foreign affairs.

                                      But that's just my take on it--it's something I see this subreddit likes to assume sometimes. We should be concerning ourselves with the facts here.

                                      [–]Jediguy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I don't believe this to be true for the fact that I believe Greenland is a peaceful nation. But maybe that's just me.

                                      [–]SunshineBlotters 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      It's almost as if doing things because you are a nice person is better than doing things because you fear eternal repercussions.

                                      [–]De-Facto Atheistjaredjeya 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      You highlighted Ireland and Northern Ireland.

                                      For decades there was sectarian conflict between the Catholics and the Protestants there. That satisfies neither peaceful nor atheistic.

                                      [–]ricky251294 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      NOTE: THE US IS NOT HIGHLIGHTED IN THIS MAP, THAT IS CANDADA

                                      [–]TeessideKnobHead 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      What a load of bullshit

                                      [–]MrSkarEd 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Australia is a country founded on Christian beliefs. To say we are a secular nation is a lie.

                                      [–]Secular Humanistno_downside 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      correlation does not equal causation.

                                      [–]Jamin2489 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Ireland...least religious and most peaceful. You absolutely sure about that?

                                      [–]NihilistZendium1 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I like how North Korea isn't marked as one of the least religious countries when religion is litterally state banned

                                      [–]TrumpMini 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      You mean a more developed a country is, the more peaceful it is? It doesn't have to do with atheism at all, it is just that a more developed country is, the more of the population are atheists.

                                      [–]Kolkom 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                      Correlation is not causation. But in this case I'm inclined to give it a pass.

                                      [–]ZeroVia 12ポイント13ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      Actually it probably has to do with education here. The more educated are less religious and happier, healthier and wealthier.

                                      [–]Kolkom 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                      In a lot of places religion actively blocks education though.

                                      [–]Saposhiente 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      It's a feedback loop.

                                      [–]positive_electron42 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      You mean like everywhere that it possibly can get away with it?

                                      [–]Kolkom 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Sexual Education, "Intelligent" Design, Suppression of women, you name it...

                                      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                        [–]dustwetsuit 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        You mean, places where religion doesn't have a foothold on education lives are better?

                                        DAMN, WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT

                                        [–]Agnostic AtheistTundru 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        I'm so happy to see Canada being one of the highlighted countries

                                        [–]Nastapoka 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Correlation is not causation. Fuck this dumb sub

                                        [–]curryboy7 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        China is a country this map likes to ignore. Very interesting...

                                        [–]NickFromNewGirl 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I'm an atheist, for lack of a better word, and this is a terrible shitpost. I'm embarrassed that this kind of shit represents us as a group.

                                        [–]TheAndredal 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Why the hell isn't Norway marked in red? Also US is like 70% christian and there's constant war from US...

                                        [–]EdgeM0 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Since when was Ireland one of the least religious and most peaceful countries? How was this map made?

                                        [–]drumanddrummer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        The Republic is and has been for a while

                                        [–]JustinStewart91 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        How is Ireland one of the least religious countries

                                        [–]hth6565 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        But... what about the religion of peace? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iZBdkwFlkMQ/VK2LwkoZzHI/AAAAAAAAjvE/42VxHw72MUg/s1600/HE%2BDREW%2BFIRST.jpg

                                        [–]aykontakt 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        I think it has to do with education. The more educated the less religious and less xenophobic.

                                        [–]Someone_asdf 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        How is Norway less peaceful than Sweden?

                                        [–]KrukigTomte 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        The Global Peace Index, which I assume this is based of, doesn't only measure internal peace, Norway is in NATO for example, or the data could be from 2011 (Oslo & Utøya attacks).

                                        But the map doesn't say Norway is less peaceful than Sweden. It says Sweden is less religious than Norway, and that both Sweden and Norway are peaceful countries.

                                        [–]cheese_is_available 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        French : atheist, yet grumpy.

                                        [–]Atheistsnegtul 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        but "Least religious" != atheist.

                                        [–]ArchDucky 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Country 1 : "FUCK YOU! My god is better than your god!"
                                        Country 2 : THE FUCK HE IS!"
                                        War

                                        [–]coolbivek 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Can someone create a slide that show the connection between most religious countries and most violence?

                                        [–]bumbuff 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I don't think Canada is NOT religious. It's just, not in your face.

                                        [–]uptoker1890 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Ireland definitely is not one of the least religious countries in the world. You have to be christened in order to get into most of our state run (free) and private (expensive) schools.

                                        We are neutral though so that probably helps.

                                        [–]schillstorm 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Define peace?

                                        [–]Contain94 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        There is no data with these diagrams, one can't just use a correlation like this one to state something as a fact... It's true though, on the opposit, that religion brought a fuckload of war in this world.

                                        [–]Ludwig_fr 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        As a french I feel fucked.

                                        [–]SkepticLazy_Narwhal 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Honestly, it's probably causal the other way around, if at all. That is, people in peaceful nations are more likely to have time enough to reason their way out of religion. That being said, I think your map is wrong too.

                                        [–]NetPotionNr9 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Let's see how long that lasts after importing highly religious islamic cancer into your pristine little idyllic society that is detached from reality and how the world works. Nothing like self-loathing types that didn't have to work or achieve what they were given, to just pollute the ... ironically ... garden of eden with the snake of pestilence called islam.

                                        [–]flyingburritoman 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Countries that contribute the least to the world

                                        [–]rockodss 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Canada represent! Weird how my grandma&grandpa(RIP) were SUPER religious. Then My mom sisters and brothers were all barely religious and now me my brother and sister and everyone we know mostly don't give a fudge about religion.

                                        In 10 years when all the elderly are gonna be RIP, there won't be much religious people left.

                                        [–]youngli0n 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                        As a Canadian, I think I should point out, it's not that a lot of Canadians are Atheists, it's that they aren't "religious." The average person here understands religion, and science, are 2 separate worlds, and keep then separated. We tend to shove each other's different cultures down each other's throats, more than the religion itself.

                                        [–]Jedicmasey1410 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                        Atheist isnt a proper noun and shouldnt be capitalized. Unless at the beginning of a sentence, like that one!

                                        I agree, as a michigander right by windsor.

                                        [–]kellisamberlee 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Is austria red on that map? Because Austria is still very religious, but a few years ago a lot of people left the church because of a lot of abuse cases in katholic dorms.

                                        But these people still are religious and go to church they just don't want to support it

                                        [–]Secular Humanistganner 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Peace, social stability, social cohesion, and general safety and security take away a lot of the appeal of religion.

                                        [–]123Macallister 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I'm an atheist but that conclusion is a real reach

                                        [–]asuliman 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Isn't the U.S. the largest spender on Military Hardware?

                                        [–]theoriginalbubs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Atheism is the religion of peace

                                        [–]brittabean988126 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Aussie Aussie Aussie!

                                        [–]Ar3s701 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        How is Japan least religious?

                                        [–]WazWaz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Greenland needs to stop developing bioweapons! Or close their ports.

                                        [–]SkepticX-FER 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        I find it extremely hard to believe that Spain would be one of the least religious countries in the world. There's literally a church around every corner

                                        [–]Ligetxcryptid12 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        In Denmark it's the same way, but it's population is about 65% atheist

                                        [–]predragonator 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Spain least religious? #sagradafamilia

                                        [–]CamQTR 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Eh.... hockey? Eh?

                                        [–]pirigo98 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Didn't I just read here that 0.0% of Icelandic people did not believe there is a god?

                                        [–]Kalibrering 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I like how the map doesn't put Iceland under "Least religious countries" since it is one of the least religious countries in the world.

                                        [–]SkepticButtonBreakingGamer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        (Sees Ireland on "least religious" and "most peaceful")

                                        Yessssssss!

                                        [–]Rymere 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I wouldn't call Ireland a non religious and peaceful country.
                                        People still get threatened by the paramilitaries on a weekly bases. People get shot for selling drugs, people get knee capped, even the police stations get bomb threats and whole roads have to close.

                                        [–]Makonar 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                        Except for Poland: religious and peaceful. Although, it's more religious because of tradition than actual religious conviction. That and the Polish pope helped to keep religion afloat.

                                        [–]Jedicmasey1410 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        Yeah, because women not having the right to do what they want with their own body is peaceful.

                                        Here is a prime example of it not being peaceful.

                                        Unless you consider catholicism forcing people to do shit they dont want to, peaceful.

                                        Its peaceful all those children are being raped.

                                        [–]IsThisSteve 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Never mind that whole 3rd Reich thing..

                                        [–]mad_nut91 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Yeah because they mooch off of the United States military.

                                        [–]Satanistiswearatkids 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Bullshit Australia is peaceful. Have you seen their kangaroos? They'll tear you to shreds.

                                        [–]ignorant_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Anyone else notice they left off an entire continent?

                                        [–]BYDEE 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I lived in Shanghai China for 12 years I never meet a religious Chinese person. However religion is being introduced there by US evangelism, especially in the poorer communities. China is the most safest country to explore, they are not aggressive people. Their country should have been on the map. Bush called them "Godless" was a privileged to live amongst so many "Godless" people.

                                        [–]txapela 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I just know that people from Spain are less and less catholic as time passes by. That's cool.

                                        [–]strl 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Only 5 countries appear in both lists (who both need sourcing), that's not quite as impressive as you make it seem. Especially given the whole correlation/causation thing, for all we know peace might make people less religious, in fact if you look at the histories of those countries they generally became peaceful before they became significantly nonreligious.

                                        [–]Atheistshiftt 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        How is the Annual Global Peace Index quantified?

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