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RB GroundImportant Poll regarding RB mode (forum.warthunder.com)

CEOAntonYudintsev が 投稿

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[–]RetiredReutertu3 40ポイント41ポイント  (24子コメント)

What a silly PR stunt.

Out of your own inability to implement sufficient anti-cheat mechanics you put the community at the crossroads of either DMCAing a Youtuber for talking about an actual problem of the game or change the gameplay entirely by re-activing the markers - complete neglecting that the same issues are present in SB as well.

Is this your honest idea of damage control? How about a 3rd option instead? Step up your game in the anti-cheat department. Working visibility checks would be good for a start.

[–]Self proclaimed tow-cable guyVoxination 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a old saying in turkish about "stick with shit at both ends"

No matter where you hold it from it will get on you somehow and having to choose between 2 equally bad choices.

[–]Saltzier 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

you put the community at the crossroads of either DMCAing a Youtuber for showcasing an actual problem of the game or change the gameplay entirely by re-activing the markers

This. You give either the option of broad stroke suppression or breaking the game mode.

[–]CEOAntonYudintsev[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (21子コメント)

In case if you haven't noticed we are pretty good in the anti-cheat.

Yes, there is a limit of what our license allows youtubers to do.

And showcasing a EULA violation (or advertising 3rd party software) is not allowed by our license. We don't want to encourage people to do it.

You can say it is "real problem" but it is same "problem" as, I don't know, showcasing pedophilic statements in a game chat as "real problem" (and our EULA is not allowing that either).

Most of major online publishers do not allow that, and they don't make any polls.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, we haven't DMCAed anyone. That's kind of question.

We either will fight with cheaters like we did before (including striking any such videos), or stop fighting and change game mode.

[–]RB GFAngel-0a 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

including striking any such videos

While I totally understand your opinion on harmfulness of such videos, I have to ask you if you and your team considered leaving things the way they are. As I understand, your main concern is a possibility of players leaving the game due to cheating problem. There was a thread about cheating problem in the game very recently on this sub and majority of opinions (mine included) was that cheaters are a marginal problem and they are hardly noticeable. No one really seems that concerned about cheaters actually. However, as you probably noticed, it seems you risk losing much more players just by introducing markers back to RB. I really don't think it's worth it, as far as number of players goes.

So maybe it would be wise not to touch this subject, just hunt for cheaters as you do, burn them on stakes publicly but leave youtubers alone. I think half of them publish their video rants out of conviction, that your silence means you don't care about the problem. Now they know you do. This alone will probably help reduce numbers of such videos in the future.

[–]CEOAntonYudintsev[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

There was a thread about cheating problem in the game very recently on this sub and majority of opinions (mine included) was that cheaters are a marginal problem and they are hardly noticeable. No one really seems that concerned about cheaters actually.

But it will change, if we won't fight with advertising :(.

[–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]CEOAntonYudintsev[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Ok. Let it be "promotion", if it matter.

    [–]LawDog03 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Sorry, I was angry yesterday. I just dont care what happens anymore. Just a game.

    [–]RetiredReutertu3 12ポイント13ポイント  (11子コメント)

    In case if you haven't noticed we are pretty good in the anti-cheat.

    Then why not keep it that way? You claim that the number of cheaters you have caught dwindled from a "couple of hundreds" to only somewhere around 20. Given these numbers are representative of the actual number of cheaters plaguing the game, then this is hardly an issue on a global scale.

    The other option is that these numbers don't even come close to the actual amount of cheaters, making either the suppression of videos showcasing cheats or completely modifying a certain gamemode a viable and necessary option.

    Yes, there is a limit of what our license allows youtubers to do. And showcasing a EULA violation (or advertising 3rd party software) is not allowed by our license. We don't want to encourage people to do it.

    I can't anything in War Thunder's EULA which prohibits users from speaking about cheats. And quite frankly "speaking" is all the certain Youtuber in question has been doing. This wasn't exactly a proper showcase of game modifications and/or cheats by any means.

    You can say it is "real problem" but it is same "problem" as, I don't know, showcasing pedophilic statements in a game chat as "real problem" (and our EULA is not allowing that either).

    That's not a gameplay related problem. Cheating is.

    Most of major online publishers do not allow that, and they don't make any polls.

    I honestly wonder how the CS:GO community would react if Valve made them decide between completely changing the game to make cheating less of a problem (i.e giving everybody a wallhack) or silencing every voice in social media that even dares to talk about cheating. This is kinda what you are doing right now.

    [–]CEOAntonYudintsev[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

    I can't anything in War Thunder's EULA

    Terms of Use (which is part of use) has it.

    In EULA there is prohibition to advertise other 3rd party software.

    You can say it is "real problem" but it is same "problem" as, I don't know, showcasing pedophilic statements in a game chat as "real problem" (and our EULA is not allowing that either).

    That's not a gameplay related problem. Cheating is.

    So youtubers should not be allowed to discuss unrelated to gameplay problems?! Doesn't sound right to me.

    What does sound right that people are not allowed to violate EULA/ToU.

    [–]DLLaxe 8ポイント9ポイント  (9子コメント)

    EULA doesn't give you the rights that you think it does. You can stop people from using your services ban them off gaijin network but you have zero justification to abuse youtube or other sites to kill Fair Use.

    Especially in European Union EULA has zero enforceability you can't abuse my constitutional rights with such agreements and courts would laugh at you if you ever went to one with EULA paper in hand.

    [–]CEOAntonYudintsev[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Well, it is not fair use to advertise someone else 3rd party commercial software.

    [–]All US/UK GF UnlockedTheProYodler 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Because Gaijin has sufficient contacts within the US I can weigh in on license agreements within the US ONLY. A EULA is simply a contract, that's it. It's nothing more than a contract. If either party violates the provisions of the contract expressed to them, then the party at harm is entitled to whatever remedy the contract EXPLICITLY provides. If it is deemed that sufficient damage has occurred, then the wronged party may be able to recover some nominal damages--compensatory damages if a monetary loss is incurred.

    However, your EULA does not apply to people that do not actually sign the contract. Legally, you cannot ban the distribution of third party software (or tangentially, its advertisement); by logical extension, Gaijin would in essence be creating a law. A power not reserved to Gaijin. As far as the law is concerned, third party software is not your property (though if profiteering is involved, among other things, copyright infringement may occur).

    [–]CEOAntonYudintsev[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    However, your EULA does not apply to people that do not actually sign the contract.

    Of course it doesn't.

    Legally, you cannot ban the distribution of third party software (or tangentially, its advertisement);

    Well, in this case we can. It is violating the law, our copyrights and EULA which has been accepted by software creators before making it.

    As far as the law is concerned, third party software is not your property (though if profiteering is involved, among other things, copyright infringement may occur).

    In this particular case creators of this software is violating both law and our EULA which he has accepted (otherwise he wouldn't be able to create the software).

    [–]All US/UK GF UnlockedTheProYodler 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Sorry, I'm tired and my legal skills diminish proportionally to what time it is.

    If a/an creator/author has accepted your terms and conditions, then yes you're entitled to damages explicitly stated. However, some jurisdictions within the US do not hold EULA's as legally binding agreements (I do believe both the 7th and 8th circuits set a precedent in their jurisdictions towards not considering shrink wrap agreements legally binding--do not quote me on this).

    A case could be made that by creating malicious content via third party measures is actually abuse/abduction of trade secrets--which in this setting would be the principal material or game source.

    I'm reluctant to say the manufacturing of third party software is illegal in and of itself )re; different jurisdictions will have different opinions. However, it is reasonable to assume that the only way to create third party software is to ascertain whatever it is being sourced from. Which would dictate that they either signed the EULA, or illegally procured the good or service through other means.

    I would concede that the strongest case(s) to be made against third party software is through breach of contract, illegally procuring source material, or copyright infringement (to which I say copyright infringement is the easiest to prove).

    In my very limited legal experience, I've noticed that many US jurisdictions give precedent to whoever holds the copyright (heirs in the copyright holder's favor).

    [–]mrpenguinx 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I've yet to see a case in canada (Or the US) where someone got into legal trouble due to a EULA agreement. In fact, I think most EULA's are against canadian law, but don't quote me on that. (I'm probably thinking of EU)

    I do know for a fact that youtube will not flat honor EULA specific takedowns. There auto-mated system will sure as hell take down any video its requested to, but a counter-claim tends to fix this issue. (Okay, not always, but thats mostly due to youtubes shitty system more then anything.)

    Basically, TB vs Day one Garry's incident and jim sterling vs digital homicide are the best examples I can give. In both cases, breach of EULA "contract" where the reasons they got there videos taken down.(Among various other claims) You can read up on how it all unfolded, theirs tons of great videos giving TL;DR if you just search them on youtube.

    [–]=TITAN= Tony_Spark (AIR)V|V|V|V|IV (ARMY)IV|IV|V|Vsrust21 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Have you ever watched television or been on the web? An advertisement is telling you about a specific product (legal or illegal) and promoting it. Raising awareness about a problem and hoping people acknowledge it and hope to fix it is not. It's like you're saying someone trying to raise awareness about cancer is advertising it and promoting it.

    [–]CEOAntonYudintsev[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I understand your point.

    But "Raising awareness of benefits of some software" to me is kinda advertising.

    And one of the most effective actually. I don't know any more effective way to advertise.

    Also, have you read "Thank you for smoking"?

    If say, tobacco manufacturers pay for promoting smoking in general (not specific product!), or fight with worries about lung cancer, or pay for making hero in moving smoke cigarettes(not specific product!) is it advertisement?

    I guess, according to you, it is not, but said tobacco companies will show that as advertisement budget in their accounting for reason.

    [–]=TITAN= Tony_Spark (AIR)V|V|V|V|IV (ARMY)IV|IV|V|Vsrust21 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    But "Raising awareness of benefits of some software" to me is kinda advertising.

    Is it really a benefit if you are banned by either IP or hardware from the game? I certainly and many others would not want that to happen if we do end up enjoying the game. And on the point of "Thank you for smoking" that doesn't really tie into the point other than bad publicity is publicity is publicity nonetheless, but almost everyone except for the few hackers look down on it as it defeats the whole purpose of playing a game, and there will always be the few that do, as with smoking, but the best option is to keep that number down as low as possible by either giving an overwatch system in War Thunder's case or with anti-smoking PSAs in the case of Tobacco

    [–]-GSqd- zdzalaosimerah 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Please don't change the gamemode. Markers wouldn't help avert cheating as its not about if you can see the enemy or not, it's more about pulling off bullshit shots through forests and the like. Would markers somehow level the playing field for a non-cheater? No.

    [–]DLLaxe 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Then i don't understand how did you ever think that it will be great idea to suggest Abuse of Take down mechanics in youtube to shit on Fair Use censoring people that you have zero right to do so.

    Dear god do you work for Kremlin? Internet is not Soviet Union... yes you can try to do this but it will not end good. you are destroying this game and community....

    [–]fatkidfallsdown 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    most of major online publishers do not allow that, and they don't make any polls.

    really that must be why DICE takes down videos of cheaters made by youtubers oh wait they dont.

    [–]CEOAntonYudintsev[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I wouldn't say DICE is even a publisher, you know. And not online. And it is premium game developers.

    Check Warface, Point Blank, CrossFire - as a better examples.