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RPG Codex criticism of Fallout 4 (rpgcodex.net)

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[–]Non_Causa_Pro_Causa 21ポイント22ポイント  (5子コメント)

The most relevant criticisms are the fact it's a bad "RPG" (in terms of providing player choice and impact on the world/plot) and the writing/narrative is generally poor (which ties into the first bit).

I think a lot of the other complaints (perks, special system, companions) just follow logically from the fact that they didn't design it well as an RPG and the writing was bad.

Though I think a large part of the reason Fallout 4 has received more flak in those departments than Fallout 3 ever did was the existence of New Vegas. NV improved on all the RPG/writing facets of "Fallout" that were lacking in FO3.

Fallout 4 sticks out more because it seems like they either regressed or didn't learn anything from the past. The reality is it's just Bethesda being Bethesda.

[–]Rs90 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

Bethesda being Bethesda is pretty much why I'm done with em. I've lost all hype about Elder Scrolls 6 since Skyrim came out. They're just shallow games.

Which sucks cause they're very pretty. I got very immersed into Skyrim but it fades away so quickly. They won't get another dime from me unless player reviews convince me otherwise.

[–]byttle 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

they just don't care about the base game anymore. It's all about DLC and hoping the modding community brings in those extra sales.

[–]Rs90 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah it just doesn't do anything for console players. Their writing is atrocious and the quests lack any semblance of depth or complexity.

Even Oblivion had great writing and depth to it. One of the best things was the Dark Brotherhood. You could break into a person's home in the Imperial City. Find a journalin the bedroom with a name in it and the Night Mothers ritual in the basement.

The name was your first target that allowed you to join the DB. That was just such a cool detail they put into the game that you'd never know about unless you happened to break into that persons house, look into his journal, and snoop around the basement. Skyrim had absolutely nothing like that.

Edit- to add to that, you could get a copy of the newspaper that detailed the watch cracking down on Night Mother Rituals. Naming a certain character who came up in other quests. Along with the fact that you had to murder someone to even be considered joining the DB. As opposed to Skyrim where it was just some kid doing the ritual in the middle of Winddhelm while other characters joked around about it.

[–]TsundereNyx 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Fallout 3/4 weren't made by the same people who did New Vegas. New Vegas was created by the original team who did the previous Fallouts using the Fallout 3 engine and assets.

[–]Non_Causa_Pro_Causa 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm aware that Obsidian were the devs behind NV. My point is that the gaming public got a taste of a better-written sort of open world game when NV came out.

Whether or not a player is aware that NV had a different developer, they can still come to Fallout 4 and feel like it's a step back in quality.

[–]seshfan 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is a really solid write-up, I agree with him on almost everything (my one gripe would be I think companions are done better than he gives them credit for).

I know there's a lot of fallout fan boys in here but there's certain things like the atrocious dialogue system and clunky UI that I don't know how people defend.

[–]camycamera 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

my one gripe would be I think companions are done better than he gives them credit for

I think I know what you mean in that their personalities are interesting and such, but as the article described, the way the affinity system works ruined their personality imo.

Like, with Piper, her voice, personality and animations when you first meet her are fantastic... But when you get her to follow you, instead of getting to know her more in a way that feels natural and as if you're actually friends, you pick locks, receive praise from her for being the greatest (from how you pick locks and kill things...) and receive backstory, and then repeat every 30 or so locks. You got to know her from a completely gamey mechanic, and it is such wasted potential, the same goes for all the other companions as they work more or less the same way. Some have personal quests, yes, but you get them through doing completely gamey actions, and that just ruins them imo.

In comparison, Fallout New Vegas handled companions far better. For example, you have Boone. You don't know a lot about him, because even when pressed for answers he won't budge about his past and how he felt. So, how do you get him to open up? No, not from picking locks, but by doing quests he has an interest in, most notably quests that have to do with the NCR vs the Legion. As a former NCR sniper, he hates the Legion, to the point where if you go near Legion territory, he'll warn you that he's not going to listen to you as he wants to kill them.

But there's a quest where you are told to mercy kill NCR soldiers who are on crosses at NCR territory as they are there to reduce morale. You have to snipe them from afar though, as the place is swarming with Legion. "Fuck mercy killing", Boone says. "We've gotta get those soldiers out of there". That is significantly harder to do, but it's possible, and if you do, Boone reflects on what just happened and opens up a bit on his past with this experience. He felt human there, during the conversation, it felt like we were having a genuine discussion between two traveling companions, talking about past troubles. There are a few other quests that Boone has a say in that gains him affinity with you, and after that he opens up and then triggers his personal quests.

A lot of the companions in FNV work in a similar manner, and they also comment on the direction you are heading in regards to the main quest, and you may have to kill some of those companions or have them leave you because of the direction you are heading.

Fo4 sorta had this... But barely. Yes of course, companions at least comment on your actions in quests and like or dislike you more or less as a result, but that stuff counts as much as lock picking, rather than the major focus like it should have been.

Not to mention, that you can't ask a variety of questions to them like you could in FNV, from asking Cass what she thinks with the NCR (and flirting with her if you have the lady killer perk... In which she brushes you off by saying that she "knows your type"), to directly asking Veronica, "ever been in love?" These little things just added so much details to the characters in that, not only what factions they support, but to the little things, from Arcade's "nervousness" around EDE (due to it being Enclave technology), to Veronica's tragic love story and her former mentor that has great ties to the excellent Dead Money DLC.

But anyway, yeah. Fo4's companions had great potential, but (as usual in Fo4) it misses the mark with its gamey affinity system, the bad and limiting dialogue system, and a lack of "proper" quests that are more than just "go to x and kill y" quests, that could have been used to flesh out companions through said proper quests instead of a gamey affinity system.

[–]aroomacanvas -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know there's a lot of fallout fan boys in here

Really? I feel like all I see is people who are obsessively critical of it. Most of the people on here who like the game (like myself) think it's a flawed but ultimately enjoyable game.

[–]Volraith [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I just started F04 on xbone...got 4 hours in and the framerate crashed. Tried loading old saves, starting a new file, etc...nothing worked, frame rate just continued to worsen.

Sucks because I don't have any other options for playing right now.

[–]ScarsUnseen 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not that I'm going to defend Fallout 4 or anything, but does RPG Codex still make a habit of settling on a standard for RPGs that's always at least 5 years out of date? They used to say that Morrowind wasn't an RPG. Hell, I remember people over there claiming that Baldur's Gate wasn't an RPG because it was in real time.

[–]NanoDOS 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hell, I remember people over there claiming that Baldur's Gate wasn't an RPG because it was in real time.

That's an exaggeration. But, you probably did see people who said that Baldur's Gate is a shit RPG because it's real-time.

[–]SunbroAnon -2ポイント-1ポイント  (20子コメント)

To me, however, this pitter-pattering husband-wife couple with their cute little baby seemed so fake and dull that I could hardly wait for their world to get wiped off my screen. Was I supposed to be shocked and distressed when my character finally got frozen and was transported to a slightly more interesting future?

I stopped after reading this. People will complain about literally everything. People have wanted to see pre-war life in Fallout for the longest time, and the game gave that to them. The game had a nice set up to the story and an enjoyable introduction.

It's a lose-lose situation. If you give them the setup, the critic complains it is boring, fake, dull, whatever. (I don't agree with that opinion either, for the record. That segment was awesome.) If you don't give them the setup, they would complain that the story is shallow and has less RPG-esque focus.

This guy sounds like he is whining about the game not having the flawless story he envisioned.

[–]shadowbanmebitch 24ポイント25ポイント  (6子コメント)

If you don't give them the setup, they would complain that the story is shallow and has less RPG-esque focus.

I mean...he complains about that too later on since it is. It's essentially a comprehensive critique about everything the writer saw that is wrong in the game.

But I think regarding the intro sequence the flaw he mainly points out is that the tone(idealized version of 50s suburbia) doesn't match what they preach.(crippling resource shortages with impending annihilation)

[–]SunbroAnon -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

Our national debt level is off the charts at the moment, and we are almost completely dependent on imports to create the goods we need for everyday life. Suburbs look fine to me here, why would everyone be in serious poverty there? Also, it's a game. Who wants to see rusty hot rods when we can see awesome candy colored hot rods for the brief ten minutes of introduction we get?

[–]shadowbanmebitch 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fallout fans I guess. I didn't mind the intro sequence too much it's just that the find the baby quest created a huge dissonance later on.

Also (I assume you talk about USA) I don't think being dependent on imports and having debt(it's very relative depending on factors such as GDP, USA benefits from it's debt) is the same as facing resource shortages and nuclear war on the horizon. I guess some Fallout fans had a different idea of pre-war USA in Fallout universe.

[–]LordSepulchrave 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Our national debt level is off the charts at the moment, and we are almost completely dependent on imports to create the goods we need for everyday life. Suburbs look fine to me here

That depends entirely where you live. There are entire sections of the US today that are practically third-world with their poverty.

[–]SunbroAnon 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And I'm sure the same could be said for Fallout America.

[–]seshfan 24ポイント25ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's possible to do an intro scene and not have it be written terribly.

The husband / wife dialogue was so cringe-y I almost had to mute it.

He's not "complaining because it's not perfect", he's complaining because it's dumb as hell. But Bethesda hasn't really had component writers in a while.

[–]AmericanCaesara [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The husband / wife dialogue was so cringe-y I almost had to mute it.

Everyone will find something they identify differently with (or not) but I really enjoyed the family thing. I'm still pretty new at this dad business and so it was hard for me to not project myself into the shoes of the character. My one-year old also has a bear that she throws around and a model that makes a tinkling tune. I'm not usually a very feely guy but the baby's room does indeed have a sense of near-sacredness to it that represents some really tender memories and feelings for me. So, after the opening where you travel back to post-apocalyptic Sanctuary Hills and walk into that room, I definitely got the feels seeing Sean's crib and seeing how the room has been eviscerated from the war. It's like someone has invaded my life and stolen the happiness out of it. I couldn't bring myself to scrap anything in the house...except for the hanging apparatuses in the bathroom... I needed those screws.

[–]SunbroAnon -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

See I don't subscribe to the circlejerk that Fallout 4 sucks, and I didn't even notice how "bad" the dialogue was that people are saying was bad. I didn't even hear that complaint until this thread. To me it sounded fine.

[–]seshfan 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

I thought it was noticeably worse than New Vegas. Just my opinion though. i thought the writing in Skyrim was pretty awful, too.

[–]SunbroAnon -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's different for everyone. I'd rather play Fallout 4 because that actual gameplay is better. The shooting in Fallout NV was ass.

[–]BobTheJoeBob 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

I stopped after reading this. People will complain about literally everything. People have wanted to see pre-war life in Fallout for the longest time, and the game gave that to them. The game had a nice set up to the story and an enjoyable introduction.

How do you know he was one of those people? And even if he was, he still wants it to be executed well, which it was not.

[–]gar_funkel 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why even make a reply if all you're going to say is "I'm too lazy to read, lol, review is shit"?

[–]SunbroAnon -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guess you didn't read what I wrote. I gave my reason why I thought the article wasn't worth it to read.

[–]sp0ck06 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its RPGCodex, the take whining grognarding to a new stratosphere

[–]therevengeofsh 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

The title of this article is... terrible. Only one of those 13 things listed is a fact, and it's number 7. The "(number) (adjective) facts about..." is almost always obnoxious, especially when none of the things listed are facts and it does the writer a disservice. It's too bad, someone clearly put a lot of time into that.

[–]Mel_VanToon 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's making fun of click bait headlines, it's a gag, see?

[–]thexsa 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Only reason you don't seem to understand the title is because you are obviously not a frequent flyer at the codex. It's simply poking at all shit-sites who use those titles seriously, like IGN, GameSpot and PCGamer.

[–]thexsa 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Possibly the most fair review of that turd-game out there. It's just another game that blindly follows Bethesdas formula of how not to make an open world game. I had hoped they would've at least taken some pointers from F:NV on how their engine is best utilized.