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David Koch Pledges Millions To Gary Johnson’s Presidential Bid (dailycaller.com)

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[–]paxitasvoluntaryist 176ポイント177ポイント  (8子コメント)

For perspective, Gary John's campaign raised $2 million in 2012.

[–]RPDBF 50ポイント51ポイント  (5子コメント)

shit ima need a itshappening.gif version of Gary soon. With his sometimes awkward movements im sure we can find some candidates.

[–]stormsbrewingthe state is a religion 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

He still owes people money from that campaign as well.

[–]paxitasvoluntaryist 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

It actually managed to make a net loss on FEC funding

[–]pack1502Austin Petersen sucks 143ポイント144ポイント  (60子コメント)

Worried that people will now think Gary is just a Koch puppet but the fundraising 😍

[–]Athoxancap 49ポイント50ポイント  (34子コメント)

I'm worried that people suddenly start being critical of where the funding comes from. They haven't before, why start now?

[–]reubadoobEvery decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. 64ポイント65ポイント  (23子コメント)

If funding = change of message then I will be concerned.

If funding = more Koch brother conspiracy criticism from the Left than let them hate as long as they fear.

[–]nottomf 32ポイント33ポイント  (12子コメント)

Koch funding will likely be a show stopper for many on the left, if your goal is to win the election you need Democrat votes. If your goal is to just put up a strong 3rd party showing, then any money is good money

[–]voldin91 18ポイント19ポイント  (11子コメント)

True, and I think the libertarian party can pick up as many disenfranchised democrats as republicans

[–]mgraunk 9ポイント10ポイント  (8子コメント)

It seems like many disenfranchised Dems are Bernie supporters though, and what Bernie supporter is going to jump on a Koch-funded bandwagon?

[–]voldin91 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think the Koch donation will hurt our cause for picking up Bernie supporters. But we do need the funding

[–]mgraunk 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Something tells me that the Bernie crowd will end up heavily divided in the general anyway. They don't seem to be a cohesive group the way, say, Trump supporters generally are. There seem to be a variety of conflicting reasons people support Bernie.

[–]polyethylene2 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

So. Green Party or Hillary and a few Libertarians

[–]0b3r0n 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

A few have told me they're voting Trump. I'm not sure I fully understand, but apparently they're similar on enough issues for some high energy voters.

[–]Jtk317 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The same could be said for any candidate, including Trump. The division will occur over whether or not a voter is willing to vote Hillary or not if she is the Dem nominee. Personally I'll be writing in for Bernie and I think all of his supporters should do the same.

[–]WeHateSandrepublican party 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, the fact he's trying to institute term limits would probably appeal.

[–]Okilurknomore 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This one, Right here. Voted Bernie in primary, Gary in November, let's drink all of Koch's money till the election

[–]charliedarwinsfatherLiberal here to learn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a Bernie supporter who may end up voting for Johnson. Context is important. The kochs wouldn't donate to Johnson if the GOP didn't have an ass clown candidate.

there's enough high level over lap between sanders and the libertarian platform (thematically speaking), that I could be alright with that.

I voted stein in 2012. If it's trump v Clinton I'm leaning stein again but may consider libertarian too. Plenty of time to decide.

[–]vkob -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

No informed dem would ever vote for a candidate that's backed by koch industries

[–]voldin91 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The big Koch donation will be a deterrence, yes. But there are a lot of #NeverHillary democrats who care about the issues that Bernie and Johnson align on.

[–]FiscalCliffHuxtableLibertarian Left 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

It jives well with the Soros conspiracy criticism from the right. Regardless, I agree that a change of message after receiving outside funding would indicate there might be something to that conspiracy theory.

[–]e12012012 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Soros uses his money to keep the left from taking a closer look at his activities. Whatever opinion you may have of the Kochs, it seems to me they are libertarians and believe in something. Still don't forgive their shadier side but hey, money is money, and the idea of a third party on that debate stage is amazing.

[–]FiscalCliffHuxtableLibertarian Left 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I have the same opinion of Soros that I have about the Kochs. Liberals believe Soros genuinely supports progressive causes they care about while the Kochs are dirty conspirators. Yeah, I've heard the same double speak from both sides before, where they complain that the billionaire on the other team is going to destroy the world while they lick the boots of billionaire on their own team and give him an A+. So far as I see it, big capital influence shifting the message of the candidate they're purchasing with campaign donations should raise your eyebrows regardless of which side you're on.

[–]LibertarianTeeancap 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wouldn't the fact that the Kochs are throwing their weight behind someone who shares their libertarian ideals despite the fact that he has little to no chance of winning the election or gaining any power lend them a little more credence as opposed to Soros who typically only backs a winning horse in the hopes of having influence once that person gets into power. Now don't get me wrong I think anyone attempting to effect change through the political process is playing a losing game, but I do have more respect for someone whos money follows principle rather than just goes to whoever has the best chance of winning.

[–]FiscalCliffHuxtableLibertarian Left 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Kochs have been throwing their money at statist Republicans since the 80s because that's the only winning horse in the two party race. Betting on the winner is hardly something unique to Soros. It's about investing and getting the best return, and the Kochs are literally no different than Soros in this regard. If it was about libertarian ideals they would have continued to throw money at actual libertarians trying to build the party, but after David Koch's third party run failure against Reagan on the Ed Clark ticket in 1980 they have hitched their wagons to the Republicans. Only when the Republican nominee this time around is such a worthless wanker did they suggest returning to their... deeply held principles.

Remember, the Kochs are investors looking for good returns by buying politicians willing to vote in favor of legislation their think tanks write, just like Soros does.

[–]SodomEyes 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe the word you are trying to use is "jibe". The person who portrayed Cliff Huxtable, however, may speak"jive".

[–]PromptCritical725Loading Magazines 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

let them hate as long as they fear.

Oderint dum metuant.

[–]reubadoobEvery decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

TIL!

[–]jidfintraining 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If funding = change of message then I will be concerned.

Koch is a libertarian. I doubt he'd want Johnson to change his message.

[–]tacos_and_skulls -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

nobody on the left is going to fear gary johnson with or without kock brother money

[–]Zifnab25Filthy Statist 15ポイント16ポイント  (5子コメント)

They haven't before, why start now?

Run that by the Bernie campaign. I seem to remember somebody complaining about where Hillary was getting all her fund raising money from (coughGoldman Sachscough).

I also seem to recall Trump bragging about "self-funding" and Jeb! taking heat for all the money he was racking in before the primary started.

[–]7Redacted 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's kinda the point though: if voters in the Democratic Party cared about it they'd be voting for Bernie instead of Clinton. They aren't. Clinton is going to be the nominee.

On the Republican side it's important to stress that Trump didn't self fund his campaign (he chipped in a small amount but mostly gave himself a loan that he's able to pay back with the donations he has been asking for) and he's already started taking big money from all those people he claimed to be above -- 100 million was pledged by Sheldon Adelson just the other day.

[–]Zifnab25Filthy Statist 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

if voters in the Democratic Party cared about it they'd be voting for Bernie instead of Clinton.

Quite a few did. But Clinton has a sizeable base among the olds (who, you're right, mostly don't care about politics as usual and are more concerned with the state of entitlements) and minority groups (who tend to consider civil rights a more pressing concern than questionably-effective anti-corruption efforts).

Bernie still commanded a sizable following, as did Trump. So this notion that nobody actually caries seems to ring false.

he's already started taking big money from all those people he claimed to be above -- 100 million was pledged by Sheldon Adelson just the other day.

Hey, I never accused Trump of consistency. I'm just pointing out that voters responded receptively to Trump's initial self-funding claim and negatively to Jeb!'s corporate cash.

[–]7Redacted 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Quite a few did. But Clinton has a sizeable base among the olds (who, you're right, mostly don't care about politics as usual and are more concerned with the state of entitlements) and minority groups (who tend to consider civil rights a more pressing concern than questionably-effective anti-corruption efforts).

So now, not only are you assuming that all voters voting for Sanders and Trump care about this issue -- but that all voters not voting for Sanders and Trump care about this issue, they just didn't care about it enough to vote for Sanders or Trump.

Seems like you're making some pretty generous assumptions to arrive at your conclusions.

I'm just pointing out that voters responded receptively to Trump's initial self-funding claim

And here you're asserting that these voters care a lot about this issue (so much so that libertarians should never accept these kinds of donations), but weren't willing to do an iota of research on it? Gary Johnson might as well claim he's self-funding his campaign then, if that's all it takes for these voters to be satisfied.

and negatively to Jeb!'s corporate cash.

Well then they're guaranteed to be reacting negatively to Trump and Clinton's corporate cash. They both will have lots of it. Now that this appears to simply be a rumor, I assume, however, that you'll be changing your position on this -- and lecturing us libertarians on how important it is to get corporate cash.

[–]issue9mm 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

if voters in the Democratic Party cared about it they'd be voting for Bernie instead of Clinton. They aren't. Clinton is going to be the nominee

You're painting with too broad a brush, I think. The voters that are happy to vote for Hillary already aren't looking for a third party option. The Bernie voters that are unhappy with Hillary for her fund-raising are less likely to be swayed into third party support (except for the purpose of protest) if that third party has raised funds in a way similar to Hillary.

[–]voldin91 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bingo. The ones who voted for Hillary in the primary aren't the ones we're trying to recruit

[–]JustZisGuyCthulhu 2016, why vote for the lesser evil? 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

A single donor that provides a majority of funding has potentially more "sway" over a candidate than in a situation where the majority comes from a number of small donors.

[–]zinnenatoranarchostatist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ay m8 apparently you haven't been paying attention this election cycle but Trump and Sanders both have a voter base primarily concerned with where the money comes from.

It's because nobody else but shills will take Koch money that he turns to Johnson

[–]chowder007 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

With his response of no knowledge of it my first thought is the Republicans are putting this out to weaken his support.

[–]22BroheimianGrove22Libertarians for Trump -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because you have to wonder what Koch's motivation is and who he really wants to see as president (Hitlery Clinton).

[–]kajkajeteJohnson / Classical liberal 21ポイント22ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes in the same way they are worried Trump is an Aldenson Puppet.

The Koch's have been are and will be libertarians.

They got tired of the GOP and you can see that. Ed Koch was a LP VP nominee.

[–]kaydarylTolstoyan 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

I wonder if they've only begrudgingly supported GOP candidates since the 70s because it was a lesser of two evils and now they've realized that their personal opinions actually have a chance to be heard. Later in life people stop marginalizing and compromising.

[–]rowawaytrey 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

It may also be that they found McCain or Romney to be a "good enough" lesser of two evils but they are so diametrically opposed to Trump that they've given up on this presidential election and have decided that they'd rather spread a Libertarian message than contribute to either of the two statists running for president.

[–]kaydarylTolstoyan 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The original story has a dubious source at best, but it's an easy line to draw in 2016.

[–]ARedHouseOverYonderSalma Hayekian 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

hell they just funded a strongly democrat event which seemed wildly out of character. They are moving to a new regime now that trump has destroyed the GOP

[–]vox_libertatis 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

And those people would be kinda dumb, since David Koch was the Libertarian VP on the 1980 ticket. The guy's been libertarian for three decades.

[–]TheLakeShow805 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

I am not a fan of any inside big money contributors to any political campaign it scares me.. why are the koch brothers supporting Libertarians?

[–]0b3r0n 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it to you or not, but they are libertarians.

[–]AtlantanKnight7 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

They are libertarians. One of the brothers, David Koch, was the VP candidate for the Libertarian Party in 1980.

[–]PromptCritical725Loading Magazines 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because they ARE libertarian.

[–]Bossman1086minarchist 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

why are the koch brothers supporting Libertarians?

Because they are libertarians.

[–]xveganroxLibertarian socialist 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

why are the koch brothers supporting Libertarians?

Because they are libertarians.

[–]Poop-n-Puke 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

why are the koch brothers supporting Libertarians?

Because they are libertarian

[–]scarthearmada 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

An argument against Gary Johnson based on support from the Koch brothers isn't going to hold as much weight as people think. Calling foul due to support from "the Koch brothers" was just a weak response to the Right's criticisms of the Left's love affairs with George Soros. The latter being insidious, the former being rather benign.

[–]druidjcminarchist 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

It doesn't have to hold that much weight for the general population to hurt. I think Johnson's numbers are being buoyed by disaffected BernieBots and they are exactly the sorts that will be turned off by Koch support.

[–]voldin91 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Exactly. I think people here are underestimating how many Bernie supporters are refusing to vote for Trump or Clinton that we have a chance to recruit

[–]WeHateSandrepublican party 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Same with a number of /r/Kasichforpresident supporters.

[–]voldin91 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sure, or any Republicans who were appalled that it came down to Trump vs. Cruz in the end. Even some of the Cruz supporters might go for Johnson over trump.

This primary election was very divisive on both sides

[–]sirel 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a social conservative and a Cruz supporter and holding out hope that Petersen gets the nod...

However, if it is Johnson, I'm giving money and putting up a sign in my yard. I don't agree with him on a number of issues, but the man is HONEST which cannot be said for Hillary or Trump.

I also suspect he would veto more bad bills than sign executive actions that I wouldn't like. (I suspect Bernie supporters could say exactly the same thing which both delights and worries me.)

[–]scarthearmada 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

What I'm saying is that the Koch brothers are to the Left as Soros is to the right. Only the most ardent leftists care about the Koch brothers, and only the most ardent rights care about Soros. The Bernie Sanders supporters are going to mostly going to Hillary, with a few (single digits) abstaining from voting and a few (single digits, perhaps) going for a third party candidate.

You're not going to see waves and waves of voters from the general population shifting to Gary Johnson, or explicitly abstaining from him because he has the support of the Koch brothers.

[–]beyond_hateFLAIR EDITED BECAUSE OF FBI AND SHIT 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

How the hell did that start, anyway? The Kochs have come out against crony capitalism and for criminal justice reform.

[–]bonked_or_maybe_not 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Like PBS and NPR.... oh wait, you mean that some Democrats want us to ignore the name Soros and think Koch is the devil?

[–]voldin91 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair Hillary has gotten a lot of criticism for her big money donors too

[–]HalfPastTuna 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Watch Gary Johnson folds and allows the Koch brothers fist up his ass

[–]metalliskamutualist -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

"will now"? He's a business-friendly politician.

His speeches were for sale from day 1.

[–]Jaelup 113ポイント114ポイント  (10子コメント)

Gary Johnson denies it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/libertarian-candidate-disputes-koch-funding-story/

[–]DMooseJ 72ポイント73ポイント  (5子コメント)

"We have no knowledge of it," Johnson told CBS News when asked about the report, which first appeared on The Daily Caller, a conservative news site. "None whatsoever."

"You just got to laugh," Johnson added, chuckling.

What a quintessentially Gary Johnson response.

[–]jake_flyPeterson is a nerd 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

Midwestern AF.

[–]DMooseJ 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

He's just completely blase about this potentially huge development. He says you have to laugh and then immediately does so.

[–]Nowin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe if it came from PAC money, he wouldn't legally be able to talk about it.

[–]thehillshaveaviators 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

So what the hell now?

[–]GOA_AMD65 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

It'd be a superpac of some sort if Koch follows through.

[–]cookseancook 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

I might be wrong, but I think if it's PAC money Johnson cannot directly coordinate with Koch about it. So it makes sense that he would also deny knowledge of it.

[–]captaincruncheyMinarchist / Austrian Economics 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The most you can really do is privately "release" information or material that is intended for use by PACs, like those hella-awkward family tapes of Ted Cruz. You can also technically express your approval or disapproval of something that they're doing, so long as you're not actually speaking to them.

[–]-Hellfire-Classical Liberal 48ポイント49ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh shit, this is really huge. The Koch brothers are back. Now where is Cuban?

[–]heythisis-myusername 68ポイント69ポイント  (17子コメント)

It's happening!

[–]paxitasvoluntaryist 32ポイント33ポイント  (1子コメント)

http://i.imgur.com/r7akdoH.gifv

[–]temptingtimeGary Johnson 2012! 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a wonderfully clear gif. RP4lyfe

[–]Mattvision 62ポイント63ポイント  (14子コメント)

I almost want to take to the streets and dance. He's on all 50 ballots, in the polls, polling with usually double digits just for not being Trump or Hillary, and now he can fund an actual campaign. This is it. Johnson will be on the debate stage.

[–]backofthefridge 42ポイント43ポイント  (10子コメント)

He's "on track" to be on all 50 ballots. They still need volunteers/money to get that done.

[–]Not-Giving-You-Gold 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

I still can't find a source of what states need help and what they need.

[–]rockhoward 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

The national party coordinates ballot access efforts so donate there. If your state is currently petitioning then check with your state party to see how you can volunteer.

[–]Malkav1379 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Connecticut.

[–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]zachiswak 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    money? how does "millions" sound?

    [–]Bisonman81 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Anybody here know the deal with hiring people to get signitures?

    [–]Thadster 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Can't wait for him to to answer on the border issue.

    [–]charlesomimri 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'd say not a chance...but after Trump

    [–]drewshavermisesian 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Isn't it actually the LP with ballot access, not him until he secures the nom?

    [–]vox_libertatis 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

    A lot of people forget that David Koch was the VP on the 1980 Libertarian Party ticket. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see him return to the party when there's such a golden opportunity for it to finally succeed.

    [–]thehillshaveaviators 19ポイント20ポイント  (18子コメント)

    This is great news in that the campaign will finally have the necessary funding to hold rallies and get on the ballot, but I'm incredibly worried that this will ruin our chances to get a significant portion of Bernie Sanders supporters on our side when Sanders drops out.

    And yes, a portion of them can come to our side. Not all of them are adamant socialists that popped up out of no where, but many are just anti-establishment supporters who hate Trump.

    For some reason, the Koch brothers are demonized as greedy billionaires who use their wealth to control the country. If Gary Johnson enters the spotlight, this is going to be a difficult talking point to deal with.

    [–]bad_wolf_359 16ポイント17ポイント  (8子コメント)

    The difficulty will be in whether there are many Bernie supporters who would be willing to support a candidate with a radically different economic agenda. I voted for Bernie in the primaries (my state has an open primary system; I'm not a democrat) because he was the only candidate in the bipartisan universe who doesn't favor involvement in middle east conflicts and the war on drugs, and who actually cares about things like the 4th amendment and criminal justice reform. I'd like to think that when the general election comes around, some Bernie supports will make the same basic call and vote for Gary Johnson.

    That said, I'm pessimistic. I have quite a few Bernie supporters on my Facebook feed, and all they ever post about are his economic issues. Still, we can hope.

    *Edited for a typo at the end.

    [–]wfa19 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

    If Bernie supporters can support Trump they can support Johnson.

    [–]bad_wolf_359 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I think part of the problem is that Bernie's support comes from a variety of sources. Some people are feeling the Bern because of his economic policies - free college, $15 minimum wage, etc. They likely won't support Trump, Johnson, or even Clinton for that matter. I'd say a decent number of them stay home in November.

    Some are pissed off blue collar workers in industries like coal and manufacturing. They like Bernie because he talks about hating billionaires and blocking foreign trade. They're the ones who might be willing to vote for Trump, because he also talks about slapping massive tariffs on importers and opposing free trade.

    Then there's the disaffected semi-progressives who feel betrayed by Obama, and who view a vote for Bernie as a way of forcing the party lurch leftward. Despite their misgivings, they're still loyal democrats, and they'll vote Hillary when the time comes.

    The last group are the one's who like Bernie because he marched for civil rights, supports criminal justice reform, and wants to end the war on drugs. They're the one's we can target. I just don't know how may of them there are.

    [–]voldin91 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm kind of in the last category. I voted for Bernie in the primary and would have voted for him in the general (unless Rand Paul would have gotten traction on the R side). Since it's gonna end up Trump vs Clinton, I'm voting Johnson in the general

    [–]JuliettPapaRomeo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    lastGroup.members.add(me)

    Only supporting Bernie until he loses the nomination, voting Johnson in the general.

    [–]voldin91 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I've mentioned this before here, but I'm a Bernie supporter who will be voting for Johnson (or maybe I'm a libertarian who was supporting Bernie, I'm not sure which).

    My reasoning:

    Bernie is against corruption/big money in politics, he's got a pretty non-interventionalist foreign policy, he supports LGBT rights, wants to end the war on drugs (and by association putting less people in prison), and he's against government spying.

    Those things all more or less align with libertarian principles, and it's enough for me to support him. Economic issues aren't most important for me, and it's not like he'd be able to turn America into a socialist government anyway especially with our current congress

    [–]ZAN986I Voted 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Bernie is my #1 Choice, and Gary Johnson is #2

    [–]voldin91 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Rand was my #1, then Bernie. Since neither of them will be in the general I'm voting Johnson. I realize this might not make sense to some of you

    [–]hideous_coffee 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Tough to say. I'm guessing a lot of them are simply anti-establishment (hence the switch to Trump), and so they would be open to a guy like Johnson. A lot of them are also old Ron Paul supporters, so I'm sure they would come over. But I also think a lot of them are actually progressives.

    [–]rockhoward 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

    One way to counter that sentiment is to have them look into Cory Booker's various prison reform initiatives. Who does Cory credit as being his biggest supporters on this topic? The Koch brothers, Grover Norquist, Rand Paul, and other liberty minded politicos. As isidewith.com demonstrates, there is a lot of like-mindedness on a lot of issues between the far left and libertarians.

    [–]RPDBF 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Thing is people have to take the time to learn about libertarian ideas and these actual facts. They see Koch in any article and scream evil Koch brothers strike again! and they then feel any argument after is invalid.

    [–]rockhoward 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    There is no universal way to reach people who are predisposed in this way but I have had some luck by referring to Booker's own words about them.

    [–]shane_c 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Most of them dont even know who the Kochs are or care. Thats just people online that are really into politics.

    [–]RPDBF 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Funny thing is they support the majority of Kochs postions, almost all on social issues. The subsidies they complain the Kochs take are things they preach against, they take them because theyre avaliable while also saying they rather the government eliminate subsides entierly. Notice they never critize the people themseleves they say theyre evil for supporting campagins of people theyre also against and their business. The Kochs will be strategic about it and support candiates that are normally probably more libertarian (even if a hard republican) over a democrat.

    [–]scarthearmada -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    "The Koch brothers" was just a weak response to the Right's criticisms of the Left's love affairs with George Soros. The latter being insidious, the former being rather benign. An argument against Gary Johnson based on support from the Koch brothers isn't going to hold as much weight as people think.

    [–]kaydarylTolstoyan 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    In my experience with Berners in real life (a friend is part of the Sacramento activist group) they're mostly mad about dishonesty in government and just want someone not seen as "establishment." Yes, many of them are left-wing socialist types, but I think a lot of them can get behind someone who would make government spending more efficient before giving everyone freebies.

    [–]metalliskamutualist 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    For some reason, the Koch brothers are demonized as greedy billionaires who use their wealth to control the country

    Stupid Reality.

    As a side note, has anyone read Cato.org, fee.org, Mercatus.org or AmericansForProsperity today?

    [–]thesheep88 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Something big there today?

    [–]ptlx 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is totally fabricated. Spokesmen for the Johnson campaign have denied it, and so have spokesmen from Koch Industries.

    The Kochs aren't endorsing any presidential candidates.

    [–]AtlantanKnight7 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is huge. That money will be enough to get him on all the ballots AND start some ad campaigns. This is exactly what Johnson needed.

    [–]shane_c 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This and the Weld announcement is really going to create buzz. Prepare for another round of stories and interviews on cable news.

    [–]Nepata 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Interesting. I suppose it couldn't hurt, that extra funding is huge.

    [–]libbylibertarianBig Johnson 17ポイント18ポイント  (15子コメント)

    Bloody marvelous! Good to see the Koch's have finally ditched the GOP, and we are now in the game.

    [–]Need_vagina_pix_nao 1ポイント2ポイント  (13子コメント)

    I have very mixed emotions about this. The Kochs have used their money to manipulate the GOP for ages, but the year that their money can't get their preferred candidate through the gate, they go another direction and run the risk of putting the House of Representatives in charge of electing the president, which then puts their candidate of choice where they wanted them to begin with- in the White House. People are free to spend their money however they want. I just want to see someone in there who isn't bought and paid for and I don't consider Trump or Johnson either one bought and paid for. Clinton and Bernie, on the other hand....

    [–]ARedHouseOverYonderSalma Hayekian 8ポイント9ポイント  (10子コメント)

    But if it gives Johnson a chance, thats what matters. It allows a 3rd party in the game. We are destined for Clinton this go round, but maybe next election this drums up some good support for a 3rd party.

    [–]Need_vagina_pix_nao 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

    I think you're mistaken on Clinton. Too many people have a passionate hatred for her and it's not gender related, either. Trump is already ahead of her in a couple of polls released today and yesterday and it's only May. His numbers are as good or better than Reagan's at this point and the longer Hillary is under the spotlight, the worse her numbers are going to get.

    [–]ARedHouseOverYonderSalma Hayekian 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Clinton is going to destroy Trump. Like 15-20 points destroy. Like Michael Dukakis = Trump destroy.

    Sigh. The middle of the voting bloc will take the status quo over pure unadulterated chaos every time.

    [–]Need_vagina_pix_nao 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I'd be shocked to see that happen. There was nowhere near the excitement for Dukakis as there has been for Trump. He's garnered a record number of votes in a primary with 17 other candidates running. Imagine if it had been just him and just two others like Hillary has had. No, I think Clinton gets pounded like a Kansas fence post. She garners no excitement because she's bringing the same ol', same ol' to the race. No excitement equals no motivation to get off the couch on election day. I think that's the difference between Trump and Clinton. I think Trump would need to worry if it becomes him and Bernie running for some odd reason, but I doubt he'll lose any sleep if he's going up against Hillary. She started off weak and is not going to get any better.

    [–]ARedHouseOverYonderSalma Hayekian 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I think the crazy Trump is bringing is going to really backfire. Every year we get way too carried away with Primaries and what they show, but Trump hasnt shown ANY actual policies, any sort of common sense and just blasts off at the mouth. That appeals to a certain very vocal group of people, but in the grand scheme I dont think that gets him elected. If he were to win, even by the slightest margin, he would be the least likely candidate in a century. I just don't see it happening. Clinton is bad all around but I think slow and steady is going to win.

    [–]Need_vagina_pix_nao 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    One way or the other, the next six months should be interesting. Almost worth investing in a popcorn manufacturer :-D

    [–]ARedHouseOverYonderSalma Hayekian 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    and one way or the other, we are going to be in for a shitshow for the next 4 years. C'MON GARY!!

    [–]iopq 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    That's the common sense response. If you look into it further, Trump has been convincing voters to vote for him and outperforming expectations every single time.

    When he won all of those states in the primaries everyone was shocked. They never thought he'd win almost all of the early primaries.

    When he won states with a majority everyone was shocked again. They never thought he'd get above 30%.

    When he won Indiana people were shocked again because they didn't think he'd make enough delegates to lock the nomination.

    People are going to be shocked in November again, I think.

    [–]ARedHouseOverYonderSalma Hayekian 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Again, he's winning republican primaries. That's not a small feat but its not he general election. The US leans slightly to the left of center as a whole. I know plenty of democrats who despise Clinton but will vote for her because Trump is the worst of the worst in their minds. I know plenty of republicans who hate Trump and are going to vote 3rd party instead of Trump. Hooray for us on the fringes I guess, but my guess is this is a landslide for Hillary once we get on the real stage.

    One is a showman, con artist, magician (for gods sake's he has people believing he is actually rich), and one is a lying deceitful career politician. Every time we believe change is going to happen, the status quo wins out. Clinton gets elected.

    [–]iopq 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It doesn't matter what the US leans. Voters lean to the right. The smaller the turnout, the better Republicans do. These are the most hated candidates on both sides of all time. A Democrat has been president for 8 years and not everyone is happy with Obamacare.

    When Trump debates Hillary he's going to score emotional points. He's going to paint her as a crook and riding on Bill's coattails. Nobody will pay attention to policy.

    Hillary's numbers will dwindle during the campaign and Trump will win a convincing victory come November. Gary Johnson will barely register, I'm afraid. Even though I'm voting for him.

    [–]ARedHouseOverYonderSalma Hayekian 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    See I think the bombastic rhetoric is going to wear real thin with the general public. I am certainly tired of the reality tv show he is running. I wish he would state what he wants to actually do. I'm voting independent (gary if he makes our ballot) regardless because I'm a believer in the cause. I still think Hillary is going to run circles around him in debates and public appearances. Once he got on Fox News' bad side, no moderator is going to let him slide on pure BS.

    [–]libbylibertarianBig Johnson -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Here's the way I look at it. This election is about more than who sits in the White House the next four years. The American people are tired of the rigged duopoly and Libertarians are the antidote. Fact is you need money to run a campaign which has a shot at winning, so I wouldn't care if Beelzebub crossed the river Styx, rose up from Hades and decided to finance Gary Johnson's campaign.

    The Kochs tried to influence the GOP just like every individual Libertarian who joined so they could support Ron and Rand Paul.
    Now it's time for a new approach, and this election is by far the best opportunity for that. I am not so much concerned with winning as I am with using this historic opportunity to further the Libertarian cause. I mean if GJ won that would be practically utopian, but I'll settle for a strong showing.

    [–]Need_vagina_pix_nao 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'd love to see a third party gain traction in our current political scene. We need other options. That's for sure.

    [–]anarchitektMarket Socialist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It turns out to not be true.

    [–]PoppyOncrackRockefeller Republican 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is YUGE news if true.

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    [–]lusvigfriedmanite 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    More like BAEvid Koch

    [–]nickiterindividual rights liberal 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Denied by both Johnson campaign and Koch spokesman.

    [–]condorama 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Guys this isn't true. Sorry. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/libertarian-candidate-disputes-koch-funding-story/

    [–]captaincruncheyMinarchist / Austrian Economics 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's not like he would be seeing those funds come in just yet with the general still a little distant. Plus PACs are forbidden from communicating with candidates. The only way to know whether it's true or false is whether or not ads for Johnson start running like clockwork in a few months.

    [–]whaturpriceforflight 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Love this! May be finally coming over to the Libertarian train

    [–]lizard450 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    that moment when disenfranchised bernie supporters realize they are supporting the same candidate as a Koch brother.

    [–]captaincruncheyMinarchist / Austrian Economics 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So have the Kochs finally realized their whole "gradually change the system" schtick was just being part of the problem?

    Either way, Gary rallying millions would be enormous, and I'm not all too picky about the source.

    [–]Books_and_Cleverness 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Best news I've heard in a long time.

    Obviously we're all worried that others will call Johnson a puppet of some nefarious billionaire, but we should all make a point of letting people know that Gary J's been ideologically consistent for real long time.

    [–]DoubleDogDamnit 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    maybe not...

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/libertarian-candidate-disputes-koch-funding-story/

    [–]Irishguy317 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    To draw votes away from Trump and better secure a victory for Hillary, who he knows will take his money in some form or another : )

    [–]Chicup 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Libertarians get used to defeat Trump and elect corporate bought Hilary, thinks its a victory.

    [–]pacjaxfriedmanite 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    great now we're fucked. inb4 KOCH PUPPET!!! ILLUMINATI!!!!!

    [–]gxslim 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Where you at now Joe Rogan!

    [–]xCuni 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So what?

    [–]A_Second_World 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    We all knew Gary Johnson was susceptible to being bribed and bought by Koch. What a disappointment.

    Nothing but a sell out and a puppet of the Koch bros.

    [–]Odd-StrangerClassical Liberal 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    if this is true then right on. i hope they use it well, he's gona need it.

    [–]mikeanderson401 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    So just so I know what's going on here....Koch brothers give money to Dems and GOP and that's wrong, they give money to libertarians and it's right?

    [–]ltrytoohard -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Yea it doesnt make sense to me. I have no idea why anyone would think a man and family with this bad a reputation supporting a "libertarian" can be a good idea

    [–]iopq 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah, supporting stem-cell research, gay rights, free markets; opposing the war on drugs, the Iraq war. What an asshole.

    [–]mikeanderson401 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    A turd is a turd.

    [–]Siouxper_Drunk 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    They are just trying to stop Trump. They know they can easily control Hillary. Johnson won't win, if you want change vote for Trump. The elites are trying to stop him for a reason...

    [–]-Venator- 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yes, exactly what we need. Another candidate owned by a globalist corporation.

    [–]Rohkii -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

    So many of you are naive in this sub thinking this will be nothing but good for him. You realize nearly everyone else hates the Koch brothers right?

    [–]Masturnate65Feeling the Johnson 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Me right now!

    [–]strongjohnny 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I will be in Orlando and its not a lock he gets the nomination.

    [–]Blobbybluebland 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is Koch's way of keeping Trump away from his gravy train, without having to take any heat for supporting Hillary.

    [–]MuffDragon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Holy shit, that's a damn good way to get some more media attention

    [–]ShelledThrower2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    ANNNNNNND all of a sudden people think the Kochs aren't so bad.

    [–]FaceFive 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Late to the party here but, isn't this just a ploy to siphon votes away from Trump so they get Hillary. The Kochs are fine with Hillary. Great that the campaign gets an influx of cash but it has nothing to do with them "leaving" the GOP and everything to do with getting their only viable choice left in the White House

    [–]AdamSB08 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The Kochs have always been libertarian. David Koch was the Libertarian VP candidate in 1980. They've just spent too long playing the "lesser of two evils" game.

    [–]ltrytoohard -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This isnt a good thing wtf

    [–]whater39 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I know the Koch's have said they are Libertarian. But... I don't trust them, I think they are kinda bad/evil.

    [–]Second_Horseman -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Does anyone read the fucking article?! The pledge was denied! It says so in the bloody title. As far as we know it never happened.

    It's click bait.

    [–]DMooseJ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Tone down the incredulity there, obviously this was posted before the update to the story.

    [–]A_Second_World -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Does this meant Johnson will be bought out by the Koch? w

    [–]LetUncleSamFixIt -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I wish this were true, but both Gary Johnson and a Koch Rep are denying it.

    [–]waxtats -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Turns out to be false. Time to back Trump I guess.

    [–]Enviromente -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is not gonna take the momentum away from Bernie...although it could work for the media manipulation to cover Killary stealing.

    [–]GaryTalon -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    In an attempt to make the Libertarian party look "owned" by big corporate? I don't like this. I know the Kochs are libertarians.

    [–]Geofferic -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The only thing that would be actually beneficial is Koch pledging millions to the Libertarian party and campaigns at the local and state level.

    To me, this exposes Koch as pro-establishment.

    [–]wishninja2012 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Maybe DK is getting more libertarian? No it has to be some kind of trap.

    [–]itsasecretoeverybody -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I guess the Libertarians are the useful idiots this election season.

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