全 104 件のコメント

[–]Dumbhandle [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The zeitgeist over at btc and btcmarkets has gone into full blown depression and hopelessness over the last few days. They are even accusing core of purposely destroying bitcoin as they buy ethereum in secret. The shift is accelerating.

[–]Introshine [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

What is Dead May Never Die

-GoT

[–]niahckcolbredditor for 2 months [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die..

Lovecraft

[–]Hitchslappy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

While I agree that this sub has its problems - namely too much circlejerk and censorship, r/btc is a total cesspit. IMO it is not an alternative bitcoin subreddit, it is an anti-bitcoin Core subreddit pure and simple.

You cannot post anything on there without it turning into a inflammatory shitfest of "Blockscheme Core" this, "the Core Junta" that - the charged language alone should be enough to raise a red flag in the minds of readers.

Then there's the conspiracy theories, the FUD, the unreasonable users who think bitcoin belongs to them, the users who claim to know with certainty the future, the alt-coin fanboys, etc. etc. The list of reasons to avoid that sub is endless. The only reason to visit it is to expose yourself to different views and the occasional interesting post that doesn't show up on here.

I would love to see their faces if Core fulfil the promise of bitcoin and the price skyrockets, while they sold at $400... here's hoping :)

[–]IllusionDestroyer666redditor for 2 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

For those of you who are heavy in Bitcoin should welcome this FUD as it allows you to accumulate at lower prices. Once Bitcoin goes up, you're not going to be able to afford to get so many more at that point as you will be buying in small fractions of a bitcoin isntead of buying whole bitcoins.

[–]Shmullus_Zimmerman [スコア非表示]  (26子コメント)

This sub also has its share of nastiness, another side of the same coin we see there (pun not intended).

I do cringe from time to time when reading both subs.

Bitcoin needs a watershed moment where we can come together and kick ass.

Its astonishing to me that there is so much infighting. Bitcoin has real adversaries, and legitimate challenges on the horizon. It would be nice if we could interrupt the circular firing squad long enough to look forward.

[–]FractalGlitch [スコア非表示]  (25子コメント)

Yeah, this sub is as bad as btc basically. Let's watch all those 999 Kb block but let's not discuss about increasing the block size because some unproven technology will save us all some time in the future.

And I'm sitting here, seeing my tx fees explode from a tenth of a cent to 13-20 cents or more, not knowing what side I should take. All I know is we need a fix now, and not some times in the future.

Anyway nobody will see this because it will be downvoted into oblivion because I brought the fucking blocksize in the wrong sub. Two fucking echo chamber that look at one another thinking they are better. Fucking pathetic.

[–]spitgriffin [スコア非表示]  (20子コメント)

Why is increasing the block size to 2mb such a taboo subject over here? With the blocks running up to 999kb, Isn't that the logical thing to do? If this is what's dividing the community it seems like something that can be easily resolved? Please someone explain what crucial point I'm missing here?

[–]FractalGlitch [スコア非表示]  (14子コメント)

Honestly, I never understood the argument against increasing the blocksize beside creating a fee market.

I feel like blocksize should be increased to control the fee market. A few days ago I had to pay 13 cent for a 1 block confirmation delay.

I pay 12.95$for unlimited transaction on my debit card and I do about 150 tx per month. My bank is 50% cheaper per tx than bitcoin now, I find this ludicrous.

Other thing I don't understand is that it is pretty much impossible to put more than 4000 tx per block, so about 576k tx per day. Visa does that in what? A few minutes? Less?

[–]14341 [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Decentralized solutions are always much more expensive than centralized solutions. Bitcoin's value does not come from cheap transactions, but from the fact that it is trustless. I find it really ridiculous when big blockers complaining about 10 cent per Bitcoin tx while Paypal is charging 1.9% - 3.4% to sellers.

[–]FractalGlitch [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Yeah, that's where I checkout from those discussion usually. I'm sorry but bitcoin HAS value to some people for both of those reasons and they are not edge cases because you would have only a few people complaining, not a complete sub...

Also, it doesn't fix the 600k tx a day hard limit.

[–]14341 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

That complete sub does not represent majority.

[–]FractalGlitch [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I agree. However should it be ignored.

If you want to see this like that, today at least 10% feels like blocksize is a major problem. Should we wait until 20%, 50% unsatisfied users? Until the day we have to put the system in alert an implement a 0-day fix basically?

I am not saying that increasing the blocksize is the final answer but maybe we could increase it to 2mb soon (I don't believe we are in a rush yet...) because there is a long way to go until we find a solution to the problem, because it will be a problem, at least someday in the future.

Today we have 13 cents tx, when I first came in contact with bitcoin, the idea of putting a fee was laughable, merely a donation to miners (which they did not care). When does it become a real problem, at 50cents, 1$, 20$ a tx? I don't know but if bitcoin continue to progress at the same rhythm, I guess we will know in a few years.

I am not really on any side. I am as much critical of /r/btc as I am of /r/bitcoin but what I find weird is that we never hear an concrete answer to that problem. It's either:

  1. It's not a problem at all, go away.
  2. But bro, block propagation.
  3. X Y Z financial services is charging more anyway.
  4. Off-chain bla bla bla.

Anyway, like I said, I am nor against or for blocksize increase, I simply don't know. All I say is that we are slowly heading towards the wall of the transaction limit, when we reach it tx fees will explode and then we will have a huge problem on our hands.

Let's hope this never happens.

[–]CydeWeys [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Also, it doesn't fix the 600k tx a day hard limit.

Huh? I'm not aware of any such limit. What are you referring to? 600K per day is just a figure derived from multiplying the number of simple transactions that fit into a 1 MB block times the number of blocks that you get in an average day.

[–]FractalGlitch [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Yeah, so it's not a imposed limit, it's a technical limit. What is the difference?

If you'd try to buy something with your visa would you care if it was a government imposed limit or simply that they are unable to process your tx?

[–]CydeWeys [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The point is that it's a limit easily solved by segwit and/or a larger block size, preferably both in combination. So it's not a hard limit in the same sense as, say, the government making something illegal for you to do.

[–]FractalGlitch [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Oh yeah, in that sense for sure, I agree.

It is not a problem as long as we work towards a solution. I too don't think seg wit alone is a solution.

[–]violencequalsbad [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

block propagation m9. downloading larger blocks takes longer, gives larger mining pools an (increased) advantage over smaller ones.

orfan blocks already happen, and they suck. more would suck more.

[–]trrrrouble [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Are orphan blocks really such a huge deal?

[–]violencequalsbad [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

the larger the blocksize, the more of a big deal they become.

if you spend 30 seconds downloading the information you need to start a 10 minute race, you're at a huge disadvantage compared to whoever won the last race.

[–]trrrrouble [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

So what you are saying is, this leads to miner centralization.

We can actually sort of test this. We have history, and if your hypothesis is correct, larger blocks should be orphaned more often than smaller blocks.

[–]NaturalBornHodler [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

jtoomim tested exactly that to prove once and for all that 8 MB blocks would be fine, but then his tests showed that the upper limit is 2-4 MB for now.

[–]FractalGlitch [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I am a miner and I don't agree.

Yes orphan block will happen and it sucks. But miner do not create value if nobody uses it.

Today we are starting to see the hard limit of daily tx. When we hit the limit the fees will start to raise more and more and then people will complain like hell.

Anyway, just my opinion, I do not have absolute truth, just like blockstream developers do not have it.

[–]bjman22 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I never got the impression that discussing 2mb blocks is a taboo subject here. It was discussed for a LONG time and most bitcoin developers felt it was a bad idea. I believe you can discuss it again here at any time. I think what happened was that when a 2mb hard fork was rejected, some people started to promote a 'roundabout' way of doing that by encouraging the use of alternate clients (eg. BitcoinXT & Bitcoin Classic) that would shift control of the bitcoin protocol to a few people who may have different agendas. I think that promoting the use of those clients is what's not allowed here because it is seen as creating an 'alternate' bitcoin protocol--ie. an altcoin.

[–]siir [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Because people get banned for bring it up as an option, so now there are few people left to talk about it and those that do don't want to be banned for discussion

[–]MineForeman [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Because people get banned for bring it up as an option

Twaddle, you have been listening to the trolls.

[–]pb1x [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

For a standard tx, the fastest possible fee is $0.05. Suggested fees have been a few pennies for many years now

[–]FractalGlitch [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If your standard tx is 1 address to 1 address, yeah sure everything is cool. Outside of that, not so much.

[–]MinersFolly [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

20 cents or more is still a bargain compared to the oligarchy running payment schemes and wire-monopolies.

I'll never understand why someone thinks the ratio of fees to amounts being sent is some kind of massive cost. It isn't.

[–]FractalGlitch [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's a massive cost if you want to send 2$.

This is the divide between "bitcoin is a payment system" and "bitcoin is something else" (that I don't seem to understand because I use it heavily as a payment system). Does you bank charge you 20 cent everytime you buy a bus ticket?

There is the problem. I have no problem with even 1$ fees when I send stuff for at least 1 btc. when I send .002 btc, 20 cents is not so cool anymore.

[–]sreaka [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's almost impossible to read there. Every post is highly editorialized and subjective. It comes off as very neckbeardy.

[–]NervousNorbert [スコア非表示]  (18子コメント)

You make it look like that sub is only about altcoin pumping. In fact, there's plenty of namecalling going on as well.

[–]Anduckk [スコア非表示]  (16子コメント)

Don't forget slandering & harassing. That sub is a bit like r/buttcoin, but more bitter and more angry.

[–]NimbleBodhi [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Lets not forget about all the ridiculous conspiracy theories too.

[–]emmischmied [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I work at a bank and got this in my email:

Blockstream = Scammers

Ben Gorlick https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wrihv/three_strikes_against_cloudhashingcom/ Cloudhashing.com scams, Computer Theft, Fraud, Drug trafficking

BtcDrak
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1301169.0
Viacoin scam

Peter Todd
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=335658.0
Viacoin scams with btcdrak and possibly with CIA

Patrick Strateman
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159071.0
Intersango, Bitcoinica scam

Adam Back
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/47fr3p/4_weird_facts_about_adam_back_1_he_never/
Deceptive practices, Computer Theft, Fraud, Drug trafficking

Gregory Maxwell
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/457y0k/greg_maxwells_wikipedia_war_or_he_how_learned_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/42vqyq/blockstream_core_dev_greg_maxwell_still_doesnt/
History of censorship, Computer Theft, Fraud, Drug trafficking

Luke Dashjr
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4i90rq/lukejr_16_is_a_good_age_to_marry_and_get_started/
Unstable

Mark Friedenbach and Jorge Timon
http://themisescircle.org/blog/2013/08/22/the-problem-with-altcoins/
"Freicoin is not a scam, it's an abortion"

Austin Hill
http://betakit.com/montreal-angel-austin-hill-failed-spectacularly-before-later-success/
Self admitted scammer

[–]CosmicHemorroid [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Do you mean reddit private mail (PM)? or actual email.

[–]bitmegalomaniac [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Did you really get that in your email?

Posts like that make me think that we are really getting places if people are so desperate to discredit members of the community. Always reminds me of this article.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/i-m-a-former-green-beret-here-s-how-i-would-bring-down-bitcoin-1456165726

[–]apoefjmqdsfls [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I feel like they completely replaced the /r/buttcoin-ers, either the butters turned into r/btc-ers or their troll skills just weren't high enough to play along with the r/btc-ers and they just stay in their own sub now.

[–]pitchbend [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's because your view is biased by your agenda, r/buttcoin wants to see bitcoin fail, both small and bigblockers want to see bitcoin succeed but can't agree how.

[–]db2 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I got a laugh out of the buttcoin site, the one that listed (supposedly) every possible privkey. Tried a few dozen for kicks, found a few that had been used but none with a balance.

edit: tpyo

[–]Zeeterm [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

You are lying if you say you even found one that had been used. Finding 3 would be world breaking news. You don't understand how unlikely it is to brute force a private key.

[–]db2 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I guess I broke the world then. Or got lucky, statistically speaking.

[–]Zeeterm [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, you're just lying.

Seriously, you're claiming you tried random keys and found one that matched a wallet. That's literally brute force and is computationally infeasible. You're claiming you did it in a few dozen checks. Even with a few billion attempts it is less likely than picking the correct grain of sand from a beach. There is zero chance what you are saying is true.

[–]pitchbend [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's funny because you make it sound as if r/bitcoin is free from slandering & harassing anyone that disagrees with the blockstream agenda. Not to mention banning.

[–]sreaka [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I agree, the sub has moved to Eth pumping, I'm tired of posting "what does this have to do with Bitcoin" Occasionally there are some good topics.

[–]Internet151 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Anyone with a stake in any currency or asset should always be looking out for potential problems with their investment and never turning a blind eye to them. This title here is sensationalized and dramatic.

[–]Blocksteamerredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

From someone in BTC since May 2011... I don't really disagree with much of the sentiment. The blind absolute faith on this sub is astonishing. The complacency is quite something. The complete rejection of all critique, self analysis/criticism only leads to bad places. I don't own any altcoins but Ethereum's rise has been quite something and it isn't based on nothing like all the others, it is out innovating bitcoin. And the slowness of Bitcoin development is ruining its first mover advantage. Sucks...

[–]Sugar_Daddy_Peter [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

You've been involved with Bitcoin since 2011 but joined Reddit 3 months ago? Do you have an older account to verify that you are not a troll?

  1. Can't etherium just be bolted on top of Bitcoin?
  2. Isn't etherium much more centralized due to a smaller user base and short life so far?
  3. Don't the developers say etherium is not a competitor or a store of value and that the coins are not at a fixed rate of inflation, but rather subject to the developers?
  4. If etherium supersedes Bitcoin what supersedes etherium in a few years?

[–]db2 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Bitcoin is dead and eth is best because shut up, that's why.

[–]jwBTC [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I voted up Blocksteamer, and I've been mining since 2011. I own zero alts, all in on bitcoin. I'm hoping ETH goes the way of DOGE, but I was also expecting a temporary 1MB spam cap would be a quick-hardfork-and-move-on scenario but lets just say I've been rather surprised this past year!

Honestly I'm more scared for Bitcoin now than when MtGox failed... and I actually lost some coins there!

[–]smithd98 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm more scared for Bitcoin now than when MtGox failed

Same with me!

[–]Amichateur [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

A critical link to a 5-videos-series abou ether was linked in that subreddit as well, and that was also up(!)voted.

That videos explains, amongst others, why Smart Contracts on Ethereum won't work at large scale.

https://youtu.be/xGu0o8HH10U?list=PLw8-6ARlyVciMH79ZyLOpImsMug3LgNc4

[–]quixotes [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Oh, it's quite the opposite. Core's roadmap is well thought out and cautious which is exactly what I want as an investor. If Eth is already out-innovating bitcoin then what are yous still doing here?

[–]vroomDotClub [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Very good question quixotes.. think deeply on that? why do they use BTC to promote ether if it's so great? I suspect there are 'bad elements' behind Ether but its totally a hunch.. Who is behind it? How is it positioned for the main issue of Centralization and Control?

[–]Anonobread- [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

From someone in BTC since May 2011... the complete rejection of all critique, self analysis/criticism

No - by "all critique", what you mean is your critique.

Your interests were duly noted, and summarily rejected by the technical community. Now you feel disenfranchised? That's bad. I mean, gosh with how hot the altcoin markets are it's a miracle you haven't "diversified"!

OTOH, my interests were thoroughly represented. And although I'd be happy as the next guy to extend the 18 month long debate another 6 months, that's just unreasonable at this point. I'm afraid you're gonna have to face the fact that blockchain scalability is a real tough nut to crack.

The blind absolute faith on this sub is astonishing

Someone alert the media: Reddit voting has produced a circle jerk.

[–]IllusionDestroyer666redditor for 2 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I haven't ignored your critques. I've merely logically responded to them countless times why they are wrong in their assumptions until I got sick of writing the same shit hundreds of times (on my old account). Bitcoin is fine and on the right path.

[–]hairy_unicorn [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Wow - there sure are a lot of nervous nellies over there.

[–]TheAlexGalaxy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If any community would understand network effects, you would think it would be /r/btc

[–]kyletorpey [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It would be better if everyone just acted like rbtc did not exist. I stopped going there after realizing debates there were just a time suck. After I left, they started mention my username to try to bring me back. I turned off username mention notifications. Now they've been sending "tips" to Bitcoin news sites claiming that I'm paid off by Blockstream. Can't be sure of their motives, but it's best to just ignore that toxic community entirely.

[–]UKcoin [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

funny how the pump of ETH coincides with the increase in anti core attacks and how all the Classic fans love ETH but hate BTC yet claim they should be given control of Bitcoin. They also think that going from a group of 84+ developers to basically 5 or 6 is a great way to decentralise Bitcoin. Roger Ver should be ashamed of himself for what he has let that sub become. I wonder how much he sold himself out for to R3 troll brigade.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]Bitcoin-FTWredditor for 19 days [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Man that sub is toxic. Clicked on all of those threads hoping I could scroll down and find counter arguments, but nope. And we are the echo chamber?! We have counter views expressed on basically everything.

    ETH is volatile right now. Traders like volatility. That is why traders are dabbling in ETH. That is why exchanges are adding it. Why in the world wouldn't they add the coin that is getting all the trade volume?

    Yet.. Here bitcoin sits, quiet in the corner, at a remarkably stable price of $455. First volatility was going to be the end of bitcoin, now it's stability... Ok...

    Some of my favorite copy and pasta arguments they make over there:

    "Miner's are really gonna struggle after the halving, they are already struggling at this price level!" Yeah? How about that whole fucking year spent at around $230 where the hashrate just kept on growing? The price is double now. Do I really need to do that math for you to show that current price could easily sustain them through a reward drop?

    "It's in everyone's best interest to switch away from Core!" Yeah? Then why the fuck is no one doing it? Why the fuck did nobody even give classic a try?!

    "By holdig bitcoins you are supporting core. I'll buy mine back when Core is not leading anymore." Yeah you will buy them back. You'll be buying them back with all of your ETH, at a price much higher then the current price. Where you are wrong is that Core won't be in charge.

    "Too late to save bitcoin now" LOLOLOLOL. Have these guys not checked the fucking price?

    What's most hilarious is all these Mike Hearn, "abandon ship!" types have left the market, and yet here we are at a stable $455.... Hmmm what happens when they start racing each other to get back in...

    [–]UberSatoshiredditor for 9 days [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

    That sub is disgusting - it does not have anything to do with btc other spreading FUD about it. /r/btc is full of ethereum trolls.

    [–]nimanator [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

    What's pathetic is that they force this piece of shit sub into my zeroblock feed every day, without letting me turn it off while leaving /r/Bitcoin active

    [–]nederhandal [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

    Thank Roger for that.

    [–]Aviathor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Roger is for rbtc what trollfi is for rbuttcoin

    [–]nimanator [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    I know, pretty lame move IMO

    [–]nederhandal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    especially because the horizontal graph has still been broken since iOS 9 came out a year ago.

    [–]Shadered [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    /r/btc has come a long way. It was ok at first because of the censorship but it's like a worse /r/buttcoin now.

    [–]14341 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    r/btc is so good at spreading FUD, it makes r/buttcoin obsolete.

    [–]vroomDotClub [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    They say it can't scale.. But with lightning it scales fine and the 'build on top' model is way more stable than 'all things to all people' model but they are too short sighted to see this. Bitcoin is much like an OS rather than trying to be a peice of client software that does it all and this is much safer approach as the '1 coin does all' ignores the tradeoffs inherent in that. It's much like Bitcon is like Linux and Ether is Apple. IMO

    [–]Ponulens [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    ...and YOU keep stirring up the controversy by having this thread as top 4th.

    [–]Savage_X [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Add the declaration to the list!

    [–]Aviathor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Please don't quote rbuttcoin here, please don't quote rbtc here.

    [–]fuzee_64 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    why is this even posted here? so dumb.

    [–]JD-Quadredditor for 19 days [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    here we go again

    [–]Anderol [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    I wouldnt be surprised if a few of those paid Hillary Clinton trolls hang out in there.