politics 内の 138Tulip によるリンク 31 Kentucky counties report election fraud Tuesday

[–]skribeiv 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

Vote for our candidate or we might have violent revolution. We aren't violent though. I'm just saying that it's something we think about and you should too.

politics 内の BernieBro によるリンク Sanders Statement on Nevada: "Party leaders in Nevada, for example, claim that the Sanders campaign has a ‘penchant for violence.’ That is nonsense. Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence."

[–]skribeiv 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who fucking cares? That's the point. Why would I give a shit? Good for you. Do you need a fucking participation trophy or something? Maybe a sticker?

I realize you guys have this obsessive-compulsive need to spread the good word of your Lord and savior and know you want to defend him, but I can't tell you how many shits I don't give.

enoughsandersspam 内の redoryellow によるリンク @aseitzwald: "JUST IN: Bernie Sanders statement on NV Dem convention. No apology, blames party, issues ultimatum."

[–]skribeiv 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok, I'll bite. This is the wrong forum, but I'll bite.

What makes Clinton an asshole? She hasn't said a negative thing about Sanders or his supporters. She hasn't, historically, been known to be an asshole. So tell me: where do you get this? Do you actually PERSONALLY remember Clinton as a leader, or are you just a young guy going off of what he reads on Reddit?

enoughsandersspam 内の redoryellow によるリンク @aseitzwald: "JUST IN: Bernie Sanders statement on NV Dem convention. No apology, blames party, issues ultimatum."

[–]skribeiv 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

Look, you seem like a good kid, but I think you've missed my point. This sub IS an intentional circlejerk. That's all we do here. Occasionally we find ourselves having more legitimate discussions, but only by accident.

If you would like to get those real comparisons then head over to /r/askhillarysupporters or /r/HillaryClinton. The former is probably best if you're gonna ask controversial questions.

But, listen, THIS sub, isn't going to give you serious answers. This sub is specifically to make fun of Sanders and his supporters.

I commend you for asking some questions, but I'm telling you that this is NOT the place you want to do it. By all means, though, go visit AHS and talk to them. They're nice folks.

EDIT: Alternatively, you could go find something stupid about Bernie (there is plenty to choose from) and join us! We always love new shills, and the pay is GREAT!

enoughsandersspam 内の redoryellow によるリンク @aseitzwald: "JUST IN: Bernie Sanders statement on NV Dem convention. No apology, blames party, issues ultimatum."

[–]skribeiv 31ポイント32ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love when you idiots come in here and say this shit. As if this sub makes any pretense at being a serous political sub. If you choose to come and troll here, you should expect less than fair responses.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

politics 内の BernieBro によるリンク Sanders Statement on Nevada: "Party leaders in Nevada, for example, claim that the Sanders campaign has a ‘penchant for violence.’ That is nonsense. Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence."

[–]skribeiv 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

There was nothing in the previous post to deflect. You made a stupid comment, I made fun of it. I don't think you know what deflection is.

Seriously though, shouldn't you be calling that superdelegate to tell him how much of a piece of shit he is or disrupting his business or something? I mean, he switched from SANDERS to CLINTON. That has to make him the worst form of human refuse.

He must pay penance!

politics 内の BernieBro によるリンク Sanders Statement on Nevada: "Party leaders in Nevada, for example, claim that the Sanders campaign has a ‘penchant for violence.’ That is nonsense. Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence."

[–]skribeiv -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

And here I was, thinking you were whiny children who complain over every little thing that doesn't go your way, and blame absolutely everyone else for all of your faults. My mistake. Did you hear that Sanders lost a superdelegate today? You better get a post up to tell everyone how much of a terrible person he is, how the DNC corrupted him, and how much he deserves to die.

politics 内の BernieBro によるリンク Sanders Statement on Nevada: "Party leaders in Nevada, for example, claim that the Sanders campaign has a ‘penchant for violence.’ That is nonsense. Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence."

[–]skribeiv 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

For what it's worth, I'm in the same boat. Voted for Sanders, definitely regret it.

Edit: I think it's hilarious that you people have such low tolerance for dissent that you can't even help but downvote a statement of personal fact that you don't like. Bring it on, children. Hiding this comment won't regain my support, or anyone else's.

politics 内の skribeiv によるリンク Nevada Democratic Party Letter to the Democratic National Committee (PDF Copy)

[–]skribeiv[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the dumbest fucking thing in this thread, and it was completely moronic of Sanders to even make that comparison.

The chair of the NSDP did not fucking break into his office or shoot into it.

Random acts of violence in a vacuum are NOT comparable to official campaign representatives behaving like petulant children because they either cannot or DO not understand posted rules.

That response from Sanders was beyond pathetic, and you're going to see it universally panned all day today. I would just set it out of your mind. It isn't going to be persuasive to anyone.

politics 内の skribeiv によるリンク Nevada Democratic Party Letter to the Democratic National Committee (PDF Copy)

[–]skribeiv[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

NV Sanders supporters and the NV DNC had already gone to court in an attempt to settle a question of deadline for candidacy to the Executive Board and a rule that made local leadership elections only possible if someone left their position.

I know this, and the case was thrown out because the complaint was not valid. The judge ruled that the organization had the right to set the rules, and that the fact that the applicants missed the deadline was disqualifying per the rules.

Qarum for the first vote, the early scheduling of it and the elimination of the margin of victory from the conference in April and many other issues is clear overreach of authority and should be protested by any Democratic delegate or they would simply not have done their job. Signing petitions and having them submitted is also their 'job'. No fault for them insisting on due process as this was why they were sent there in the first place.

Quorum was 40%, which they had. And, again, the point that you are not addressing: the only alternative to the adoption would have been an amendment, which neither delegation had the majority required to pass. There was literally no possible alternative outcome had they waited. It just would have provided more opportunity for people to be disruptive, because they did not understand these rules.

The same applies to the petitions. Despite the signatures, the supermajority required was not obtained. It may have been their JOB, but they needed to recognize when their efforts were going to go unrewarded. But, again, they didn't really seem to understand these rules.

The discussion of political issues seem to be another key difference where Sanders delegates felt the need to mend the party program and also have a "visionary discussion" on how to go about future elections (banning super delegates and such). They also saw this as an opportunity to raise party political questions and I imagine that this was partly the result of not having agreed on a common platform before the conference.

I'm starting to feel like you, also, still do not understand the rules. I mean no offense, but I am starting to feel like a bit of a broken record having to address the same rules problem over and over.

Amending the agenda to add this item would ALSO have required the 2/3rds majority that the delegation didn't have.

ANY modification to the rules or the agenda required the super-majority, per the rules.

There was an organized effort to disenfranchise Sanders delegates but that has come to be expected from the Hillary campaign and DNC by now. The criticism from the Minority Report should be taken seriously and its recommendations seemed fair.

The letter discredits this claim, and based on the actual evidence here, I am inclined to agree with it. The minority report, assuming that the letter's account of the 64 delegates is accurate, was ENTIRELY wrong. 64 delegates, in total, were disqualified by the cross-campaign committee alongside an unknown number of Clinton delegates. Out of those delegates, only EIGHT showed up to register for the event, and of those 8, SIX were given seats when they were able to provide documentation.

If this account is accurate, than the minority report was, exactly as the letter claims, an entirely unnecessary bit of showboating.

For disclosure: I find the OVERWHELMING majority of disenfranchisement claims by Sanders supporters to be dishonest. It often seems to be to be the case that they simply do not understand rules and procedures. Whether this is a personal failure to research facts, or the fault of the campaign for providing inaccurate or incomplete instructions to their delegates, I have no idea.

Despite intentions to "ensure an efficient meeting of the minds" this utterly failed by the chair and the organization around the convention.

I see no evidence that this was in any way the fault of either the procedures or the chair. Rather, it seems entirely apparent to me, from the videos, that proper parliamentary procedure had been entirely discarded by a solid chunk, if not the majority, of the Sanders delegation. Having been a chair, in that position, the only thing the chair could have done would have been to have them thrown out. Maybe she should have. She had every right to, per the disruptions section in the rules that apparently nobody read.

But also because NV DNC didn't want to discuss politics but have a "work meeting" and not a political venue for airing and reconcilíng differences of opinions.

The point of these conventions is not to have a working discussion. And the neither the rules as adopted, nor the format of the convention, support such a meeting.

This was not a caucus. The delegates were not supposed to be here to raise objections and make changes. The Nevada voters had already spoken. This convention was simply to assemble the state's delegation for the national convention.

Since the Sanders delegation lacked the requisite super majority to make any changes, the chair was, in my view, right to simply move forward with that process.

There need to be a dialog between Sanders and Hillary supporters and in absence of such a dialog and venue - you will have this angry and high tensions.

This convention was not the appropriate location to do that. You do not have meaningful and productive political discussion with a few thousand people in a ballroom.

I realize that the Sanders delegation WANTED that, but that wasn't the point here, and they did not have the political power to change it. Thus, they were simply being disruptive.

With Bernie Sanders being a unique candidate, according to his supporters, in that he is principled and honest. He does not try to seek every advantage possible to secure a delegate here or there. Attack the character of opponents or obfuscate their political plan.

I vehemently and empirically disagree with this. I think it is intellectually dishonest to even say.

I also just think the rest of the conjecture here is...imaginative.

politics 内の skribeiv によるリンク Nevada Democratic Party Letter to the Democratic National Committee (PDF Copy)

[–]skribeiv[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, you just don't understand what a complaint looks like. You think that it should be some cold account of the facts.

politics 内の skribeiv によるリンク Nevada Democratic Party Letter to the Democratic National Committee (PDF Copy)

[–]skribeiv[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You certainly have a voice, but mocking people who are so much closer to the circumstances, both literally and figuratively, than you are, seems...short sighted. Have you considered that you are, perhaps, missing some context?

You say that you're abroad for work, but you're equally comfortable making comparisons between the American political landscape and that of wherever you are, so it seems to me that you have loyalties there regardless. That is, you seem to think that it is morally, if not practically, superior.

I think that lack of investment erodes your credibility.

politics 内の skribeiv によるリンク Nevada Democratic Party Letter to the Democratic National Committee (PDF Copy)

[–]skribeiv[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In the context of you not even living in the U.S., it's tough to take your perspective on this seriously. Do you really think that you have an accurate picture of corruption in American politics based on what you read on the internet?

politics 内の skribeiv によるリンク Nevada Democratic Party Letter to the Democratic National Committee (PDF Copy)

[–]skribeiv[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not sure why you would say that it's the opposite of the videos. I think, to be honest, that their take is entirely consistent with the videos.

The videos are just videos. They lack any sort of explanatory context. It's just a bunch of people being outraged about various things. It makes no attempt to set that outrage next to the actual rules to explain whether or not there was actually a reason to be outraged.

This letter actually prompted me to look up the convention rules, and the party's version of events is MUCH more consistent with the rules as published than the Sanders delegation's version of events.

From where I'm sitting, the letter is right. They just didn't understand the rules. If anything, I found the letter to be a wonderful source of context to explain things that simply did not make sense from the delegates' narrative.

EDIT: Added link to convention rules.

politics 内の skribeiv によるリンク Nevada Democratic Party Letter to the Democratic National Committee (PDF Copy)

[–]skribeiv[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you really not understand that the point of the complaint isn't to appear neutral? It is, of course, heavily biased to one particular perspective. You seem to just take issue with the fact that it seeks to paint the Sanders supporters in an unmistakably negative light. But that's the point. It's a complaint about Sanders supporters. That is how these sorts of complaints read.

enoughsandersspam 内の TheFedorati によるリンク The comments on this post are a buffet of delusion.

[–]skribeiv 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was thinking the same thing. Almost want to encourage him to post that in /r/legaladvice just to watch the fireworks.

politics 内の skribeiv によるリンク Nevada Democratic Party Letter to the Democratic National Committee (PDF Copy)

[–]skribeiv[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, it's supported by the fact that this is how party politics works, and we know that from decades of political science studies. Whereas the Clinton as corporate stooge thesis is based on...pure conjecture.

I'm not interested in swaying your opinion on the matter, so we can just disagree, but it isn't like the opposing proposition that I'm offering you is equivalent in support to your own.

politics 内の skribeiv によるリンク Nevada Democratic Party Letter to the Democratic National Committee (PDF Copy)

[–]skribeiv[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I know that's the narrative. I don't particularly find that thesis well-supported, but I know that's the line. It seems far more evident to me that Sanders lacks support because he lacks involvement than it seems that Clinton has support because it's more amenable to some mysterious corporate cabal.

politics 内の skribeiv によるリンク Nevada Democratic Party Letter to the Democratic National Committee (PDF Copy)

[–]skribeiv[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I really am just having a hard time understanding this sentiment in the context of party politics. I've seen it a lot this year, but it doesn't seem logically consistent to me.

"Establishment" seems to just be code for "party loyalist"; but the role of a political party is to advance the interests of the party members.

It seems altogether inconsistent to me to believe that a party is somehow operating wrongly by advancing the agendas of those most involved with the party over the agendas of those less affiliated. I just can't wrap my head around it.

For better or for worse, the US has a party-based political system. It certainly has its issues, but it's what we've got. Thus, it seems somewhat disingenuous to criticize a party for operating...as a party.

Sanders is, by basically every metric, an outsider to the Democratic party. He caucuses with them, sure, but he doesn't fund-raise, he often criticizes their positions, and he's spent a LOT of this campaign trying to paint them as this corrupt organization that's out to get him.

It seems to me that, if we're being more honest, it isn't so much that the Democratic party is out to get Sanders, it's that the Democratic party is throwing its support behind Clinton. But Clinton is the party loyalist, so it seems like that should be expected.

Sanders chose to run as a Democrat, which gave him a lot of exposure and many more resources than he would otherwise have had. But the double-edged sword is that he then had to run as an outsider for a party that has every justified incentive to support his competition.