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Foundation, foundation, foundation (self.reddevils)

AlpacamyLlama が 投稿

Foundation, foundation, foundation. Up there with philosophy, process and ‘as I am saying’ as words or phrases which have become part of the United lexicon since LvG took control.

There are some who feel LvG should be given the final season because he has built a foundation, and with a bit of tweaking, should be good to go. What foundation is there though?

GK

If recent reports are to be believed, the future of DDG rests on whether LvG stays or goes. If LvG stays, De Gea is off to Madrid and we will be left with either Romero or a new recruit in goal. Therefore, the foundation as far as this position goes is reportedly unstable.

DF

One of the successes of the season – the tightest defence in the league since Spurs carried out the controlled explosion of their season at Newcastle. Something strong to build on?

Debatable. The RB position is far from nailed down, with Darmian struggling for form and Valencia, who will be 31 next season, taking the slot. The LB will see Shaw return, who will need to re-integrate into the team after almost a year out. Smalling should retain his position, naturally, but we would expect to see Blind replaced by a natural CB. So we could be starting the season with a vastly different defence to the one that has played the majority of this season.

CM

Carrick is seemingly gone. Schweinsteiger’s legs have seemingly gone. Schneiderlin’s form and confidence has gone. Fellaini should be gone. LvG’s faith in Herrera has long gone. The midfield is a bit lost at sea. I don’t think it’s inconceivable we would need to completely revamp this part of the team, even with the suggestion of Rooney moving back, which seems to work well against minor teams, but not so much against CMs who know what they are doing.

The attacking options don’t fare better either. Consistency has eluded Memphis and Mata, and Lingard surely seems a stop gap. Could we bank on any of these being first team starters at the start of the season? I have strong doubts.

Forwards

Rooney has realised the jig is up, and Rashford threatens to consign him to the past hence his sudden change of heart to move into midfield. Rashford is, of course, a talent. As is Martial. So we have these two options up front, but it probably is the case they need another alongside to guide them through. Relying on Rashford for an entire season will likely prove misguided.

Reserves

But the youth, though? If we have a foundation, it’s there. Fosu-Mensah is now on the scenes, showing great potential if also showing he has a lot to learn. Borthwick-Jackson will prove solid back up at LB, providing he doesn’t want a loan move to ensure his progress isn’t stunted by Shaw’s return. Januazaj, Pereira, Blackett, Wilson, McNair all seem to be hanging on the periphery though and appear to be out of LvG’s plans.

Summary

If we look at the foundation of that team, it’s arguable that only one CB, the LW and S are nailed down, and Shaw should be at LB providing he returns as strongly. GK is under threat, RB needs resolving, we need a new CB, the CM needs an overhaul or vast improvement from those currently in, we need a new RW and a strong striker to work with Rashford.

So why trust all that to a manager there for one season, who has failed to show any reason for this trust within his first two years?

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[–]TrebolationsCantona 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

The midfield is a real concern. If we want to challenge with the best, we need the best.

  • Schneiderlin has been a bit of a letdown but I'll give him the benefit of a doubt.

  • Carrick is done. People always go on about how quality he is and shit but he's had some really bad games this season. The best course of action is to simply let him go.

  • Herrera seems to be crazy overrated, and it's a real shame to admit that. He was at fault for the goal last night and all he seems to be is a high energy guy. He grinds hard but he's not quite setting the world on fire.

  • Mata is a luxury player. He's nowhere near the player we thought we were signing from Chelsea.

  • Fellaini is most likely going to be sold this summer.

  • Schweinsteiger, like Schneiderlin, has been quite underwhelming. His fitness is a major concern and we can't be relying on him like that.

  • Rooney can put in a decent shift against the minnows but he's not an elite CM. Just because he can make a couple of flashy hollywood passes it doesn't mean he's Scholes's successor. The way I see it, he's not anything special in the midfield.

We need a true quality CM such as Kroos but the likelihood of getting such a player is quite low. Renato Sanches could've been a unique option but he's with Bayern now. Hopefully we can give TFM a run in CM and see if he can't be our box-to-box engine of the future, all the while pursuing good options.

[–]azogthorinThere's only one Darren Fletcher 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Assuming we play the 3 in midfield(that we've seen the last few games) next season I think we might need to make two signings there. Someone like Xhaka, who is physical, can defend, and also pass from deep. Sadly, I think Arsenal are going to get him, and I don't know anyone else who would fit that mould. The second signing would need to be a playmaker like Kroos or Pjanic.

Agree with you about Rooney, he still needs to show a lot more there to prove he is an elite CM, but I think he will still start either as a 10, or as a midfielder, cause he is Wayne Fucking Rooney.

Rooney - Xhaka - Kroos

backed up by,

Herrera - Schneiderlin - Basti

with TFM filling in too. I will not be too bothered if we sell Herrera, he is just not good enough for me.

[–]DublinguistSmalling 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

The "expectation" talk is what bugs me the most. Why on earth would best goalkeeper and best under 21 player in the world want to stay at a club that only hopes to get CL football each year? In trying to save his own arse LVG could be damaging our club, it's perverse

[–]majoraLoLMemphis 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

I wanted to create a post about what he means by this but was afraid of it being a 'shitpost' so I'll post it here.

If you look at juventus they went down and under and then rose back to where they belong by doing just this. They invested in young kids kept their core and this brought them the success they have had over the past couple of seasons not to mention their success in the CL.

He's not saying its wrong for Utd fans to want the CL, wanting to win the title or anything like that because in the end that's what he's trying to build. A team that is fit amd ready for later on to add WC stars to for Utd to be great again. Right now that's what he means. He's sayinf to right now expect to win titles isn't gonna cut it.

In my book the only reasom van Gaal should go is the boring ass displays that are shown time and time again. You have this group of players that each in their own way have allot of swag and flair to them. Let the boys play, entertain us.

So all in all. The concept is good, just they way its being played is very very dull.

[–]rugby_fcBeckham 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good point and well made, but we haven't fallen as extremely as Juventus did, we were 4th last year.

I don't think it was by any means unrealistic to aim to win the league this year and fans were right to expect a title challenge. The only reason it seems rational to not expect to be challenging is because that this season was a regression from the last, which was LVG's doing anyway.

It can be argued that the way to go is with some young players now and build to compete again later, but on the flip side settling to not be in the title race for a few more years could easily be a slippery slide to mediocrity hanging around 4th-7th becoming like Liverpool have been.

[–]azogthorinThere's only one Darren Fletcher 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

People seem to forget that the likes of Bayern, Real, and Juve all went through similar transitional periods inside the last decade. Bayern and Juve were playing in the Europa League not too long ago, and they have risen and are now the best teams in Europe.

[–]TrebolationsCantona 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the main gripe people have with the whole 'unrealistic' debacle is because of how absurd this season has been. We look at Leicester, who many predicted to be caught up in another relegation dogfight, defy all the odds and win the league comfortably. People look at them and wonder why we couldn't have at least finished top 4 in a season where the big teams massively underwhelmed. Added with the fact that in his first press conference, LVG stated year 1 was top 4, year 2 was competing for the PL and year 3 was competing for the UCL, then he turns around and says "you know what, your expectations were too high". It's bound to grind gears.

[–]cookie1254Rafael 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Our style of play is absolutely shite as well. Any new manager is going to have to make major changes to the way we play as well as the squad if we want to actually win things which is inevitably going to take time. We really don't seem to be much closer to the end of this transition period than when Van Gaal took over.

[–]wdtpw 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not sure "foundation" means individual players so much as the team as a whole playing fully trained in a particular style.

I think if you sat LVG down and asked him to explain his comments about "expectations," he would say something about the injuries derailing this season's plans, and that if you take only our results since Christmas we'd have won the league.

I also think as far as Mourinho is concerned, LVG appears to be a better human being. Mourinho is supposed to be his friend, but he and his aides have spent the season undermining him and presenting themselves as the alternative.

I don't think it matters, because I think he'll be gone after the cup final, but I also think that if he stayed we'd be challenging for the title next season in any case.

[–]AlpacamyLlama[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I also think as far as Mourinho is concerned, LVG appears to be a better human being.

Even his defenders would regard him as arrogant and authoritarian.

I understand the idea of the playing style, and I think it simply isn't there. I can think of one game where I thought - that is the style LvG is clearly trying to implement, and that was Chelsea away last season where we lost 1-0.

The remaining games, even the good ones, are nothing another manager wouldn't have done.

[–]Rolling_TomassiShaw 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I want Mourinho over LvG but I think you have to recognise that Mourinho is a twat. Much more so than LvG. LvG is arrogant but respectful to others. Mourinho has shown a lack of respect to his staff, his players and other managers. He gouged a man's eye, for god's sake.

It is without a doubt that Mourinho is a wanker.

That's not a deal breaker for me, though. After all we the likes of Giggs and Keane are two of my favourite players and they've been twats off and on the pitch, respectively (and probably the other way round too but I won't delve that deep).

[–]osorojotx 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Midfield is the biggest issue for me. We need quality and depth.

[–]UnitedFaxMachine 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

LVG's foundation is more fictional than the Asimov saga. A myth, nothing more.

[–]Rajvirnagi 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I see a large issue in midfield. Schneiderlin and Rooney are good enough but a real box to box, physical midfielder is needed, someone with a bit of pace and stamina, like milner for pool or kante for Leicester. These are hard workers who aren't the flashiest or classiest players but play for the badge and get the job done. The defence has been solid, makeshift yet still solid and I would put that de gea rumour down, there's no way he's that immature. Rashford and Martial are both brilliant, yet the team is lacking in dedicated wingers. What's most important in my opinion tho is just a bit of steel, someone willing to do the dirty work. It's a midfield full of watchers and egos, bar Rooney I don't see players putting in their full 100.

[–]TheGoldenHawk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In defence of Schneiderlin I think he's someone that can still grow into that midfield role we need. CM/DM is a position that takes some adjusting when you move to a new team, remember how underwhelming Carrick was in his first few seasons? Schneiderlin has been a little inconsistent but as far as first seasons go I was very pleased with how he did. I honestly think he'll improve a lot more as he gets more comfortable in the team.

Going forward I think having Rooney/Schweinsteiger as the ball playing, composed midfielder and Schneiderlin/Fellaini as the workhorse, box-to-box player could be a pretty strong partnership for us going forward.

Edit: Possible solution for the future I'd love to see: playing TFM in midfield with Rooney as he gets older. Timothy looks like one hell of an athlete and Sir Alex used to do something very similar with Giggs and Phil Jones. Jones would provide all the defensive cover and running for Giggs and it was extremely effective even against teams like Real Madrid.