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Obsession with STEM? (self.TheBluePill)

Mushroom_Godso alpha I'm falafel が 投稿

I did my masters degree in mathematics, and I teach now, so I'm in that segment of the population that is more biased than most to see the sciences and mathematics as a force for good. But why the tunnel vision with terpers?

Is this tied in to the mindset that conceives of the lack of sex as an engineering problem, one can that can be overcome if only we think hard enough; if only we collectively approach it as an experiment and log our findings in the Great Laboratory Handbook we call the manosphere? While I much value the concept of conjecture and criticism as the driving force behind science, I think we can all agree that there isn't very much of the latter going on in TRP circles. The leaders do conjecture certain propositions (such as "AF/BB" which, despite it's crudeness, is in fact a falsifiable proposition about the behaviour of a subset of the population, which makes it a good proposition, logically at least). But the step of criticism seems to have been replaced by nothing but loud, rapturous agreement and applause. This could more accurately be described as conjecture and congratulation.

I teach maths to pay my rent, and even I can acknowledge the immeasurable value in music, art, literature, politics, philosophy, economics, and history. And yet an entire community agrees upon the notion that these subjects are somehow lesser than their scientific counterparts. Does anyone care to explain this?

(By the way, to the TRP leadership that says "STEM is hard" — I can confirm that it's not hard; it's just that you're not alpha enough.)

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[–]Kimmalah 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

My guess (and this is purely a guess) is that a lot of these people feel most comfortable with anything that has a clear-cut right or wrong answer rather than stuff like the humanities where you tend to deal with things that can be more nebulous and not necessarily right or wrong. Things like math problems have one clear answer, questions of philosophy or art criticism does not and that seems to unnerve some people.

I also feel like there's a tendency in our society to stereotype things like math, science and anything logical as "masculine" and things like music, literature, art, etc. as emotional and more feminine (which also tends to mean it's devalued). And by extension TRPers see anything masculine as automatically good/right, anything feminine as bad/wrong.

But that's just my feeemale take on it.

[–]NeitherXsNorYsGenderqueer (disregard opinions) 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

What gets to me, as someone who studies and teaches pure maths as a postdoc, is this layman impression of maths as this clear-cut entity of right and wrong. It isn't, the sort of mathematics most terpers would encounter is because they're encountering simple forms of applied mathematics.

That doesn't mean it isn't a search for objective truths but that is also true, in part, of philosophy which can get very muddied by difficult arguments and seemingly insurmountable challenges. Reddit seems to have this curse, one that has led to subs like /r/badphilosophy, that many people have becoming so wrapped up in a certain way of pursuing truth (a kind of crude reverence for the empirical method) that anything falling outside they can't won't accept as being objective. Terpers are among the worst for this.

It all stems, I think, from an inability or lack of desire to recognise and question their philosophical assumptions. One irony of it is that the objectivity the empirical sciences is far more tenuous than any terper realises.

[–]foreignergrl 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

...the sort of mathematics most terpers would encounter is because they're encountering simple forms of applied mathematics.

I just wish I could upvote you 1000 times. True story: I changed my major (and basically my whole life) when I slightly suspected this. I'm happy someone in the field confirmed my suspicions, and I'm happy to never have to deal with math ever again. You see, as a girl, I can't logic.

[–]PorterDaughterenters discussions vagina-first 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Simple - there is a large gap between men and women in STEM subjects, skewed toward men, unlike most other academic subjects- which have a slight skew toward women (or girls, in case of basic education).

So you'd often see terpers whine and complain about how the education system is "feminized" (how else would you explain the fact girls tend to be more successful in shcool than boys??? SYSTEM BIAS which clearly doesn't exist when there's a skew for men) and the other subjects are also "feminine" and therefore "unnecessary" - if women are good at something, it's not important or worth caring about.

[–]lady_cup 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I really think this is the explanation. I also suspect there's more actual STEM people in this sub than in TRP.

As a side note, I recently got banned from /r/The_Donald ("for being a sjw") because I pointed out that there's people in STEM actually quantifying discrimination of women in the labor market (including using randomized trials). My arguments were met with a youtube clip with some incoherent MGTOW dude.

A lot of these guys wanna be STEM, but I wonder how many of them actually are.

[–]Gunlord5002alfalfa4me 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

This question gets asked around here a lot, and it's a good one, really. In addition to the reasons folks have already described, one also has to remember that TRP takes an extremely mercenary view of human worth, where the main goal in life is to make as much money as possible and everything else is just a distraction. Since they believe STEM subjects make more money than other ones, it follows that they'd worship STEM. Of course, actual STEM folks such as yourselves can easily discern why that sort of thinking is so hollow.

[–]Liturgy_Loon 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

1) STEM jobs are well payed and these people are obsessed with having high social status or more precisely their infantile idea of what being a high status male is.

2) They love the nebulous idea of "hard science" because they think it tangentially confirms their weird, fundamentally retarded bio-truff world view (it doesn't)

3) Because there has always existed a certain species of petty, small-souled middle class person who fundamentally despises art and literature. Many manospherians fit into this category.

[–]OmLiLiMale Alpha Dog 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You should put this into Cosmopolitan Magazine form so the females of this subreddit can read it.

You see STEM is the superior one truth of the world, females are incapable of understanding and only suck Alpha Male Phalluses to get into the field.

Once they are in, they use the scientific method to help them divorce men and 80/20 mathematics to help them find Alphas.

[–]bunker_man 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

But why the tunnel vision with terpers?

I thought a lot of them think that in many cases stem is for betas who won't get laid til 30, and alphas should be in business school? At any rate, liking stem, and disliking anything outside of it isn't something unique to trp. They're obsessed with status, and think that's where the money is. But also think more than most that anything outside of those is suspect. People in general tend to mistrust soft sciences that they see as having any slant but their own. And just about every slant isn't that of trp. Since something like science at least in theory is value-less, they don't see it as something to be opposed to.

[–]dangerine_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's because STEM is an elite club. But there's a reason construction workers and trades people typically hate the damn engineers; because they're willfully ignorant about how things are actually made, and because "FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS NOW" even if there's an easier way.

And I say this as a guy who works in an engineering department. But I'd rather ask the machinist how he wants to make a part rather than to tell a guy with 30 years experience how to do his job. Probably because I'm beta tho.

Also because wymn are too dumb to math.

[–]TatdGreaser 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's why I got my degree in engineering technology. Most of the guys in the course had previously done manual labor at some point. However a lot of companies refuse to recognize the degree.

[–]dangerine_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm an engineering tech as well - i know people from my graduating class have had no trouble finding work, but the field definitely caps pay fairly early, so if you want to make big bucks you've got to expand your expertise (technical sales, project management, specialized trade).

[–]TatdGreaser 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I had the great pleasure of graduating right before the economy nose-dived. Not having experience in an actual engineer role hurt me a lot.

Funny you say that I'm actually waiting on word for a project management job! I think I'm way more suited for that rather than design. I love working with the guys out in the field.

[–]cytomet 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I used to think STEM was better than the humanities, mostly because it needed more "work". Like lab experiments, tinkering with stuff, writing code and testing it... whereas for things like literature you just needed to bullshit well enough to get people to agree with you. And sometimes you don't even need to do it well (the Sokal affair comes to mind). Less mental effort, maybe?

Now though, I've started to notice a lot of the skills you need to do well in the humanities and STEM overlap, e.g. critical thinking and considering the effects of several different factors on a situation, because sometimes your experiments just turn out weird/your code doesn't work and you have no idea why.

Besides, it's not like the STEM fields are completely free of bullshit either.

[–]TatdGreaser 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They believe the entire world is run on reasoning with zero emotions. They believe women cannot think rationally and are controlled by their emotions. Since rational thinking runs the world, they are Gods. Usually they suck at their jobs too.

[–]heyzo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They were nerds in high school who resented the feeemale students for not giving them attention. And they never really grew out of that phase.