4531
4532

It reduces overhead... It's simple capitalism (imgflip.com)

JoeyFingaz01 が 投稿

上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Bad_Spellar 1702ポイント1703ポイント  (120子コメント)

It increases overhead. It decreases operating expenses.

[–]SouthpawMox 589ポイント590ポイント  (34子コメント)

The wonderful folks at r/accounting applaud your comment

[–]Byaaah 132ポイント133ポイント  (11子コメント)

God that sounds nerdy

[–]vishtratwork 17ポイント18ポイント  (13子コメント)

It's a quality sub

[–]willyboxc 3ポイント4ポイント  (12子コメント)

Subway will probably eventually become an automated robot making your sandwich as well. I remember them talking about having people in India take your orders remotely at McDonald's. This new technology isn't something to fear, the jobs it takes away will free those people up for potentially higher paying jobs, hopefully those people can get access to cheap or affordable education it would be nice though to be able to give them an iPad and course work to complete to get a small degree in a technical field. We are going to need more healthcare providers as we have an aging population. I for one welcome our robot overlords as long as they can get my order right the first time and perfect center a bun with the ingredients that's the one thing that always got to me about fast food, please please place everything centered so it doesn't fall out first bite.

[–]Mortifier 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

Bravo

コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

    [–]flyersfan314 13ポイント14ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Could you explain to me the difference? Overhead is fixed costs and expenses fluctuate?

    [–]RumAndGunsAndRum 34ポイント35ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Overhead represents costs that aren't tied directly to direct labor, direct materials, or, more generally, can't be directly tied to operations that generate revenue. Rent is the usual example - even if a Wendy's had zero customers, and thus generated zero revenue, the land it was renting (for this example, anyway) for its store would still need to be paid for.

    The move towards automation here will reduce the ongoing direct labor cost of a given facility to zero (assuming literally everything in that facility is automated, including the food-making process), and transfer that into the increased electricity cost to operate the machines - which, given that utilities (including electric utilities) are generally covered under the umbrella of overhead, means that overhead increases.

    [–]_REDSTOOL_ 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Not to mention the amortization on the equipment and the necessary repairs to the equipment.

    [–]sohetellsme 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Food for thought:

    you depreciate machinery and equipment and buildings.

    you amortize intangible assets (IP, Goodwill, customer lists), interest on bonds, and loans.

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      [–]thirteensecnds 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Except the main problem with this is the labor you will have to spend on specialist technicians to service said machines. The cost on labor may be lower at times but others you are going to have an enormous labor expense.

      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

        [–]klingma 17ポイント18ポイント  (11子コメント)

        Its also going to increase their depreciation expense.

        [–]boundbylife 9ポイント10ポイント  (10子コメント)

        Most tax law allows for claiming depreciation against your earnings, don't they?

        [–]klingma 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Well yeah you can but it can get a bit tricky. They will be able to depreciate it yearly. But they were to sell the building with the automated order equipment then they would have to recapture the depreciation. Plus there are limits on how long the item can be depreciated.

        [–]banmenow 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

        It's optional, so unless you're in a loss or something similar, you will take the deduction. In tax the depreciation rates are fixed, whereas in accounting you have some flexibility on the method and rates you use.

        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

          [–]glaird25 101ポイント102ポイント  (21子コメント)

          Unsurprisingly OP doesn't know what he's talking about. Who'd have thought that?

          [–]SnausageFest 83ポイント84ポイント  (14子コメント)

          Using the term overhead wrong doesn't mean his point is wrong though. Most people use it wrong as is, like a catch all term for every business expense. Most people never actually learn basic accounting.

          [–]BioshockEndingD00D 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Yeah but every middle schooler should understand his 'point.'

          [–]glaird25 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I get that but it's just another example of redditors pretending to be incredibly knowledgeable about everything. Everyone on Reddit sounds so smart until they discuss something you actually know about.

          コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)

            [–]nal1200 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

            Who'd have*

            [–]sicayou 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Who knew accounting would help me see a mistake on reddit.

            [–]F_H_Rileys_MaitreD 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

            This whole idea of demanding a bump to $15 for a "McCareer" made automation more the imperative. I'm a 70's kid and the kids from my generation realized that fast food jobs were meant to be an introduction to the workforce or a supplemental income for retirees. No one expected to raise 3 kids at a fryer.

            [–]Survove 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Thank you! I wanted to say the same thing.

            コメントをもっと表示する (37 返事)

              [–]Karfedix_of_Pain 242ポイント243ポイント  (129子コメント)

              Technology has been reducing the work needed to get shit done since the dawn of time... Automation is just the latest flavor.

              Automation will replace jobs. Any jobs. All jobs. Just as soon as it becomes economically feasible. Maybe that $15/hour minimum wage killed off some jobs slightly sooner than was anticipated, but it was going to happen anyway.

              And it isn't like this is somehow limited to your low-skill positions like flipping burgers at McDonald's...

              I work in IT, and we haven't yet managed to build a robot to do my job. But modern technology has made it possible for me to do my job without physically stepping foot inside the building. This means that where my employer might've previously needed to hire a dozen people to provide a physical presence within each building, I'm now able to take care of those dozen buildings from the comfort of my own home. And, furthermore, some guy in India could probably do the same thing even cheaper than I can.

              [–]InfamousMike 47ポイント48ポイント  (98子コメント)

              I think that's why it's important to pick up computing skills.

              Until the point where robots can programs themselves (I don't think we will allow that step), there will always be needs of programmers and technicians. As soon as Google perfected the driverless car, all taxi divers will be replaced. This is what Uber is aiming to do as end goal.

              All low skill jobs will be automated.

              [–]nonstickpotts 18ポイント19ポイント  (70子コメント)

              If everything is automated and computers can even program themselves, then what will people do for money? There will be a few people that own businesses that can make products with no employees, but who would be able to buy those products or services?

              [–]makeshiftpatriot 60ポイント61ポイント  (56子コメント)

              This is why it's important now that we as a society contemplate the idea of a basic income.

              [–]ThatNoise[🍰] 20ポイント21ポイント  (50子コメント)

              I've read several times people mention a basic income but no one knowledgeable enough to explain how it is sustainable. To me Its literally the opposite of taxing your citizens and seems very analogous to a socialist economy. So who funds such a system of everyone is receiving this money from the government and most jobs are automated?

              [–]farekrow 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              A tax on automation would do the trick.

              [–]Flowah 17ポイント18ポイント  (16子コメント)

              So who funds such a system of everyone is receiving this money from the government and most jobs are automated?

              Who funds social programs right now? Basically everyone. Where does the money come from, really? People aren't generating the money, it's already there. They just earned it by creating value to something and were compensated by being given money.

              Automation will create enormous value. There will just be no one to give money to for "earning" it. I guess you could pay the owners of the machines and computers but that would go south very fast. If you thought wealth and income inequality was bad now imagine when it's 1000x worse.

              Here is the basic realization you need to come to. Money is just a way of assigning value and encouraging rationing. You have a limited amount of money which forces you to make decisions on what you consume, not just in terms of food but products and services. That's good. We can't survive if everyone takes everything they want. But once you divorce money from the concept of being "earned" and make it just a tool by which we assign value and force consumption decisions, it's easy to see why we could just give people money.

              Really the question you should be asking is how it's sustainable to not have basic income. If 50% of jobs are automated and 50% of people have no income, how is that sustainable? Capitalism and production 100% relies upon having consumers. If they have no money they can't buy your shit.

              Plus, realistically, we're looking at way more than 50%. We're making big strides in automation. You could probably already automate most fast food places, grocery stores, pharmacies. Basically anything with a checkout line. You don't need 10 people now you just need 1-2 supervisors for the self-checkouts. Anything related to vehicles will be done in 15-40 years depending on government. Self-driving cars are a reality. It's just a matter of time. And our AI is getting better every day. AlphaGo displayed a kind of learning. It can teach itself if you feed it data. There was a post a few days ago about some automated traffic ticket disputer. New lawyers used to cut their teeth and rack up billable hours through discovery. Machine discovery is already starting to trim those numbers. We're not talking just about low education jobs anymore. It's coming for basically all of us.

              When that happens, how does society survive with 75%+ unemployed? You've got 3 options.

              1. Bloody revolution by the unemployed and desperate
              2. A culling by the people who still have wealth.
              3. Basic income.

              [–]phpdevster 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

              But here's something I still don't understand about basic income: how will that simply not become the poverty line? Right now, I can go off and earn a decent salary, and have my choice of house, car, location, etc.

              If there is literally no paid work available, and basic income is $X, then $X becomes the absolute lowest common denominator income. How do you outbid on say, a house, if everyone else has the same income (or likely, more depending on number of kids?). How do you afford a nicer house if there's no work?

              I'm having trouble seeing a future beyond everyone living like sardines in tiny apartments owned by wealthy land owners.

              コメントをもっと表示する (14 返事)

                [–]InfamousMike 6ポイント7ポイント  (17子コメント)

                The money is suppose to come from the redundancy in our welfare program. Because basic income is suppose to be enough to provide basic 3meals a day and simple shelter, all welfare programs will be cut.

                And since its meant to be just enough for food and shelter, the people are not meant to be able to have a substantial saving from it. So the money will go to the people, people will pay for rent and food, which will pay tax(we will also expect tax rate to increase to sustain this) and the cycle continues.

                One of the increased tax will be on income. An argument would be "won't it cause lazy people to stay at home and do nothing?" And yes, it will. However, as human nature, not all of us can be couch potatos. We all need some kind of goal to work towards. For example, if you want to travel the world, with basic income, you won't be able to do this. So you will still need a job for travels /luxury goods. That will be your motivation factor. If you want the newest iPhone? Get a job. You want to live in a bigger house? Get a job. You want more food? Get a job.

                A benefit of basic income is that it suppose to free people from obligations to make enough just to sustain. People won't be trap because they're too busy at a job instead of getting more education (under basic income, education would be free or nearly free) to a job the people wish to have a career in.

                It's a nice concept, but it has a lot of flaws that needs to be ironed out. No one is going to like the tax increase. That's likely the biggest obstacle to basic income. But you are correct, financially being able to sustain such program is being research on atm.

                [–]humblyawsome 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

                Good explanation, but there's another huge flaw; voters. Basic income only works if -as you described- there's not enough money to have luxuries.

                However, politicians like to promise more benefits to voters. Voters living on basic income might decide they should be able to buy some nice things... This is what Marx said would be the end of capitalism: Peroole would vote for lower taxes and more benefits until the nation couldn't sustain its debts. I see basic income as having the same flaws assuming a high enough % of voters were using it

                [–]PM_me_your_fistbump 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

                The hitch is this: let's say the basic income is $2800 per month. That really is enough to provide food and shelter and clothing, just like you said. Let's also say that in order to provide your food, shelter, clothing, and the supplies you need to become a world-class bandersnatch collector (imaginary life goal) will require only $3000 per month.

                You go out looking for jobs, and find one! It pays $3000 per month, and you only have to work 40 hours a week.

                So now you're working 40 hours a week for an increase of only $200 a month, or $5 an hour. Nobody wants to work for $5 an hour.

                [–]butchering_bird 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                If I understand correctly, everybody gets the basic income, regardless if they work or not. So everything you earn is yours, eliminated the disincentive to work that most (all) welfare systems have where getting a job cuts benefits and some jobs pay less than welfare. It also gets rid of an incentive to work under the table/off the books/black market.

                [–]PM_me_your_fistbump 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                That's weird, and not how I understood it at all. So the top 50% of the population pay in taxes equivalent to several basic incomes, and then get theirs back?

                [–]InfamousMike 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                I'm not sure if I understand your example.

                With basic income, it's income that everyone gets whether you have a job or not. If you find a job that pays $3000 a month, then your monthly income will be $2800 + $3000 = $5800

                Or if you feel that with $3000 a month, you can life a happy and satisfied life in your own standards. Then you go find a job that will pay you $200 a month, likely a part time so you only do a few shifts a week.

                But there will be income tax, very high income tax or this won't be able to sustain itself.

                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                    [–]Soltan_Gris 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Who buys the Wendys if everyone's job has been automated?

                    [–]Detective_Hacc 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    Look up how society works in Star Trek.

                    It's basiclly the "Utopia" version of how this type of system could work under the best-case-scenario. (As in, there's no way it goes that smoothly right off the bat.)

                    [–]ThatNoise[🍰] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    I watch a ton of star trek and they do not use a basic income. Currency is flat out gone in the show. Let's not forget its a fiction and we are nowhere near such a society. This isn't really an answer but thanks for trying.

                    [–]Detective_Hacc 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    I'm not saying it' an answer.

                    I'm just giving an example of a working system where employment isn't the end-all-be-all. I understand it is fiction, but, as a supporter of capitalism, I'm kind of scared of what might happen when our tech reaches the point of fidelity needed to eliminate most labor.

                    コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

                      [–]crabber338 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      A nice dream, but we already see the outcome of all the automation and efficiency today. We'd have to change our economy from growth to sustainable, and I just think the people making loads of profit would rather keep things the way they are.

                      コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                        [–]blowjobjesus 17ポイント18ポイント  (4子コメント)

                        They will do what you do and suck cock for cash

                        [–]jetztf 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        And then we will complain about the cock sucking robots stealing our jobs.

                        コメントをもっと表示する (8 返事)

                          [–]TheIcelander 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          No, the last thing to be automated will be creativity. So specialize in making dank memes.

                          [–]assassinace 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          We're already allowing computers to program themselves. Branches of organic computing, machine learning, and ai all touch on that. We're just not very good at creating programs that can teach or edit themselves very well yet.

                          コメントをもっと表示する (25 返事)

                            [–]occupythekitchen 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

                            They don't have machines to cook yet and they'll need people to cook and serve. So instead of having 20 employees that need a double income to survive they'll have 10 employees needing one income to survive. The horror of 15/hr wage

                            [–]Seen_Unseen 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            And let's not forget cleaning up the place, getting the plates back and such. Anyone who says raising minimum wage doesn't come at a cost doesn't understand basic economics. Unfortunately reducing jobs is a trend from top to bottom though it happens that those at the bottom are frequently easier to be replaced.

                            A neat one is pilots who will be replaced eventually as well as soon as we can accept planes without pilots. Just like the drones the army uses, there is little reason then a sense of comfort to have a pilot on a plane. Actually planes could be even designed more efficient without pilots due to more freedom in modeling the noose of the plane.

                            Anyways interesting times see how we will be overtaken eventually.

                            [–]completewildcard 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Self flying planes are going to be fun. The first time a plane-brain malfunctions and sends it smashing into the side of a mountain, everyone will be screaming that ground control will need the ability to take control and make corrections in some global network.

                            Then a generation later, that global network will get hacked and some bored 14 year old, or some jihadi or whatever, will send 12 planes crashing into the sides of mountains and people will clamor for planes to be isolated from the network and totally self piloted.

                            Lather, rinse, repeat.

                            コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                              [–]noodhoog 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Obligatory Humans Need Not Apply link

                              コメントをもっと表示する (19 返事)

                                [–]Yossi25 126ポイント127ポイント  (51子コメント)

                                A machine won't file a workers comp claim. A machine won't file an unemployment claim. A machine doesn't need to be paid sick leave. A machine doesn't need to be paid overtime. A machine doesn't have sex with a coworker creating drama. A machine is going to happen.

                                [–]Doriphor 28ポイント29ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                A machine can work 24/7, a machine doesn't get paid, a machine doesn't need rest (mostly) etc.

                                [–]Judean_peoplesfront 19ポイント20ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                A machine doesn't need to be trained for a month before it can do it's job, a machine doesn't make mistakes (assuming it's programmed right), a machine's car never breaks down on the way to work forcing you to call another machine and get them to come in on their day off (which machines don't take) which throws your entire roster out of whack for the next fortnight, a machine doesn't need to be paid extra in order to save for it's eventual retirement (well, it doesn't need to be paid at all so... yeah)

                                [–]rightfulemperor 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                First they came for the cashiers, and I said nothing because I am not a cashier.

                                [–]ButtSmegma 14ポイント15ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                A machine's retirement is being unplugged and either recycled or destroyed

                                [–]humansdotget_i 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                A machine won't pull it out at the end and make you cum on its tits. A machine will swallow every drop. A machine will do butt stuff with you every night.

                                コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                  [–]filthy_harold 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  But machines break down and have maintenance costs associate with them. The tech is getting cheaper but hiring a robot repair guy to come in when the automatic burger flipper shits the bed is going to cost the same regardless of what year it is (until we have automatic machine repairmen).

                                  [–]lechuck333 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  machine doesn't make mistakes

                                  Perhaps, but the people using them do. I couldn't tell you how many hours of my life have been wasted waiting for some idiot to figure out how to use the self scanners at Wal Mart.

                                  コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                    [–]Jacob_wallace 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Machines get "paid" in maintenance/power.

                                    [–]voteferpedro 18ポイント19ポイント  (25子コメント)

                                    A machine can be compromised remotely. A machine can have zero day exploits. A machine can error out. A machine can get wet. A machine is susceptible to power outages and daylight savings. A machine requires regular maintainence. A machine requires specialized solutions.

                                    [–]Poultrigeist 37ポイント38ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    Machines can have their expense costs amortized over the course of years and depending on the machine, can be tax deductible.

                                    So employing 10 mechanics/robotic techs is easier than employing 150 laborers.

                                    [–]MilmoWK 11ポイント12ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                    but all of those issues already exist, the machine is just facing away from the customer.

                                    [–]chuey_74 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    A machine requires technicians, installers, transportation, field service personnel, sales team, marketing team, factories, engineers....

                                    コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

                                      [–]Not_Joshy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      A machine doesn't have sex with a coworker creating drama.

                                      Not with that attitude it doesn't.

                                      コメントをもっと表示する (8 返事)

                                        [–]Mzsickness 221ポイント222ポイント  (186子コメント)

                                        Yeah, but minimum wage being $15/hr moves their timetable up almost a decade.

                                        Those machines those people push their fingers on for $8.50/hr cost about $5,000 a piece and the software costs over $50,000 per license per store. And that's ignoring the installation costs of $10,000 a store.

                                        Restaurant I worked at shelled out $80,000 for their 2 POS stations. And that was so waitstaff had easier time ringing in tickets for the kitchen.

                                        [–]MilmoWK 126ポイント127ポイント  (32子コメント)

                                        right. it's like nobody in this entire thread knows what ROI is.

                                        [–]Mzsickness 42ポイント43ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        Yeah, it's only a matter of time before it happened, but wage increases also increase adaptation to new tech in this scenario.

                                        [–]elreina 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Business is not Reddit's strong suit...

                                        The reality of course is that a large number of projects are constantly jockeying for the top few slots. These are the projects that are currently being implemented at any given company. People like me within the company assess the ROI/PBP of the projects and recommend the priorities. When minimum wage jumps, greatly increasing operating expense, this project moves up into those top few slots for a lot of companies.

                                        [–]Arkhaine_kupo 29ポイント30ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                        Reading through any thread on Reddit anyway related to the economy is soul crushing.

                                        I hope they do not talk with that sort of confidence and self righteousness about heart surgery...

                                        [–]PaulClavet 15ポイント16ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                        Why should they bill me for a procedure that is my human right? They should make the doctors do it for free, or maybe go take the money from my neighbors at gunpoint.

                                        [–]Arkhaine_kupo 17ポイント18ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                        I have actually heard at a university protest in my country (Spain) some students say "We should not pay mortages, some people have more than one house they should let us live there for free". And those are college educated people...

                                        [–]Evergreen_76 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                        Or you could meet with your neighbor and all decide to pool your money so when any one needs medical care everyone is covered?

                                        コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                          コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                                            [–]Falkner09 29ポイント30ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                            wal-mart was pushing those self-checkout lanes years ago, well before the big push for$15 minimum wage.

                                            [–]alaskaj1 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            And sheetz has had the self service order kiosks for as long as I can remember. It's surprising other restaurants didn't adopt a similar system sooner.

                                            [–]notagangsta 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            Pushing? They've had them everywhere for the past four years just from the ones I've personally been to. Grocery stores? They've had them for 10 years in my town.

                                            [–]Falkner09 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            I always loved how when wal-mart first started them, they would often have an employee standing outside the self-checkout lanes, encouraging people to use them. Even asking people in line at a regular lane to go use one. It was pretty sad and ironic.

                                            [–]AGiantDino 13ポイント14ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                            We have them at the new Wendy's in Columbus. So I don't know about them being a decade off.

                                            [–]tyranicalteabagger 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            I'd rather that than make people work to be on food stamps.

                                            [–]jedify 24ポイント25ポイント  (25子コメント)

                                            Self checkout has been happening on large scales for years now. All the new threats and talk about replacing workers is in protest over having to pay a living wage.

                                            If the public was comfortable ordering food from a machine, it would've happened by now.

                                            $50,000 per license per store

                                            Holy shit, they got ripped off. What functionality did that promise??!! Seriously.. we're talking about ordering kiosks, the ability to order a number 5 with no onions. You can literally do it with a tablet and a custom app. Surely wendy's would develop the app themselves, so the tablets are their main investment.

                                            [–]Alikont 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                            a custom app

                                            That's where a price tag comes from.

                                            It's a market with very few buyers that have a lot of money. A wonders of B2B.

                                            [–]Mzsickness 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                            It's all 3rd party contracting done via software companies.

                                            It can be as high as $100,000+ for restaurants that want to customize their system.

                                            You never worked management?

                                            コメントをもっと表示する (13 返事)

                                              [–]Nomorenamesleftgosh 23ポイント24ポイント  (60子コメント)

                                              What pisses me off is that the people that want 15$ an hour now, still cant get my order right on a slow midafternoon

                                              [–]murdermeformysins 9ポイント10ポイント  (53子コメント)

                                              "Someone messed up my hamburger so they deserve to live in extreme poverty"

                                              U sound a bit entitled my man

                                              [–]dsmdylan 62ポイント63ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                              ...he is entitled. Literally, when you pay for a thing, you are entitled to receive that thing. Likewise, when you are paid to do a job you are expected to do that job.

                                              Entitled is expecting more pay without more duties when you can't even fulfill the current duties.

                                              [–]McPuffington 30ポイント31ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                              You sound like the guy that fucks up simple things.

                                              [–]murbe 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                              You can say the same thing and make it sound perfectly reasonable.

                                              "If you don't want to live in extreme (not that american poverty is extreme mind you, look around the world and open your eyes) poverty then learn the basic job skills need to perform an entry level job proficiently."

                                              If I refused to do that, I don't see why I should get anything handed to me.

                                              [–]SockMonkey1128 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              The old "Someone else in the world has it worse than you so you can't complain."

                                              There is also someone out there happier than you, so stop being so happy.

                                              コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                [–]Nomorenamesleftgosh 11ポイント12ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                Whoa there don't add words I never used. This isn't buzzfeed. I'm just saying that maybe working a little bit harder might help them out quite a bit

                                                [–]Evergreen_76 16ポイント17ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                You think working harder will magically make your boss pay you more? Why should he?

                                                [–]rhino369 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                My buddy worked at Wendys in HS. He worked hard. Was a supervisor as soon as HS ended. Then became a store manager. Then got a loan and owns a store. He makes more than I do and I'm a corporate lawyer.

                                                You shouldn't just work hard for no gain, but thinking you should slack off because it doesn't matter will ensure you are still working dead end jobs forever.

                                                [–]j0mbie 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                Flip side: I worked near minimum wage retail for about two and a half years. Always told I was the best worker there, could always be relied on, etc. Given manager's responsibilities for many tasks. Told I would be getting a promotion "any week now" for about two years. Came to find out that I was passed by for several promotions to a different location because my manager wanted to keep me at his store. Quit several weeks later.

                                                My point isn't that corporations are evil or something like that, just that anecdotes aren't always the typical case, and that things can very often not go anywhere just because you worked hard.

                                                [–]ThatsAGeauxTigers 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                For this situation, if your working staff can prove they're more efficient than the machine, they can prove that it makes more economic sense to keep employees at $15 an hour than to automate everything. In general though, the harder you work, the better your chance at a pay raise and promotion.

                                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                  [–]Matthieu101 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                  Working harder to get more pay/benefits is the number one naive trait I see in any and all younger workers.

                                                  I've literally never seen someone who's been in the workforce for longer than five years say that. Because it just isn't true.

                                                  I was horribly taken advantage of at an old job. They kept piling on the responsibilities until finally I was running an entire assisted living for twelve hours a day, five days a week. I did literally every job for those twelve hours. Housekeeping, kitchen duty, passing medications, administrator and manager, nurse, caregiver and laundry.

                                                  All of these jobs netted me just above 10 dollars per hour. All because I worked hard.

                                                  Now this isn't to say you shouldn't work hard at all. I bust my ass these days, but only to a certain point. I'm making over double the money because I demand compensation for any work that goes above and beyond. And the amount of work I actually have to do is a mere fraction of my old job.

                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (12 返事)

                                                    [–]ThatsAGeauxTigers 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    By definition, extreme poverty is making less than $1.25 per day. Minimum wage certainly isn't a living wage but it certainly isn't extreme poverty either.

                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (8 返事)

                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                                                        [–]chakfel 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                        Most fast food restaurants that I've been to have one, mayyyybe two people on the front counter which could be replaced by machines. You need someone still to bag/hand food out. Burger flippers and friers have no tech on the market to replace them yet, or it would have already been on the market. Drive through still needs a person.

                                                        So at best, fast food resturants drop one person from the front counter outside of rush hours.

                                                        But on the flip side, I'm probably going to take my business to the place where I don't get stuck behind the old person who can't figure out where the big mac button is, or the hipster who wants a gluten free bun and can't find the option for it. And those two people are going to both need a human to come tell them they're idiots in the most polite way possible.

                                                        So basically, fast food restaurants will end up dropping a person, maybe two, and then raise prices to cover the rest.

                                                        How do I know this will hold true? Because that's what the places that have already had to raise their pay to $15 an hour for fast food workers have done.

                                                        [–]filthy_harold 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                        Burger King makes grills their patties with an automated machine and then microwaves them when needed. All it would need is a system to feed in frozen patties, store grilled ones for later, then microwave them when orders appear. Patties stack nicely so this wouldn't be a very complicated machine. Fries are very easy to automate. Dump prepacked frozen batches into the frier. Start timer. When timer is over, dump the fries into the bin. Have an opening in the bottom of the bin to dispense the correct size of fries based on weight. There's nothing too complicated in any of these processes that a machine can't do. Factories already do tasks very similar to this. At most you'd need someone to work there to keep an eye on things and to deal with any customers.

                                                        [–]LotusSan 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                        "Fries are very easy to automate. Dump prepacked frozen batches into the frier. Start timer. When timer is over, dump the fries into the bin. Have an opening in the bottom of the bin to dispense the correct size of fries based on weight. "

                                                        If nothing else, french fries will be the downfall of this. French fries (small, McDonald's size ones at least) are NOT easy to automate. McDonald's has a single part of the fry process automated, where it dispenses a single, set amount of fries into a fry bin. But this simple, one step still has constant problems with the machine, with jams requiring it to be cleaned out entirely (This isn't a weekly problem, this can happen once or twice a day with bad luck).

                                                        Along with that, the weight calibrations can often reset themselves, the system can get covered in grease by even the simplest leak or spills, and any fry supplies would have to be fed into the machine by hundreds of pounds just to last a day.

                                                        No, fast food will likely not be automated for decades, especially if french fries remain involved.

                                                        [–]filthy_harold 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        1. Have the freezer feed in supplies to things like the burger maker and the fry station.

                                                        2. A better designed frozen fry dispensing machine would need to be built so that it can run unsupervised for longer periods. McDonald's already has a fully automated restaurant coming out in July so I'm sure they have considered this issue.

                                                        3. Grease and spills aren't an issue if you seal your mechanisms and electronics. Hose everything down with degreaser at the end of the day.

                                                        Obviously nothing would be perfect. Even fully automated factories still have some staff there to monitor and make sure things go smoothly.

                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                          [–]chakfel 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                          So then why haven't these been implemented in other countries and places where the costs of wages are much higher already?

                                                          [–]filthy_harold 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          Probably because the tech hasn't been streamlined enough to create the need for places like Mcdonalds to begin to seriously consider it. If there becomes more demand for things like an automated burger or fry maker, then the prices of these industrial machines will start to drop in price. Nobody wants to be the first guy trying to do it unless they know they can trust their machines to their job with a few failures as possible.

                                                          [–]toastymow 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          Probably because the tech hasn't been streamlined enough to create the need for places like Mcdonalds to begin to seriously consider it.

                                                          This is something people don't understand. McDs is one of the biggest companies in the world, period. When they implement a new item hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of locations all over the world have to do that thing EXACTLY the same way.

                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (45 返事)

                                                              [–]chuey_74 397ポイント398ポイント  (175子コメント)

                                                              Thank you. I hate the whole concept of the "Job Creator" role in politics. You want more jobs, you need to drive demand not hand over money to whiny "Job Creators". If they need more people to keep up with demand they hire, otherwise they won't. If they can get rid of people and make the same or better profit, they will.

                                                              [–]Aetrion 41ポイント42ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                              It's not all one or the other. In the Soviet Union they couldn't even fill the demand for basic groceries and clothes, let alone have any kind of actual selection for people. You can in fact have a system where the incentives to actually run a business are so terrible or non-existent that damn near nothing people want gets produced. Of course you can also have a system where the economy stagnates because too many people can't afford to meaningfully participate in it.

                                                              [–]ClinTrojan 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                              The later is the direction we are headed.

                                                              [–]Aetrion 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Not really, as America is getting poorer the market to offload goods just shifts to Asia which is getting richer. To internationalists there is no loss in extracting the wealth from one country as another builds up the buying power to keep the consumer machine rolling. Since everyone thinks nationalism and protectionism are super evil now it's insanely easy for corporatists to push this.

                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (8 返事)

                                                                [–]Ovedya2011 45ポイント46ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                                The whole idea that government is directly responsible for creating private sector jobs is a fallacy anyway. Every President takes credit for job creation, while all of his detractors criticize him for it.

                                                                [–]Alan_Smithee_ 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                America Works.

                                                                [–]HillTopEconomist 28ポイント29ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                                Agreed, Presidents get far too much credit for when things go well and they get way too much blame when things go great. It's largely timing. Take Clinton in the 1990s. The proliferation of the internet and the dissolution of the Soviet Block was going to lead to an economic boom regardless of who's in office. He gets too much credit. Take Bush in 2008 the economy was going to be screwed due to the regulatory climate of banking that existed starting in the 1980s. He was just in office at the time, and now Obama gets credit for the economy being better when all he really did was not fuck the economy up worse than rock bottom. Presidents get way too much credit and blame.

                                                                [–]newaccount1619 11ポイント12ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                                                It's certainly true that Clinton can't take all of the credit for the booming economy, but the first balanced budget he negotiated with Congress has been credited with bringing down interest rates, sparking economics growth as a result.

                                                                [–]SexyRosaParks 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                The entire boom and bust of the 90's can be blamed on Greenspan and his irrational exuberance.

                                                                [–]ILikeScience3131 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                Care to elaborate on this? I'm not really skeptical, just genuinely curious

                                                                [–]SexyRosaParks 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Sure. Greenspan kept interest rates at an unprecedented low level for an incredibly long time. He was the first Chairman of the Fed to essentially target equity prices and routinely mentioned the behavior of equity markets during his addresses (The Greenspan Put). He put far too much faith into the analysis of stock analysts and completely missed the bubble, instead championing it as a benefit of technological innovation. He praised adjustable rate mortgages and claimed how much money people would have saved if they all switched to ARMs (which is entirely subject to the time period you're referring to). His policy of keeping interest rates too low had a huge factor in the housing bubble and the Great Recession.

                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                      [–]BeneficiaryOtheDoubt 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      In political terms, job creation is usually short hand for, 'created an environment conducive to private sector job creation."

                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                                                                        [–]ArcherofArchet 31ポイント32ポイント  (21子コメント)

                                                                        Yeah, the biggest job creator is a customer base that can pay for the services. If your demand for widgets suddenly increases by 100%, you will be damned sure to increase your widget production. If you get paid more, but your widgets don't go anywhere, you will still lay off people, but pocket the difference. Just because you don't have to pay X taxes, you will still not hire more employees than what you need, because that's just plain bad business sense. Wal-Mart, McDonald's, Target, etc. are not a charitable organization that wants to provide jobs to as many low-skilled workers as possible - they are in it to make as much profit with as little expense as possible. If they can make the whole store operate with only 3 employees, they won't have 5 on staff "just in case." If they need 15 employees on staff because the demand is greater, you bet they will have 15 people on staff - and as soon as demand is down, they will let go everyone who is not essential.

                                                                        Business reality is "cut the fat." If you don't need it, you don't buy it, you don't invest capital in it, you don't hire them, you close it down, you sell it off, you write it off in amortization, you lay them off. A lot of government officials who spent a lifetime in government just don't operate that way. The government doesn't cut the fat, doesn't lay off, and doesn't sell off assets - in fact, there is something behind the saying "the bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy." If you give money to the government, it will want to bloat, because salaries are the easiest way for it to spend that money: the government is not a profit generator. If you give money to a business that is already running lean and efficient, they will thank you very much, and pocket the extra profit, report said extra profit to their investors/shareholders, and everyone is happy.

                                                                        Oh, that a lot of government officials are investors/shareholders (or are related or married to investors/shareholders) in major companies? Now that's just the American flavor to it.

                                                                        [–]Alan_Smithee_ 16ポイント17ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                                                        On some conservative sub, someone was crowing (think pigeon-chessboard) about 'schooling' some pro-Bernie person about minimum wages, benefits and employees close to full time needing welfare, and how companies like Walmart "couldn't afford" to pay a decent wage etc.

                                                                        They choose not to, and pay lobbyists to push that barrow for them, and structure their business accordingly.

                                                                        There are many countries with higher minimum wage and universal healthcare that still have such businesses that are profitable.

                                                                        [–]ArcherofArchet 18ポイント19ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                                        There are many countries with higher minimum wage and universal healthcare that still have such businesses that are profitable.

                                                                        And those countries also offer things like paid medical/maternity/paternity leave, free college (usually with a qualifying competitive entrance exam score), free preschool for every child... and they're still not bankrupt. They also tend to have a lower average overall tax rate than the US on a middle-class family. Oh, and they think it's downright barbaric that American companies are not required to offer any vacation time, and if it is, it's a measly 2 weeks/year. The Leader of the Free World right here, ladies and gentlemen.

                                                                        [–]TheIcelander 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        It's so obviously wrong to other countries that the Dutch use the term "American conditions" to describe massive income inequality.

                                                                        [–]reed311 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                        Workers in those countries also make FAR less than workers in the USA. I don't know why you people bash the most powerful economy in the world as if it was a third world banana republic. I make twice as much doing my job as my counterpart in France. Vacation time doesn't pay bills.

                                                                        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

                                                                        [–]scragar 23ポイント24ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                        You make more, then pay it out in medical insurace, strange taxes that make no sense(seriously who wants to add tax at checkout where you can't see it until you're agreeing to pay?), longer hours (35 hours per week over here, if I work longer I claim it back as holidays and take paid time off some other day), etc. You're not better off, you're just unaware as to how you're being screwed.

                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                                                                            [–]newaccount1619 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                            Seattle's Washington's had the highest minimum wage in the country for some time. Ever since the minimum wage was raised to its current level, Seattle Washington has outpaced the U.S. as a whole for job creation.

                                                                            [–]Sandy88 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                            Do you have a source for statistics regarding this? I have read the opposite but don't want to build an opinion off of an opinion.

                                                                            [–]newaccount1619 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                            Well here's the article I first read about it that mentions many of the important numbers to get you started. Also, I'm going to edit my previous post to reflect it's WA state, not Seattle.

                                                                            http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-03-05/washington-shows-highest-minimum-wage-state-beats-u-s-with-jobs

                                                                            [–]Sandy88 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                            Awesome article I for one am not a supporter of raising the minimum wage but this article shows that the argument is really very complicated but the major conservative talking point really holds no water and that naturally with time wages must increase. Thanks for the link!

                                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                                [–]Z0idberg_MD 75ポイント76ポイント  (67子コメント)

                                                                                Consumer spending drives the economy. If corporate heads make X amount of money through profits, you will barely see any of that money pumped back into the economy. But if the same amount of money were paid to workers, toy would see the vast majority of it pumped into the economy as consumer spending.

                                                                                [–]ArcherofArchet 150ポイント151ポイント  (34子コメント)

                                                                                No matter how much the CEO makes, he still only can wear one pair of pants at a time. Spending habits of people making $1M a year and spending habits of people making $5M a year don't differ a lot. Spending habits of people making $35k a year and those making $70k a year differ vastly - because now you can afford to buy nicer things, go on vacations, spend on entertainment, etc. Despite what some people like to believe, the economy does not trickle down from the top - it's built from the bottom up, like any other structure.

                                                                                [–]-DDD- 24ポイント25ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                so true its crazy to see people arguing that a majority of people should get fucked just because it MIGHT hurt them a little while theyre fucked also but not as much as others its like stockholm syndrome or something

                                                                                [–]MountSwolmore 28ポイント29ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                                                I make over 70k. Medical bills and cost of living still keep me from having a vacation.

                                                                                [–]topdangle 66ポイント67ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                                                True, but if you were making 35k you'd probably be struggling to even pay off rent.

                                                                                [–]gatowman 26ポイント27ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                                Confirmed. I make $33k and live paycheck to paycheck, and the minimum wage increase would not help me one bit.

                                                                                [–]peterkeats 22ポイント23ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                Well, it might. If that's your yearly salary, then under California law you have to make two times minimum wage to be considered exempt from overtime and break periods. With a $15/hr min wage, to be salaried and exempt you'd need to make $62,400 a year.

                                                                                Otherwise you are converted to hourly, which means you have to be compensated for overtime, given paid rest breaks, and given unpaid lunch breaks. If you miss a rest break or meal break then they owe you an extra hour of pay.

                                                                                That's would be in California though. The federal salary exemption would have to be raised to more than it is currently ($23,600/yr) to align with the raised minimum wage. If minimum wage doubles, then expect the exempt salary to also double at least to $47,200.

                                                                                Again, that's just if your employer wanted to keep you at a salary. Otherwise they would convert you to hourly (if you aren't already).

                                                                                [–]TheIcelander 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                under California law you have to make two times minimum wage to be considered exempt from overtime and break periods. With a $15/hr min wage, to be salaried and exempt you'd need to make $62,400 a year.

                                                                                This is a great argument to get people other than those already on minimum wage to support raising the minimum wage.

                                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                                                                  [–]apanthropy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  I make $33k and live paycheck to paycheck, and the minimum wage increase would not help me one bit.

                                                                                  Sure it would, you don't think that the same factors that make your current compensation worth more than the minimum would carry forward with an increase? Or that increased market velocity from people making a living wage would improve economic conditions for everyone including you?

                                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                                                                                        [–]Cake_And_Pi 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                        Don't differ a lot? Look at the difference between a 60 foot boat and a 100 foot boat.

                                                                                        [–]Alderez 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                        "Never buy a boat. Always lease." -- Someone, probably.

                                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

                                                                                          [–]murbe 10ポイント11ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                                                                          vast majo

                                                                                          When a company makes a profit, where does it go? Bonuses, dividends, and reinvestment

                                                                                          Bonuses and dividends go to people, though it skews wealthy, not all who receive are wealthy.

                                                                                          Reinvestment creates jobs.

                                                                                          When wealthy people get money where does it go? The bank What do banks do? Pay interest. How do they pay interest? By investing capital. What do they invest capital in? Mostly loans. What do loans pay for? Houses, cars, boats, planes, and businesses. 4 of those drive demand, the other creates jobs.

                                                                                          The end result of a businesses profit so far is to drive demand and create jobs. And when jobs are created, those employees drive demand further.

                                                                                          IT ALL DRIVES DEMAND

                                                                                          [–]Z0idberg_MD 8ポイント9ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                                                          Companies are raking in billions in profits. They aren't investing billions. Shareholders want profits. They do invest, yes. But the overall economy would be much better of compania paid their employees higher wages as opposed to making above and beyond what they are going to reinvest.

                                                                                          [–]rh1n0man 16ポイント17ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                                                          Companies most certainly are investing billions in the US currently. In 2015 net business investment was valued at about $2.8 trillion! with about 2.2 trillion being nonresidential. In total, investment makes up about 17% of the US economy, significantly less than consumption but about equal with total government spending. In comparison, Corporate profits were about $1.4 trillion, less than half of investment. The rest of your arguments are not worth discussing if you cannot get basic facts correct.

                                                                                          [–]Z0idberg_MD 5ポイント6ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                                                          Don't aggregate data. Use specifics. Also, "investment" isn't "reinvestment".

                                                                                          And it's beside the point: High corporate profits mean that workers can be paid a higher wage. The economy CAN support this, and it will benefit the overall economy far more.

                                                                                          In 2015, WalMart had lower than forecast earnings because consumer demand lagged. This ties in directly to wages. They can "reinvest" all they want, but without consumer demand driving it, it doesn't work.

                                                                                          And don't say we're a production economy, because really, we're not.

                                                                                          [–]rh1n0man 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                                          Don't aggregate data. Use specifics.

                                                                                          I'm not sure what you want. Do you want the breakdown by business/investment type or do you just want more anecdotes purposefully selected towards mature businesses that don't require great new investments like Walmart?

                                                                                          High corporate profits mean that workers can be paid a higher wage

                                                                                          Profits could be devoted towards government revenue, they could be devoted to new investments, they could be devoted to hiring new people, they could offset losses in prior years. There is no real reason raising wages is the most ethical usage of the money.

                                                                                          Also, "investment" isn't "reinvestment"

                                                                                          The distinguishment is fairly meaningless from far enough away. No one outside the boardroom really cares if Walmart is building a new store using last years profits or if instead they issued bonds.

                                                                                          And don't say we're a production economy, because really, we're not.

                                                                                          I didn't. I prefer not to apply labels to national economies as they tend to be useless. GDP breakdowns are so simple that there is no need for them.

                                                                                          [–]Z0idberg_MD 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Let me put this another way: The health of the overall economy only has value if it results in a higher quality of life for everyone. To discuss options of wealth and profits which may help perpetuate and stabilize the upper echelons of the economy shows why so many people see a disconnect between modern capitalism and the common good. The only reason capitalism has been looked at so fondly for the last few hundred years is because it provided the best possible outcomes for the working class. When this no longer seems to be th case, a change is needed towards whatever balance of economics which will do the greatest good for the greatest number. We have record income inequality and a shrinking middle class. This is not the way "the greatest nation on earth" should be operating.

                                                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                                                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                                                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (12 返事)

                                                                                                    [–]stupendousman 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                                    Supply/demand is a complex system.

                                                                                                    Minimum wage increases do increase demand, demand by business owners seeking to stay competitive.

                                                                                                    [–]ReddJudicata 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                    Maybe. That's overly simplistic. It's not clear because there's often a corresponding increase in unemployment or reduction in hours. Run the thought experiment of what happens overall of the minimum wage goes by 1, 5, 10, 20, 50 dollars an hour. It's complex.

                                                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                                                                                      [–]falk225 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                      What you are saying does not apply to this situation though. There is no change in demand, but there will be a change in the number of jobs.

                                                                                                      [–]chuey_74 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                      It actually is the same concept. Business is about making economically responsible decisions for the business. If automation is cheaper and gives the business more profits then you get automation. Politics don't have as much influence here as the media is trying to tell everyone.

                                                                                                      [–]juanito1968 4ポイント5ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                                                                                      That is way to logical.

                                                                                                      [–]grayskull88 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                                      Yep. Every time they threaten to raise the minimum wage "don't do that we'll have to fire people". If you could have layed some people off and still kept the business running, you would have already.

                                                                                                      [–]percykins 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                      Weeeeeeell... it's not quite as simple as all that. Take a fast food restaurant chain. Let's say it has 100 locations. The profit of each location will vary widely, but in general they should all be profitable (or at least the business believes they will be profitable at some point).

                                                                                                      Now, if you crank up the minimum wage, the locations which are less profitable will no longer be profitable, and the business will close them down, laying off the workers.

                                                                                                      In general, forcing a salary increase will force a reevaluation of the general value proposition for all employees. Now, that having been said, there's macroeconomic principles at work too here, like the velocity of money increasing.

                                                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                                                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (19 返事)

                                                                                                          [–]trustworthysauce 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                          I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to, and I get the point you're making, but that logic goes both ways.

                                                                                                          If it were more expensive to develop and maintain automated ordering than to pay minimum wage employees, then 'simple capitalism' would dictate that you should continue to employ minimum wage workers. The reason we are trending this way is that technology is getting cheaper, while employees are demanding more money.

                                                                                                          The first tenant of your statement is that it 'reduces overhead' which is directly related to minimum wage. To say that this decision is 'regardless of minimum wage' is a logical fallacy.

                                                                                                          [–]LimeGreenTeknii 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                          OK, as long as minimum wage stayed more than pennies an hour OR as long as technology didn't suddenly skyrocket in price, it was going to happen anyway.

                                                                                                          [–]D14BL0 15ポイント16ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                                                          Isn't that the dream, though? That eventually all menial tasks would be replaced by machines, so that humans don't have to?

                                                                                                          [–]ruiner8850 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                          That depends entirely on how average people are able to purchase things. Yes, there were still jobs for everyone or we have something like a basic income that would be great, but if there ends up being mass unemployment and poverty because very few people have the means to live a decent life, then that's obviously a horrible thing.

                                                                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                                                                                                            [–]bryanpcox 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                            very likely, but the push for wage increase is going to expedite it before we have a plan to help with the transition, which could have a pretty significant impact on the lower class

                                                                                                            [–]PlacentaSoup 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                            I would gladly see a reduction in min wage jobs to gain the hi tech, better paying, jobs that will be required to design, build, test, code and install the ordering kiosks. I know some of that work will be overseas but a lot of it will be wherever the kiosk gets installed and serviced.

                                                                                                            [–]TheShrinkingGiant 12ポイント13ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                                                                            Who is "They"?

                                                                                                            [–]ExhibitAa 17ポイント18ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                                                                            Fast food places.

                                                                                                            [–]ArcherofArchet 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                                                            And retail, and everything else that provides the kind of minimum wage employment where the only job requirement is a pulse.

                                                                                                            [–]annoyingstranger 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                            The PR team for any company that employs low-wage workers.

                                                                                                            [–]Splice1138 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                            Specifically Wendy's.

                                                                                                            https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4j6rdf/wendys_wants_to_automate_stores_due_to_15hr_wage/

                                                                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                                                              [–]Cindernubblebutt 12ポイント13ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                                                                                              How many grocery stores do you see that have self-service checkouts ONLY?

                                                                                                              Do you think people would shop at a store where they had to be their own check out clerk if another store didn't?

                                                                                                              Capitalism is the market deciding what businesses do.

                                                                                                              We'll only get automated ordering when it doesn't represent a degradation to the customer's experience.

                                                                                                              Accepting automation over humans is basically accepting getting less for the same price.

                                                                                                              [–]Wakarimasen 17ポイント18ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                                                              Welcome to most of central London bud. Every single grocery store has at most 2 actual cashiers and 10 self service machines. Nobody has any quams about it and it reduces queue times drastically.

                                                                                                              [–]rhino369 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                              and it reduces queue times drastically.

                                                                                                              It reduces queue time because they put in a lot of registers. But it doesn't really reduce time spent in line and at the register.

                                                                                                              A good cashier can go as fast as 3-5 of those machines.

                                                                                                              [–]larkin54 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                              No way maybe 2 machines is one cashier but I'll do the work myself if I don't have to interact with a cashier even if it takes longer

                                                                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                                                                                                [–]Clavactis 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                                Robots will eventually be able to pick up items and scan them with precision. Or perhaps just scan the cart and know what is in it.

                                                                                                                Robots are coming to everything eventually. Even the job of fixing the robots will one day be a robots job.

                                                                                                                [–]yousmelllikearainbow 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                Then we can just chill and fuck all day. Until a robot does that too.

                                                                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                                  [–]thegamewarrior 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                  Oh my God, I would love it if I could check myself out at every store. That would be the life! No talking to someone that doesn't want to be there, that is rude and makes pointless comments, that asks me how my day is...

                                                                                                                  [–]standtolose 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                                  How many grocery stores do you see that have self-service checkouts ONLY?

                                                                                                                  Every single Walmart in the Phoenix metro area after 10pm does this. Used to be just after 1am. I'm sure soon it will be 24/7.

                                                                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                                                                                                                    [–]HappyLeprechaun 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                    Red Robin already has a little touch screen at the table that lets you order appetizers and drink refills. I can't imagine it's too much longer until they just have food runners.

                                                                                                                    [–]pm_me_anything_funny 14ポイント15ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                                                                                                    Automation is an inevitable reality, a fact of life. I think people need to accept that they need to always be training themselves for the next job. And not become complacent.

                                                                                                                    It would be nice if there's a government incentive program, which comes up with a list of jobs available but not many qualified individuals available to fill them. So people can go ahead and get training for it. Or a student loan forgiveness program for individuals who earn the required degree and find a job. As long as they're working in the field the government makes the student loan payment.

                                                                                                                    There needs to be a reward system for productive members of the society.

                                                                                                                    [–]xlinkedx 11ポイント12ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                                                                                                    Careers today are not what they were for our parents and they don't seem to understand that. We shouldn't have to live paycheck to paycheck. I literally have to skip meals to make it to my next paycheck. We work too much and aren't paid enough. That is America today

                                                                                                                    [–]pm_me_anything_funny 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                                                    Yes, and our parents didn't have the careers of their fathers similarly our kids aren't going to have the same careers as we do. I'm sorry you're living paycheck to paycheck, I hope you figure out a way to get out of the cycle.

                                                                                                                    You have to understand our competition is always going to increase. We live in one planet where we have children to increase the population and not decrease or control it. There are only limited resources to consume and finite habitable land to live on.

                                                                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

                                                                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                                                                                                                        [–]Akincomer 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Exactly. The auto industry didn't switch to mostly robotic manufacturing because of rising minimum wage cost.

                                                                                                                        [–]Thatsnotwhatthatsfor 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Automation is coming to everything. It will be cheaper faster and better than people - period. The time when humans can compete in anything but the abstract and creativity without some form of augmentation isn't that far off. The amount of change in daily life in this century will match or be more than the last.

                                                                                                                        [–]thistlemitten 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                                        For sure, they just can't make the switch until the quality and reliability are at least equal. They've struggled enough with market share and fucking up that transition could kill them.

                                                                                                                        [–]waterbuffalo750 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Quality and reliability as related to cost. If they have a slightly higher error rate(which I don't think they would), that might be acceptable if it saves enough money. If it has some projected downtime, same deal, that might be acceptable.

                                                                                                                        [–]bardwick 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                        quality and reliability are at least equal

                                                                                                                        If a machine can get the slice of cheese in the middle of my sandwich, I'm sold.

                                                                                                                        [–]GETURHANDOFFMYPENIS 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Already happening here in Australia, and our minimum wage has been at least double the US since forever.

                                                                                                                        [–]Commander_Keef 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Yeah McDonald's have already started doing it in super populated cities in the US idk about outside the US though

                                                                                                                        [–]AmyButIAmaMan 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                        The part I like most is touching the screen after someone went back for their 3rd order of a the big mac. The screen is so smoothe and slick to touch. Especially the area round the cheese bits. Sometimes I drip ketchup on it for the next guy.

                                                                                                                        [–]SuperCoupe 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Wawa has had those for over a decade.

                                                                                                                        Don't start making some bullshit link between kiosks and the minimum wage now.

                                                                                                                        [–]noob766 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                        For those that posted that this will happen to only low skill jobs, I'll just leave this here http://futurism.com/artificially-intelligent-lawyer-ross-hired-first-official-law-firm/

                                                                                                                        [–]Excitable_Centipede 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                        This is absolutely correct.

                                                                                                                        They are using this opportunity to announce so they can get some sympathy and to scare workers in other industries from demanding higher wages.

                                                                                                                        [–]occupythekitchen 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Yep and idiots think raising minimum wage for fast food won't ripple and make other workers earn more. Why would you want to deal with being a paramedic or some other high stress job when you can flip a burger for the same pay?

                                                                                                                        Then there is the debate less people will work, well good remember the 50s when one person working could pay all the bills? Yeah such a freaking tragedy!

                                                                                                                        People want minimum wage to be low to stroke their egos. Now it's not OK to be racist so people become SJW and elitist to get the same stupid high pretending they are better than others due to arbitrary standards

                                                                                                                        [–]caskar 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                                                                        But this gives the wealthy a nice scapegoat to pin the blame on, and the uninformed masses will gobble it down and blame people fighting for a livable wage.

                                                                                                                        [–]Abe_Vigoda 5ポイント6ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Minimum wage shouldn't be mandatory $15.

                                                                                                                        Minimum wage should be state run but federal mandated to provide 10% over what it costs to have a healthy standard of living.

                                                                                                                        Every state or city has different financial climates. Offering $15 an hour in a low income place like Oakland would kill small businesses while cities like San Fran, $15 an hour makes you a member of the working poor.

                                                                                                                        There has to be a fair balance regionally between the upper and lower class.

                                                                                                                        But, on the other end of the spectrum, the wage gap between the rich and poor has to be curtailed and middle class workers need a fucking raise.

                                                                                                                        You look at the wage gap over the last few decades, it's got nothing to do with men or women, it has to do with the rich taking all the profits and shafting the poor and middle class.

                                                                                                                        Outsourcing of all your manufacturing jobs? That's the result of capitalists following capitalist ideology. Companies not wanting to pay their workers a living wage? That's capitalism for you.

                                                                                                                        Capitalists do what capitalism tells them. Unfortunately it's kind of a greedy philosophy that isn't really known for sharing.

                                                                                                                        The only way capitalists give anything up is if you take it from them. You want fair pay, then you and your company has to demand it. If your boss is making like 500x what your minimum wage employees are making, maybe they need to take a pay cut and share the wealth. Same with stockholder cuts.

                                                                                                                        [–]mikeofhyrule 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                                        It does and doesnt. Look at Self Check Out and airport Kiosks. They still have 1-3 people standing at those things to help people who have trouble or questions. So instead taking orders they will be greeters and such

                                                                                                                        [–]Mr_Salty_Peanuts 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Let's give them a reason to expedite the process - minimum wage protestors

                                                                                                                        [–]lessmiserables 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Ah. Another thread reminding me of how hilariously uneducated Reddit is about basic economics.

                                                                                                                        [–]APott 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Yeah, they save money either way, I don't get your point. Minimum wage would just speed up the process

                                                                                                                        [–]Stoutyeoman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                        Without question. If they could autmomate HR and legal they'd do that too.

                                                                                                                        [–]Whole_Cheese 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                        I think in 2016 we really don't need actual people doing a job so easily automated. Many jobs become obsolete as technology or other factors progress and taking orders is so simple. Hopefully upping the minimum wage eliminates other shitty jobs too. More jobs open up as things progress too and I'd rather they get paid for that instead of taking orders all day.

                                                                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (195 返事)