上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 368

[–]rockpaperbird 62ポイント63ポイント  (6子コメント)

Be careful, Erdogan might try to take down Reddit for this submission

[–]Follow_Rabbit 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Erdogen's face is getting red with rage right now! Watch it, he's gonna blow any moment!

[–]BirkanG [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

only thing Erdogan is worried about is, is changing the parliamentary system in Turkey and make it a presidency system.. Getting closer to dictatorship everyday...

[–]littlelegsbabyman [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Hey don't talk about a nato ally like that! They're one of the good guys. /s

[–]Lewisplqbmc 69ポイント70ポイント  (51子コメント)

People are rarely aware of this, aswell as the Holodomor.

Between 1.5 and 7.5 million killed in a single year of man made famine.

[–]blinkingy 39ポイント40ポイント  (17子コメント)

Well, they may not know that name, but everyone knows Stalin killed a lot of people, only topped by Mao. However, Stalin planned for it, Mao was just fucking stupid.

[–]sex_tourism 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lets kill all those pesky birds, what could go wrong.

[–]CuriousBlueAbra 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think Mao was a mix of both. On the one hand, he did say and do a lot of stupid stuff (Chinese people are blank slates, we can make steel in BBQs, birds are the enemy of the proletariat, etc.). But on the other hand, all that stuff was as disastrous for China as it was good for his personal power - the guy thrived in chaos.

[–]natophonic2 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also, all those Chinese landowners and other 'enemies of the proletariat' being taken out in a field and shot in the head was very much planned and orchestrated by Mao.

[–]iconoclaus 20ポイント21ポイント  (18子コメント)

And also the Bengal Famine under British occupation -- starving populations were forced to export their food!

[–]TedTheGreek_Atheos 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what they did to Ireland too. Ireland was growing plenty of food that was being exported while the population starved.

[–]fencerman 8ポイント9ポイント  (14子コメント)

Which was about the same as the great famine in Ireland (though on a much bigger scale in India) - docks were full of grain being sent to the UK while the Irish died in the streets.

The fact that people still pretend the British empire was somehow benevolent is beyond absurd.

[–]BasedAssadOfSyria[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

BUT BUT MUH RAILWAYS!11!1!1!!

[–]SterlingBowman 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, I read a paper on that once, awful stuff. Although the author contended that it was originally a 'natural' famine, but that Stalin deliberately made it worse in order to break the backbone of Ukrainian nationalism. That seemed to be a middle-of-the-road-approach, as Russian historians mostly claim it was 'natural' (may be better to say 'unintended', as Stalinist collectivisation policies weren't very encouraging to farmers), while Ukrainian historians claim that it was completely man made.

[–]eisagi 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Few historians of any kind deny that it wasn't man-made - it happened during collectivization and was a direct result of strict policies towards the peasantry at the time. The question is how much intent there was to kill lots of people. At first glance, it's obvious that exporting grain during famine is murderous. On the other hand, they reversed the policies quickly after they saw how many people were actually dying - the state's argument at the time was that the anti-Soviet peasants were purposefully hoarding grain in secret to rebel against the government.

The bigger controversy nowadays is whether it was genocide i.e. ethnically-targeted killing or just brutal treatment of all peasants. In my family, both Ukrainian and Russian relatives suffered and died due to hunger in 1932-33. Ukrainian nationalists have tried to construct a national myth out of the famine, as something targeted specifically at them. However, the same policies and deaths occurred in the grain-growing regions of Russia as well (something like 25-30% of all deaths were ethnically Russian IIRC). Belarus, which doesn't grow as much crops, was almost entirely spared. Parts of Kazakhstan were also hit.

Furthermore, in the documents of the time, we see Stalin castigating anti-government peasants in justifying the policies, but we don't see anti-Ukrainian ethnic hatred. In the early period under Stalin, Russian nationalism, which was seen as a larger threat, was actually denounced more and Ukrainian (and some other minority) cultures were promoted. Later this was reversed somewhat, but it still never amounted to the targeted hatred of the Ukrainians as a people.

[–]SterlingBowman [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, that's probably a better explanation that what I could give. I like to think I got the gist of it though.

[–]Puskathesecond 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

The thing about the Holocaust is that the nazis did it like they did everything else: efficiently. It was industrial genocide.

[–]silentanthrx -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

nah, the thing is that they lost the war. And the winner can't be the bad guy obviously. Stalin was at least equally effective in his purges and information gathering on this own population.

[–]harry_turtle 176ポイント177ポイント  (159子コメント)

"THAT NEVER HAPPENED!!! STFU!!!"

90% of all Turks

[–]black_brotha 25ポイント26ポイント  (43子コメント)

i dont get why they are so hellbent on denying its existence.

i mean what would it mean in 2016 if they acknowledge it happening?? would the average turk be held responsible for it or something?

[–]Kalarian_Reborn 10ポイント11ポイント  (41子コメント)

All white Americans are still held responsible for slavery in the us. All Japanese are held responsible for dominating China and Korea. So...yeah probably.

[–]Antiochia 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Really? I am Austrian born 1980 and yer noone ever accused me of having gased a jew. I thought the only thing I was responsible for, was to learn from my countries history, what bad things humans in general are capable to do, and not to get myself into the illusion that genocide only can happen in some uncivilised backwater countries.

[–]CornyHoosier 25ポイント26ポイント  (19子コメント)

Held responsible by whom? I've lived in some areas around the U.S. where I was the minority as a white person ... and never once did anyone do anything or say anything to me because of slavery in the U.S.

[–]comanon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Guilt is a personal experience. You don't need input from others to feel guilty. They haven't had time to accept the history, and probably can't separate themselves from their history. It's straight up denial.

[–]Bagginses7319 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've never heard one person mention white Americans now are responsible for slavery and I live in the UK and jump on every opportunity to slag off the US.

[–]tagrav 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

that's because that idea is driven by the white supremacist movement to make weak minded white folk think it's a Us vs Them scenario.

nobody actually holds current white folk in America accountable for shit that happened generations ago.

That's like people blaming current Germans for the Nazi movement and holocaust.

[–]tagrav 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

NO THEY ARE NOT. That's a fucking fallacy driven by a racist agenda against minorities to drive this idea that the world is against the white man.

it's fucking bullshit. nobody holds you fucking accountable for slavery.

that's such a stupid argument.

[–]BodgeJob 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Spot the angsty teenage yankie doodle.

[–]Bebop_and_Rocksteady 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

that must mean that the Africans who sold the Americans slaves are also held responsible? I am a white 28 year old male... please tell me how I am responsible? I wasn't even alive.

[–]GildoFotzo 16ポイント17ポイント  (6子コメント)

I once heard from a turk "it was done by the ottoman empire and not turkey, so wheres the problem?". i said "ok, to compare: the holocaust was done by the third reich, so wheres the problem"?

[–]CornyHoosier 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

To be fair, I don't blame or consider any current Germans for what the Nazis did.

[–]jimythetulip 33ポイント34ポイント  (2子コメント)

Of course not. But you won't find any current Germans denying what the Nazis did. Denial is an integral part of Genocide. Scholars have determined it as being the final stage of Genocide. http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/8stagesofgenocide.html . Some believe that the current Turks or anyone who denies a genocide while being faced with direct and irrefutable evidence, is participating in it by covering it up. Even if it happened a 100 years ago. I wouldn't blame you for a murder that your father committed, but you would have some responsibility if you were hiding the evidence and providing a false alibi for him.

[–]datguylol42 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The father one is a good example. I agree

[–]Undertaker17 35ポイント36ポイント  (73子コメント)

Just like the Japanese denying that the Nanking Massacre ever happened.

[–]SterlingBowman 17ポイント18ポイント  (65子コメント)

Wait what? I've never heard of them denying that, it's a very well documented event in history.

[–]Undertaker17 33ポイント34ポイント  (62子コメント)

It is denied by many. Some say it never happened. (e.g. the NHK governor) Some call it an 'incident'. It has also been proven that Japanese school textbooks leave out the massacre. here's a source.

Obviously not all deny it, just like not all Turks deny the Armenian. However the average Turk or Japanese person is significantly more nationalistic than other people. Thus therefore a large number of each deny their respective past crimes.

[–]McBonderson 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I mean I've heard some denying it, but it was always my impression that those were the fringe. I always thought Japan in general recognized that it happened.

[–]routebeer 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Just like all the Redditors denying the actual Holocaust happened.

[–]szombathelyi53 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those are just crazies from racist subs though

[–]DarthWarder 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I "liked" hearing about it in Hardcore History. That series rarely fails to point out the wrongdoings - or common practice in those times - of all civilizations.

[–]Shahata_Joe 9ポイント10ポイント  (14子コメント)

The actual scholarly issue is if it should be considered a genocide.

Because the goal of the ottomans weren't to eliminate the Armenians. At least officially. It was to put down uprisings, and Armenians were one of the largest uprisings and closest to the ottoman capital.

The ottomans were killing lots of people at the time, too. There were also a lot of rebellions because of how shitty he ottomans had become.

[–]Nikolasv 11ポイント12ポイント  (10子コメント)

There is no real scholarly issue or debate, most genocide scholars agree it is a genocide, there is a pretty big consensus. There is one person you could maybe consider a sorry excuse for a genocide scholar who denies the Armenian genocide, Guenter Lewy, but he is a Holocaust survivor and Jewish supremacist who denies the Nazi genocidal intentions against the gypsies, that Native Americans suffered a genocide, he whitewashed American atrocities against Vietnamese. Basically Lewy is a rare type of Holocaust exclusivists who thinks any other type of suffering or genocide competes, so the asshole that he is, denies every genocide that didn't happen to Jews. The Turkish government didn't need to convince him of much to help with their denial of the Armenian genocide. But most genocide scholars and Jews also wash their hands with the likes of Lewy.

The issue is that the Turkish government interferes in history in Turkey by creating official positions that the ultra-nationalist Turkish population and scholars parrot. Turkey tries to do the same abroad especially in the United States by funding chairs of Ottoman and modern Turkish history and having Turkish embassies and scholars try to micro-manage scholars who are willing to be corrupted:

http://www.alternet.org/story/87223/u.s._politicians_and_scholars_are_helping_turkey_cover_up_wwi_armenian_genocide

In 1982, the government of Turkey donated $3 million to create the Institute for Turkish Studies, a nonprofit organization housed at Georgetown University that pushes a pro-Turkey agenda, including denial of the Armenian genocide. Three years later, in 1985, Turkey bought full-page advertisements in The New York Times, The Washington Post and The Washington Times to publish a letter questioning the Armenian genocide that was signed by 69 American scholars. All 69 had received funding that year from the Institute for Turkish Studies or another of Turkey's surrogates like the Ankara Chamber of Commerce, a quasi-governmental agency in Turkey's capital city.

The Institute for Turkish Studies has since received sizable donations from American defense contractors that sell arms to Turkey, including General Dynamics and Westinghouse. Turkey continues to provide an annual subsidy to support the institute. In 2006, the most recent year for which tax records are available, the institute awarded $85,000 in grants to scholars. Its chairman is the current Turkish ambassador to the U.S., Nabi Sensoy.

And:

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/07/01/turkey#ixzz2sUd75RrL

  • An incident in 2006, only recently being talked about publicly, has some scholars concerned that Turkey and its supporters may be interfering in American scholarship. The chair of the board of the Institute of Turkish Studies, which is based at Georgetown University, resigned at the end of 2006, and he says he was given a choice by Turkish officials of either quitting or seeing the funding for the institute go away.

  • Quataert led the institute's board from 2001 until his controversial departure at the end of 2006.

  • In an interview, Quataert said that after his review was published, he was told by David C. Cuthell, director of the institute, that people in Turkey were upset about his use of the word genocide and that he should call the Turkish ambassador.

  • Based on his experience, Quataert said that it is "a very difficult question" to consider whether the institute at this point has credibility as a source of financing for research and education. "By forcing my resignation, the Turkish government has made very clear that there are bounds beyond which people cannot go," he said.

What ignorants like you attribute to scholarly debate on the issue of whether or there not was an Armenian genocide, is scholars biased by the considerable funding and interference the Turkish government tries to create in American institutions of higher learning. Let us not forget the Heath Lowry affair also:

https://pen.org/nonfiction/professional-ethics-and-denial-armenian-genocide

It has been said that gentlemen do not read other gentlemen’s mail. But suppose that one[genocide scholar Robert Jay Lifton] receives a letter from the Turkish ambassador to the United States rebuking one’s scholarship because one has written about what the ambassador refers to as “the so-called ‘Armenian genocide,’ allegedly perpetrated by the Ottoman Turks during the First World War.” And suppose that, inadvertently, the envelope also contains an internal memorandum written by the executive director of what claims to be a non­political, scholarly institute[Heath Lowry, then executive director of the Institute for Turkish Studies] and that memorandum reveals much about the mentality of those who engage in denial of the Armenian genocide. What then?

tl:dr; A genocide scholar, Robert Jay Lifton published a book [u]The Nazi Doctors, Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide[/u] where he attested there was an Armenian genocide and op-cited alot of the work of the Armenian-American scholar Vahakn Dadrian, since the Armenian genocide is not his field(which is most scholars do outside their primary field, cite other specialists who they deem credible). Nuzhet Kandemir, then Turkish ambassador in Washington sent a letter to Lifton in 1990 objecting to the coverage of the Armenian genocide in his book. Thankfully the idiot Turkrabian ambassador also accidentally also sent Robert Lifton a letter that Heath Lowry(Atatürk Professor of Ottoman and Modern Turkish Studies and then head of the Institute of Turkish studies) sent to the Kandemir that included the same draft letter that the Turkish ambassador pretended to write and very forthright talk about how to deny the Armenian genocide!

[–]4cornerhustler 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

you're not getting a lot of love, but you are correct. there's a bit more nuance to the argument than just "it happened" vs "it didn't happen"

many Turks will acknowledge the deaths, but blame it on something else. they aren't correct...it was a genocide....but I'll always allow for scholarly debate around the issue.

[–]haf-haf 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

not on something else, they blame it on Armenians.

[–]flexyourhead_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Weren't the Ottomans forcefully moving Armenians? I thought that was what killed most of them.

[–]SuleymanSimayoglu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well if you call a massacre a genocide, sure, it never happened.

Lawyered.

[–]tarekd19 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ironically with the title, during the Armenian genocide there was also the mass murder of Assyrians within Ottoman territories of which there is a growing movement to expose in the history.

[–]themesswearein 26ポイント27ポイント  (3子コメント)

I feel ashamed that the Turkish government and the people are still denying. At this point majority of Turkey became chauvinistic, nationalists who seem to never question what authority tells them. It is the people that will change the history, I hope one day.

[–]UseApostrophesBetter 17ポイント18ポイント  (2子コメント)

The TSA and the Patriot Act exist for your safety, and if it weren't for our troops on the ground, terrorists would be taking away our freedom. Columbus discovered America in 1492, and brought civilization to the New World. The Mayflower was full of people seeking freedom from religious persecution, and peacefully sat down to dinner with the natives on the third Thursday of November. Years later, those natives would gradually migrate west, and eventually settled in their historical home in the desert. Kennedy was shot by a psycho, and not because he wanted to end the Cold War. On 9/11/2001, terrorists supported by Saddam Hussein flew three planes into eight buildings in two states, destroying all but one of them. As a result, the NSA collects metadata to protect us from anything like that happening again. That's what makes it the best country in the world, and if you say otherwise, you're wrong.

[–]joshmoneymusic [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

That might be more relevant if almost every single one of your points wasn't already frequently contested by other Americans. I'd wager nearly half of the country would dispute more than one point.

[–]UseApostrophesBetter [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's the beauty of a melting pot country that covers a relatively wide geographical area. Things are changing, but when most of these things happened, they had a lot of public support. Remember 9/11 happened and Jib-Jab had those bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-bomb-Saddam videos? People ate that shit up. Nationalism hit a peak in the US for the first year or so after 9/11. Now we know better. Columbus "discovering" the new world was accepted as fact until a few years ago, when it became clear and widely known that he was a genocidal maniac, and that vikings had been to what's now Canada centuries before Columbus. Suggesting that 9/11 was at least partially an inside job is still considered insane. Kennedy's assassination is still considered one of the pinnacles of conspiracy theories. The general public generally didn't give a shit about what native Americans went through to get where they are today so much so that the hero of Indian-killing westerns was elected as president. Imagine if Leonardo Dicaprio was famous almost exclusively for movies where he played a role like Calvin Candy in Django Unchained, went so far as to act the part even when he wasn't on-screen, and he got elected president.

All that being said, we know what the US is up to now, and the majority of Americans still think it's the greatest country in the world.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because you aren't, but Turkey is a much smaller country with a more unified populace, so it's easier to perpetuate "traditional" ideas without as wide a variety of dissenting opinions.

[–]markatl84 32ポイント33ポイント  (28子コメント)

Can someone please explain to me why there is a network called THE YOUNG TURKS after watching this?!? Why did he name the network this? I had no idea this meaning of the word. This needs a damn explanation!

[–]SamiumAbisare 36ポイント37ポイント  (12子コメント)

Cenk denies it happened. However, the term "Young Turks" has also come to mean "a faction of young, progressive reformists", so it can be used without being directly linked to the Ottoman empire.

[–]No0bskywalker 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

Young Turk noun: - a member of a revolutionary party in the Ottoman Empire who carried out the revolution of 1908 and deposed the sultan Abdul Hamid II.

  • a young person eager for radical change to the established order.

[–]bleedingjim 32ポイント33ポイント  (3子コメント)

Because Cenk denies that this happened.

[–]Bac0nLegs 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

He no longer denies it. He wrote an apology a few weeks ago about the comments he made about it.

"The Young Turks" also mean a faction of young progressives/rebels.

As an Armenian, I'm pretty Okay with all of this.

[–]suicideposter 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm pretty sure it was a BS statement saying "I don't know what actually happened" rather than apologizing for anything.

[–]Bac0nLegs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, it was more like "I'm sorry for the bullshit I said when I was younger. It was wrong. I shouldn't talk about things I have no understanding of."

This was also tweeted by Ana Kasparian who is Armenian.

But who knows, really.

[–]pics-or-didnt-happen -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those guys are cunts for so many more immediate reasons.

[–]meechosch 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's a small discussion we had recently about what's considered genocide and what ethnic cleansing. It's all defined unclearly enough to serve specific international law offenders.

[–]Jazskimo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

My partner is Armenian and lost family in the genocide. If it's ever mentioned in conversation around him, it affects him. His point is, the past is the past, everyone needs to move on, never forget it happen, but acknowledgement would bring a kind of closure to so many. So that true healing can begin.

I never even know about it until I met him. I don't think Australia recognises it as a genocide, which is so shit, cause that's where he and his family immigrated too.

[–]jackKmart 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was reading up on WW1 and I stumbled across this topic and I just wondered why I had never even heard of this before then. Awful stuff

[–]ares_god_not_sign 13ポイント14ポイント  (10子コメント)

An older TIL post had some good discussion.

/u/SecureThruObscure writes:

Without taking a side on the issue:

The Turkish government doesn't debate that Armenians were killed or expelled from the area that would become Turkey (it was, at the time, part of the Ottoman Empire). They deny that it was a genocide.

They deny it was a genocide for a few reasons: 1) They claim there was no intent, and a key part of the term genocide itself is the intent, 2) the term genocide was coined after this event occurred, and to apply it here would be ex post facto, or criminalizing something after the fact.

I'm sure I have missed some nuance, and even some arguments entirely.

/u/orkushun continued:

Another point is, Turkey was fighting a war at that moment with several countries including Russia, The Armenian population in the ottoman empire revolted under the leadership of a group called Dashnaktsutyun and sided with Russia (which Turkey at that moment saw as treason since the Armenians people were part of the ottoman empire for over 600 years). Turkey sees the actions as a defensive action, which also explains why they say there was no intent.

Edit: I'm not trying to say it didn't happen or that I don't think it was a genocide. I think it's important to understand both sides of the issue, and dismissing Turks as brainwashed idiots like some people in this thread are doing isn't correct or constructive.

[–]haf-haf 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Without taking sides but repeating the turkish official denialist theses?

It was a genocide because the term was created in 30s to described what happened to Armenians (the person who created it, talking about the armenian genocide). Later in 1948 it was adopted by UN, after the holocaust. So by that logic the holocaust is not a genocide either, which no one debates about, right?

[–]Shahata_Joe -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The issue is the ottomans at that pint in history were losing legitimacy. They had failed North Africa and Egypt well before the British and French came in. They were trying to centralize their government AND culture. What this meant was they were enforcing the idea that people were no longer an ethnic group of religious group. They were ottoman. They were enforcing the idea that they were no long Arab or Armenian, Muslim or Christian, you were ottoman. They were trying to rule like the French, as oppose to their previous technique for the past 500 years, where nations were more independent.

Also, the Armenian massacre wasn't the first. The ottomans began to slaughter all kinds of people. The Armenians simply rebelled during WWI, AND were very close to the ottoman capital.

The ottomans were absolutely at fault. The Balkans also rebelled, and so did the Arabs (who's rebellion would later be hijacked by the Saudi tribe). The ottomans deserved to fall, but they took a lot of people down with them. The Armenians aren't at fault for rebellion. Sorry, that's not how it works.

[–]nightwatch808 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Armenians aren't at fault for rebellion.

I don't see how that works. Why?

[–]gumpmeister 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yikes, this thread and the YouTube comments are just terrible. People using this genocide to hate on Jews for complaining about the Holocaust, people saying Turks should get killed, etc. I was well aware of the Armenian genocide beforehand, but that's because we learned about it in history class.

[–]Puskathesecond 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Jews complaining about the Holocaust"

As a Jew I find that hilarious. "How you doing, Shlomo?" "Eh, could've done without the Holocaust"

[–]BodgeJob 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

we learned about it in history class.

Shee-uks we gots ourselves a dun dingit non-American round here with his fancy history lessons.

[–]BirkanG 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Im Turkish and ofcourse the genocide happened... I cant understand how my fellow turks can deny it, we even call it 'sözde ermeni soykırımı' which translates to 'so called armenian genocide'.. We Turks are very nationalists and just can't admit or accept it ever happened as it would mean being defeated and owning up...

Turks when not happy about someone would say 'ermeni dölü' which means 'armenian cum' as an insult... As if we owned upto it now, what could possibly be the worse thing that can happen for something our ancestors did....

[–]datguylol42 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

thanks for acknowledging this, it means a lot

[–]ArefArif9 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

It was a defensive move against the Armenian rebellion.

They were exiled, not slaughtered, they died on the way.

Siding with Armenians can get you free karma, but it won't change the truth.

[–]BirkanG [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

just one example

dude, our ancestors nailed horseshoe on those peoples feets. How can you say they were exiled...

[–]Deadstockheat 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Such a disappointment this can't be recognized.

[–]GrayFauchs 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Back to the river Aras!!!

[–]Banned_For_Opinion 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm Armenian. It's incredible how many people don't even know about this. So sad.

[–]covert-pops 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

System of a Down exposed this to me

[–]WukiLeaks 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

soad's main purpose was to bring light to the Armenian genocide. They're the reason many people know about it, myself included.

[–]MeritWinstheSoul 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

My family is Armenian and had been living in Turkey until the 1970s. Nana was accepting of Turks, Dede was not. The cacophony at family gatherings was earth shattering.

[–]cspyny 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Never learned about it in school. I only learned of it last year (or the year before) when billboards started popping up all over about it.

[–]joagarc 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Guess it's going to stay hidden.

[–]enigmatoid 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Watching this in Turkey.

In your face, Turkey!

[–]surfbredan2 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

Erdogan will be under your bed tonight

[–]enigmatoid 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, if only I slept on a bed.

I sleep on the floor. There are rats under the floorboards, though, and he's welcome to come join their nightly party.

[–]GildoFotzo 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Woah, youve got a floor? ive just got the rats.

[–]enigmatoid 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kill them and make a floor out of their dead carcasses.

[–]IwasAxel 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ty for this post. Means a lot

[–]CharlieDavyKW 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

"I think it's fair to say that (the Armenian Genocide) has always been viewed and I think properly so, and a matter of historical debate and conclusions rather than political." - Hillary Clinton

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zivCL0NCy9E

[–]rgaahadf23rdafdf 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

She literally says nothing of substance or any real meaning. That's unbelievable

[–]SterlingBowman 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Warning: below you'll find a bunch of Turks claiming 'there was no genocide'. Not sure if they actually believe anyone is buying it.

[–]Lyonbane 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

Nothing but these comments under the video, people still hate each other, no one is ashamed of what has happened, no one learned anything (even the uploader of the documentary)... So this makes me think that humans does not deserve anything good at all.

[–]veryreasonable 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

Holy fuck the comments are awful.

Don't get sucked into judging our species by YouTube comments, though. That's like judging the taste of fresh fruit fruit by the smell of a compost heap.

[–]Stained_Panda 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's fucked.

I was watching some scene that depicted the a battle from the Zulu Wars.

There were comments asking for British Victorian Imperialism to return.

[–]QuestionAboutHarass 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are you surprised when you look at the state of the world? We have people saying you can't have dreadlocks because of 'appropriation'. Worlds fucked anyway

[–]CrispyLiberal 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's really sad that people can't move past this conflict, but how can they when Turkey continues to deny it ever happened. Imagine half your race getting systematically annihilated, then being denied the dignity that it even happened.

[–]Mugiwaras 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was just reading about this the other day when i was learning a little about the ottoman empire.... on wikipedia lol Thanks for the video i'm gonna watch it later on.

[–]pm_me_ankle_nudes 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

Don't send this to Reddit icon/Bernie nuthugger Cenk Uykghur, he will probably have a fit.

[–]QuestionAboutHarass 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

I hate that guy, but why, what would he hate about this?

[–]MmEeTtAa 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cenk Uygur denies the Armenian genocide

[–]YoungZer0 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

He denies the Armenian Holocaust.

[–]Puffy_Vulva 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can we show this to TYT?

[–]chriscalifornia88 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

something something System of a Down.

[–]hot_dogg 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is why the name Young Turks feels too un-PC, it's a terrible part of history (or is it a Youtube news show? duuuh)

[–]scotchdog -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Scoring points - 37% down voted to 63% up voted.

History isn't about scoring points. If we forget the past we can forget the future.

[–]Mentioned_Videos 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

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Hillary Clinton on the Armenian Genocide 2 - "I think it's fair to say that (the Armenian Genocide) has always been viewed and I think properly so, and a matter of historical debate and conclusions rather than political." - Hillary Clinton
The Genocide Word by Raphael Lemkin #ArmenianGenocide 1 - Without taking sides but repeating the turkish official denialist theses? It was a genocide because the term was created in 30s to described what happened to Armenians (the person who created it, talking about the armenian genocide). Later in 1948 ...
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[–]PinealStew 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel like a ton of people already know about this, but thats coming from someone who knew about this for a while, so i guess i assumed everybody knows what i know.

[–]SrslyTaken 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ahhh, it's the "Hidden Holocaust", because the Armenian's prefer not to profit off the death of their ancestors by resurrecting a museum in every city in the world?

[–]matthewhugh84 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Serj Tankian must be all over this.

[–]ArcticLightning 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Waiting for the typical Serbian to bring up anytime their nationality was in conflict....

[–]rgaahadf23rdafdf -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Turks are easily the worst people on the planet. Violent, greedy, uneducated, you name it. It's good to see their country collapsing as of late.

[–]April_Fabb -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've always wondered why so many countries so desperately deny the shit of their ancestors. Granted, globally, Erdogan is being laughed at as an insecure, illiterate cunt - accepting the Armenian genocide or not wouldn't change this one bit.

[–]UglyStru -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Serj Tankian wrote a lot of his music about the Armenian Genocide. I actually didn't hear about it until I really listened to his songs and not shit like "MY COCK IS MUCH BIGGER THAN YOURS. MY COCK CAN WALK RIGHT THROUGH THAT DOOR."

[–]GrayFauchs 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That song is actually about politicians knowmsayin

[–]SpaceShipRat -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is there one mention of the armenian genocide that doesn't make it all about being more hipster and underground than the boring old mainstream nazi Holocaust?

[–]gassaray -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The events of 1915 were far more complex than what has been reported in the past and it is important that we recognize this was not as simple a scenario as the Armenian lobby would have us believe.

Despite the propaganda being pushed by a powerful and well-funded Armenian diaspora, the series of events in 1915 and beyond resulted in losses of life on both sides of the conflict. We cannot diminish the suffering that the Armenians faced, but we must acknowledge that millions of Turks, Kurds, and Arabs were also killed during this conflict.

For nearly a century, the Armenian lobby has attempted to portray these actions as a willful, deliberate attempt to commit genocide of the Armenian people – a specific crime which is defined by international law. Nothing could be further from the truth and a detailed examination of the broader context of history paints a vastly different picture.

Furthermore, and as a result, international courts have never designated these tragic events as genocide. There is no legal consensus on the tragedy of 1915 because even though the Armenian lobby has been misrepresenting the facts for nearly a century, history – and the law – tells us otherwise. It’s time to cut through the propaganda and get the facts straight.