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Trayvon Martin gun to be auctioned by George Zimmerman (bbc.com)

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[–]Metal-Lee-Solid 1875ポイント1876ポイント  (197子コメント)

In the article it says that he described the gun as an "American icon." Absolutely detestable.

[–]InsertFunnyReference 233ポイント234ポイント  (196子コメント)

Before he got banned, his Twitter was full of disgusting shit like that. Acting like he was some fucking American hero for killing a kid he was "threatened" by.

[–]BeastAP23 107ポイント108ポイント  (195子コメント)

The only people who think he did the morally correct thing that night are internet users who never go outside. Imagine being followed at home at night, in the rain by some wanna be cop racist douchebag in his truck. Imagine he were following a white 16 y/o girl... oh wait that would never happen but if it did im guessing the girl could have actually shot Zimmerman instead of beating his ass and no one would argue if it were justified. America sucks.

[–]aithne1 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've seen way too many arguments on Reddit against women who perceive following as a threat - one of my first on here, and most memorable, was a guy who said he wanted to tell her "don't flatter yourself" when she kept looking back at him and walking faster.

Firstly, shooting someone for walking behind her wouldn't have been justified. Secondly, there's always someone who would argue that he was unfairly suspected for just being a man. So, I think it's probably incorrect to say no one would say anything. There'd probably be a pretty serious debate.

[–]BJJJourney 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

I was at a packed restaurant when the verdict was announced. A good majority of the people there were legit cheering and even a lady looked relieved. The support he had in the mainstream is absolutely insane, it isn't just random internet heroes.

[–]isrly_eder [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

take that and multiply it by 1000 and you get the OJ case.

it happens on both sides

[–]the1who_ringsthebell 5ポイント6ポイント  (8子コメント)

Most people aren't saying that he was morally right, just that Martin is the one who escalated things, and that Zimmerman shouldn't be charged with anything (which he wasn't because he didn't do anything wrong).

Only reason it went to trial was because of internet users thinking Martin did the morally correct thing and Zimmerman plus the whole police force and DA are racist assholes.

[–]_durian_ 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

You could argue that Zimmerman started it by stalking a kid in the dark. Zimmerman was just lucky the kid didn't have a gun to defend himself first. All this tells us is that the justice system doesn't favor the dead. If you survive, the system has to prove you were in the wrong. That's not easy in a lot of cases involving self defense.

[–]Anshin [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Honestly with the shit this guy has done since the incident it's pretty fucking difficult to defend this piece of shit.

[–]Insi6nia [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

On the flip side, I can't imagine that having 50% of the people around you hating your guts, calling you a racist to your face, and literally shooting at you as you drive down the road is a lot of fun.

I'm willing to bet that most people would act a little differently if their entire life was ruined by idiots who believe he was in the wrong despite all of the evidence that he wasn't, especially since all he was trying to do was make sure there weren't any more break-ins in his neighborhood.

[–]Anshin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

True. There's definitely some hidden by the story but it definitely is possible that he was trying to defend his neighborhood, albeit by the wrong means. People are just assholes that assume shit and take it into their own hands.

[–]the1who_ringsthebell -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you survive, the system has to prove you were in the wrong

As opposed to?

[–]_durian_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm not disagreeing. But the it does means your chances in court are usually better if there is only one story to tell.

[–]SirNarwhal [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

This is incorrect; the only thing with the criminal trial was that it needed to prove without a burden of doubt that it was not an act of self defense, which could not be proven, hence why he wasn't charged. Dude is still a douchebag and still did the wrong thing that night, it just wasn't a criminal violation.

[–]the1who_ringsthebell [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Its incorrect that the only reason it went to trial was because of media attention?

[–]eagle_bites [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

America sucks.

I hear Somalia is nice this time of year.

[–]tsingi -5ポイント-4ポイント  (17子コメント)

The only people who think he did the morally correct thing that night are internet users who never go outside.

I can't stop laughing at that. It smells of truth.

[–]the1who_ringsthebell 5ポイント6ポイント  (13子コメント)

Most people don't think Zimmerman should have followed him. But the people that aren't on Martin's side realize that jjust because you are being followed doesn't mean youo can attack someone. And that just because the victim is black and it wasn't going to go to trial doesn't mean the police department or the DA are racist pigs. There was no case for a conviction, which is why they didn't press charges until all the outside pressure came in.

[–]RellenD -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

If trayvon had a gun, he'd have been justified in shooting Zimmerman.

I think good subsequent misdeeds with firearms show what kind of person Zimmerman is.

[–]the1who_ringsthebell 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

If trayvon had a gun, he'd have been justified in shooting Zimmerman.

You can't just shoot people who are following you...

[–]RellenD -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Trayvon had no duty to retreat - Zimmerman was armed and Trayvon felt his life was in danger.

That's the entirety of what would be needed for Martin to shoot him.

[–]the1who_ringsthebell [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Zimmerman used self defense not stand your ground as a defense.

So if both people were armed and one person has the gun holstered, the other person can come and confront them with a gun and shoot them?

[–]Sweatin_2_the_oldies 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's not true. Trayvon's perception of imminent death or great bodily harm would have to be deemed "reasonable"by the jury. Shooting someone for following you is not reasonable!

[–]RellenD [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You're right, black kids have a hard time being seen as reasonable by juries.

[–]GabrielGray -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Point is, someone following you with a gun is something blacks should just have to put up with. White kid could've stabbed Zimmerman and America would've shat it's collective pants when Zimmerman shot him.

[–]DS3_Toss_away 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

And black people shooting guns in the streets is something that everyone has to put up with.

Whites are the victim of black crime all the time (at a MUCH higer rater than white-on-black, yet there is never media outrage about it.

[–]GabrielGray 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whites are the victim of black crime all the time (at a MUCH higer rater than white-on-black, yet there is never media outrage about it.

Where is the media outrage about white on white crime?

[–]the1who_ringsthebell 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It would never have been in the news. And most people who knew of this imaginary story would be able to look past his color and see the kid was being an idiot.

[–]tsingi -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yesterday, riding home on my motorcycle I was following a small dump truck. He traced my route exactly for 5 turns, then about 2 blocks from home he waved me past at a stop sign.

I'm can't say for sure if he was being polite and letting me pass or if he was annoyed and thought that I was following him for some reason. But he looked annoyed.

This is in the afternoon in Ottawa not on a dark street.

[–]TelamonianAjax -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

You're an idiot if you actually keep coming back to this thought and laughing.

[–]tsingi -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're an idiot

Whereas you appear to be an asshole trolling for people to insult.

Insults have to be accepted so keep trying.

[–]TelamonianAjax 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's no such thing as "accepting an insult".

You are by definition an idiot if you are really that easily amused. There's no escaping it.

[–]YourARisAwful -3ポイント-2ポイント  (12子コメント)

Imagine being followed home at night, in the rain by some wannabe cop racist douchebag in his truck. Imagine that you make it home safe and sound with nothing more than a creepy story to tell.

Imagine then that you leave your house to track this person down for following you. Imagine then that you confront him and attack him, climbing on top of him, and punching him in the face repeatedly.

[–]BoutaBustMaNut [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Zimmerman had the right to stand his ground but what about Treyvon?

Was he supposed to give up his ground because he was black?

Why does no one talk about his right to defend himself from his attacker?

[–]spvcejam [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

America doesn't suck. Some of it's people suck. It's part of the whole freedom thing.

[–]Just-some-random-guy -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

You guess wrong. Zimmerman didn't even use stand your ground as a defense. He used self defense. Even so, stand your ground laws have a lot of little details and feeling threatened isn't enough to shoot someone.

[–]BeastAP23 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I didn't mention stand your ground.

[–]Just-some-random-guy -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stand your ground is the context of this chain. . If you weren't how could you even pretend to justify the 16 y/o girl shooting him?

[–]Mechachu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you have it backwards, the only posts mentioning standing your ground were for Martin.

[–]randomaccount178 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (5子コメント)

I would probably be wondering why this scared person in complete fear of their life one block from their home and safety turned around after losing the person, searched for the person, found the person, and started beating their skull in while the other person did nothing. Up to a certain point your bullshit story holds water, the problem people forget is the hard break between that story and what actually happened. Actually, even before that it doesn't hold water because we have the conversation between Trayvon and his girlfriend where he wasn't in fear of his life.

For the record, if theoretical girl in the same situation had shot Zimmerman (and not lied) she would of been charged with Murder. She would be charged for the same reason the person in the "warning shot" (which people brought up as an analogue all the time during the case) was charged. Once you have removed yourself from the situation then your justification to shoot is gone.

[–]AmazingMarv [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

*would have

[–]justreadthecomment [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Oh, I can help you with that. Just think back to all the times you were stalked by a gun toting maniac because of the color of your skin. Just try and draw on all that personal experience you have and remember what that felt like.

[–]randomaccount178 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

That made absolutely no sense in context of the comment, Bravo.

[–]justreadthecomment [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You said you were wondering what his mindset was when he confronted Zimmerman. I'm hopelessly trying to demonstrate to you that you can't understand the way systemic racism affects a person without actually experiencing it. Try to keep up, there, chief.

[–]randomaccount178 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Really, I didn't know black people had telepathy, because otherwise he wasn't a gun toting maniac.

[–]xxxDragonSlayer -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The only people who think he did the morally correct thing that night are

People who know the law

[–]Takemycreamyload -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trayvin assaulted him. He did the correct thing defending himself.

[–]mutantfrogmoth -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

An innocent 16 year old white girl who hopped onto Zimmerman's chest and started knocking his skull into the pavement?

[–]Pirates4Life -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or people who actually watched the case closely and reviewed all the evidence.

Reddit loves to forget some shit I tell you what this entire thread is still defending Trayvon martin completely ignoring the eye witness testimony that trayvon was on top of zimmerman beating the shit out of him along with the physical evidence to back it up. The kid was dumb got shot and killed blame the shitty parents who didn't give this kid half a brain cell.

[–]FARTBOX_DESTROYER -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Imagine you're working the neighborhood watch trying to keep your neighbors safe when a giant teenage suspicious person confronts you and proceeds to beat the living shit out of you, repeatedly smashing your head into the curb.

I'm not going to argue that he was a swell guy but, according to the facts that we have, he could have handled it better, but doesn't deserve jail time for what he did.

[–]king--polly -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Morality is irrelevant. Morality is personal to each person. Is abortion moral or immoral? Drone strikes? Muslim ban Deporting illegal immigrants? Morality is different for each person. What does the law say?

[–]BeastAP23 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It used to be legal to own slaves and rape your wife.

[–]Mangalz -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can agree that he should have stopped following Trayvon when the 911 operator told him to, but there is nothing immoral about defending yourself once you are under attack.

America sucks.

Then maybe..

[–]king--polly -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Morality is irrelevant. Morality is personal to each person. Is abortion moral or immoral? Drone strikes? Muslim ban Deporting illegal immigrants? Morality is different for each person. What does the law say?

[–]ObamasBoss [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

First off, you suck. Second, martin was followed because they had a number of recent breakins and he fit the description, as vague as it was. Someone following for a short period of time in public is not a reason to beat them up. Following someone is not that good of an idea either. Zimmerman should have stayed in his car in reality. Regardless of who was a jerk and who was not Martin was beating up Zimmerman and in the fight noticed the gun. Martin told Zimmerman he was going to "die today". In a fight and a gun is uncovered on a person's hip, I can believe this was said. At this point because they are in a struggle both men are effectively armed with the same gun. Once a weapon of any find enters a fight it will nearly always be used, but not always by the person who brought it. It is logical that the gun became a focal point of the fight. First to get it lives, the other one dies. I do not think Zimmerman should not have been there. Martin should not have attacked Zimmerman. Being there is not illegal but attacking is. Did the two start talking trash, most likely, but not illegal. Can you defend yourself in a fight, yes. Can you be winning the fight and start a ground and pound session, no. There is a fine line between defending and attacking, and it is very easy to overstep it in the moment. Now you said "morally correct", that we will never know. Need to be there for determine that and of course Zimmerman is never going to say "well I walked up spat in his face and kicked his nuts" and we will never hear Martin say any of that for obvious reasons.

I had a two guys ask me for money at night, then get up and follow me back to my hotel walking only a step behind me the entire way. They even entered the nice hotel and followed me until stopped by hotel staff. I did not attack them.