上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]johnjims 23ポイント24ポイント  (6子コメント)

I continue using Uber, just place the pin somewhere outside the city limits (check out a map for the city limits, or check out other threads), call the driver to tell them where I am [really] located. If they agree to pick me up, I give them a fat tip for working out the system with me, and getting me from point A to B. Just my two cents.

[–]unoriginalloser 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Have most drivers been okay with this? Do they have to start the trip outside of Austin city limits (running the per minute/mile meter until they pick you up)?

[–]moderatelygood 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

The ride is offered to them based on their proximity to the pin though, no? So they could be very far from where you actually are?

[–]Sumgi 9ポイント10ポイント  (7子コメント)

Grab a city limits map, uber still picks up in rollingwood across from zilker and in cedar park. Drops off anywhere in Austin.

[–]R4G 56ポイント57ポイント  (9子コメント)

So I live on the 35 frontage road. How is walking along the highway for a mile then hanging out at a sketchy bus stop a safer alternative to riding with an unfingerprinted driver?

[–]Cochinita 26ポイント27ポイント  (3子コメント)

Those that are saying bike or bus is the solution have probably done neither. Here is a bus stop on E MLK that has no sidewalk and 4 lanes of 40mph traffic to cross. When the bus does stop it completely blocks the right traffic lane and cars behind it rush to the left lane to get around it.

[–]ElCthuluIncognito 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

Never thought if it that way.

What little justification there was is out the window for me at this point.

[–]z64dan 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just in time for the election!

[–]Bellegante [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

More to it than just fingerprinting. It gives taxis an advantage over ride sharing, not just evening the playing field. Financial reporting requirements that are ridiculous, requirements that make the whole 'internet company with local employees' model impossible, requirements taxis don't have to obey. Copied from the source linked above.


Link to Original Ordinance (Now Stays Law)

Link to Prop 1 Ordinance (Which Failed)

TNC = Transportation Network Company

There's a lot of stuff in 20151217-075 that most people including myself find sensible - in fact MOST of the sensible regulations would've stayed if Prop 1 passed. However, there's also a lot of stuff that makes it very difficult for TNCs to get drivers and would add huge operating cost overhead (especially if other cities also adopt similar laws). In addition, there are some laws that no private company would ever agree to as it makes public revenues and operating information public.

After reading this it makes sense why the TNCs spent so much on Prop 1. It actually makes me wonder if GetMe has even read the original legislation, because any sensible CEO would not agree to operate in a city with these laws.

Here's the ones that stuck out to me:

§ 13-2-516 DATA REPORTING REQUIREMENTS.

(B) A TNC shall provide the following data, recorded in four-hour blocks, to the director on the last day of each month:

(1) number of trips requested for service;

(2) number of trips requested, but not serviced, according to zip code;

(3) number of vehicles logged into the TNC platform;

(4) number of pick-ups and drop-offs according to zip code;

(5) accessible vehicle trips requested and serviced;

(6) accessible vehicle trips requested and not serviced; and

(7) amount of time that surge pricing is in effect.

(C) Driver hours logged onto the TNC platform shall be recorded daily and reported to the director on the last day of each month.

(D) A TNC shall record the following data monthly and report it to the director on the last day of each month:

(1) number of trips completed and passengers transported;

(2) gross receipts generated;

(3) progress on meeting the accessibility needs of the public; and

(4) total hours and miles driven by compliant drivers and for all drivers.

All of this would have added overhead in building reporting systems that service these laws and would make public very private information as to how well each TNC was doing as a company.

§13-2-521 INSPECTIONS

(A) Before operating a vehicle under a TNC platform, a vehicle must successfully pass an inspection by a mechanic certified by the State of Texas, and approved by the director, to perform state inspections. Inspection stickers must be displayed on the vehicle.

(B) The safety inspections will certify a list of items established by separate ordinance and shall be equitable as between TNCs and other vehicles for hire.

So essentially redundant checks. TxDOT already requires vehicle inspections yearly, why impose this again on drivers?

§ 13-2-522 TRADE DRESS

All vehicles operating under a TNC platform shall display a consistent and distinctive director approved emblem indicating which TNC is being used at all times that the vehicle is being used to provide TNC services.

Uber/Lyft already provide logos for the interior of the car, but now the city has to approve these logos?

§ 13-2-527 DRIVER ELIGIBILITY—CRIMINAL BACKGROUND AND DRIVER HISTORY CHECKS.

(G) To be eligible to participate in the Safety Assurance Program authorized under Subsection (E), a TNC must commit to a driver onboarding process that:

(a) refiects best practices for public safety;

(b) includes face-to-face interviews with all drivers to be onboarded;

(c) requires potential drivers to demonstrate the ability to drive safely; and

(d) demonstrates good-faith efforts to onboard drivers who have completed the fingerprint-based background check process as measured by the Austin Transportation Department and measured by percentages of drivers.

In order for a TNC to get the “help” with fingerprinting from the city, they would also have to extend their onboarding process to include all of this. This would be ridiculous to manage given the driver turnaround and add huge costs in hiring people to manage it all.

§ 13-2-529 DRIVER TRAINING.

A TNC shall establish a driver-training program designed to ensure that each driver safely operates his or her vehicle prior to the driver being able to offer service.

Basically, drivers who are already allowed to operate their own vehicle under their drivers license have to be re-trained to do so. Again, increasing onboarding time and adding overhead costs.

§ 13-2-532 TNC FEES.

(A) Each TNC operating in the City of Austin shall pay an annual fee calculated by the department based on one of the following methods of that TNCs choosing:

(1) The total of the permit fee paid by taxicab companies times the number of persons driving for the TNC;

(2) One (1) percent of the TNCs annual local gross revenues, or a comparable percentage of a TNCs portion of driver fares; or

(3) Based on total miles driven.

Obviously increased cost to operate all around. The language of A1 is interesting that they specifically mention taxicab permit rates (which were $450/ea last year). But this wouldn’t be the cab companies trying to level the playing field in order to save their business right?

§ 13-2-534 MAXIMUM FEE. No TNC shall pay more than 2% of its annual gross revenue.

This makes it sound like the city is being reasonable, but 2% of Uber or Lyft’s GROSS revenue (not profit) is an incredibly high ceiling.

Edit: formatting

[–]SpacedAlien 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was never about safety. That was just the council's excuse for running U/L out of town.

[–]okayshure 35ポイント36ポイント  (46子コメント)

Will Uber/Lyft really come back? This getme app sucks and cabs are unreliable and expensive.

[–]lhtaylor00 18ポイント19ポイント  (29子コメント)

It's literally been 24 hours since they left. Can you give the situation some time to adjust? Uber and Lyft are doing exactly what I expected them to do: inflict as much punishment on the citizens as possible in hopes of stoking the ire of the voter. They want people to get angry enough to call the city council members and complain.

So they leave the city right around the beginning of the work day so that people who rely on U/L for transportation to work are inconvenienced. And all the people getting upset at the voters are playing right into their hands instead of being pissed off at U/L for making this tantrum last longer than it should and peppering their customers with passive-aggressive comments about being "forced out."

[–]justfortrees 7ポイント8ポイント  (28子コメント)

If you read the legislation that Prop 1 failed to replace, you'll find that no reasonable private business would stay given all the requirements for TNCs (not just the fingerprinting).

[–]lhtaylor00 12ポイント13ポイント  (25子コメント)

Actually, I read not only the ordinance but also Prop 1 in their entirety. Other than the reporting requirements (which I did believe to be onerous), I saw nothing in there that would hinder their business model long-term or even to a serious degree.

That's actually what drove me against Prop 1. I saw U/L aggressively pushing back against superficial requirements. Trade dress? Not picking up/dropping off in travel lanes? Establishing official pickup/drop off locations during large events? These are simple things, but they were all stripped in Prop 1.

The real reason they only focused on fingerprinting is because that slows down driver acquisition, but again, not to a degree that their business model collapses. If that was the case, they'd never operate in any city where fingerprinting was mandated.

Edit: spelling

[–]price-scot 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

Then why does everybody keep saying, well the cab companies have to do it so should U/L? If this is the case, then cab companies should have to give everybody the exact fare amount before getting in the cab, send electronic receipts, cabs should only be able to pick up dispatched customers (no street hails), must display an accurate picture of drivers, and a picture or description of the type of vehicle, as well as the license plate number of the vehicle, etc......

I wonder how many people think cab companies should have to do this?

[–]marty960 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

What problems were any of these regulations going to solve? It's just unnecessary bureaucratic garbage.

[–]blunderchief 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Vehicles stopping dead constantly in travel lanes makes other drivers speed around them angrily. This presents at the least an annoyance to other road users, and is potentially hazardous, as those drivers can potentially cause collisions with other vehicles this way.

Trade dress, or identifying markers, enables passengers and other road users to know which vehicles are TNCs. This lets potential passengers easily identify the vehicle, and sets expectations for that car's behavior in the mind of other drivers. Additionally, other road users who see that car breaking laws and driving recklessly can then report it to the appropriate company. Putting phone numbers on those cars also helps this. Fingerprinting is much faster than anyone who has never gone through it realizes, and provides more robust security checks. It won't catch every potential danger, but it helps. Setting pick up/drop off areas during events eases congestion for everyone, making your U/L ride proceed more smoothly. Most of these regulations don't matter much outside of downtown, except maybe the trade dress one, but in downtown? Yes, they have a huge impact.

The city could've kicked them out any time when they were operating illegally. They instead chose to go to the negotiating table, and when U/L left that table, they proceeded with some fairly innocuous regulations. U/L chose to leave immediately in protest, which, fine. They weren't required to comply for a year, and they could be making money in the meantime, but instead they're withholding their service, punishing the people and their drivers, which they refuse to officially employ. Somehow they've convinced a lot of people it's the city's fault. Maybe it's the $8 million they could've spent paying their drivers while they forced them to go on strike, but instead used for propaganda.

[–]Dark_Karma 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was concerned with the type of data that the current regulations require Uber and Lyft to turn over to the city - while I understand that the data would likely be protected under various State laws regarding proprietary information, I also believe that it's up to the attorney general to deny or approve public information requests for this data. While Texas is overall very business friendly, relying on the attorney general to protect their data seems like an unsafe variable to rely upon.

Should that information be publicly available, competitors now have all the information they need to stake out Austin hot-spots and beat Uber/Lyft to the customer - from data they did not collect themselves.

[–]shitlurd 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

The trade dress requirement was just silly. The app gives you the car's license plate and a photo of the driver, no signage is needed to verify the vehicle is the one requested. Additionally, it slows driver onboarding.

[–]cld8 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I saw nothing in there that would hinder their business model long-term or even to a serious degree.

How can you make such a conclusion? Are you privy to their balance sheet and future plans?

[–]shiruken 15ポイント16ポイント  (29子コメント)

If you're interested in seeing how /r/Austin voted (or didn't), I created a strawpoll: http://www.strawpoll.me/10175947

[–]price-scot 5ポイント6ポイント  (13子コメント)

Is there actual results that show age/race/income/area demographics of who voted yes/no? I would be interested to see the breakdown

Also, why exactly was this vote held in Spring? It is widely known that spring votes historically have low voter turnout.

[–]shiruken 8ポイント9ポイント  (11子コメント)

Is there actual results that show age/race/income/area demographics of who voted yes/no? I would be interested to see the breakdown

I've been looking for this information too. I'm surprised that the Travis County elections website doesn't have more of that information in their reporting.

Also, why exactly was this vote held in Spring? It is widely known that spring votes historically have low voter turnout.

Uber/Lyft (via Ridesharing Works for Austin) requested it be held in the spring because they wanted to override the new rules ASAP. The city wanted to hold it during the general election this fall, which would have had large turnout because it is a presidential election year. For Uber/Lyft it made sense because a special topic election historically only attracts those that really care about the issue. They probably thought that they had the ability to motivate enough voters out in favor of passing the proposition.

[–]price-scot 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Well then, Uber/Lyft really doesnt understand voting cycles at all. They also didnt take into account the students that are studying hard for upcoming finals as well. If they would have waited until November, I bet the outcome would have been different.

I agree, the information should be pretty easy to get. At least a breakdown of age, sex, political affiliation...

[–]shiruken 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

They also didnt take into account the students that are studying hard for upcoming finals as well.

It seems unwise to ever be dependent upon students voting. Also, many students are not registered to vote here in Travis County.

If they would have waited until November, I bet the outcome would have been different.

I actually heard a discussion (maybe on Texas Standard?) that posited that an issue like Prop. 1 would likely have done worse in a general election. It would be much more difficult to advertise the issue while a presidential election is going on and the larger voter turnout would have been hard to influence.

[–]price-scot 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

and i think the fact that it would have been harder to advertise would have worked in their favor. there are a large number of people that seem to have voted against Prop 1 due to the heavy advertisement.

[–]uluman 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm surprised that the Travis County elections website doesn't have more of that information in their reporting.

Votes are private though. You could compile age/income/etc information by precinct, but that might not be very meaningful with such low turnout.

[–]box_of_corruption 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Uber/Lyft (via Ridesharing Works for Austin) requested it be held in the spring new rules ASAP. The city wanted to hold it during the general election this fall, which would have had large turnout because it is a presidential election year.

Do you have a source for this? I hadn't heard this yet, and if it is true, that is a fuckup for Uber/Lyft. Especially considering the youth vote was their strongest.

[–]Capitolphotoguy 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

All they had to do was wait on getting their sigs validated for their petition. Once the sigs were turned in and validated, then the election MUST be held on the NEXT AVAILABLE ELECTION DATE, which was May 7. That was all on them, they WANTED it on May 7.

[–]TrainsareFascinating 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's correct. The city had no leeway in scheduling, it was all completely determined by what date Uber chose to file the petition.

[–]DKmann 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I did not vote... because I live outside the city, but still in Travis county. I feel I need to validate my poll answer...

[–]that_baddest_dude 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Needs two more columns for "No, I did not vote but I support prop 1," and "No, I did not vote but I'm against prop 1."

[–]shiruken 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why? If you didn't vote your support/opposition does not matter.

[–]that_baddest_dude 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think it'd be neat to see the breakdown of the absentees.

My guess is that those more predisposed to vote are the sort who would favor the regulation, while those against the regulation/pro TNC don't find the time.

[–]cleggcleggers 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

This is fucking shocking to me. I cannot BELIEVE so many Redditors voted against prop 1. My question is how many people who voted against it, used it? And for those who voted against, what was your main reason. Still shocked.

[–]TrainsareFascinating 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

Voted against. Used it. Like the service although it is not perfect.

I didn't vote for it because Uber is an actively aggressive sociopath of a company, lead by an aggressive sociopath, who hires and rewards sociopaths. I've learned over long experience that you never, ever, give those people an inch. They'll take it and shove it a mile up your ass and tell you it's your fault they have to do so.

It is really telling that all of the presumably enlightened, caring tech leaders such as Josh Baer never seem to find it in themselve to call Uber on it's sociopath behavior. I don't know if they just don't care, or actively approve of strong-arm, intimidation, retaliation, and otherwise outrageous behavior. My other theory is that Uber is so heavily financed by so many SV VC heavyweights that everyone in that incestuous community has to go along to avoid retaliation if they ever want to get VC financing again in the future.

[–]fellowtraveler 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

All the Democrats in Austin forcibly taking away our transportation and other economic choices.

All the Republicans in Texas forcibly taking away our recreational choices.

When will people learn to stop electing parties who think it's okay to force us?

[–]abetteraustin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's ok to force someone to not do something, so long as it's not what YOU want to do.

[–]shiruken 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looking at the current numbers only 72 out of 159 respondents voted (45%). Out of those that voted, 44 voted against the proposition (61%). That's not too far off from the 56% that voted against it in the actual election. Of course we're sampling too many actual voters, which tells you something about the /r/Austin user.

[–]KSinz 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

I work downtown where cabs drop off often. Before, like literally two weeks ago, the average cab fair from the airport to my location was around $22-$24. Today was my first day back after the weekend and the average price I saw today was between $30-$32. Seems like a cash grab, but hey maybe there was something to account for the 30% increase.

[–]DKmann 51ポイント52ポイント  (70子コメント)

Here's the lesson that everyone needs to learn about Austin politics - or any other city for that matter.

If you want to get your way legislatively or with regulations, you must organize your industry into a group that participates in the political process. Uber and Lyft differ from other industries because they are not organized like Taxi drivers/owners, Realtors, Contractors, Teachers, Developers etc. et al - (there are hundreds of professional groups).

These groups offer two things to politicians - money and endorsements. Politicians love both of those things because it helps them keep their powerful position.

In this case the Taxi lobby has a long established relationship with local politicos. They were not happy with the Uber/Lyft situation and went to those politicians and made it clear that their money and their endorsement would go to the people who promised to even the playing field for them against ride sharing companies. Uber and Lyft didn't have any such group organized to offer money or endorsements, so they were ignored.

Now, had Uber and Lyft organized their drivers and riders into a group that would vote as a bloc (making their endorsement meaningful) and donate money to campaigns based on the candidates support for their industry, none of this would have happened.

You see, you have to know how to play the game. And the only way to get in the game is to form a team. Once you have a team, you've got a shot at playing and winning.

So, if you want Uber and Lyft back, you need to organize a group that is willing to cast their vote for a politician based on this issue alone and also be willing to collect money and distribute to issue friendly candidates. Once you do that, these regulations go away rather quickly and don't ever pop up again.

(edit: missing words)

[–]price-scot 25ポイント26ポイント  (26子コメント)

Exactly, people get upset that U/L spent $8mil in ads, and whatnot when it would have been much easier to donate $5,000 to a few city councilmen.

[–]DKmann 18ポイント19ポイント  (23子コメント)

And this is precisely the point everyone is missing (well, not you obviously). The biggest problem here is that Austin city government was bought off for $54,000 in campaign donations (I know, some to losers and some to winners, but that doesn't change the effect). These elected officials don't give a flying fuck about ride sharing or your safety - they care about making sure their donors are happy. There are so many safety issues in Austin that are not being attended to it's mind blowing. They can't stop people from throwing rocks off over passes because they are too busy making sure taxi cabs don't have to up their game to compete in the market.

[–]pavlovs_log 11ポイント12ポイント  (10子コメント)

I don't know if it can be as simple as campaign donations. During hearings, council got a lot of advice from Houston city officials who had already implemented fingerprinting. Uber hired a driver who was weeks out from spending ten years in prison who (allegedly) sexually assaulted a passenger which made Houston pass the law. Once fingerprinting was implemented, Houston found "100s" of drivers with various past charges including murder and aggravated assault. Even if the driver didn't sexually assault a passenger, I think Houston was scratching their head as to why a guy weeks out from spending a decade in federal prison was driving passengers. From what I read about Houston, implementing fingerprinting only increased their drive to continue fingerprinting due to the criminal histories found in various drivers previously approved by Uber.

I do think a good compromise would be to let TNCs run their own background check and let drivers drive for up to 30 days once they passed the existing check. The driver then has 30 days to get fingerprinted. If driving for Uber and Lyft is the cash cow everyone thinks it is, a fingerprint is a non-issue. If driving for Uber and Lyft sucks, the driver won't even bother but at least they tried.

To keep TNCs on their toes, any time a TNC allows a driver to drive that has a criminal history they get fined say $10,000. If fingerprinting is no better than their background check, they'll never get fined so it doesn't matter, right?

[–]DKmann 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I know people are trying to track down if the Houston convict story is real. Many are saying that the simplest background check would have shown he was in trouble. Others doubt that someone convicted of a violent crime would be out walking around waiting to start their jail sentence - that's not how that works.

Also, Houston has Uber Black, which serves as a profit driver for Uber and allows them a little flexibility with Uber X drivers.

[–]susanasanjuan 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

even if it is real, Austin has 10k rides hate drivers and Houston probably has a multiple of that. Is it really worth driving these companies out of town based on one isolated incident? It's like if one restaurant waiter decided to poison people, would we suddenly shut down thousands of restaurants until we confirmed that waiters didn't have criminal records?

[–]reuterrat 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

I'm not sure there was ever enough data given by Houston to corroborate the claim of "100s". They conflated the number of individuals with the number of reported crimes which alone could skew things a lot. Much like Uber's claim of 1/3 of taxi drivers failing Uber background checks, there is tons of reason to be skeptical of the claims.

The one incident with that guy in Houston was really odd though. A statistical outlier from what has been a very good screening process nationwide. Just doesn't make sense.

[–]margar3t 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

They can't stop people from throwing rocks off over passes because they are too busy making sure taxi cabs don't have to up their game to compete in the market.

Love that. This whole interference was such an incredible waste of time and money and energy, when there are way bigger safety issues out there that need the time and money and energy.

[–]reuterrat 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, let's compare the rock throwing injury numbers to the ride sharing injury numbers over the same time span. I bet pretty lopsided.

[–]Aikidi 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even after being "bought off" Uber still lost themselves a popular vote, really badly.

[–]that_baddest_dude 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why become just like the taxis?

That's the problem. That's why the taxi companies are such garbage.

If we allow the same to happen with uber and lyft instead of fixing the problem, then in another 10-15 years even better and more innovative solutions won't be able to come to market.

[–]gerfy 14ポイント15ポイント  (26子コメント)

So Uber/Lyft need to bribe politicians, got it.

[–]price-scot 2ポイント3ポイント  (25子コメント)

no, just donate to the campaign like the cab companies did.

[–]gerfy 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

and have THEM bribe the politicians, got it.

[–]kanyeguisada 2ポイント3ポイント  (23子コメント)

So... if Uber/Lyft do it, then it will be "donating to campaigns", but if a yellow-cab company does the same thing it's "zomg the evil cab companies have bribed and bought and paid for Kitchen and the whole city council". Gotcha.

[–]price-scot 3ポイント4ポイント  (22子コメント)

it would be the same thing, although, soon after Kitchen won is when the new regulations came from the council. Can you see how it would appear she is in the pocket for the cab companies? She brought forth the fingerprinting requirement soon after taking he seat.

[–]nebbyb 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

The same Kitchen that had a recall campaign against her funded as soon as she disagreed with Uber? They spent a lot more than 4k on that.

[–]kirchow 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

U/L going straight to campaign funding would have looked highly suspicious. But I see your point.

[–]DKmann 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

As I've stated in the past, Uber's execs are notoriously stubborn about participating in the political process like other companies industries do. Their refusal to "pay to play" has hurt them more than helped them and shows how obtuse newer technology driven businesses can be. They are not good at dealing with humans. Humans can't be bypassed with good coding.

[–]smokeyj 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Humans can't be bypassed with good coding.

This is only true for Austin. The rest of the world enjoys the great value that U/L provide.

How you were tricked into thinking lobbying is a good thing is beyond me.

Instead of investing their funds engineering the app to comply with Austin laws, they'll use it to expand in growing markets. Way to stick it to 'em guys. Enjoy your spike in DUIs.

[–]justfortrees 10ポイント11ポイント  (10子コメント)

You can bet they will be putting their full weight behind opposing candidates next election cycle. And not just Uber/Lyft, but AirBNB/HomeAway and every other tech company that has been recently f'ed by city council decisions. And they will have a lot more money than the Taxi lobby to do so.

And they're already working with the state senate to go over the city council's heads and bring down the hammer during next years legislative session statewide.

Really, the Mayor and City Council just screwed themselves out of a job along with all the U/L drivers.

[–]amelia_sucks 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

The irony of people calling Lyft and Uber corrupt for taking the issue out of the hands of the bribed politicians and into the hands of the people.

[–]DKmann 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

It should also be noted that the Houston and New York with the fingerprint requirements have Uber Black and Austin doesn't.

Uber Black drivers are already compliant with hack laws because they are professional drivers. In both markets they are a profit driver for Uber, so it softens the blow for the Uber X requirements set forth by those cities.

Trying to make comparison between these markets doesn't work.

[–]BisonST 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

What's stopping Austin from having Uber Black drivers?

[–]Saxasaurus 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The market is probably too small.

[–]maracle6 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have had them in the past. Must not be popular enough. There's always UberLux and UberSelect if you want a nicer ride.

I was in Philadelphia recently and they had UberXL, UberSelect and UberSUV. Plus UberBlack and a wheelchair accessible option. I'm not sure what the difference between UberXL and SUV would be. Uber seems to create different brands and segments to suit each market.

[–]mymisplacedpants 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've gone on and reached out to city council members but I also think there's another way we can organize and that's by letting downtown business owners, music venues, music promoters, and etc. know that in the current state of transportation in this city, it's becoming prohibitive to patronize their businesses. Hopefully that kind of pressure can also push City Council to compromise and work with Uber/Lyft quickly.

[–]price-scot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I posted something similar to this earlier. I bet in a few months, businesses are going to start hating the smaller revenues, and will complain to the city council.

[–]reuterrat 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great article about how the Dallas city officials actually worked with Uber and Lyft to install regulations that benefit everyone and keep ridesharing in their city.

http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/2016/05/why-uber-and-lyft-arent-battling-dallas-like-they-are-austin.html/

“We think we’re in good shape,” said Dallas City Council member Sandy Greyson, who spearheaded a yearlong effort to provide residents with protections that don’t prompt technology companies to leave the city.

Before all sides reached an amicable consensus on how to move forward, Uber and Lyft were operating with no oversight.

"Since then, 30 states and more than 40 cities, which cover a population of more than 200 million Americans, have adopted modern ridesharing regulations,” Uber spokeswoman Debbee Hancock said in a prepared statement this afternoon.

Greyson said Dallas’ regulations have been far less controversial because they were born from several compromises between city officials and individual transportation-for-hire companies. She said the two chief goals were to create rules that largely apply to all transportation companies and to not create unnecessary rules that could run ride-hailing companies out of town.

“We knew that the public really wanted this service,” she said.

Oddly, the streets aren't running red with blood due to the lack of driver fingerprints. Weird.

[–]StayHoly 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Like many Austin Lyft users, I have attempted to make the switch to the GetMe app, both as a rider and as a potential driver.

The result: The app is broken, and their onboarding staff are incompetent and don't appear to have any understanding of how to handle their sudden influx of requests.

My interpretation: Accelerated growth can be frenzied, and (if under-prepared) can sink a budding company. They seem worse off than under-prepared, and I am betting they will not accommodate anyone's needs.

My conjecture: They are a small room full of ill-equipped people with no technical knowledge, who probably hired a group of kids from Pakistan to develop the app (therefor they have no development or support staff in-house).

What do we think?

[–]marty960 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

But Austinites who are apparently fucking geniuses at business and economics told me that this was a great market opportunity for a new start up! We'll have something just as good, if not better, than Uber/Lyft in less than a month!

[–]BackInBlack19 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

They posted on facebook after prop 1 was defeated that the gap in Austin isn't their problem and they would expand as they plan. I think their #1 priority is applying and being approved as a TNC in as many cities as possible in order to get a buyer interested in purchasing the company. There is no money in building a giant network in a single city. It's a ton of upfront costs and a very long return.

[–]shitlurd 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did you see the post about GetMe asking drivers to show up at a parking lot, banking information in hand, to sign up? Emailing without bcc? They're not ready for this business, not by a long shot. Their anonymous CEO should be ashamed.

[–]dreadredJ 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you!!

/u/clutchdude the hero /r/Austin needs!!

[–]mannnix 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

The mod team did not anticipate...

You can start many, many sentences this way

[–]gperlman 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

From what I have read, Austin Police received a total of 6 or 7 sexual assault reports against TNC drivers in 2015. Considering there were likely about 3 million fares that year, is this really a problem the City Council should be even dealing with? For comparison, there were about 6000 DUI arrests in Travis county last year.

[–]TomLikesGuitar 25ポイント26ポイント  (11子コメント)

The people of Austin have spoken.

We all totally want the pristine, safe, government regulated Taxi companies over Uber and Lyft, right?

Who wants those evil corporations here, am I right?

[–]stonySoprano 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, that's basically what this vote boiled down to. Say what you want about the actual details of the original ordinance & prop 1, the average voter read neither. This came down to the narrative of the evil corporations versus our city. It's almost as if the word 'corporation' triggers some Pavlovian response in left-leaning voters. U/L's strategy of pouring money into the campaign played right into this narrative. Ironically, you just replaced one "corporate bully" with another, and the taxi lobbyists thank you.

[–]Iop53 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Especially evil corporations from California!

[–]GENEROUSMILLIONAIRE 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

Who wants those evil corporations here, am I right?

44% of voters, and thats with millions of dollars worth of overt and deliberate deception.

[–]reuterrat 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

44% of 17% of voters, technically

[–]j_win 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Right, 9% of eligible voters decide to reduce the quality of life for a shit load of people to take a stand about "money in politics" where none of the $8m actually went to politicians.

[–]Vooxie 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

Honest question: If the fingerprint background check is so burdensome for Uber/Lyft, and their drivers are all contracted employees, why don't Uber/Lyft pass on the cost to the applicants/contractors/drivers the way that bartenders are responsible for their $25 TABC license?

[–]statcoder 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty sure they do. The issue isn't cost - it's the barriers to entry. Ideally, they would like to have a large pool of part-time drivers - ones that they could recruit to work big events to meet demand. Many people who ride look at the app and say "This looks fun and easy. I think I could do this for a weekend or two and pay for ...." The next question is "What do I have to do to get started?" If it involves the City then it probably won't happen. Look at how many U/L drivers couldn't be bothered to vote.

At some point, if traffic gets too bad (which it certainly will), then the City might start reigning in the number of driver permits they allow or banning tagged ridesharing cars from certain high-traffic areas or neighborhoods. There are all sorts of controls that a city might impose once they can differentiate and regulate U/L cars and drivers from everyone else. I'm sure those companies have heard all of the ways that cities can think of to regulate their business. NYC has blamed U/L cars for increased traffic on their streets.

[–]ThorfinnSk 32ポイント33ポイント  (170子コメント)

I just lost my job and will be moving to Fort Worth this week, so thanks for that Mayor Adler, the city council, and those who voted against!

[–]ScreWaSpinderling 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

I hate this for you. My friend is leaving too. Wish there were some other jobs for you here; but unfortunately, every job in Austin has competition with every job seeker in the entire universe. Good luck out there. Ft Worth is actually pretty cool. Joe T Garcia's....what what!?

[–]homsart 47ポイント48ポイント  (129子コメント)

You can thank uber/lyft. They are the ones that chose to leave.

[–]NeedMoreGovernment 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

If you want to do X, but I force you to do Y first - you are technically still choosing not to do X but Y is the reason your decision making changed.

[–]P4RANO1D 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

Logic is hard for some people. If the city required all Uber/Lyft cars to use wooden wheels built and supplied by the city for a nominal fee, they'd still be free to operate here and would be choosing not to, right?

[–]NeedMoreGovernment 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep, that's the principle.

I've found that if I plug in variables people just obsess over the exact example and dismiss it that way, so I've resorted to simplifying it into Xs and Ys

Edit: Looks like you already got one person doing it. I'm a prophet!

[–]GeoffreyArnold 28ポイント29ポイント  (28子コメント)

It's a good business decision for them to leave. Plus, they explicitly told everyone that they were going to leave if the special interests got the rule passed. So, he should be thanking the Mayor and Council for losing his job. They didn't have to cave into the taxi lobby and unions.

[–]ThorfinnSk 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Businesses do not operate in areas where they find government regulations harmful to their business model.

They chose to leave because it was a good business decision - and they are ethically bound to their stakeholders to make good business decisions.

So many people who DIDN'T just lose their jobs are insisting we blame Uber and Lyft. By and large the drivers do not do so at all.

[–]Iop53 9ポイント10ポイント  (72子コメント)

Why would they stay if it makes little business sense to do so. At least Houston and sa are much bigger and the problem of having enough drivers is not as significant.

[–]pavlovs_log 14ポイント15ポイント  (22子コメント)

They'd have enough drivers if they paid more. Their attrition rate has to be through the roof, otherwise why would they need thousands of new drivers every year?

A lot of drivers do it for a weekend or two and quickly figure out it's not worth the money. Even drivers who have a full-time job and want extra beer money quickly figure out beer isn't worth all the bullshit of driving for such a little return. Reading forums, a lot of drivers downright refuse to drive unless there's a surge because they may actually lose money.

Fingerprinting is easy. People say they want compromise, but the city did compromise. They agreed to open new fingerprinting offices. They agreed to foot the bill for existing drivers. They agreed to give existing drivers a year to get it done. They even said they'd do fingerprinting at job fairs TNCs were at so drivers could sign up to drive and get fingerprinted on the spot so the city even offered up a traveling fingerprint option.

Austin not once had any issue with the core business model of the TNC. There are no limitations on how many drivers they can hire, how many cars can be on the road at once, or limitations on surge pricing so long as it's communicated ahead of time.

I miss Uber and Lyft already, I know taxi companies are shit in the city and I hope they fucking go under. But, they chose to leave. Austin is a very friendly market for them. I'm hopeful another TNC besides get.me starts up soon.

https://arcade.city/

http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/24/juno-the-new-ride-sharing-startup-is-talking-with-investors-about-a-30-million-round/

[–]NeedMoreGovernment 5ポイント6ポイント  (17子コメント)

They'd have enough drivers if they paid more

They'd also have less customers. Higher input costs = higher price = lower quantity demanded.

I see their business model get vilified here all the time, but drivers work for Uber and Lyft voluntarily. Since their decision making reveals their preferences, when you take away Uber and Lyft you are relegating them to something worse.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/4ifj18/is_austin_better_for_voting_no_to_prop_1/d2xw639

Fingerprinting is easy.

Its tedious, but honestly who cares. It's flat out unnecessary, and there is no evidence that people who don't pass Uber's check are actually more likely to follow through with an assault on a random passenger. If there was, it would have been plastered all ever each one of the five hundred threads on this topic already.

[–]avalonimagus 12ポイント13ポイント  (16子コメント)

business model get vilified here all the time

That's because their business model is Dumping and really shitty. We haven't seen the worst of it yet:

1) Attract drivers with impossibly-good incentives

2) Enter the market, offering heavily-subsidized rides

3) Put competitors out of business

4) Stay on top by keeping prices low, but lowering the drivers' cut.

5) Once competition has been thoroughly squashed, start raising prices for customers, keeping driver pay constant.

.

drivers work for Uber and Lyft voluntarily

So are payday loans. They're still predatory and shitty, costing people in ways they don't anticipate (high interest rates and perpetual debt for payday loans, increasing maintenance costs and lack of workers comp/other workers protections for uber/lyfters)

It's flat out unnecessary

If Uber and Lyft are going to be providing a service that will eventually be ubiquitious and the equivalent of a public utility, then someone besides them should be making sure shit doesn't get terrible. Hence why we have food inspectors, the FCC, the FEC, etc.

[–]Frantic_Mantid 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Right- people just don't get that desperate people do all kinds of shitty things to make ends meet. Like payday loans or mary kay cosmetics or even less desirable things.

The fact that people voluntarily get involved in no way means the practice is a good deal for them!

[–]captainant 3ポイント4ポイント  (12子コメント)

We have food inspectors, the FCC, FEC, etc because there has been a demonstrated NEED for oversight because those industries were not able keep shit together by themselves. U/L have not had some spike in crimes or assaults by their drivers and their PRE-EXISTING NATIONAL BACKGROUND CHECKS have been more than adequate for rider safety.

[–]NeedMoreGovernment 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Once competition has been thoroughly squashed, start raising prices for customers

You implicitly already acknowledged why this theory doesn't work - they can't raise price when competition still exists. Lyft, Uber, Arcade City, Wings, or GetMenwill just undercut them if Uber ever tried this.

increasing maintenance costs and lack of workers comp

People have different preferences. What seems exploitative to you is a saving grace for others; it's a matter of perspective because we aren't all at the same place in life. I invite you to reread this comment:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/4ifj18/is_austin_better_for_voting_no_to_prop_1/d2xw6

someone besides them should be making sure shit doesn't get terrible

Consumers.

When a business fucks up, consumer choice will punish it more swiftly and viciously than any law.

[–]Iop53 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

But the goal is to minimize costs. Paying drivers more isn't the best idea from a business point of view. Ul can get away with paying them low-moderate wages so they will.

Fingerprinting, easy or not, still makes it harder to drive for uber. U and l both found that the change would make their business in Austin not worthwhile. if city of Austin didn't have an issue with the business model then its actions still constitute an issue with the business model.

[–]pavlovs_log 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

The goal wasn't to minimize costs. Uber and Lyft were really popular before they slashed costs at the sole expense of their drivers. When they slashed prices they never slashed the percentage of the fare they were taking. They never subsidized the drivers. All those cuts were 100% from the driver's pocket.

That is why each time you used a TNC the past few months you always got a brand new driver who "just started". That is why when TNCs first started in Austin they were high quality local people who drove nice clean cars, spoke English, and were happy to give you a bottle of water. My TNC drivers started reminding me of cab drivers recently.

Their business model was unsustainable with our without fingerprinting. Sooner or later the driver pool dries up, and I think it'd have been sooner.

[–]avalonimagus 9ポイント10ポイント  (36子コメント)

For one, they could've given their "contractors" more than 2 days notice. That's abhorrent behavior, and an indicator of how they would approach business decisions that continue to impact larger and large swaths of people. One day Uber/lyft will be "too big to fail" and cities/states could grind to a halt at their tantrums. I'd rather start trying to regulate them early than wait until they already have us by the throat.

[–]KokoBWareHOF 10ポイント11ポイント  (23子コメント)

They told the city a while ago they would pull out if they were voted down--this idea is simply untrue.

[–]avalonimagus 6ポイント7ポイント  (22子コメント)

Honest question: did they say it'd be the next business day? Because they didn't need to comply with the regs until, what, 2017?

[–]captainant 10ポイント11ポイント  (12子コメント)

They actually needed to be 25% compliant by May 1, 50% by Aug 1, 75% by Dec 1, and 99% by Feb 1, 2017.

[–]avalonimagus 3ポイント4ポイント  (11子コメント)

Did not know that. Regardless, they could've given their drivers 2 weeks notice. That's a fairly accepted practice given the ramifications. I'd give my employer that notice and hope they'd return the favor if they could (which uber could).

[–]captainant 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

The thing of it is, U/L drivers are not employees - they're contractors. They are on no schedule. If you decide to stop driving you don't need to give U/L any notice, you just stop doing it. That goes both ways.

EDIT: not to say it isn't a bummer for drivers in ATX, but U/L have zero obligation to give 2 weeks notice.

[–]avalonimagus 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's one of my big qualms with their business model, and the whole idea of treating employees as contractors. Uber/Lyft didn't invent the concept, but making everyone contractors just seems like the perfect next step in continuing to divide and disempower workers so they can treat them as poorly as is profitable.

[–]Murft 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Have you ever worked somewhere with layoffs? They don't even give employees two weeks much less a contractor. This happened to some contractors I worked with just last summer.

[–]KokoBWareHOF 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jesus Christ, businesses don't give two weeks notice, workers do. I don't think you understand labor.

[–]ThorfinnSk 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

They could NOT have given us 2 weeks notice. The regulation is in effect right now. If they had given us 2 weeks notice, the companies would have been operating ILLEGALLY for 2 weeks.

[–]KokoBWareHOF 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

Every driver I've had in the last month has known about the vote and what it meant to their future. Some even had pro prop 1 stickers on their cars. The idea that they simply gave 2 days notice because they sent the email out Saturday after the vote is a completely false narrative.

[–]DKmann 8ポイント9ポイント  (11子コメント)

As for "grind to a halt" I guarantee no other city is going to push Uber/Lyft after this. Nobody thought they'd leave. Everyone thought they'd take their medicine and keep doing business. Well, they weren't bluffing and it has pissed a lot of people off.

El Paso removed their agenda item on Uber after seeing what happened in Austin. To appease the local taxi companies they are going to hold a town hall style meeting.

What Uber did worked.

[–]Iop53 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought they would leave. Austin isn't a big market anyway and as a "tech hub" it's a great place to stage a war of ideas

[–]avalonimagus 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

I don't doubt that it worked. Predatory lending works. Shelling off subprime mortgages worked. These are still shitty practices by shady corporations that imply they need as much oversight as the public is willing to push for.

[–]captainant 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

I've seen you compare U/L to predatory lending. I categorically disagree with this comparison. Once you start using U/L, you are not locked into continuing to use it. U/L does not disqualify its drivers from driving with other services or holding other jobs, it doesn't make any demands on your time. U/L are simply giving the option of using their service. Absolutely zero obligation for ongoing transactions if either party doesn't want to.

[–]mannnix -1ポイント0ポイント  (19子コメント)

Nope, Austin voters chose to kill their business model, thus kicking them out.

[–]defroach84 4ポイント5ポイント  (16子コメント)

They can operate right now just as they did last week.

[–]rd4 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except 25% of their driver-hours (or driver-miles) needed to be fingerprint verified (along with all the data for the city to calculate this) over a week ago (May 1, 2016) in order to be compliant, or else face penalties that are yet to be defined but nevertheless enforceable in the future.

[–]NeedMoreGovernment 9ポイント10ポイント  (10子コメント)

Not gonna invest a closing market when they're already running at a loss.

[–]pavlovs_log 17ポイント18ポイント  (2子コメント)

Funny, I got an email from Lyft saying they can not pick up or drop off in Austin. They made it sound like their hands were tied and it was a legal thing. I don't think it's a legal thing at all, and the reality of the matter is they're "punishing" Austin.

[–]Murft 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Eh it's sorta legal. They haven't complied with the 25% fingerprint by May 1st but at the same time I have no idea how they would punish them if they kept operating.

[–]lhtaylor00 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah the whole response from Lyft and Uber has been reminiscent of how divorced parents play the kid off one another: "Billy, I'm sorry I can't see you this weekend. Your mother won't let me live in the house anymore. Sure wish I could see you. Bye."

[–]ThorfinnSk 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They absolutely can't. The regulations now in effect require driver training - which is not specified in the ordinance AND an additional inspection - which also is not specified in the ordinance. The regulation as written is total garbage.

[–]avalonimagus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

When you say business model, do you mean Dumping?:

1) Attract drivers with impossibly-good incentives 2) Enter the market, offering heavily-subsidized rides 3) Put competitors out of business 4) Stay on top by keeping prices low, but lowering the drivers' cut. 5) Once competition has been thoroughly squashed, start raising prices for customers, keeping driver pay constant.

[–]Tom_Pain 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm old. I've seen what happens every single time the Democrats claim that their latest newfangled regulation won't cost any jobs, and then it costs a bunch of people their jobs.

The victims don't just vote against them in the next election. They campaign, contribute, volunteer, and even run against the politicians that fucked them over. This isn't just having a differing political opinion. They're out for revenge.

[–]carpe_deez 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

The people have spoken and the market reacts. Democracy and economics are a bitch.

[–]amelia_sucks 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

"The people have spoken" is not an acceptable way to dismiss everyone. If Jesusville, TX voted to make Abortion and Gay Marriage illegal, higher legal powers would step in and tell them to knock that shit off. And we would not claim that that higher authority "must not care about democracy" like I've seen some people saying in other threads. We can't make over reaching laws and shrug it off with "well, majority (of the minority that votes) rules." Especially when some of those people voted based not on the merits, but on Uber and Lyft running a really fucking annoying campaign.

[–]Galts_and_Joads 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I upvoted this anyway but I wish I could upvote again just for 'Jesusville, TX'

[–]Galts_and_Joads 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, if by 'the people' you mean 17% voter turnout to vote on a ballot with the most confusing language possible. Older people who don't use taxis or ridesharing tipped this election voting on something that absolutely has nothing to do with them because they don't understand it. People were so intellectually lazy on this issue, once the 'money in politics' angle was out there it's like they were blind to the rest of it - blind to the taxi companies donating to city council, blind to the fact that the regulations city council were proposing didn't make sense, blind to the fact that Uber and Lyft never actually contributed to politics and that all their money was spent on trying to sway the voters, blind to the fact that women's very real and valid fear of being assaulted trying to get home from the bars at night were exploited as a cheap talking point by the 'NO' side even though women wouldn't have been any safer, blind to the fact that 10,000+ people who earn or at least supplement their livelihoods as drivers would be caught in the crossfire.

[–]kresss 0ポイント1ポイント  (24子コメント)

Lyft and Uber are 100% allowed to operate in Austin. Nobody forced them out.

[–]Galts_and_Joads 24ポイント25ポイント  (22子コメント)

Just like abortion providers. TX legislature made 'burdensome' regulations that were for 'safety' and a bunch of abortion clinics whined that they aren't hospitals so they shouldn't have to meet the same requirements as hospitals. They claimed they had to shut down rather than work with the govt, who knows what's best, to find a way to meet the new requirements and keep providing valuable health services for women. It isn't the TX Lege's fault if women can't find access to these arguably important and helpful services, amirite? Nobody forced them out.

[–]KokoBWareHOF 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hope this gets upvoted to infinity.

[–]margar3t 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you! I was drawing on some of the similarities between control of the TNCs and control of abortions re: "safety" legistlature, but I wasn't quite able to draw the lines. Some of your posts have clarified the analogy for me, and it's clear as day now.

[–]P4RANO1D 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm totally allowed to drive my car too, I just have to pay insurance, inspection and registration.

[–]GodIsReal87 3ポイント4ポイント  (14子コメント)

I think one of the biggest downfalls with these TNC companies is their pricing wars which have resulted in drivers like me who have lost all respect and sympathy for these companies and rejoice when bad things happen to them.

I just don't see why a driver can't earn at least $7-$10 per ride. It would really change the morale and dynamic altogether.

So I wanted to ask, would it be crazy if every ride cost you a minimum of $10, as opposed to $5? I think it makes a much bigger difference for the driver than it does for you. Drivers drive all day and it is their income, where as passengers might use TNC companies once or twice a day at most. So it's a relatively small impact on you while being a huge impact on drivers.

Would a minimum fare being $10 vs. $5 really stop you from using the service?

If a driver does 20 rides in a day, all short (min fare) distances, and makes $8 after commission, they make $160 for the day. If the min fare was $5, and subsequently they make approx $4 after commission, that's $80/day. Now the problem is since drivers are not employees and take on all the liability and cost of business, there are FIXED costs that they have no control over. Gas, insurance, wear and tear on tires/brakes/shocks, car washes, just to name the main costs.

With those fixed costs in mind, you begin to realize the extra $5 which is 100% more than $5, makes a 100% difference in the bottom line of the driver, and the service becomes fun, relaxed, and enjoyable for everyone, rather than just a good deal for the TNC companies and the passengers.

I believe driver treatment is the real reason why Prop 1 failed.

[–]SteedCodhansel 0ポイント1ポイント  (12子コメント)

Don't like it, don't do it. That free market capitalism...that's dying in this country, this country racing to be England or worse yet, Venezuela. You want government to control everything? I thought this town had some identity and some balls? What's with everyone passing the buck and wanting elected officials to take care of them and make decisions for them? Serious question.

[–]PiratePharmD 10ポイント11ポイント  (11子コメント)

Ok Austin people, seems like everyone is upset about the results of Prop 1, whether you voted for or against it for whatever reasons you had.

Time to take steps to fix it.

Go here to find your District: http://www.austintexas.gov/government

From there, use the form to contact their staff with constructive ideas or suggestions.

Here's what I sent to the District 8 office:

Subject: Prop 1: next steps Message:

Howdy,

This whole Prop 1 business was an awful mix of City over regulation and Uber/Lyft refusing to negotiate and acting like petulant children. Nobody won and everyone in Austin lost. It's time for us to bring them back to the negotiating table, or at least one of them.

How about making fingerprinting voluntary, but having a financial penalty if a driver is convicted of a crime and later found to have a history of criminal activity that would have been caught on a fingerprint check?

In return for that, Uber/Lyft agrees not to stop in the middle of the street and to go through CoA regarding airport business.

Seems like a fair compromise to me.

[–]price-scot 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Or, how about the city adds more permits, and CoA approves drivers more quickly. This shows cab drivers dont want more competition at all. They arent in it to help the citys population (this was a talking point for NO voters).

[–]PiratePharmD 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Increasing the number of permits and decreasing the barrier to entry for other cab services to come into the Austin market should help foster competition and innovation. I like it. Taxis in Austin are horrible, but they're not horrible everywhere. It would be nice to allow better businesses in.

[–]reuterrat 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

FYI, District 8 City Council member Ellen Troxclair voted against these regulations every time. She also voted IN FAVOR of Adler's proposed voluntary fingerprinting compromise that the rest of the council voted against.

[–]TomLikesGuitar 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

Sigh... don't send an email to your city council with the word "howdy" as an opener if you want to be taken seriously.

If you have an idea, concentrate 100% on establishing it using a professional tone (no insults or jokes) and using concrete ideas. Otherwise it's just going to get ignored.

Edit: Otherwise I totally agree. Definitely send them an email. Just try to avoid colloquialisms and other less-professional speech as I know personally that it will be taken WAY less seriously.

[–]PiratePharmD 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

We live in Texas. Howdy and y'all are acceptable. I also received a nice reply from the Chief of Staff for District 8 a few hours after emailing him. Glad to hear you like the idea though.

Edit: spelling of one word

[–]TomLikesGuitar 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Fair enough. It's just off-putting to me (and most of the people I work with) when someone I don't know emails me informally. I would say that 90% of the time that person starts off with a huge disadvantage.

It definitely works to your advantage with some people though I guess.

[–]PiratePharmD 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It can be beneficial if you're an Aggie reaching out to an Aggie, especially through Texas A&M's Aggie Network. All depends on who your audience is.

[–]DKmann 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, the more personalized and unique your communication with an elected official is, the more likely it will be taken seriously. You have no idea how many cut and paste form letters they get in a day. Staff often suspects that these form letters aren't actually coming from individuals, but are coming from a bot that crawls through email form pages. When they come across an email that reads like a normal person wrote it, they take note.

[–]KaiserUDM 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

IIRC that's was the compromise that happened in San Antonio. Drivers can get fingerprinted if they want and the user gets to see who opted out or in to the fingerprinting.

[–]Walkingfred 10ポイント11ポイント  (23子コメント)

Hasn't Uber and Lyft's big argument against abiding by the same rules and regulations as taxi companies been that they are not taxis? I would have agreed with that argument, and did, but reading about GM's investment in Lyft has me feeling resentful that I ever supported that argument:

“G.M. will also work with Lyft to set up a series of short-term car rental hubs across the United States, places where people who do not own cars can pick up a vehicle and drive for Lyft to earn money.” -- http://www.salon.com/2016/01/16/uber_and_lyfts_big_new_lie_their_excuse_for_avoiding_regulation_is_finally_falling_apart/

That is precisely what a taxi company does! Now I realize that article references Lyft and it's future plans so I decided to look in to it more, and you know what? It appears this is already a thing for Uber --https://get.uber.com/cl/enterprise/

I can easily compare this to breaking up with someone: sometimes both people really care and appreciate each other but they want different things. I'm mature enough to see that the regulations Austin is putting on Uber and Lyft do not match up with what Uber and Lyft want, so they decided to leave, but why act like a petulant child while you're walking out? It's embarrassing.

I'll add in that I used Uber every day during the week to get to and from work after my transmission started failing. This directly affects me but that doesn't mean that it's right.

[–]KokoBWareHOF 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

They're businesses, not humans. They're going to do what's best for their models. As a liberal, I love how ultra progressives argue that businesses are not humans in court cases, legislation, etc (which I agree with), but then compare them to humans in instances like this.

This whole debacle has made me question just how smart the voters in this city are. I can't remember a time when I've disagreed more with the people who usually support my political views.

[–]Setreal 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm with you on that. It's really turned me off from the local democratic establishment that I normally support. I'm tempted to donate to the republican state rep from Cedar Park who wants to fix this in the next state legislative session. What is the world coming to?

[–]Iop53 4ポイント5ポイント  (19子コメント)

why act like a petulant child

As opposed to the opposition that spammed social media with vituperative messages and upvoted Reddit comments like "fuck uber" and took spiteful joy in the companies leaving

[–]reuterrat 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

"bye felicia" was posted about 100 times by the reddit no-vote side.

Funny thing is, a lot of those people who were posting that spent a lot of time on reddit trying to convince everyone that there was "no way Uber would leave Austin". Disingenuous is putting it lightly.

[–]kanyeguisada 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

why act like a petulant child

As opposed to the opposition that spammed social media with vituperative messages and upvoted Reddit comments like "fuck uber" and took spiteful joy in the companies leaving

"spammed social media" lol. I guess you somehow missed the blitzkrieg of prop1 supporters full of venom and insults and misinformation and lies - which unlike our "spam" was literal spam paid for with millions of dollars and was WAY more overbearing than what I saw from the No side.

[–]KokoBWareHOF 10ポイント11ポイント  (13子コメント)

"HERBY DEBRY" "BIG BUSINESS" "CORPORATE SHILLS" "DRINK LESS" "BE MORE RESPONSIBLE" "DON'T BOSS OUR CITY AROUND"

[–]price-scot 9ポイント10ポイント  (11子コメント)

Now if people really want Uber/Lyft to come back, they would get together, and boycott going out. This would in turn hurt businesses that relied on people using Uber/Lyft. Then you would surely see those businesses fighting to get Uber/Lyft back.

[–]KokoBWareHOF 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

I am planning on going out much less and am totally for doing just this. I spoke to a couple business owners off South Lamar yesterday who are in fear of the lost revenue.

[–]reuterrat 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Same, wife and I will likely stick to neighborhood bars and restaurants rather than trying to go downtown or really anywhere south of Ben White

[–]KokoBWareHOF 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same here...social life will suffer, but I guess the one positive is I will be saving money.

In addition to the owner of a bar on South Lamar yesterday, I talked to a business owner on the east side who often has clients fly in for medical treatment. She's also very concerned about how this will impact people getting from the airport or their hotels to her.

[–]WholeWhiteBread 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

This right here. My girlfriend and I take uber out to dinner/drinks 3-4 times a week. Now we will be eating in those nights. The real losers here are local business owners.

[–]price-scot 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

It is terrible it has to come to this, but money talks. When these local businesses start feeling the hurt, Im sure that the city council is going to look even worse than they already do.

[–]WholeWhiteBread 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is unfortunate but now even if we decide to go out to dinner we won't be drinking. Income lost no matter what.

[–]threedb 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

You think? I wonder what will really change. Maybe just an increase in alcohol related traffic violations and deaths?

[–]uluman 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Now I want a campaign sign that just says "HERBY DERBY"

[–]openist 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is a terrible decision, this is the most important issue to happen in Austin in many years and people NEED to be able to discuss and organize around it.

Please reconsider your decision.

[–]ClutchDude[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

We believe centralizing and containing the discussion here is a better approach than dozens of rehashed threads that essentially restate the same points. Austin is more than tncs - prop 1 is a significant issue but not the only issue we have going on.

We'll revisit the it later this week and see if we need to look at different approaches.

[–]netralitov 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

Women usually can't work these jobs because it's the passengers that are the unsafe ones. Should we be fingerprinting people before they're allowed to ride?

[–]rd4 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

This is a great point! I think the drivers can actually rate the passengers as well, but we don't get to see those ratings, hah :)

[–]tttigre 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes, as a driver you do get to see those ratings...?

[–]JustColossus 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Mods: could I kindly suggest adding a link to the Ordinance relevant to prop 1 in the sticky? Maybe it would prevent some of the misinformation I've seen posted here & elsewhere (for example: prop 1 is "just about fingerprinting") and hopefully encourage more informed debate. Just a suggestion. :)

ordinance 20160217-001 http://arstechnica.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/prop1.pdf

[–]rd4 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Excellent idea! I would like to add a link to the original, now-in-place Ordinance No. 20151217-075 as well... also it's a bit more official, since it's austintexas.gov.

Copy/Paste friendly link: http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm%3Fid=245769

[–]P4RANO1D 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

As local government tends to do, the City of Austin has been leaning more toward the revenue generation side than the competent management side of a lot of public concerns that could be a benefit to the citizens rather than a choke hold on their wallets. With this recent vote outcome, it's painfully obvious through sketchy ballot language and catering to the taxi lobby that they don't truly care about public safety or public concerns when something threatens their revenue plans. This morning, the news listed a lot of the ride sharing "alternatives", which brought a few more of these things into light, but I couldn't help but wonder just how much and on how many levels Lyft and Uber are affecting City of Austin profits. I thought it might be fun to build a list:

  1. Taxi monoply
  2. DWI revenue (inflated fines, lawyers, DPS surcharges, 3rd parties [interlock devices], bail bondsmen, etc.)
  3. Opportunistic fines and arrests like DPS surcharge lapses and suspended licenses.
  4. Ongoing plan to institute plate scanners for on-the-road warrant payments (for all things not just stolen cars).
  5. Homegrown ridesharing companies willing to cave to regs (GetMe)
  6. Car2Go/Public transit

What else?

[–]kresss 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

Here is the message Lyft sent to drivers last night. Please lie for us! Thank you! We'll pay you $4/hour if you play along!!

[–]susanasanjuan 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

where does it say lie for them? what the fuck are you talking about with $4/hour?

[–]kresss 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

the "I'm sorry, but local regulations don't let Lyft operate in Austin." is the lie I was referencing, the $4/hour part is me exaggerating the numerous hours i made like $7 or $8 an hour i made during my time with Lyft.

[–]uluman 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wait, why don't they want you dropping people off in Austin? I thought they can do dropoffs now but not pickups within the city limits.

[–]kresss 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

i don't know! there is nothing prohibiting them from dropping people up in the city (or picking them up for that matter). This is entirely a decision on Lyft's part that they are trying to blame on the city, and the voting population who rejected their measure.

[–]ninjacoco 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a dishonest load of crap.

Lyft was not forced to leave. They left on their own volition because they didn't like the regulatory conditions Austin set up for them. Period.

When is Lyft going to be honest about what they're doing here?

[–]AndrewNaranja 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ridesharing Works for Austin would gladly swarm roads and highways with their signs in favor of Prop 1, yet they still have to clean after themselves now that the election is over. I still see these signs and I frankly find this ironic on how these companies don't give a shit about the city.

[–]statcoder 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

How do you expect them to get the signs? Ridesharing does not work for Austin anymore.

[–]mannnix 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

This debacle will go down in history as that time the Austin voters really fucked up.

[–]maxreverb 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, that was the 2000 rail vote. Voters did the right thing here.

[–]dudeman707 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fuck Ann Kitchen and the rest of her shitty council buddies