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Professor of anthropology David Graeber talks about 'millions and millions of people who feel their jobs shouldn't exist'. (youtube.com)

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[–]tapharoot 81ポイント82ポイント  (42子コメント)

I would probably pay at least double the current taxes if we just paid useless people to fuck off (AKA basic income). Half my coworkers do maybe 10% of the work collectively, but stir up 90% of the shitshow that is office politics.

[–]dooit 16ポイント17ポイント  (10子コメント)

As we automated everything the work week should've shrunk. I have just finished automating many of our processes here at work and there is maybe 30 hours of work to do now. We have 2 full-time staff and 1 person at 20 hours a week doing the same job now. I'm going part time in September so I can get a real career that can't be automated or outsourced.

[–]Kysis 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

Good luck finding a career that can't be automated or outsourced.

[–]BioSemantics 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Rather than shrinking the work week, they simply pay less and reduce staff with the added efficiency that technology brings. This ideal world where we only have to work enough to keep everything running is bullshit when you consider corporations run the show.

[–]hefnetefne [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Right, the benefit of added efficiency that automation brings is absorbed by the higher-ups.

[–]wisdom_and_frivolity2 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

The work week and hours/week didn't drop because private companies have that control and their goal is maximized productivity. If you introduce computers to do things like build reports, collect data, etc that takes the jobs of 10 people; you don't just fire those people, you get them doing other things instead. now you have double productivity for the same payroll. It wouldn't make sense for a business to start lowering the hourly requirements. It would require outside intervention like the government lowering the full time and overtime numbers.

[–]UnhWut [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But then you don't need those people's skillsets I'd think. You'd be better off firing them and hiring new people with skillsets in what you want to expand on, or just firing them in order to maximize efficiency.

It doesn't sound like they're making the company mute productive, otherwise he wouldn't say there's only x amount of hours a week to do.

[–]Tractor_Pete 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

The idea behind basic income (As popularized by Milton Friedman) was to pay for it using the funding for already existing social welfare programs. Whether you like the idea or not, it is true that if you take the funding for those organizations and divide it by the population, you have more than enough money for a UBI.

(maybe I misunderstood you saying you would pay >=2x current taxes, but I'm saying you probably wouldn't need to)

[–]bean829 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Friedman proposed a Negative Income Tax, not a Basic Income.

[–]Tractor_Pete 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh yeah, my bad.

[–]UnhWut [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It says negative income taxes can implement a basic income system though.

[–]tapharoot 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not American so I don't know if the numbers would be the same. I think a lot of the social programs in my country would still be useful so I wouldn't want to see them ended.

[–]Zykithrix 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

Just need to wait for the older generation to die.

[–]tapharoot 22ポイント23ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's not age. Everyone I work with is less than 30 years old. The most useless are probably some of the youngest and most arrogant.

[–]CreepyUncle 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

aside from being anecdotal (meaning some see it all in very different ways with very different outtakes on it, and from very different distances from it) - it's certainly industry related. or more so, which department of which industry you're hailing from. some are practically designed to lie dormant for instances when they are needed, and some corporations cling to old biz models that have practically negated that 'off chance' these people will ever be needed - thanks to technological advances. unfortunately for these people, their jobs are not made redundant, so they sit their consciously or subconsciously wondering wtf they're doing.

[–]shane727 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ah yes I want to strive for more instead of just putting my head down and doing whatever I'm told making shit money...o and I'm under 30 sooo to you I'm automatically arrogant. Sorry that I know that my parents had it easy got to leave high school and find a job that appreciated them meanwhile I had to go to college and am in huge debt and still making no progress. Sorry my great senior I should just listen to you and be grateful that you mercifully hired me for a job I'm over qualified for and are paying me $10 bucks an hour sorry o so sorry.

[–]miXXed [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well it's not my generation that led education slip into the depth it is now. We were to young to have that power.

[–]jjBregsit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

oh fuck off.

[–]aletoledo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would pay to have government employees stay home as well.

[–]linkns86 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Where do you work? Generally if a company isn't efficient it fails.

[–]Tramm [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm dealing with the same shit at work.

Just had a guy pull 165 hours in a 2 week period milking the clock. While I busted my ass doing the same job and clocked in at 105.

They spend the first hour of work drinking coffee and shooting the shit with the company's fleet mechanics, roll over to the office about 9:30 and then hang out for about an hour in their supervisor's office just goofing off and talking, then they get about an hour of work in from 10:30-11:30 then break for lunch, which is supposed to be 30 minutes on property or an hour off the clock if they go elsewhere. They stay clocked in, and go out to eat for an hour. Then it's back to the offices to talk to the supervisor some more and they cap the day off with a half-assed 3 hour attempt at work, then roll out 4:30 on the dot. And if they have an event they need to be back for, they stay clocked in, go home, come back work the event, then clock out before calling it a day.

But he's been there 16 years... so it's ok.

[–]andrewjs42 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't your taxes must be low

[–]Listento_DimmuBorgir -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

If we get rid of all the bureaucrats, bloat, and corruption that is currently in the social services. And just gave people a basic income directly. You would probably end up paying less in taxes.

[–]mrtoxic6003 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You've been sipping on lean for too long

[–]CORRU9T 30ポイント31ポイント  (8子コメント)

A great follow up video is done by CGP Grey, this is the video that convinced me that we should transition to a basic income model. Which I am glad my country (Canada) is starting a pilot program to try it out!

[–]Zykithrix 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Basic income means basic dependency. Think of all the admin jobs basic income would create!

Just being flippant. I think basic income is a good start.

[–]Sniksder16 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Every time I see some guy come along and talk about useless jobs I feel like they just watched this video and want to take credit for it. CGP does a great job covering it.

[–]Banh_mi 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

FYI Google the Gimli experiment in the 70's. Already done, great success, never followed up. (If not Gimli, somewhere in Manitoba)

[–]iateone2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Basic Income Subreddit FAQ are also very well done. Personally I support a Universal Dividend tied to some sort of productivity index instead of a basic income, because it could start lower and as our society advances and becomes more productive could go higher.

[–]alligate 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

thanks for sharing that link, watched the whole thing. Fascinating, if not a little worrying...

[–]AttackOfTheThumbs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Which I am glad my country (Canada) is starting a pilot program to try it out!

I'm in Canada. Tell me more, or link something? I'm super for this as I am looking at a career of creating automation.

[–]tomsawyeee 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way...

[–]polarbear_15 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The time is gone, the song is over, Thought I'd something more to say.

[–]jlnslv 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

Switzerland is actually voting on basic income on June 5th. I think I'll vote yes!

[–]LNGLY 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

you rich bastards

[–]Eldona 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

but everyone know the initiative will fail. I predict around 20% Yes votes.

[–]Im_A_Manly_Man 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The fact that I have to suck the Swiss consul's balls just to be considered for a visa makes it easier for you guys to make that decision.

[–]AniMeu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I will vote yes as well my friend.

[–]OnePonders 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think this is a good thing. Hopefully the UK adopts it.

[–]Space_Cadet_1983 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

that was surprisingly not bad

[–]boot20 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's ironic that in a few hundred years people will look back and think, were we really having this discussion, regardless of how the pendulum swings.

[–]Zykithrix 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah it is a generational wave for sure. You think it will happen before the idealists get substantial stock portfolios?

[–]iateone2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Thomas Paine, American patriot and writer of Common Sense, proposed some sort of basic income for England back in 1796. Everyone who reached the age of 21 would get a lump sum of a year's pay, and then everyone who reached the age of 50 would get half a year's pay for the rest of their life. This was to be paid for through inheritance taxes.

Agrarian Justice

The argument is that people used to have the right to go off into the wilderness and live off the land, on their own wits. Now that all the land is owned by people and you basically can't strike off on your own and live in the wild anymore, and the land has been made much more productive, those who own the land and get the benefits owe the rest of us the freedom that has been taken from us through their ownership.

[–]FreedomDatAss 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

Well give it a bit longer and technology will take care of it.

[–]ColoniseMars 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

Thats what we said 50 years ago too. Yet here we are.

[–]dancingapple [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And 50 years ago women more often stayed home as housewives. So even with all this technology that's supposed to make things easier many families are working basically double the hours.

[–]FreedomDatAss -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well there's roughly 3.5 million truck drivers in the US alone. What happens when we automate 95% of their drive with a computer/cameras/sensors? Its not a question of will it happen but when.

[–]ColoniseMars 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

That was not really my point though. All this inevitable automation will just lead to more pointless jobs. It won't fix the problem of the underlying inability of the current economic system to deal with the arising issue of mass unemployment and growing wealth disparity.

[–]FreedomDatAss 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Misunderstood ya. Yeah you make a good point, it will be interesting to see how countries address this issue. Hopefully starting sooner and not later.

[–]throwawaytodayandfor 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

unions man, unions.

[–]FreedomDatAss 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What happens if unions get automated? /s

[–]Zykithrix 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I call this perception: The man with the red button.

The idea is that technology will insulate us from hardship to the point where an elected official can't push a red button that destroys us all, even if we want him to.

[–]eradicati0nx 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Does anyone have a reference for the Dostoevsky quote about moving rocks back and forth in a Prison camp?

[–]Gandibober 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I suppose that he was talking about an abstract from the beginning of the First Impressions chapter from The House of the Dead as several people here already mentioned. Here is the phrase.

In Russian:
Но если б заставить его, например, переливать воду из одного ушата в другой, а из другого в первый, толочь песок, перетаскивать кучу земли с одного места на другое и обратно, - я думаю, арестант удавился бы через несколько дней или наделал бы тысячу преступлений, чтоб хоть умереть, да выйти из такого унижения, стыда и муки.

In English:
But let him be constrained to pour water from one vessel into another, or to transport a quantity of earth from one place to another, in order to perform the contrary operation immediately afterwards, then I am persuaded that at the end of a few days the prisoner would strangle himself or commit a thousand crimes, punishable with death, rather than live in such an abject condition and endure such torments.

[–]tapharoot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

All I found in the google was your comment so... Get to your library and check out all the Dostoyevsky books.

[–]How_To_Seb 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Although 'The House of the Dead' is about prison life, I don't think it's from there.

Most probably it would be in his Letters. In some of these, he talks about the boredom that workers experience. Very few of the Letters are published online though and I can't find that specific quote.

[–]ItLiesInTheProles 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like 80% sure it's from Dostoevsky's "The House of the Dead."

[–]wantpixies [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If we can somehow convince the corporations to keep on paying the parasites but in the form of basic income rather than payroll...

The market failure here is definitely something to be studied.

[–]AttackOfTheThumbs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That first sub heading though... Prison for hugging his grand daughter, shit is bonkers.

I am super for automation. A lot of currently employed people are useless and spend hours a day getting paid to do nothing. Time and time again we have seen that a reduction in the work week actually increases productivity, yet some people believe every job needs to be 9-5.

[–]gearsolid [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

put your anti-socialism glasses before reading any comment.

[–]HardcorePhonography [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm on mobile with a shitty small screen; is it the lighting that makes the economist being interviewed look like he has gold teeth?

[–]godless_communism [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This makes me feel a lot better about being fucking unemployed.

[–]Positronix -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

"If we just pay everyone, there will be less parasites than we have now"

l o l

[–]phweefwee 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

I think this is true for the most part.

If you think about it, greed tends to come from a lack of resources. If everyone had means to acquire a resource, then people would tend to be less greedy. No one hogs air because everyone has, by and large, the same ability to acquire the necessary amount. But take water, not everyone can acquire water so easily, so we see people hogging it and selling it for price mark ups even though it is essential for life.

I think it makes sense, but whether it's actually correct or not is a different question.

[–]bhlohk [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

I've been fortunate enough to have some conversations with those that sit in the camp that a basic income is "ill-moral" or-what-have-you. It comes from a place that everyone needs to produce a good or service that is to be bought from another person. The idea that you can't have an economy based on Art or Poetry.

In reality, not everyone produces a quantifable good or service so the argument falls apart quickly.

Here in America there is a strong belief of self-reliance and making your own life. The idea of "Earn your keep". American is heavily rooted in autonomy, even to a fault. I think Basic Income will see more traction in countries that already solve problems through taxation.

Whenever I see people like /u/positronix, I can't help but think of the "pull yourself up by your boot-straps" and you have to "earn your way like my daddy did" line of thinking. Not to say there isn't anything wrong about their point of view, but they are mostly incapable of having a productive conversation about the topic simply because of their believies.

I dunno why I decided to respond to you. You seem like a reasonable person willing to have a conversation about frontier ideology.

Sorry for the long response.

[–]theoncomingnoob [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I dunno man, what you said about not everyone producing a quantifiable good or service, I think that that only happens due to systemic failures either through education or distribution of wealth and therefore, unfortunately, opportunities.

[–]black_dynamite4991 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Even then, why is it necessary that everyone has to? We (Western Society) already accept that the elderly and young are not required to, is it really that big of a leap to accept everyone else doesn't have to produce a good or service. The people with the knowledge and drive would still produce even if a basic income was provided.

Myself included, I would stop trying to chase working for a big tech comapny and start my own given the safety net a basic income would provide.

[–]theoncomingnoob [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't think everyone has to, but I definitely think everyone should try to make a contribution to society. And I think that most people really do want to help society in some way, and so they should have the means of doing so. Sounds very idyllic, I know.

[–]phweefwee [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'd like to think that one day we can be more similar to the people in Star Trek: no one really has to worry about money, and they do whatever they want to fulfill themselves.

I think it's certainly possible to achieve, but the issue still remains of our "worth" in a society. We keep having these arguments about what someone is actually worth in their community--the biggest one right now has to do with college majors and the "but what will you do with that degree" phenomenon. We have to establish a precedent for having a fulfilling life void of arbitrary worth. Once we've accomplished that, I have no doubts that we can thrive as a species.

[–]AttackOfTheThumbs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It feels like some people don't get it. If you don't need to struggle to survive, you suddenly have a lot of opportunities. Getting better education, solving problems that no one saw before. Great things come from time.

[–]AttackOfTheThumbs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Think about how hard parasites currently work to continue being one.

If they don't have to put in that effort, they might actually do something useful with their life.

[–]nocturnalvisitor 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

He didn't mention those people who kick/throw/bounce a ball to each other for bit, and the importance they have on society in general compared to how much the masses allow them to be paid the most.

[–]Marsto 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's classed as entertainment and sport though, hardly meaningless even if you apparently hate it.

Why are actors paid a tonne if all they do is 'pretend to be someone else for a bit'?

Or tennis players if all they do is 'smack a tiny ball with rackets back and forth for a bit'?

Or Gladiators if all they did was 'kill each other meaninglessly whilst spectators cheered for their favourite... for a bit'?

You can argue this for anything entertainment or sport based, but without them (whichever ones you actually like) you'd not be as happy and would definitely be more bored. These people earn massive amounts because it's what people regularly pay so much money for.

People always bring up the soldiers arguement and how they are paid less, but they aren't paid through people's disposable income attending matches or buying merchandise like sports stars are.

Target your hate at meaningless businesses that aim to leech as much money from people as possible, like payday loan companies - not those who provide entertainment.

[–]ellomaethen -3ポイント-2ポイント  (14子コメント)

Please everyone keep in mind the channel that this was broadcasted on: RT is a russian, government-funded tv-station. As much as a lot of you might sympathize with this man's believes, it is still mostly russian propaganda.

[–]ColoniseMars 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

It would apply to russia too.

Unless you think russia in a well oiled perfectly calibrated economic machine.

[–]ellomaethen 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Compare the distribution of the workforce: http://www.statista.com/statistics/271373/distribution-of-the-workforce-across-economic-sectors-in-russia/

http://www.statista.com/statistics/270072/distribution-of-the-workforce-across-economic-sectors-in-the-united-states/

It makes it even more obvious that they are trying to discredit western economy. BTW IMO the social/psychological problem is not that the jobs these people do are pointless. The feedback loop is just probably broken. In the grand scheme he might be right but well.. what are you going to do?

[–]ColoniseMars [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

The feedback loop is just probably broken.

The feedbackloop that is supposed to do what exactly?

Also, how is your data somehow proving that RT are evil propaganda people hell bend on destroying the US economy? The data clearly shows the USA has a much higher percentage service jobs than russia, so it would make sense for america to have more useless jobs. Its easier to have a useless service job than a useless farming or factory job.

[–]ellomaethen [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

when the feedback loop in a company is broken, the worker doesn't know that his work was effective. eg. your boss told you to write a report. That seemed pointless in your eyes. The boss uses the report in a sales pitch and it contributes to a successful sale. If your boss tells you that your report helped, you got positive feedback and no longer think making that report was pointless. Now if he doesn't tell you, the feedback loop is broken und you think you did pointless work.

Prof. Graeber keeps mentioning that these jobs exist because there are not enough jobs in the farming and industry sector. Those sectors are bigger in Russia and therefore the problem is not as big there. You got the connection they wanted you to make: service sector = more useless jobs. But you are building your whole opinion on this one prof who is obviously a communist. (he even said to just give erverybody money - no matter what)

[–]ColoniseMars [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

But you are building your whole opinion on this one prof who is obviously a communist. (he even said to just give erverybody money - no matter what)

Two things. One, universal basic income would not be communist, since communism doesn't have money.

Two, shitty insult, since I am myself a communist.

But I somewhat disagree with your view. The jobs this man talks about are not the ones where people feel unappreciated for their efforts, its the ones where they sit on facebook 95% of the time until its 5pm, trying to cover up the fact that they actually don't have anything to do. But they can't quit, because they need the money to pay the bills.

Other than that, of course a feedback loop of criticism or praise is important in any organisation, and in many cases it is severely lacking.

[–]ellomaethen [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

communist wasn't meant as insult (why the fuck would it be... I'm not american by the way so that may be why...) but funny you should think that.

It just further suggests that the whole video might try to push a certain agenda.

[–]ColoniseMars [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yea most of the time when people say "he is a communist" on reddit its an insult due to the high american population here.

RT pushing for communism would actually be a godsend for me and most russians IMO. Putin really turned russia into a proper oligarchical capitalist nation. They have hosted marxists like Richard Wolff before, but it seems they are just banking on a counter-movement image to spread their other propaganda about russia. Not that they are very good at it, like that time with the ukraine flight disaster. Their attempts were transparent as fuck.

[–]Tractor_Pete 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's true of course, and sometimes it's very obvious what the motivations are (e.g. RT's coverage (or lack thereof) of the Ukraine and Syrian conflicts) but what's the sinister agenda here? I don't see it - it most likely applies to Russia as well.

[–]ellomaethen 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's criticizing (american) capitalism, well not really, but he talks about how the western system is flawed. (It might be of course, but that's not the point).

[–]FuzzBeast 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

...and David Graeber is a respected anthropologist, professor, and author, who they are asking questions of. I fail to see how RT being the source really has all that much to do with what the man is saying.

[–]ellomaethen [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't know where you got the "respected" from but oh well, he works at a respected university so... the guy is an anarchist. he writes in his book that bureaucracy is the reason why we don't already have teleportation.

And for why the source matters: did you hear him talk all that much about bureaucracy? When even his book has the title? No? Maybe that's because the interviewer can steer the conversation if he wants to. The source ALWAYS matters.

[–]k3nnyd [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Sure, but it's not like RT broadcasters are all in some building in Moscow being controlled and told what to do. Any RT show I've watched is filmed in the States featuring people who don't know a lick of Russian. I don't exactly think Russia can pressure their "reporters" or talk show hosts like they could if they actually broadcasted from Russia.

[–]Kamiru_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah and CNN is a propaganda network for the US. I myself like to listen to opposing viewpoints, not taking in account if it's coming from the "right" or "wrong" side, and use it to broaden my own knowledge and opinions. Ancient greek philosophers had some word for this but I can't seem to find it right now.

Also this is obviously not a news piece (where I might have agreed with your "be cautious, RT is biased" comment), but an opinion one.

[–]ibreakbathtubs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah looks like you may be right.

Former KGB officer turned political refugee, Konstantin Preobrazhensky, criticized RT as "a part of the Russian industry of misinformation and manipulation"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)#Criticism

[–]TheReviewsDude [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm a YouTuber. So is my job pointless?

[–]Rilybear [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No one can answer that question except for you. Do you classify what you do as pointless?

[–]NormieBTFO -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

As always if this system was in place he would not want to have to do the dirty jobs, nobody would. They would be forced by those in control who end up getting greedy and taking more money. It is almost as if this system was tried multiple times before..

[–]ingwe [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

You would be surprised how fulfilling a "dirty" job can be. My father is a garbage person and I don't think I've ever seen him so happy in a job and he has nearly 20 weeks of vacation built up because he enjoys his job so much. I did tree planting which is a grueling task with mosquitoes, relentless heat or never ending rain, and blisters. At the end of the day I was happy and it broke a cycle of depression I was in from years of call center and retail work where I felt that I didn't really do anything of value.

[–]NormieBTFO [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Well yes, it can be rewarding but you will still need to force people do it, which creates communism, which becomes a dictatorship.

[–]Kamiru_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, at the moment we are forcing people (just in a less direct way) to work, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery

There could be many solutions to this, the best one being people who /enjoy/ doing these "dirty jobs" doing them, it could also be some random process (like jury duty), where you need to one of these dirty jobs for a certain amount of time, or something like if you turn X years old you need to do some dirty job for X amount of time. I'm just throwing out some idea, but there definitely does not have to be a dictatorship.

[–]arjun101 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Or, we work together to create robots to do all the dirty jobs and/or split them up as chores.