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People really need to understand how scouting works (self.reddevils)

RoodonkeyMartial が 投稿

Been thinking about this for a while in regards to us scouting Renato Sanches.

Tbf, I thought we'd end up signing him as well, but the amount of times we saw posts like ''Man Utd present at Benfica game'' (mostly from that Hagen guy) was just idiotic. And the same goes for the comments we see now that he's signed for Bayern, like ''How can we scout him for so many games and not sign him up?''

Having a scout at a Benfica game is just not newsworthy at all. It means nothing. Of course we're gonna have a scout there, that's how it works for crying out loud. It doesn't mean we're on the verge of signing anyone, it's just common sense.

If we have a scout based in Portugal (we do btw, Toninho Cruz), which games is he going to be at? Benfica are having a historically good season. Of course he's going to be present every single weekend, that's his job. That doesn't even mean he's scouting anyone in particular, although Sanches would have obviously been on the radar. Point is, since we have a scout in Portugal, he's going to be at practically every Benfica game, it's not a big deal like Hagen made it out to be. The same goes for having scouts in any other country, Portugal just happens too have fewer relevant teams, and therefore games, to go see.

So everyone who's now saying that this means we must have screwed up on the transfer have no idea what they're talking about. All we did was look at a promising player.

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[–]anterax 26ポイント27ポイント  (12子コメント)

Thanks, but I think you're wasting your time. There are way too many people here who want to make mountains out of molehills and the mods here just can/will not deal with this at the moment.

Anybody who has followed football/soccer - and a big club who everybody gets linked to - for 2-3 years can come to the conclusions that you have stated, except for people in this sub apparently

[–]Stilkonwheels 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Its not so much about the scouting. People are pissed off cause they can't come to terms that he chose Bayern over us, we were definitely in for him (if hes good enough for Bayern he is good enough for us).

Lets face it, we're not an elite club anymore, players would choose bayern, madrid or barca over us in a heartbeat.

[–]mufcirclejerk 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

we were definitely in for him

Citation needed.

[–]anterax 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Seconded. I don't see anything about there being a bid for him. We could've scouted him 23 times or whatever and decided on the 24th that he's not a good fit. The point is that we're just speculating without knowing any facts

[–]mufcirclejerk 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The fact that we scouted him for so long without making a bid is probably quite telling.

[–]mink_manBellion 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

OP says people who say we screwed up the transfer don't have a clue what they're on about yet the guy who says we were just looking at him knows what he's on about?

Where did OP get this information that we never tried to sign him?

[–]anterax -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please read the post again? We never did try to sign him. That's a fact. There was no official bid. But anyway, that's NOT what the OP is on about

[–]nikolai426Memphis 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Hagen himself is really reliable in reporting Portuguese football, so he was shocked that it was the 24th consecutive we scouted a Benfica game, which really did start when Renato Sanches was starting to come to life in Benfica's main team... Don't think it's too much of a mole even if it's not certain we were looking at him

[–]RoodonkeyMartial[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm sure we must have been looking at him, that goes without saying. My point is more that scouting Benfica matches is hardly newsworthy, and basing opinions on how often we've had a scout there is a bit silly.

[–]mink_manBellion 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Eh you've obviously missed the numerous reports from reputable sources saying we were close to signing him. There's no smoke without fire.

You state as fact the we were only looking at him. How do you know this? You know as much as the people saying we screwed up the transfer, and considering the reports of us being close to agreement I'd side more on the fact that he rejected us the minute bayern came in.

[–]danskzwag 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's utd there's nearly always smoke without fire

[–]RoodonkeyMartial[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course I've seen the reports. I'm not saying anything about those. I'm saying that ''we've been scouting him for so long, so we've really screwed up on this'' is a ridiculous argument. Scouting a player does not equal trying to buy him.

If the argument had been ''according to so and so, we bid the same as Bayern, we took too long to get it done'', that's fine by me. But like I said, my issue started way back when it became newsworthy that we had a scout at Benfica games. Of course we're gonna have a scout there.

And since we did, I think it's a fair assumption we were looking at him. Not only him though, but a number of players. I think we were interested in him the most though, and I agree we had no chance as soon as Bayern came for him.

[–]anterax 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does this make Hagen less reliable then? I don't see why we can't just wait for an official bid from the club rather than try to get the news out as quickly as possible without bothering to confirm facts. The more guesses people like Hagen make, the greater the chance of him being right. That doesn't mean that he's 'reliable', just better at making guesses...

[–]thesmokethatthundersBeckham 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Solid post but there will just be too much backlash for the next week over a player that the outraged didn't even want until another team signed him for the exorbitant amount of money that they didn't want us to spend. Simplest answer probably is though that Sanches wanted to go to Bayern, and that's fine.

[–]Prof_DumbbelldoreRuud 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

'we let another one slip'

This phrase pisses me off so much

[–]mink_manBellion 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're basically saying we didn't try to sign him because we didn't sign him.

You say people have no idea what they're on about when they say we screwed the transfer yet you have no idea that we DIDN'T screw up the transfer. Yet this post is upvoted.

Yet another "club never wanted him anyways" post.

[–]Dry_OasisKeane 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

There was a lot more than just reports of scouting, a lot of reports saying a deal was done, with details about the fee and everything.

[–]RoodonkeyMartial[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't have any problem with the other reports. I'm saying that the argument ''we've scouted him so many times, how did we fail to get him?'' is ridiculous, since scouting a player doesn't mean we're trying to sign him at all.

[–]wakey87433Mata 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Media reports mean very little though. There is so much false information either from outlets jumping to conclusions just so they can be first or because clubs/agents leak false information for their own benefit.

[–]Dry_OasisKeane 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know, my point was there was more than just reports of scouting, and that's why a lot of people thought Sanches to United was a done deal.

[–]jjjkongSmalling 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

i think the funnier part is that ppl go apeshit on the board for failing their transfers all the time, when in reality they have literally no idea what is actually going on behind the scenes. It is a fucking business, and professional football, not FIFA 2016, don't act like you know anything about running a football club, don't even border talking about transfers, cause it involves a lot of tactical and business related stuff that you simply won't ever be able to understand.

They are paid millions to do their job, not you.

[–]19Dan81Tempo 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's pretty obvious that Utd were very interested and very serious about Renato. If you take the mantle: "Man Utd are always interested in the best players" Renato Sanchez definitely looks to be in that category - especially at 18-years old - that puts him on our radar and with money not an issue you'd have to say that him signing for Bayern is a failure.

18-years-old, strong, direct, amazing technical ability available for £28m plus double that in add-ons is a doable economical deal. I guarantee if we, like Bayern, had made an announcement about the future direction of the club we would have had a chance to get him.

There is no direction to the club. There's no plan, there's nothing to buy into. The only thing we know is that LVG has 1-year left on his contract and nothing will happen after that.

[–]TheReplacerLegends 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I personal believe we had scouts there for different players. But the news media just ran with the whole Sanches angle. So we bought into the hype. But by the end of the day, its really the clubs decision.

[–]RoodonkeyMartial[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree. It's never just one single player. There are a lot of players in that Benfica side that we'll have looked at, as well as players for the opponents they were facing. However, Sanches was probably the player we were the most interested in signing.

[–]nikolai426Memphis 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry guys if it seemed annoying (I posted the Hagen tweets), and we were still scouting like last week I believe, and it was the 24th consecutive Benfica match we were scouting so that was out of the ordinary. We were really interested I really do believe, but then again I get what you're saying as in it's really obscure

[–]LiamRS24 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Here's the problem with your theory though; Bayern Munich just signed him which means they think he is good enough to play for them. At this moment in time, Bayern are a better footballing side than we are. If he's good enough to play for Bayern and we scouted him more than 20+ times, why haven't we signed him? Maybe some will say we need more experienced players than him or we have similar players in that position but if you get the opportunity to sign a potentially world class player that's probably an upgrade on what you have and you have any ambition as a football club, then you should be doing all you can to sign them. It's an opportunity missed in my opinion.

[–]MrD3athRyan Fucking Giggs 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

But that's not how it works though. A player could be very good for club A, average for club B, bad for club C. Not that I'm saying Sanches wouldn't fit in at United, but it might be a possibility.

[–]RoodonkeyMartial[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not making any comment on whether we should have been in for him at all though. I think he's a great talent. My problem is people equal scouting him to going for him, and then complain when we don't get a deal done. There's probably hundreds of players we're scouting, that doesn't mean we're trying to sign them.

Do I think we should have tried to sign him? Possibly, but we wouldn't have gotten it done if Bayern were in for him anyway.

[–]wakey87433Mata 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The thing is just because Bayern felt he was ready for the German League doesn't mean that we would think he was ready for the English league. After all the leagues are different is style and it's easier for Bayern to blood players with how easy the league is compared to ours. That can have a have a major impact after all especially at the kind of fees.

[–]mufctezSchweinsteiger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We ain't got time for logic round these parts - be on your way Mr. Scientist!!!

[–]fakeplasticairbag -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

We were very obviously interested in Renato Sanches.

Clowns like this come out every time we fail to sign a player pretending we were never interested anyway.

If you went of what these people think we're basically never actually interested in anyone except to players we actually sign.